Kerry to endorse Webb??

I was just reading that dKos diary about the blogger who met with JK in L.A., and somebody said there was a rumor that Kerry was going to endorse Webb.

I looked around, and found this. Not exactly confirmation, but from sources from "Capital Hill":

http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2006/06/the_knockout_pu.html



Meanwhile, the WP endorsed Miller.

Look, I'm not mad or anything if JK endorses Webb. And I think the Webbies have a point that Webb has more of a "persona" against Allen, but the guy is basically a Republican, hotheaded, and a bit of an amateur. If the unions are so adamant against Miller, however, then I don't see how Miller can win the primary (at least that's how it went in last year's lt. gov. primary).

Regardless of what Kerry does, I will be voting for Harris Miller in the primary, because I think he is the better candidate. But the whole experience has been quite unsettling. And, of course, this thing is a rumor at this point. (And may I add, Webb MUST have shook his hand at that meeting if Kerry is going to endorse him).

Thoughts/info from Virginians or non-Virginians alike?

(I had been suspecting that something like that was in the works since the WaPo reported their private meeting)Kerry has been saying that they needed vets in the House and the Senate, and I was expecting that (and wondering who was the blocking factor between Webb and Kerry).

This said, this is certainly another sign of the extraordinary character of Kerry. Endorsing somebody who has not been doing the same thing for him in 04 and who has basically agreed with his slanderers is not a sign of the ordinary.

Kudos for Kerry for that.

As for Miller/Webb, I dont know enough on Miller to have an informed opinion.

From the comment section:

Okay. I feel a whole lot better now. If the flyer was the knockout punch, I knew we were in trouble. John Kerry's endorsement is definitely big news. Very interesting. I wonder what MH in PA on Daily Kos will have to say about this one?

Posted by: DemTilDeath | June 02, 2006 at 12:36 AM

HA! We were laughing at that guy before on RK. There are a few people who are going to be pretty sullen about this.

Posted by: phriendlyjaime | June 02, 2006 at 12:47 AM

You know, I didn't like what Webb wrote, but it was really his arrogant, nasty supporters that turned me off the most. THIS only confirms it.

Mass -- you probably wouldn't like Miller that much either; but this is, after all, Virginia.

I was shocked at the trash they posted both here and on Dkos. It takes more than a little chutzpah to claim that Miller is Republican-lite when you're behind Webb.

If Webb loses the primary, great.

If Webb wins the primary and loses the Senate seat, let's see what they have to say then.

If Webb wins both and goes to the Senate, then we - and they - will watch him vote for the next war resolution, and vote against people who protest against war, and vote in any other way he can to protect the Carlton Sherwoods of the world and diminish the right to dissent. Of course, these a-holes don't care. Even as the parallels play out, they say "Vietnam doesn't matter."

I can't imagine Kerry endorsing Webb before the primary. I suspect the full sentence was, "Kerry will endorse Webb *IF* Webb wins the primary." Which I would fully expect him to do.

However if I am wrong, it's no big deal to me - unlike those folks, I know all too well that this isn't about me.

But, thanks for revealing their true natures here. As if I didn't already know, lol!

The fact that they went back over to their blog to talk on and on about us says something.

Yeah, I agree this is only a rumor until proven otherwise. An endorsement after the primary makes much better sense. The WP endorsement of Miller is telling, that they understand you need somebody who is not an amateur and knows how the game is played. I just finished reading through their comments; these people are out of control and not very likeable.

There was some Kerry dissing, too, which I didn't appreciate.

Could it be he'll endorse him after the primary, if he wins?

I could never be as forgiving as Kerry obviously is.

I agree with you that it would be smarter for him to wait and endorse the winner of the primary. I just sifted through the comments, and there is a pro-Miller poster who apparently was BANNED from RaisingKaine.com for having opinions not to the liking of the owner of the site. Anyway, he has some good points that not ALL unions are for Webb, because Webb worked in the Reagan administration, the same administration that did nasty things to unions. It isn't that simple. Admittedly, we have two flawed candidates, but I feel Miller is the best, and is very well spoken. The Webb supporters are coming across like Deaniacs in Iowa. I really, really, really, really hope that Kerry waits. It's so late now, he may as well wait the 13 days. This could be the equivalent of Gore endorsing Dean in '04; not a good idea. But if he does it'll just be one of those "agree to disagree" moments that I sometimes have with the Senator. I mean one will never agree with someone 100% all the time.

that the two of them talked privately and worked out the problem, whatever it was.

that meeting. Fences were mended, especially since Webb needs Kerry now more than ever. But that doesn't necessarily mean a primary endorsement.

