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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:19 PM
Original message
DNC to reorder 2008 primary/caucus states?
Just read this on Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/6/28/125122/193

Kos and the rest are all piling on to NH. I think this is because they're still mad their guy lost. I commented and will probably get decimated because I said Kerry was good at retail politics, and that's why he won in Iowa. But seriously, I am concerned about this, because maybe those other states won't take their duty to choose as seriously as Iowa and New Hampshire. This is Deaniac claptrap all the way, IMO.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is one issue I hope the establishment Dem's win on. n/t
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes!! It's descending into a battle because the Feingold people
who want to keep things the way it is, and those living in the past what with Dean losing and all (somebody did point out the fact that with New Hampshire being right next to Vermont, Dean DID benefit from the primary/caucus being what it was). But then someone made this snarky comment:

well kos favors Warner (0 / 0)
so of course he'd want to level the field for a Virginian.

by NYFM on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:06:27 AM PDT

< Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll >


You know, I'm not going to have a beef with Feingold supporters. Their support is based on reality. But Warner being touted by the blogosphere is rather odd. As you guys know, I like Warner a lot and thought he was a great governor, but a progressive he is not. And he has no vision other than competence, and he has a LOT of homework to do in the areas of the environment and foreign policy. And NYFM is a frequent commenter, so the concept that the "Kossacks" are sheeple who will follow Kos anywhere is showing some cracks . . .
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Question -- I know that Kerry targeted voters that he thought he
could win, but is this true?

Err... Not quite (1+ / 0-)
Kerry's campaign was decent at micro-targeted politics. They were able to round up support of a few key players in a few key spots and won Iowa, and subsequently leaners in NH and by then the bowling ball was rolling pretty fast.

You can see how well the micro-targeting plan worked out a few months later in the general election...

-4.00, -5.79 | Speak up. Join Rapid Response.

by thesill on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:28:46 AM PDT

< Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll >


This sounds like Dean mythology that "micro-targeted politics" was all Kerry was about. But just was curious, so that I have ammunition to battle these disgruntled Deaniacs.

Here is the comment thread, if anyone with knowledge can add to this:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/6/28/125122/193/82#c82
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "micro-targeted politics" - That doesn't even make sense
How can 'micro-targeted" anything win a caucus, which depends on who has the greatest number of heads in your group?

First, Kerry busted his butt campaigning in Iowa. He stayed late at every rally he could, and talked to everybody who wanted to talk to him

Second, Teresa busted her butt too, people liked her, and she got great press for Kerry in Iowa.

Third, friends I knew had serious doubts about Gov Dean. I asked them to look at Kerry (I myself had looked hard at Dean and Kerry, and Kerry came out on top. . .Dean was TOO CONSERVATIVE and inexperienced for me)

Fourth, along those line, Kerry had tremendous word of mouth. People who saw him liked him, and they sent thier friends to see him. It didn't hurt that at rallys the staff encouraged you to sign committment cards, committing to call your friends to tell them about Kerry and what he stood for.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ahm, some of it is true.
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 01:28 PM by TayTay
A primary is not a general election, that is also true. Something like 40%+ of the Iowa caucus goers made up their mind the weekend before the voting. Hmmmmm, that alone says that you do different things for a primary than you do for a general election.

OF course it's targeted. That's why they are individual primaries. The other viewpoint, espoused by more than just Dean eople, btw, is that the process does not favor candidates who can 'go national' and who can speak to more than the constituencies of Iowa and New Hampshire. I have thoughts on both sides or this argument.

Remember, only a small percentage of voters in Iowa vote in the caucus. I heard about 22% of Dems voted, though that might be high. So, of course, a message has to be crafted that will get people out of the house and to the caucus location. It also has to take into account that Iowans don't like negative ads and that 40% of so of them are indecisive and don't commit to candidates until the day of the event. Of course you micro-appeal under those circumstances. How else is it done? (BTW, the REpublicans excel at this. They are heavy into picking out possible voters based on their preferences on bowling, churches, potato salad and so forth. Ahm, it works.)

