"If we train the troops to have values, they won't be able to KILL"

Strange notion, but freepers are saying it right now.

Watch 'em soil themselves.

not going to magically find them regardless of the courses they have to sit through.

A few aberrant beings have really screwed up the troops who are ethical, and I'm sure the moral soldiers are in the majority. I imagine the morale must be really low in Iraq. :(

*see* Vietnam

The problem is that more emphasis is placed on loyalty and not enough on morality.


Example:

"You know that some of your squadmates killed an unarmed civilian. Do you report it, because it's the "moral" thing to do, or do you say nothing because of your loyalty to your buddies."

...for the character General Buck Turgidson in Dr. Strangelove:



Freepers often say things that would have fit very well in this movie. I'll bet when Freepers watch Dr. Strangelove they curse the unpatriotic, America hating, librul elements who try to get those planes recalled. And I'll bet they cheer Slim Pickens (bomber pilot of the one plane that makes it through Russian air defenses) as he rides that bomb down in the final scene.

Christians and Muslims are worshipping the same God, just doing it differently.

After WWI there was a huge problem that the War Dept. was trying to solve. It seems that American soldiers, along with other countrys' armies, weren't very efficient killing machines. The ratio of ammo used to enemies killed was sky high. It seems that mankind has an innate aversion to killing their fellow man, a survival of the species instinct that was quite inconvient to the Army brass. It turned out that soldiers were firing high, wide and anywhere else except at the soldiers they were facing across no mans land.

And this sort of thing simply couldn't be tolerated.

Therefore, through the twenties and thirties the War Dept. worked on a super secret brainwashing program that would strip a recruit's psyche down and allow the military to build it back up as a full fledged killing machine that would have no qualms about leveling their rifle at the enemy and pulling the trigger. After much consultation with psychologists and other experts, they rolled out this program right before WWII.

This program is known as basic training

Yep, all that yelling, insulting, browbeating, humiliation and physical exertion has oneoverarching purpose, and that is too break down the psyche of a human and turn them into a killing machine. Sadly however, this sort of mucking around in the heads of recruits has some unfortunate side effects, and we've seen the results of this for the past sixty-five years. Atrocities are committed, and after the war is over, some soldiers have a difficult, if not impossible path to returning to normality.

So yes, in a way the freeps are right. If we start instilling values back into the equation, it would probably limit their effectiveness as killing machines. But it would also minimize these sorts of atrocities that occur at places like My Lai and Haditha. Such a conundrum.

Perhaps the answer is to not get involved in a war unless we absolutely have to.:shrug:

what else would they do but war?

You've got military power concentrated in the Pentagon, where they have plans to do just about anything(except, you know...peace), and dream up more plans every day, and all you end up with is a military with bases all over the globe.

Currently we spend more on our armed forces than then next twenty eight countries combined. Sure, a lot of that is due to our investment in a high tech army, but still, cut down that spending, par our military to a defensive force only, and that would curb the government's ability to go on this expeditions that they so dearly love.

It is time for the US to stop pretending it is the global cop. That excuse has led us from one unnecessary war to another to another. That's supposed to be the job of the UN, it's high time we allowed them to perform it.

Although I'm not sure how the UN would police the world without the US Military(if it can even do so with it).

to be brainwashed so that you "could" kill - supposedly with the right set of circumstances - like to actually DEFEND one's family, country, comrades, etc.

As far as what was posted in the OP - with the Freeper comments - I wonder if they recognize the Geneva Conventions. If our troops were actually somewhere defending us - there would be the difference of carrying out the war under the provisions of the Geneva Conventions or not. Being that the whole war is illegal - there probably isn't as much concern if specifics actually are considered "legal" or "ethical" in a war sense.


It's another thing altogether to be over in some one else's country - killing women on their way to the hospital or anyone else in a hurry. To know that the war is completely immoral - to know that what you are doing is OFFENSIVE and immoral. Whether you get caught up killing people in their homes or not.

When the troops are other places - like established bases - where they are intimidating people - that is bad - but there are different degrees and varying levels of direct involvement. If you are in the service and someone else has already done the dirty work of getting rid of the population - you may be continuing an outrage - but you may not be participating in an atrocity.

Of course many do not know when they sign up - if they signing up for "merely" outrages or full-blown atrocities.

I remember a history teacher saying that whenever a country has built up an military force - they always use it eventually - for something or other.

the fact is, the military does share their values. The volunteer military is a lot more conservative than society at large.
But once their boys are caught slaughtering innocents, the freeps start putting up rhetorical barriers between them and the men doing the killing in their name.

Having values means being reluctant to kill people and reluctant in helping others to kill people. Being reluctant to kill makes you next to useless as a soldier.

...difference between right and wrong, the slaughter of innocents and the killing of enemy soldiers.
We don't want soldiers without values, morality, and conscience.

Troops are trained. Officers are educated. If troops are trained in values they could not kill because the Bush war is wrong. If officers were educated in values they would know why it is wrong to direct troops to follow orders to kill in the Bush war.

Troops are not going to be trained in values, they are going to be trained in following orders. Educating officers in values would be disastrous. They might become leaders and exercise judgment in giving and following orders in regard to values.

Orders are orders from the Chimp-in-Chief for troops and officers. Defending the Constitution against enemies is a sworn value of an officer in addition to following orders.

The values that were taught to them, by their family? I thought being a Marine, meant you have been taught HONOR. Honor with everything you do. Honor even in war.

The backwash, are just trying to defend what is clearly indefensible. They free-based their koolaid.

Only a depraved human being, or one that is really mentally ill- would line up innocent civilians, and murder them execution style. Only a depraved human being would continue to make excuses for it.