The thing is that when I first heard about Webb, it was for me all about Kerry. If that was the ONLY problem with Webb that I had, then perhaps a Kerry endorsement would sway me to vote for Webb. But the "one should question Kerry's loyalty" crap was just the tip of the iceberg for this guy. And I sincerely believe that Miller is a good man who has rightly gone on the attack against a Democratic pretender.

Maybe I'm going to hold onto the hope that this rumor is false for a little bit longer. A Kerry endorsement will have an explanation, which I will read to find out why he did it.

I think it is pure speculation added by that they met, but that was I believe almost 2 weeks ago, not last Friday, can't remember. As you if it turns out to be true(still a rumor for now), I will have to disagree also, and my vote will go to Miller on the 13th.

RUMOR: Someone on the Hill told me a Kerry staffer said about the Webb endorsement "It's Kerry reaching out to the swiftboaters"

Posted by: | June 02, 2006 at 12:47 PM


Now I can understand THAT. I was toggling between this forum and the Virginia website, and something clicked when I read this from Whometense's thread on the SBVT:

Thanksfully, over months and years the Swifties' most serious charges of faked wounds and bogus medals have proven to be fictitious; a political dirty trick. Yet thanks in large part to the press' initial timidity during those dog days of summer 2004, the Swifties remain lurking today, waiting for the next opportunity to pounce. For instance, Swifty ring leader and chronic fabricator John O'Neill recently sent out a nationwide fund-raising letter on behalf of a Vermont Republican running for the U.S. Senate. Just this week the Associated Press, profiling James Webb and his effort to unseat Virginia Republican Sen. George Allen, noted the issue of military service could become a campaign issue. (Webb was a decorated Marine; Allen never served.) The AP reported, "A top Allen adviser, Christopher J. LaCivita, was the mastermind behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of Vietnam veterans who made unsubstantiated allegations challenging Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's record of wartime heroism."

Okay, now this is making more sense.

It's not as if Miller is swifboating Webb - in fact at this point this still says "could".

It would make complete sense if when Kerry met with him, he explained the Patriot Project and spoke of it trying to protect him. But I hope he means after the primary.

if it means for AFTER the primary assmuming Webb will win, then i can understand that. but fuck no for the primary. can Virginia Voters let Kerry's office know their opinion on this ?

state since I'm not a constituent. Plus, this thing is only a rumor at this point. If anybody from Mass. knows anything about this, or was planning on calling his office for something else, I would like to know.

Because the more I think about this, the worse it gets.

An Outrageous Lie


USA Today published an op-ed by former Navy Secretary James Webb which contains the viscious accusation that in his 1971 Senate Foreign Relations Committee testimony John Kerry "testified that fellow veterans had routinely 'raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan.' "

I'm not sure if I'm more outraged that Webb would repeat this easily falsifiable piece of slander against a highly decorated combat veteran, or that USA Today would publish it without making even a routine effort to fact check such an inflammatory statement.

I'm pretty damned outraged with both, though, and dashed off a letter to the offending journal. Odds are this is the only place you'll ever see it, but here's what I wrote, with a little extra highlighting:

To the Editor, USA Today

Former Navy Secretary James Webb suggests that Senator John Kerry owes Vietnam Veterans "a full and complete apology" for accusations that Mr. Webb claims Senator Kerry made against veterans in his 1971 Senate Foreign Relations Committee testimony.

In fact, it is James Webb who owes the apology to Senator Kerry for promulgating the lie that Kerry's testimony contained any such accusations. As anyone who bothers to review the testimony and familiarize themselves with the facts will quickly learn, Sen. Kerry did not accuse anyone of anything, but in fact cited the testimony of veterans who admitted to performing the acts described, expressing not condemnation, but sympathy for honorable men who found themselves in tragic circumstances.