Oh yeah, and some of the other campaigns can't count. They did not have what they thought they had for support in Iowa and over-estimated and under-estimated their 1's and 5's.

From the really interesting US NEws and World Report issue on How Keryr won Iowa:



John Kerry, on the other hand, trailing badly in the polls, unable to win big-name endorsements, having difficulty raising money, and with the governor of Iowa telling him privately that he had "a solid lock on a distant third," made the decision to shift his focus, his forces, and his finances to Iowa rather than pinning his hopes on New Hampshire, whose primary was eight days later. True, it was a decision aided by necessity: Kerry was doing so badly in New Hampshire that a distant third in Iowa actually looked good. But many presidential campaigns have ignored urgent necessity in order to gamble on the siren song of false opportunity. Instead, Kerry mortgaged his Boston house and rolled the dice. It was going to be Iowa or Palookaville, with no stops in between. "On the night of the caucuses," said the state's junior U.S. senator, Tom Harkin, "the two most surprised people in Iowa were Howard Dean and John Kerry."

Dean was especially shocked. "I knew how many Ones that we had, and I knew how many Twos that we had, and I knew it was enough to win," Dean said. In a political counting system so old that Moses may have used it to gauge his support among the Israelites, voters are ranked on a list from one to five. Though it differs slightly from campaign to campaign, a One is your strongest supporter, someone who has signed a pledge card promising to go to the polls and vote for you. A Two is a person who has pledged verbally to support you or has signed up at an event. Taken together, the Ones and Twos form your "hard count," those voters the campaign depends on to come out and vote. (Sort of. Actually, human nature being what it is, most campaigns figure they will get only about 80 percent of their Ones and 60 percent of their Twos on Election Day.) A Three is a person leaning toward you, a Four is supporting one of your opponents, and a Five is strongly for one of your opponents. The list of Ones, Twos, and Threes is compiled by calling or knocking on the doors of hundreds of thousands of people and asking them how they feel about the candidates. (This can also be done by robo-call, when a computer dials the phone and a recorded message asks the person to punch a button on the phone keypad to indicate level of support. The Kerry campaign was very big on the use of robo-calls, making sure whenever possible, however, that the recorded message came from a recognizable local or statewide supporter. One reason the Kerry camp liked robo-calling was that in the beginning, when Kerry was doing very poorly in Iowa, it was depressing for his volunteers to call people and be constantly told the person was not going to vote for their guy. By letting robo-calls cull the list, human volunteers could then take the list of Ones and Twos produced by the calls and follow up, making human contact.)

SNIP

And it wasn't as if Norris had been sitting on his hands. A native of Red Oak, Iowa, he knew the state and how to run a campaign there, having run the Jesse Jackson campaign in Iowa in 1988. As a former chairman and executive director of the Iowa Democratic Party, a former candidate for Congress, and a former chief of staff for Vilsack, Norris was a major catch for Kerry. From the beginning, Norris was convinced, even when nobody else was, that Kerry could win Iowa. "I was convinced Iowa would not give the nod to Gephardt," he said. Norris didn't worry about hard counts for months. Instead, he went after leadership: county chairpersons, state legislators, environmental activists, education activists.

They were more than supporters: They were validators. "In their local communities, they were known and respected," Norris said. "When they said they were for John Kerry, it meant something." Even so, Kerry wasn't getting any traction. Dean was hot; Kerry was not. "We weren't losing our people," Norris said, "but it was getting harder and harder to get people to join us."

It was about this time that Norris got the idea of the veterans list. Veterans get a break on their property taxes in Iowa, so Norris knew a list of veterans had to exist. It was a natural target audience for Kerry, but there was a problem: There wasn't one list; there were 99, one in each county, and some counties didn't want to give it up. "It was the mentality of the small town," Norris said. "They just didn't want to make it public and so they fought us." In the end, the Kerry campaign collected about 90 lists. They were in all kinds of different forms: electronic, paper printouts, handwritten. (Iowa has some very small counties.) The cost of collecting the lists was only $25,000, but in those days $25,000 was considered real money in the campaign. But it was worth it not only for the names and votes it produced but for something almost as important: The Kerry staff in Iowa was demoralized. Getting the list together boosted their spirits.

