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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:34 AM
Original message
Libby, Ledeen, and the Wall Street Journal

Timing is everything. Two brief examples come to mind: The same month that George W. Bush broke into the office that Al Gore had actually been elected to, the Niger Embassy in Italy was burglarized. Then, when the Bush administration needed something to convince the American public that Saddam's Iraq posed a threat to this country, the Niger yellow cake forgeries appeared. Fancy that.

When Dick Cheney, Condi Rice and other administration representatives were going to appear on the Sunday morning talk shows on September 8, 2002, they were all able to point to an article from that very morning's New York Times about Saddam's WMD programs. As it turned out, Scooter Libby had timed that article with disgraced "journalist" Judith Miller.

Could it be that those aspens have such good timing because they are connected at the roots? Let's take a look at two articles that came out yesterday, which were about the Niger yellow cake forgeries and the role these documents played in bringing our nation to war in Iraq. The first is an editorial from the Wall Street Journal ("Fitzgerald, Scooter and Us"), the second is from Vanity Fair ("The War They Wanted, The Lies They Needed," by Craig Unger).

The Niger yellow cake forgeries are documents that suggested that Iraq was buying large quantities of uranium to use in WMD production. The Niger forgeries are one leaf on a clover of closely related scandals, which also the Plame and the neocon/AIPAC spy scandals. All three involve a core group of shadowy, unofficial intelligence operations, coordinated with what Joseph Wilson has called "a small pack of zealots ... with cells in most of the national security system," and with agents representing foreign governments. Wilson further noted that, "Among these cells are the secretive Office of Special Plans in the Department of Defense (repportedly now disbanded) and a similar operation in the State department that is managed in the Office of Under Secretary for Disarmament John Bolton." (The Politics of Truth; page 432)

The goal of these shadowy operations was summed up in a September 4, 2002 Wall Street Journal article by one of the group's leading members, Michael Ledeen, which advocated the USA overthrowing the governments of Iraq, Iran, and Syria. The fact that the Bush administration was focused on invading Iraq since Bush took office has been documented by a number of former administration officials, including Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill. And in "Plan of Attack," Bob Woodward documents that the Saudi government was offering the Bush administration "up to $1 billion" for joint intelligence operations aimed at overthrowing Saddam in April of 2002. (page 229)

Now let's look at the twelve paragraphs of the WSJ editorial. Their article trashes Patrick Fitzgerald and Joseph Wilson, while expressing support for Scooter Libby. The foundation for this is the Niger forgeries.

The language they use to describe Mr. Fitzgerald and the case against Libby is telling. They claim that Mr. Fitzgerald "comes close to suggesting that senior government officials have no right to fight back against critics who make false allegations." Actually, of course, Libby is charged with lying to FBI investigators and the grand jury.

"It suggests that his case is a lot weaker than his media spin." In fact, Judge Walton looked into exactly who was spinning the media. Team Libby admitted to talking to a reporter, and to releasing a court document before it was made public by the court. The prosecutor had not violated the court's instruction to avoid engaging in such activities.

"...Mr. Fitzgerald is scrambling even now...", "...Mr. Fitzgerald refuses to acknowledge," and "...he has made the terrible mistake ... of taking Joe Wilson's side..." are three other examples of the editorial's attempt to spin the case against little Scooter.

Regarding Joseph Wilson, the editorial refers to: "...Joe Wilson and his false allegations"; "...Mr. Wilson's fantasy version"; "...Mr. Wilson's manifestly false allegations"; and "...the official probes (that) destroyed his credibility."

I am reminded of Minister Malcolm X teaching us that the corporate media would try to portray criminals as victims, and victims as criminals. The WSJ editorial would have us believe that Scooter was acting to protect our country from dangerous enemies when he exposed Valerie Plame's identity, and that the yellow cake documents were not forgeries after all. Indeed, the WSJ "comes close to suggesting" that the US found the yellow cake that these forgeries claimed had been sold to Saddam.

Craig Unger's article in Vanity Fair is everything the WSJ editorial is not. It takes a fair approach that includes presenting both side's claims, it is an honest attempt to find the truth, and it is an accurate report of the Niger forgeries operation that led a large number of citizens to support the administration's aggression in Iraq.

The article includes information from nine former intelligence officials, including several who served in the Bush administration. They refer to the Niger forgeries as "a disinformation operation," "black ops," "black propaganda," and "a classic psy-ops campaign" -- all descriptions of "a covert operation to deliberately mislead the American public."