As a Vietnam veteran myself, I have paid close attention to not only the statements, but the actions of those who claim to speak for or act on behalf of us. John Kerry has been exemplary on both counts for over thirty years, and Mr. Webb serves every veteran poorly by spreading defamatory misstatements about a man who served his country heroically and has served the interests of all veterans faithfully.





// posted by Shaun @ 10:06 AM

http://upper-left.blogspot.com/2004_02_15_upper-left_archive.html

Thank you, Shaun, for reminding me of WHY I could never cast my primary vote for Webb, and WHY I hope to God this stupid rumor is FALSE!!!

That is a fantastic letter.

Kerry understands the importance of the Dems winning as many seats as possible this fall. Whatever differences there have been between Webb and Kerry, I'm sure that JK is willing to push those aside in the interest of taking back Congress. I wouldn't vote for a guy like Webb, after what I've learned about him. Well, maybe I would if it was a choice between him and Allen. I'm spoiled up here in MA, having a wealth of wonderful liberal politicians to choose from. The folks in VA aren't nearly as fortunate in that department.

If Webb wins, he will be just one Senator out of 100. But if the Dems take back the Senate, they will control the agenda. And that is the overarching goal.

But Webb seems to be running on "most electable", but his total unprofessionalism shows otherwise. I would agree with you that Kerry should support him in the General, but not the Primary. Oh well, it doesn't matter that much I suppose in the scheme of things.

I may be thinking of Raising Kaine and I apologize for not noticing this sooner. I don't know if it's true or not but to be frank since unlike Pennsylvania where Bob Casey had a lock on the nomination, this race is totally different than that. I can see Kerry staying netural in the primary but backing the nominee in the election, well duh because he's a Democrat first. You know I am technically still a member of the UFCW and while I haven't checked my mail since i heard about Miller being hated by the unions, I haven't got anything about "stopping him at all costs" or anything like that. For the record while I probably would have voted for Bryne in last year's Lt Governor primary, Peterson would have made the better candidate. Leslie was lucky to run against Bill Bolling. The republicans made a mistake in my opinion by not nominating Sean Caunnington who I believe is the Prince William county executive, a social conservative but not a fanatic on tax issues. Sure Bolling won but he'll became their party's nominee for governor I bet in 2009 and I think we could win that one.

The rumor is, of course, suspect. But they're spreading this rumor everywhere (I read it first on dKos). It's not a disaster for JK (and who knows, maybe it's true), but it makes me mad that they're spreading unconfirmed rumors like it's true.

I voted for Chap Peterson last year, because I thought he had a special something that could win in the General. He wasn't as liberal as Leslie Byrne, but something about her rubbed me the wrong way. It was a tough vote for me because Chap wasn't really pro-choice, an issue very important to me, but I figured that would innoculate him from some of the right wing bashing.

So, in that sense, I am a pragmatic voter, and don't always vote for the most liberal candidate, but the best "full package". Miller has a better well rounded worldview than Webb.

before Davis beat her in 94. If Peterson had ran against Bolling there's no doubt in my mind that he would won, if he ran against Caunnington than you got a race closer than the Deeds-Bob McConnell race. Ok, not really but I thikn it would have been close. Speaking of Deeds did I ever tell you and the other Virginians that he's the cousin of my cousin's husband. I haven't voted in a primary yet so I don't really how I vote per say yet.

But you're voting in this primary, right? And voting for Miller?

I can't believe it's in 11 days. I got my grandma to back Miller when I was at her place on Wednesday. Would be trying to talk my grandpa in to it too but he's been in the hospital and isn't likely to be out until afterwards. It was pretty interesting to find out though. My dad's side of the family always has parties, I guess it's because we're Irish and German on that side and there was one this fall for another one of my cousins who turned 18 and my cousin's husband was telling everyone to vote for Deeds because he's his cousin. He would have voted for Deeds if he wasn't his cousin though I've seen him make some critical remarks of hte administration. The only Republican on that side of the family is my aunt's ex who is still family.

