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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 11:20 AM
Original message
Post at upperleft.com on 08.
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 11:21 AM by Mass
Shaun listed his preferences yesterday concerning 08, following a post by Ezra Klein on his blog.
http://upper-left.blogspot.com/

Sure, it's a ways off…

…and there's an important election in between, but a lot of us are thinking about '08 and some of us are closer to decisions than others. Ezra makes a good point...

As the primaries heat up and allegiances cement, the blogs really will be ripped apart by warring partisans, all the more so if folks refuse to divulge, but nevertheless exhibit, their preferences. My guess is that, going forward, transparency is the best policy, and we'd all be well-served by a willingness to calmly accept (and even respond to) speculation about the thought processes driving our commentary.

…and follows it up with his own '08 rankings. I'll bite. Using his list of potential candidates, here's how things look from the Upper Left, as of now...

Favorable:

1) John Kerry (surprised?)
2) Russ Feingold *
3) Wesley Clark *

Neutral:

4) John Edwards
5) Tom Daschle

Leaning Negative:

6) Hillary Clinton
7) Al Gore
8) Bill Richardson
9) Joe Biden
10) Tom Vilsack
11) Mark Warner
12) Evan Bayh
13) Chris Dodd

(* - I like these guys well enough, but I just can't bring myself to believe. Still, if they're around for the primary election debate season, they'll elevate the discourse and have a potentially salutary effect on the Party message.)

This far out, everything's subject to change, and I'm not endorsing anyone at this point, but if Kerry runs, someone's going to have to be pretty damn appealing to get me to turn my head.


I agree it is way too early, but if I have to choose now, here how it would stand :

Favorable:

1) John Kerry (I agree with Shaun totally).
2) Al Gore (assuming he runs)
3) Russ Feingold

Neutral: (Except Daschle and Clark, it is really neutral as I cant decide whether I like them or not. For Daschle and Clark, I like them, but not as much as the first tier).
4) Tom Daschle (+)
5) Wesley Clark (+)
6) Chris Dodd
7) Evan Bayh
8) Tom Vilsack (I cant say I am positive or negative, I dont know anything about him).
9) Mark Warner

Leaning Negative:
10) Joe Biden
11) Hillary Clinton
12) Bill Richardson
13) John Edwards

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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, I have a hard time coming up with even a second choice.
Perhaps,Gore,Feingold,Clark or Dodd. See! First choice is easy- Kerry.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Kerry first - then Clark and Edwards, then Feingold.
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 11:53 AM by blm
I trust them the most - I just don't believe Gore is going to run.

The rest I don't care for as far as their consistency goes, their capability in serious matters, and their depth of knowledge and experience.

However - If someone other than Kerry takes on the voting machine fraud issue and works to expose it, then that person will deserve support.
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Blaukraut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I agree with his list except Clark
This is more of a personal concern, though. While I like the general (I remember him from way back when he became SACEUR the same year we left Europe - '97), I feel a bit uneasy with the idea of a retired general as president. Military experience is a good thing, but too much of it, and not enough civilian experience in the public sector to balance this out might be problematic. I don't know... it's just IMHO.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree - you said better my reservations
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's mine
1) John Kerry (not surprised!)
2) Russ Feingold *
3) Al Gore
(I really respect Feingold, but think that he may be too reluctant to compromise. I picked Gore on the basis of his current views, in spite of not having ever been excited about him. These 2 are very close and if Gore would have backed K/F, it would be the other way.)

Neutral:

4) Tom Daschle
5) Chris Dodd - but lack a lot of info - he's been good on SFRC
6) Evan Bayh - His dad would be in the 3, too conservative, but experienced and a decent guy

Leaning Negative:
7) Mark Warner - Would really have better off running for Senator - could have made him unbeatable
8) Wes Clark - (Just vibes that he is to hiearchial and still has never run for anything)*
9) Tom Vilsack (Nothing compelling, No National security)

Negative:
10, tie) John Edwards - Slim resume, I wish Kerry wouldn't have picked him
10, tie) Hillary (I really don't want BILL)
12) Bill Richardson (he has Clinton era baggage and because of how helpful he was in 04
13) Joe Biden (When you plagerize in a speech to define yourself, put on smirky smiles as you stabs betters in the back, and waste 26 minutes of critical time on pontificating about, you are not a good person and a very unlikable candidate.

* Of all of these Wes Clark has the greatest potential to move - my concern was based on how he campaigns and whether he can change from last time.