Vanity Fair found at least 14 examples of the intelligence community warning the White House that the Niger documents were suspect, before George W. Bush included his infamous "16 words" in his 2003 State of the Union address. However, the Office of Special Plans (OSP) and White House Iraq Group (WHIG) continued to push the claim that Iraq was buying yellow cake uranium from Niger for WMD production.

One of the individuals central in the effort to mislead the American public that the article identifies is Michael Ledeen. He has a history of engaging in misinformation operations inside the United States, and coordinating criminal activities such as those of the Iran-Contra scandals. He is closely tied to the group of zealots that Wilson describes as having "spanned decades" in their efforts to promote the neoconservative agenda.

It is interesting to note that the article by Craig Unger lists six times where Wall Street Journal articles by or about Mr. Ledeen include information about the neoconservatives' plans to remake the Middle East in their own image.

Mr. Ledeen has done much more than inspire the WSJ to promote the Niger forgeries. He is described as Douglas Feith's collaborator, who was "in and out" of OSP meetings during the lead-up to the Iraqi invasion. More, he set-up meetings in Rome between intelligence fabricator Manucher Ghorbanifar (who Ledeen connected with Ollie North in the Iran-Contra crimes), Harold Rhode, and Larry Franklin of ythe OSP. Franklin, of course, has pled guilty to playing a role in the closely related neocon/AIPAC spy scandal.

In an April essay, I had suggested that the people connected to the OVP/WHIG were going to engage in a disinformation campaign, to try to make the criminals look like victims, and the victims look like criminals. The Wall Street Journal editorial is clearly part of that campaign. The article is of the same quality as Judith Miller's pre-war advocacy for the OVP/OSP/WHIG lies.

Thank goodness for Craig Unger's article.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. One of the most disturbing elements of the Plame scandal
is the disinformation, not from just one source, but many. Members of the WHIG, OSP and others must have just about zero respect for their fellow Americans or they wouldn`t continue with their deceitful manipulation of the truth.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. The network is vast and persistent - think about it from 1998 to 2006
they ave been relentless and to this very last Sunday they have continued to push there cause to keep to the takeover agenda and try to stay out of jail.

I say 1998 because that is the year they wrote to Pres Clinton and asked him to invade Iraq - and did a bulk signing of their letter. It is obvious that the plan has been in motion well before that.

It makes you wonder, if they invited the editors, newspaper and magazine owners, and writers to a meeting and had them sign up for the cause. If yes, what were they paid?

Russert. Woodward. Matthews. Cooper. Miller. And all the others.

Was Victoria Toensing and Joe DiGenova there?

Did Victoria Toensing or Joe DeGenoa draft the latest article for the WSJ? (Since we know they never just stick to the law, they politicize and distort and participate in character defamation when they appear on TV.)

Musing. Because U.S. citizens do not deserve these people.

When you see Russert get mushy and teary for his father - ask what he and GE have done for the citizens of this country?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I agree that 1998
was an important time, in which the neocons began to put some of their operations into motion.

I wouldn't agree with putting Matthews in the group with the others. He not only was the first to warn Joseph Wilson about Rove, and has provided the best Plame scandal coverage in the corporate media, but he has also been a critic of the war in Iraq -- and is opposing the efforts to create a military "crisis" in Iran.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. The Aspen Institute does just this--
bring together journalists and think-tanker/policy-wonks so the journalists will start to get co-opted into the "think du jour" and begin to learn its language.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. In that case the media should concentrate on the AUMFs
(Authorizations of Use of Military Force), both giving Bush the power to use the military 'as he determines'.

This abrogates the War Powers Act of 1972 (a.k.a. 'War Powers Resolution'

http://www.policyalmanac.org/world/archive/war_powers_resolution.shtml ),

which specifies

"" SEC. 2. (a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations. ""

The implicit assumption is that TRUTHFUL situations and circumstances will be presented to Congress to rubberstamp at the very least. In the Iraq (and possibly the 9-11 case if you believe the LIHOP/MIHOP information being presented, but I digress) WMDs case it is obvious that someone lied to Congress regarding the situation and circumstances.

The MSM is busy now sweeping this under the rug.

The undeclared 'war on terror', without specific enemies and timetable (the duration, as they said during WWII), now has morphed Bush's war into a never-ending worldwide theatre of operations, with accompanying budgets and rationales.

We simply "must _____"...fill in the blank. NSA domestic wiretapping without warrants, check. Military spending without Congressional oversight, check, Black budgets (supported by heroin trade and congressional payola) outside of Congress's oversight, Secret operations outside of the Constitution, check. Erosion of US 'moral authority', check.