Read all about it here: http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-va--kerry-webb0602jun02,0,5514401.story?coll=dp-headlines-virginia

weak though to be honest I am glad in a way but disappinted in another. Glad becaues it shows that Kerry don't carry an axe to grind but disappointed because I seriously don't thikn Webb is a ogod candidate. Most of Miller's endorsements have come from instate though which is a good thing.

for getting endorsed by people he's fucked in the past hasn't he?

I think it's pretty interseting that he's had 5-6 US senators endorse him but hte bulk of the state Democratic establishment prefers Miller.

I know that he got endorsed by a bunch of ex-Robb staffers. He can't endorse anyone because he's on some stupid commission but its very likely he gave them the go ahead. I could be wrong, but it stands to reason.

What has been interesting though exemping hte Robb staffers, Leslie Bryne, Chap Petersen, Steve Jarding, and Mudcat Saunders, most of Webb's endorsers have been form out of state. Nearly all of Miller's endorsements I've seen have come from Virginians which I think is a positive.

I hope Miller wins. Are there any polls?

Which is why all these endorsements shock me. I can understand why the party establishment began backing Bob Casey in a heartbeat because of his political pedigree and what have you. Speaking of Webb though I like making "Chuck Norris" jokes with Webb. Hey, if you talk to WEL on AIM tell her I said hi and that I havent been on since I am on the sucky computer that loses its AIM connectio.

I agree with everything you're saying, JohnKleeb.

I will still be voting for Miller in the primary. But does that mean I am hurting JK? If Miller wins, then will people snark about him?

This sucks. At least it'll be all over soon.

Just went to Miller's website. I know the International Brotherhood of Electric Workers don't speak for all of Virginians in labor unions but I found it interesting that they're backing Miller. I don't think we're wrong for not backing Kerry's horse of choice in this race. I too can't wait for it to be over.

I wonder if Kerry was pressured into endorsing him. :scared: :shrug:

The strong on defense Democrat theme. And I guess I have to say, if Kerry thinks Webb can be an ally on getting out of Iraq, I would bet nothing else would matter. I actually can't disagree with that, although I think Webb would be a royal pain in a lot of other ways. Then again, Harold Ford has the potential of being a pain in a lot of areas too! :)

the situation in my hometown honestly since he has been talking about labor issues.

on Democratic Daily last weekend. He used the past tense, but . . . FedupinBushCountry had said in her comment that she was supporting Harris Miller. So he KNEW, and wrote this to us:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3127#comment-39535



He's saying . . . it's OKAY. But if Webb wins the primary, then he would appreciate if we Virginians get behind him. I'm willing to do that.

this primary except here. I feel like an idiot now. For some reason those reassuring words from Kerry I just posted aren't reassuring if you go to Kos or DU and now this Virginia website, and research my name, and hear me going against Webb over and over again. And then the MAIN person who I advocate for turns around and ENDORSES him. So it's best to just disappear, because I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that STUPID Hackett live blog where I spent HOURS defending Kerry against Webb's words. All for nothing. All that typing and quick thinking all for nothing.

Okay, signing off for the night. It'll all be okay once this damned primary is over. Sorry for the negativity, but man, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me tonight.

And him needing more allies on getting out of the war. That's all you have to say, and that you can understand the Senator putting the troops first, but you are worried we're going to end up giving up more than we're getting, in the long run. Or something like that. And it doesn't mean you have to stop supporting Miller either, I wouldn't if I were in your shoes. I think he's way wrong on Webb, but whatcha gonna do. Nobody's perfect.

I have to think of why Kerry did this. I'm thinking the main reason is to get more support from Vets on his plan for Iraq. That is the only reasonable explanation that I can give for now.

I'm disappointed, but we will never know what was said between the two of them. All I can say is Kerry is a much bigger person then I could be. I hope Webb stands up for Kerry when needed, because if he doesn't I will be the first to complain all over the blogosphere.

I will still be voting for Miller. Sorry JK, but I think Miller is best for the job of a Senator.

My complaints about Webb were (and are) based on my own feelings about what he said and did in 2004. That is what I was blogging about, and I think that's what you were blogging about too.

So Kerry has shown that he can go beyond that. To me that just shows what a big man he is. But it doesn't change my own opinion about the stuff Webb wrote in 2004, or how he is generally on Vietnam. I still don't like him at all.