I would still vote for (negative) but I won't be happy.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well gosh
Favorable
1. John Kerry (duh)
2. Russ Feingold (those 2 marriages, ouch)
3. Wes Clark (he rambles sometimes)
4. John Edwards (needs to spend time with Jimmy)

Neutral
5. Bill Richardson
6. Chris Dodd
7. Al Gore, not quite convinced he gets the media bias
8. Tom Vilsack, I'd give him a listen

Negative:
9. Tom Daschle, Mr. Milktoast
10. Mark Warner, he-hillary
11. Hillary - come on woman, head 'em up and move 'em out, just like rounding up pre-schoolers
12. Evan Bayh - yawn
13. Joe Biden - gas bag
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partisan Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Here's Mine:
Favorable:
JOHN KERRY





Al Gore
John Edwards
Mark Warner
Russ Feingold (He's been right on every issue. I just can't see him winning the general election. He reminds me of Howard Dean.

Neutral:
Bill Richardson
Evan Bayh

Negative:
Hillary (Let's face it; she aint her old man.)
Joe Biden (He has absolutely no chance.)

After Kerry wins the nomination I would like him to tap Warner, Bayh or Richardson as VP.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Hey partison, welcome to the DU JK group!
:hi:
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is fun! It's a smorgasbord of choices. (Yum?)
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 04:16 PM by ray of light
Favorable:

1. John Kerry

2. Clark/Edwards (tied)

3. David Sirota (hey no laughing here!!!)
(Edited to add...Who wouldn't vote for this? Even the married women would!)





4. Feingold (maybe as a VP candidate or if he picks a more 'main stream VP'.

I don't believe Gore will run. He'd be favorable if he does.


Neutral:

4. most people


Leaning Negative:

Joe Biden (He's moderate but he's inconsistent.)

Very Negative:

Hillary Clinton (I completely disagree with some (not all) of her votes. But after she met with Rupert Murdock of Fox network, I would not trust her to do what the people want. I'd like to know exactly what businesses have their hands in her campaign (what lobbyists) before I'd ever consider voting for her. Also, Fox smeared Kerry and caused his loss and to this day continue to beat up Democrats. For that reason alone, I think she's sold her soul to the devil. Then the devil will turn and flame her like they have all Democrats like Kerry/Edwards, Gore/ He who shalt not be named, and Clinton/Gore (Clinton/Rodham-Clinton)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Your list matches mine completely - hell, I'd take Sirota for
communications director.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tough, but here:
Favorable
1. John Kerry :bounce: :woohoo: :bounce:
2. Russ Feingold :think:
3. John Edwards :toast:

Neutral

4. Wes Clark :)

5. Al Gore :shrug:

6. Chris Dodd :dilemma:

7. Evan Bayh :boring:

8. Tom Vilsack :eyes:

Negative

9. Hillary x(

10. Tom Daschle :boring:

11. Joe Biden :thumbsdown:

12. Mark Warner :thumbsdown:

13. Bill Richardson :tinfoilhat:
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh God I love your emoticon descriptions
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 05:32 PM by WildEyedLiberal
Here are mine, in ProSense's mold:

Positive:

John Kerry :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I really have no runners-up. There's no one else I would consider against JK for even one nanosecond. In the event he didn't run:

Wes Clark :patriot:

Russ Feingold B-)

Al Gore :)

Neutral:

John Edwards :shrug:

Chris Dodd :boring:

Tom Daschle :boring:

Tom Vilsack :wtf:

Negative:


Evan Bayh :wtf:

Mark Warner :boring:

Hillary x(

Bill Richardson :eyes:

Joe Biden :puke: :eyes:



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. LOL! n/t
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Okay, here's my list
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 05:55 PM by beachmom
Favorable:

John Kerry
Al Gore (but he's not going to run)

Neutral:

Mark Warner
Hillary Clinton
Russ Feingold

Leaning Negative:

Joe Biden
Bill Richardson
John Edwards
Tom Daschle
Wesley Clarke
Chris Dodd
Evan Bayh
Tom Vilsack

To explain my system, I would be VERY enthusiastic voting for Kerry or Gore. After that, I go mostly to pragmatics (Hillary for her organization and Warner for his ability to win in a red state for governor) and idealism (Feingold). I don't like the principles of Hillary or Warner but I think for the reasons above they have a chance of winning in the general. I like Feingold for his principles but I don't think he has a chance in hell of winning in the general. Leaning Negative are candidates I can't see myself in any circumstance voting for.

My theory is that IF Kerry got the nomination again, then he would have a very good chance in the general, because Dems are very unforgiving, and Kerry would REALLY have to wow them for them to go for it. That would mean he was on the top of his game and ready to face the GOP. I will also say this to Kerry -- it can't go the way it did in 2003. NO MISTAKES this time. He really will have to be close to perfect to convince Dems to give him a second chance. A tough standard but I think he's up for it.

Edited to add: And no mistakes like in 2004 that were a result of triangulating the pro and anti war votes. Therefore the voted for/voted against meme. Kerry MUST be like the way he is now. Go for it, stand for what he believes in. Make swing voters come to HIM by his unflinching beliefs and vision, instead of trying to reach out to THEM. That's the only we he wins. Let Hillary and Warner do the triangulating.


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