They've done a bang-up job so far.

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. You have covered alot here H20 Man
I am printing, and taking it outside to share with my cat.

WSJ, Ledeen, Miller,Whig, Aipac, - connected at the roots? - oh yeah baby!

victims as criminals/criminals as victims - Fitz will not fall for this - No Way! - This is way too lame...

From Unger Article:
"A week after Bush's (SOTU) speech, on February 4, the Bush administration finally forwarded electronic copies of the Niger documents to the I.A.E.A. Astonishingly, a note was attached to the documents which said, "We cannot confirm these reports and have questions regarding some specific claims."
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. you know it never occurred to me...
to read political articles to my dogs. I don't think the pug would care but perhaps the chihuahua? Why should I keep them uninformed? It's their country too. :P
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Rock on, H2OMan, as always - you take a complex issue and put it into
terms even a OxyRush listener could almost understand. Thank you
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Link to that piece of shit WSJ editorial. What a bunch of
whinebags. They can dish out the lies and the bullshit, but when push comes to shove they can't take being hit back.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008476
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. The WSJ has always been in the neo-cons' back pockets.
The Cons make sure to take care of what george w. bush calls, "their base", the rich "investor" class. The WSJ (that isn't fit for fish-wrap) has always carried this mal-administration's water for them. THEY could give a crap about the rest of the country either. It's the Repiglickens' mantra, "I got mine, now the rest of you can fuck off and die". :grr: This country has never been closer to REAL class warfare because of them and it's only going to get worse. The divide between rich and poor is ever widening and the middle class has almost disappeared altogether. A society cannot survive with such disparity.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. The more the judicial 'noose' tightens around Libby's preferred
defense strategy, the more vociferous and vitriolic I expect the attacks against Fitzgerald will become. Thank goodness for Craig Unger's article, indeed.

Thanks, H2O Man, as always, for your informative essays, they always tie the needed loose ends together so I go back to focusing on the key issues relating to the Plame outing.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. On attacking Fitzgerald ....
It seems curious that they pick something so obviously full of baloney, like his "media spin." I think that most people are aware that Mr. Fitzgerald does not engage in any media campaign. In the Libby case, he clearly doesn't need to.

I do get a kick out of how their forces are unable to adjust to Mr. Fitzgerald's picking the lies to the FBI and grand jury, rather than the issues the OVP/WHIG is attempting to contest. Even Team Libby seems stuck on fighting on the OVP/WHIG fronts.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. It does seem they find it impossible to believe that neither Fitzgerald
and Judge Walton aren't buying the Libby defense strategy to address issues unrelated to the actual charges. It seems those who were tagged with defending Libby et al to the public are unable to redefine their defense from it's original premise even when it is clear that strategy has become null and void. It will be interesting to see if they remain wedded to that tact in defiance of the facts.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
38. They Have To Remain "Wedded"
They have no where else to go. Divorce would mean the whole thing comes apart. Who would betray whom, who would keep the friends, "alimony" (?) or was there a pre-nupt?

*shadow government*
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank goodness for you H20Man!
Edited on Wed Jun-07-06 11:01 AM by Marnieworld
I love your work, read anything that I get my hands on. What is your name, at least your first name if I might ask. It feels weird to call you H20man in my head. But if that's what you want so be it. Put a book together so more people can appreciate you like we do here.

:patriot: :yourock:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. My name ....
is Patrick. Some friends call me Pat. Other people use a variety of other names, some of which are not kind.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yay!
Patrick! Well Mr. Patrick, I just think that you are super duper! Thanks for all of the time spent to bring the truth to the rest of us! :toast:

I think these fuckers will go down because of people like you. It just happens so s l o w l y that it can drive you crazy. When I was reading the Unger piece I almost wished for charts and graphs to show the connections between people and scandals. The web of deceit is so intricate. Hubris will get them in the end though. They didn't cover their trails well enough plus once people start turning over for plea bargains it will get really interesting.

Peace!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Who on earth would call you unkind names?
Another great post, Patrick. :thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Over the years
my best friends have called me nice names, and my beast fiends have called me rude names. I think I've earned them all. (grin)
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
45. As far as I am concerned, it's Mr. Waterman
Thanks for your excellent work on our behalf.
May we all grow to be as focused and tireless advocates of the truth as you are.

Or at least may you keep producing such quality material off of which we may leech.

Cheers!
Matt
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Scooter seems to have two contradictory defenses,
used to differing degrees in the court of law and the court of public opinion.