The problem I have with JK's endorsement is that it is pre-primary, and a lot of locals seem to be backing Miller. THAT is the reason I am disappointed in it. I'm guessing he was leaned on hard by the party powers that be though.

So, nobody's perfect. I hope some day to understand why JK would make this endorsement now, but as an issue it's pretty far down my list.

Miller should be running on that many Virginians back him, I wish he wouldn't be so negative honestly, I know it's not easy but damn. I'll support the nominee though because anyone is better than that lying son of a Redskins football coach Allen.

pre-primary and I wish he didn't. The only think I can think of is that they think he has a better chance vs Allen. Weeks ago they were both losing badly to Allen. I doubt Schumer and the others could pressure Kerry to do anything he disagrees with.

I assume it has to be that he feels it's for the good of the party. He's clearly more forgiving than I would be.

I never said anything in any of the Webb/Miller discussions because, ever since Tammy Duckworth, I felt it coming.

I asked this questions repeatedly last year in this forum: What do you believe? Cuz it will be challeneged in politics. It always, always, always is.

And, obviously, I also had a "bad feeling" about this. After the Hackett live blog, I ceased to mention Kerry's and Webb's names together on the community blogs, because I didn't want anyone to get the impression that I spoke for Kerry. So, yeah . . . I had that feeling, too. But now that it's happened, I have a pretty hollow feeling inside. His endorsement may be consistent as far as electoral politics go (supporting vets), but it is NOT consistent when you take a look at his Dissent speech. When I watched that speech (4 times so far), and Droz's widow spoke and Kerry spoke about how going against the war led them to being called unpatriotic or a traitor, Webb's words flashed before me. He did EXACTLY that, and did so in 2004. Webb has no respect for those with dissenting opinions different from his own. And I betcha nothing was said in their meeting; they probably talked about Iraq mostly and protection from swiftboating (and for this, Webb said the stuff the SBVT said about Kerry's medals were lies).

But you know, as Kerry said recently about the Iraqis, democracy is about compromise. You have to give and take. This is an example of Kerry compromising for the greater good in his view. I have improved on this. At one point, I figured I would write "Mark Warner" in if Webb were the nominee. Now I have decided I will vote for Webb if he is the nominee. A Kerry endorsement will get me that far . . .

Still, I am in the unenviable position of voting against Kerry's wishes, while secretly hoping my candidate loses so that Kerry's endorsement will be viewed as a strength that will lead to more people supporting him in '08. Go figure that kind of mental gymnastic.

dup

In rare instances John Kerry gets to be both at the same time. Those are rare instances. He doesn't get to pick and choose who runs and he doesn't get to pick and choose what they say about him and the issues he cares about. John Kerry is not running in Virginia. He may not even go to Virginia because it might backfire on Webb and his endorsement of Webb may remain a fund-raising thing. (Though I ain't seen any Kerry-mail on him yet.)

Kerry has to play the hand that's dealt him, as all human beings do. He is trying his best to get a Democratic Congress that will help to fix so many problems in America that it's almost impossible to even name them all. George 'the moron' Allen is part of the problem. Webb, in a small way, might be part of the solution. I bet the politician in John Kerry knows that. The statesman knows it as well, you just don't get to make sweet speeches about that part, cuz it sort of sucks.

I bet that meeting on the endorsement was polite, cautious and formal. I bet both gentlemen were a bit uncomfrtable and understood that politics is about getting the best deal you can. Sometimes, the best of deals still suck. This might be one of those times.

There is also a John Kerry who believes utterly in diplomacy and in the idea that when diplomacy breaks down that bad things happen. He may have applied this lesson and it's implications for the 'greater good' to the situation in Virginia. He opted for the greater good, as he saw it. I accept that. I also know it's the politician speaking.

Saints make crappy politicians. They can't compromise and wind up as martyrs. Real politicians have to live in the real world where you sometimes have to deal with and endorse people who are not like you. That's what grown ups do. They are not saints, just realists.

It is on the recommended list.