By summer, Norris had started collecting his hard counts, but the rules were strict. If a person responded to a phone call by saying, "I'm supporting John Kerry," that was not good enough for a One. To be a One, you had to sign a pledge card or have your support for Kerry validated by a volunteer or staffer. This first wave produced about 10,000 Ones. After that, however, with Dean's popularity skyrocketing, the numbers flat-lined. Norris grew worried and ordered the field staff to do what field staffs hate to do: Recount the Ones to make sure there was no erosion. (If you are responsible for Pocahontas County, population 8,600, and you have met your quota of Ones, the last thing you want to do is find out that 60 of them have dribbled away and that you have to find 60 new Kerry Ones to replace them. It was easier to keep telling headquarters in Des Moines that everything was fine and that there was no erosion.)

But Norris wanted his recount. By September, he was assembling his precinct captains. By October, Kerry's internal polling in Iowa showed improvement, but some people on the campaign didn't believe it. "Some started to question Mellman's methodology," Norris said. "They wondered what universe he was polling." In the last month before the caucuses, the numbers from the field were gathered in what everybody called the Blue Room, because unlike the Dean campaign, which used a complicated color system, Kerry used one color: blue. The bluer the map of Iowa got, the better it was for Kerry. "And it just kept getting bluer and bluer," Norris said. When he heard reports that Dean was getting 3,500 volunteers to come in for the last weeks of campaigning, he was not impressed. He had asked for 500 volunteers, got them, and wanted no more. It was difficult to train and organize even that many people. But he still had a big problem: Even though the numbers were improving, Norris couldn't get the money he needed for mailings to voters or TV ads.

Enter Michael Whouley. Suddenly it was not just John Norris on the phone to headquarters begging for money, but Michael Whouley saying we need the frigging money and we need it now. And the money came: for phone banks and mail and television and those "signature" items that made Whouley Whouley. Among Kerry's ground troops in Iowa, Dec. 19, 2003, is a day they still talk about, a day that is burned in their psyches and a day they will probably bore young staffers with for decades to come. "December 19," a top Kerry aide in Iowa said, "is the day the field staff got to meet Michael Whouley." The meeting took place in Des Moines's First Unitarian Church, which was appropriate. "To them, Whouley was almost a godlike figure," said the aide. "Norris and I had given the field staff many, many pep talks. But Whouley electrified them. He lit the room on fire with his passion for John Kerry. 'We're not just going to do well,' he told them. 'We're going to win!' "


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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks, Tay Tay -- actually this was also in a program on pbs
including Luntz. They talked about Kerry and how he won Iowa, so this doesn't surprise me. But I assume that the Ones he received came from his talent in retail politics. That guy's comment was snarky because he made it seem like Kerry's method meant he as a candidate wasn't any good, which was untrue. Plus, as you said, obviously, different tactics need to be used for caucuses/primaries than for a general election. Although people talk about a 50 state election, it's not going to be like that with the battleground states. And Kerry came awfully, awfully close.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think it's hundreds of campaigns at once
At least on the primary/caucus level. I think it's thousands of campaigns at once on the general election level. Politics is still about people. I think it always will be. As much as the netroots want it to be about ideology and policy, it will always have the people component in it.
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Do you know what the program was called?
It might be worth checking out.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It was an episode of Frontline on PBS called "The Persuaders"
Here is the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/

From the transcript which includes Kerry's campaign which was benign, and then how Karl Rove used the same method to tap into racists in the South. Although not mentioned, sounds like they are referring to Max Cleland among others who were ousted:

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: One Democrat found narrowcasting just in time. John Kerry's victories in the 2004 Iowa and New Hampshire primaries were national news, but few knew the whole story of Kerry's stunning comeback. He was behind in the polls and couldn't find a way to reach voters through all that political noise. But the Kerry campaign had discovered a way to identify and talk to thousands of voters who'd been turned off by political ads. It wasn't campaign workers who found them, it was a couple of off-the-shelf PCs sifting reams of demographic data.