One is that he was such a busy, important guy that there's no way he could be expected to remember little details about conversations regarding the trivial matter of Joe Wilson's wife. But unfortunately the record shows that his boss the VP was all over this, repeatedly directing Scooter to get "all" the info out about Ms. Plame in order to counter Wilson's claims.

The second is that Wilson is a liar, and that his claims were completely disproven and his credibility destroyed. Were this true, he should have found it easy to remember the straightforward way in which he countered Wilson's claims. But it's not true, and Scooter's rebuttals were instead underhanded, below-the-belt punches spread in an illegal scheme of leaks and planted stories.

He's like a guy on trial for shooting someone, who points to the victim and says, "I never saw him before in my life, and if I did, I only stabbed him, and it was self-defense."
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. As my friend explained it to me...
Edited on Wed Jun-07-06 09:50 PM by sofa king
As illogical as it seems, it is a valid and even required legal approach to defending a client. I understood it better when my lawyer friend put it this way: the prosecutor is trying to build a fishing pier and defense is the ocean trying to render the pier useless before it is complete. The prosecutor must lay posts, one after the other, a prescribed distance out to sea. Obviously, if the ocean can knock over just one of the posts anywhere along the length with a wave, the ocean succeeds. But the ocean can also raise its level above the height of the pier (jurisdiction or intervention by Congress or the President). It can retreat so that the pier is on nothing but dry ground (was a crime committed?). It can freeze itself solid (delay). It can erode the beach behind the pier so that the pier is stranded (fairness or statute of limitations). It can kill the fish (jury or judge selection and manipulation). It can damage the pier enough to require it to be rebuilt (appeal). And if the ocean does not attempt to do all of these things, then it is not utilizing all of the powers at its disposal, which is the duty of ocean, and the defense attorney. I'm sure I've got this analogy incorrect in some shape or form by the way, because I am very happily not a lawyer.

Unlike the prosecution, the defense is in no way required to offer a consistent chain of logic (except on specific points), and in fact it almost never does.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. An excellent explanation.
Scooter will still need to convince a jury, though, with a plausible narrative of his own actions that somehow exonerates him. He's going to have a very hard time doing that.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. He may have
a more difficult time with a DC jury than he would in, say, a city in Texas.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Yes indeed he is.
And please don't take my comment above to mean that we somehow cannot ridicule or poke holes in Scooter's defense. Sometimes the inconsistencies have a way of revealing the truth.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. when an organism is in the clutches of death is when it usually fights
the hardest or at least I have found in my travels while witnessing nature.

I think Libby and all of his supporters are finally feeling nature's death grip in this fight.
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PRETZEL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Again, and as usual, another great post
This quite plainly put the connection of the various cases/plea agreements together. It is just so unfortunate that the general population can't get the same info we here have (hint: write the damn book will you............)because the mainstream media won't take the time or effort. And as usual that plays directly into the hands of the neocons since they're the ones in power and it's their version the people generally hear. The right has been doing a pretty good job of late of connecting the crimes that Libby actually committed to the ones as yet proven and indicted on. The MSM is still being lazy in calling the Libby indictments as the "CIA leak" crimes. They're not and no matter how many times we prove it to them we still can't get them to understand that. But as with all good things, time is on our side and history will be also.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. "Ce n'est pas la vérité."
"'This wasn't an accident,' says Milt Bearden, a 30-year C.I.A. veteran who was a station chief in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, and Germany, and the head of the Soviet–East European division. 'This wasn't 15 monkeys in a room with typewriters.'"

No, it was just a few; and the room was oval shaped.

And our old friend Michael Ledeen reappears... with Turkish fascists and Bulgarian Communists. But he's never met SISMI. Never. Okay -- maybe once. And maybe they did pay him, or his "company", but he doesn't recall having a coded identity.

Thanks goodness for Mr. Unger, indeed. K&R.

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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Ledeen - the go to guy for international espionage
Edited on Wed Jun-07-06 12:09 PM by annces8


I think he definitely knows the weaknesses of the system, a big schemer.

from his resume

Visiting professor of history, University of Rome, Italy, 1975-1977

http://www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.35/scholar.asp
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. What the hell is that thing sitting behind him?
Looks like a cultural arts project gone wrong.

And what's with the Darth Vader helmet to his right? I guess that's his disguise for when he goes out burglarizing Embassy offices?

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. When you compare all who were involved in making war with the
number of people who stand in their way it is a team of #### vs 3 as far as the public is concerned. (#### could be 1000 to 9999)

We don't know how many people are involved in starting and pimping the war, but we know it is vast. Have you ever stopped to imagine what it has taken to pull off this war whether successful or not?