Kerry Praises Webb; Miller Disses Kerry!
by lowkell
37 comments

Here is the link, for those interested in the Kerry part of this whole thing:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/3/82939/59328

The weird part is Armando, of all people, chimed in on the hatefest that the Webbies are engaging in. And even somebody who dislikes Miller thought the diary and comments went too far. This primary really is awful. I stand by my pledge to no longer post in community threads about it.

Here's one of his comments, for which he says he's just "kidding", but about which part?

I respectfully, but strongly, disagree (25+ / 0-)
Recommended by:dwellscho, cotterperson, iCaroline, bumblebums, Eternal Hope, elveta, peace voter, MadEye, nio, TXsharon, Stampy51, NYFM, barbwires, Noisy Democrat, historys mysteries, Sam I Am, ignorant bystander, Thaddaeus Toad, Joes Steven, phriendlyjaime, DisNoir36, kestrel9000, Heart Of Blue, imorroy, lightfoot

IMHO, the significane of John Kerry's endorsement here is huge, almost can't be overstated. There are several layers:

A genuine reconciliation between two old foes on the Vietnam War. Webb and Kerry are now putting it behind them.

A de facto alliance between Kerry and Webb against the Swift Boat Bastards for Lies and Smears

The ultimate Democratic Seal of Approval for Jim Webb, former Republican-turned-Democrat, by the 2004 Democratic Presidential nominee.

Realpolitik calculations for 2008 by John Kerry, vis-a-vis Hillary Clinton, etc.

My understanding is that Webb and Kerry had an intense, emotional meeting. I don't know all the details, but I hear they both ended up hugging and telling each other "I love you man." Ha, just kidding on the last comment, but hell, it COULD have happened! :)

Raising Kaine and Jim Webb for Senate!

by lowkell on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:34:39 AM PDT

< Parent | Reply to This |Recommend >

Is he saying he fabricated the entire meeting or just the hugging and loving part?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201670.html

This part I COMPLETELY agree with Kerry on:

Kerry announced the endorsement separately in an even stronger statement, mentioning that Webb's son will soon be deployed to Iraq.

"I want to know that after November the father of Marine Lance Corporal Jimmy Webb will be in the Senate thinking and leading on the best course for American troops," Kerry said. "I dare any Republican to question this man's courage, character, or moral authority on questions of war and peace."

And another interesting part:

Kerry and Webb are decorated Vietnam veterans, but they would hardly be described as close friends. Webb has said he refused for 20 years to shake hands with Kerry because of Kerry's outspoken criticism of the war after his return from Vietnam and his alignment with the antiwar movement.

But Webb went to Kerry's defense after an advocacy group called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth questioned Kerry's bravery and the legitimacy of the combat medals he received. Webb also said he voted for Kerry in 2004.

The two met privately for several hours three weeks ago and talked again Thursday night. Kerry acknowledged in his statement that "neither of us would deny that we've had our differences over the years."


They should have written SORT OF went to Kerry's defense on the SBVT, but whatever, I guess we're going to whitewash the truth now. Anyway, to us Virginians this endorsement makes sense even if we disagree. I thought Miller's response was good, and certainly didn't amount to "dissing Kerry".

that this endorsement is about foreign policy, and to put a stop that Dems are weak on this.

I would of loved to been a fly on the wall during that meeting.

I too, did not think Miller's response was dissing. I will not even look at the Dkos post.

I definitely see where Kerry stands on this, as does Cleland and Clark, we will see what happens on the 13th. I don't think Kerry has anything against Miller accept that he lacks the foreign policy.

Should be interesting, Beachmom.

If Miller were to diss Kerry he would have said something like "John Kerry should not wind surfing and care about what matters for Virginians" or somethin like that. He just said that Kerry is another of Webb's non Virginian endorsements and his endorsers better understand Virginia and to be honest it's true. Though I do see the logic behind the endorsement.

One of the things that had impressed me about Kerry's character was that he did not use the POW/MIA chairmanship to supoena Nixon and instead let him answer written questions. He's clearly not vindictive and he wasn't towards Webb either. I just hope that Webb now can see the type of person Kerry really is.

when they talked to him or something like that. You know there's a lot to hate about Richard M. Nixon but I have to admit he's a complex figure in history like most controversial people. There's the Nixon who was a NAACP member and the Nixon who developed the southern stragety. The Nixon who was a hawk on Vietnam and the Nixon who supported SALT. I too hope Webb sees the good in Kerry.