Overseeing the operation was a little-known Kerry consultant named Kenneth Strasma.

KENNETH STRASMA, Kerry Campaign Consultant: Democratic primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire were getting called by 10 different candidates for months and months, and it was getting very hard to reach people. So what we did is, we looked at all the information we had from the folks we'd called so far and came up with a Kerry voter profile, which gave us the percent likelihood that someone would say, yes, they'd support Kerry, if we called them.

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: This sort of voter profiling – which both parties used to chase down swing voters in the general election – incorporates behaviors we don't normally associate with voting, like whether you have caller ID, a sedan or a hatchback, or more than one pet. The thing about narrowcasting is that it gives politicians a chance to say things to some people they might not want others to hear.

You can take the most controversial message that maybe wouldn't work on TV but still deliver it to the 20,000 people in a certain district who will respond favorably to it.

KENNETH STRASMA: Oh, absolutely. There are – some of the biggest motivators in terms of issues are also the most divisive issues. On one end of the spectrum, you've got abortion rights, pro-life/pro-choice, and you've also got gun control and gun ownership rights. And those are both messages that people aren't likely to go up on TV with in a national campaign because they're very polarizing. But there are advocacy groups on both sides who've gotten very good at figuring out where their voters, who vote based on those issues, are and getting a message to those people without necessarily getting a divisive message to the whole electorate.

GEORGIA PROTESTER: Roy Barnes sold all us Georgians out!

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: In 2001, President Bush's chief strategist, Karl Rove, conducted a series of experiments in narrowcasting for the GOP. The following year, the state Republican parties put Rove's findings into practice. In Georgia, they were used in a campaign to unseat a slew of incumbent Democrats.

VOTER: I mean, it – you know, the flag did have something to do with it.

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: The GOP used the incendiary issue of the Confederate emblem on the Georgia state flag to galvanize a select group of usually apathetic male voters.

GEORGIA PROTESTER: You mess with our flag, you pack you bag!

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: Targeting their message door-to-door and through telemarketing, the team drove high numbers of rural males to the polls and delivered a Republican sweep.

STUART EWEN, Hunter College: When you start sending messages which appeal to sort of, you know, white people in pick-up trucks, and then you're also sending messages to black people in Cleveland, and it's a qualitatively different kind of message, you're really trying to stir – or you're really trying to appeal to those aspects of people which sees themselves as different from each other.

PETER SWIRE: Instead of being Americans, we're sliced into 70 demographic groups. We might be sliced into hundreds of subcategories under that. And then the worry is that we don't share anything as a people.

STUART EWEN: The result is living in a society where people, rather than having an idea of the common good, increasingly see their own personal well-being or their own community's or ethnicity's well-being as the essential issue of democracy.


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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you! n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Well, one thing
We weren't completely surprised we won Iowa, more surprised we won by as large a percentage as we did. We were hearing a lot of rumbling from Iowans that the orange hats weren't going over well, that Deanie's were stumbling over the same set of 1's and not broadening their support, that Kerry was everybody's #2.

From your "snip" on, yes, that's exactly the way I remember it. It was the ground organization, the vets and firefighters, and eventually Gephardt's union workers, that swung it. But you do have to have a candidate people believe in and no matter how much whining is done, like I said, Kerry was everybody's #2 so making that turn in the last days wasn't that much of a stretch. Once NH saw Kerry could win in the midwest, that was enough for them to believe he could win nationally.

IMHO anyway.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It was one hell of a courageous gamble
to risk that house on that outcome. One hell of a gamble.
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