Even knowing that they had told underlings to destoy him - because they were taped on the Nixon tapes.

I remember reading that in Clinton' Rolling Stone interview 6 years ago. I am glad honestly that Kerry sees the value in forgiveness. Hopefully, some of those who trashed him will be able to realize that they were wrong about him.

This makes Miller look bad, I have to say:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/25/technology/techinvestor/hellweg/



This is the first piece of evidence I've seen from the Webbies that solidly does show Miller advocating for offshore outsourcing, a trend that does indeed trouble me.

You know give incentives to those who stay in the US. Good for business and good for the American working man. I guess this is why I remain skeptical of big business and an increasingly bigger proponent of small business. Hope Miller changes his mind on outsourcing though. I have no objection to Webb opposing it, he's right about it, I just don't like some of the things he's said about foreign policy and opponents of Vietnam war.

What to do what to do. :dilemma: I can see Kerry's stance on this too. He waited a while to put his backing for Webb out, was he weighing more than Iraq? hmmm

Well, 10 days more to fully research both. Isn't politics fun.

OT: Just received my copy of Winter Soldier in the mail, so I'm off to watch it, kleenex box in hand.

I thikn I'll still vote for Miller because I do trust my state senator's judgement and I like what he has said about some things. Wish Warner would have ran but ambition is everything.

Okay, I'm going to admit it. I'm waivering a little. I do trust Kerry's judgment and in going with what JohnKleeb said about Vietnam, it does seem that the Kerry endorsement has innoculated Webb from those criticisms. This was no doubt another "McCain/Kerry" moment, when someone who was previously angry with Kerry's anti-war activities realized there was more to him than that. And Kerry agreed to leave the past behind. I feel that that Vietnam bad riff between Webb and Kerry is OVER.

To be honest I didn't believe the bad stuff the Webbies said about Miller because their sources sucked -- always pro-Webb blogs. But suddenly I see a CNN link, and after clicking it, I realized at least on this point of outsourcing, Miller is not working in line with my values. I'm at home now with the kids, but do fear that the types of jobs I did before are now gone -- I was in accounting, and a ton of accounting is now being done in India. The H1B stuff didn't bother me because a) my husband came over here on one and b) there really was a shortage of knowledge workers in his field at the time. Now may be different.

Unlike you, JohnKleeb, nobody I know around here has endorsed Miller. The one person I know the most is Kerry, and it sounds like that meeting 3 weeks ago was a BIG DEAL, and in fact, they DID discuss past problems, and ironed them out. I agree that I wish we had more info on that meeting, and I also want to know what's going on in Kerry's head on this one!!

And, yeah, when I watched the debate, when Webb mentioned his son was going to Iraq in September my ears did indeed perk up. Allen might have a tough time navigating around that.

then I have go give props to both of them for being able to reconcil their differences. I am still wary of Webb for some of the things he's said but Miller's beliefs on outsourcing are worrysome and as I have said the nominee has my vote no matter who it is.

It would be big if Kerry had someone like Webb (possibly after early Nov - even if he loses) backing him on this.

But he'll need to cash them in for '08. Webb hates the Clintons, so this may work well for Kerry, getting a Webb endorsement. And as I have slowly realized -- all the stuff Webb said that we found horrid; well, he's ready to get past that. Kerry has gained another ally (unless Webb makes another turn and becomes a Republican again in '08, but hopefully that won't happen), and an unlikely one at that. For Kerry this is all good. It's just ME who is left with the tough decision to make. Out of two very flawed candidates, who do I vote for?

The news account quoted spoke of this being his biggest endorsement and it was clear it was considered significant by both the media and the Kos people.

Observation 1: Clark and Reid already endorsed him - NOT one peep that either of these two are the real leaders, from the Dkos peanut gallery.

Observation 2: This is a red state where we have been told by some on DU, that Kerry can't win and is disliked in. If this is true, why is this endorsement considered the most significant?

1. Campaign momentum. This just happened on Friday (the day after the WP endorsed Miller), so they're spinning it as the best thing ever. I have to admit -- I like reading the Kerry love, even if it's just cynical love.

2. The riff between Webb and Kerry (which many of us brought up on Kos, for which the Webbies had NO defense for other than get over it) is over. They've "kissed and made up" basically. This is a big deal for the Democratic primary, especially one with a lower voter turnout.

I was just reading another Virginia site (I am proud that my state has some very active sites), and there was some civil conversations going on between a Miller supporter and a Webb supporter about how they will unite once the primary is over, since things have gotten so ugly. The Miller supporters are more conciliatory I thought. But, giving credit to the Webbies, they do indeed have a lot of passion for their guy. They LOVE him. It's too bad Webb wasn't such a loose cannon. If he were smoother, his persona would indeed be a nice offset to Allen. Of course, I think JohnKleeb mentioned that Admiral Zumwalt (who was in Kerry's chain of command) ran for the Senate and lost. So military credentials, as we can sadly say was true for Kerry, don't necessarily translate into electoral victories. Still, if progressive Democrats are more upset about Miller's labor practices with the IT community, they might not be enthusiastic for Miller if he wins the primary.

I may have to conquer this primary problem with the Benjamin Franklin method, where you list pros and cons for each candidate and cross off pros to cons based on how you weight them (for example, the Kerry endorsement might be worth a couple of Webb cons). This thing has been emotional and full of twists and turns making it difficult to decide. Right wingers definitely are concerned about Webb giving Allen a hard time. Miller doesn't seem to even be on their radar screen. Not sure what that means.

And to expand on the military experience point. The era from the Mexican American War through the 1900 election featured the most high ranking military members running for presidents. Famous generals and military officers like Winfield Scott, Winfield Scott Hancock, John Fremont, etc didn't win their elections. Regarding Admiral Zumwalt though I thikn he lost because he ran against Harry Byrd Jr whose father was a segerationist democrat, Byrd ran as an indepedent that year I know. The Republicans as a result didn't put anyone against him. The Byrd family was probably the most recent political family we've had here in Virginia and in fact the street I go to community college is named after Byrd Jr. They're not related to Bob Byrd of West Virginia but they go a long ways back in our state to William Byrd I believe his name was who wrote a famous diary. According to my history professor he was a vile man.

for the attacks against him, but in any case, it was a very selfless act, and I applaud him for it. It takes a big person to set aside personal differences for the good of the country.
I could never do it, but I'm not surprised that Sen Kerry did.

Obviously, JK thinks Webb has a better chance against Allen, and as the Senator says, it's all about '06 right now.

I sincerely hope Webb apologized profusely for his ugly attacks on JK's service. I'm just glad I don't live in Virginia and have to choose.



When you forgive, you in no way change the past - but you sure do change the future.
Bernard Meltzer

Thats a good quote.

I had never heard of him before, but I remembered the quote and it's attributed to him.

I always liked this quote, not about forgiveness but its a goodie
"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
its overused but truer words were never said.

Hey, are you coming to Pittsburgh?

I need to get my license and my eye problems are delaying that, bah hereditary what am I gonna do about that. I should transfer by next fall. I may not be able to hangout though if I go soon though because it will be with my dad and we'd be busy while there with stuff other than looking at the university, Andy Warhol Museum for him, Primati's for both of us hey I am German-Irish-Slavic we love to eat, may your Heinz Field too, and may even get to see the house that his dad grew up in.

Primanti's. You had to do that, didn't you? I'm trying to diet.

:-)

Have you tried the Roethlisberger yet? The dudes on Steelers.com were saying it's great but the results aren't fun for your toilet.
snap I did it again. Sorry.

There are no diets on Sundays, and there's a Primanti's about two miles from my house. I'm not sure I'm ready for the Roethlisberger, though. Think I'll stick with my usual cheese steak and egg. Any sandwich with FF and coleslaw on it works, though.
Yummy. There's like a zillion calories in one of those bad boys.

:9

Regarding that quote yeah and there's another one I read by Santayana that was "With disllusionment ocmes wisdom." Found a lot of truth to that.

Back before talk radio was all RW.