The three are Wilson, Wilson, and Fitzgerald.

The Wilson's have been the target of disproportionate distortions and outright lies for over three years. Now, after a few years of investigation, the WSJ has come out with all cannons, handguns, and missile launchers against Fitzgerald.

It is very intriguing that Brewster-Jennings keeps falling off the radar screen - even on DU (repeatedly). It is very obvious that the absence of Brewster-Jennings is a continued plus for the vast number of war makers. It is a travesty that the only motive given for U.S. WH alleged crimes is revenge while the truth in motives remains hidden (and Cheney remains free).

All three people targeted are or have been U.S. Government employees - our employees. A portion of the #### war makers are also U.S. Government employees and another portion take privileges or money from the war making employees. Our money.

Though there are only three people who the WSJ type operatives place their spotlight on, there are vast crowds of people in the shadows who are waiting in support for the truth.

Just who are the patriots in this game?

Yes, H20man, we need more books so that that shadow crowd can grow.

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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. The WSJ editorialists have tied themselves to Moby Dick
Edited on Wed Jun-07-06 12:39 PM by Pithy Cherub
& Ahab Scooter because to do otherwise would mean they have given up on evil winning. The investment in the bush exploits has been huge on behalf of the VRWC. The cognitive dissonance is supported by republican groupthink as espoused by the WSJ to make them feel better. They are trapped and had a choice between fight or flight and chose to stand and fight on vapor ground. Fitzgerald in an interesting way is like that odd summer hit movie - I Know What You Did Last Summer.

The pre emption doctrine also has been adopted by the press and they do it most vicerferously when they know more bad is on its way. My take is this was a feeble WSJ shot across the USS Fitzgerald that lands well short of the mark. Not knowing what arrows Fitzgerald has is slowly making them more irrational.

Libby has exhausted all means of defense strategies and the only ones unaware of the legal problem is the bought and paid for Team Libby.


Very Very Good H2OMan. June 12 is very close now! :popcorn:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yep.
I suspect we aren't the only ones anticipating the Monday showdown! It's going to be a hot time in the capital city's federal courthouse. The Scooteroids are getting nervous.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. For A Minute
I was thinking "what Monday showdown?" Then I remembered that Scoot has a date with a judge. His Waterloo.

*shadow government*
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. yep - and I just checked the Document site and nothing new
for Scooter or Rover. I guesss something later on Monday, but I am keeping hope for something on this Friday ;)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. The Plan
Did they put it into the works the minute after they stole the election? Was it a fly by the seat of your pants deal, which is why it was so poorly done? Ot once they chaded their way into the WH did they think anything would go?

OSP has been disbanded? Or has it been turned into SOP (special office of plans)?

There has been numerous articles in the last month jumping on Fitzgerald. B. York seems to especially have a bug up his nose. Wonder what he gets for this?

*shadow government*
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haab Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. Pat, you're simply FUCKING AMAZING
Never miss any of your articles... keep them coming H2O Man. You're documenting the biggest scandal of this decade. It can only get worse..! I can't wait.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. Another wonderfully succinct essay from H2O Man.
:applause:
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. Keep them coming H2OMan
I'm surprised at how many people have no Idea what's been going on - the equivalent of a Watergate break in, Squared..and with these people for the most part being either Rove or Cheney's "plumbers"..

The WSJ ties in perfectly once you see where it's all come from..

a conspiracy charge would seem simple enough if law worked as it should, simply JAIL all members of the WHIG and there you go.. wouldn't mind some batteries attached to nasty bits to make sure the truth serum was working :)

no book, damn..
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. "Squared."
Agreed. Far, far more significant in consequence. But many do not grasp the connection. On a thread yesterday, one person wrote that there really is no evidence that the break-in is related to the forged documents. Right. Probably not the same country either. There are so many Nigers.
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cfperez Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. What was the reason for Berluscioni's Visit last fall?
Connecting the dots with just one more observation: The unscheduled visit to the White House by the former Italian president last October; the preznit cancelled the press conference, and the two leaders met for several hours. The Italian government of Berluscioni seemed interested in maintaining the only plausible explanations for the discovery of the documents, as belonging to some "on-going investigation," but there's a new president now.

ITALY’S BERLUSCONI TO MEET WITH BUSH OCTOBER 31

President Bush will welcome Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to the White House October 31, according to a statement issued by McClellan October 17.

During their meeting and lunch, Bush and Berlusconi are expected to discuss “their shared commitment to advance freedom and democracy around the world,” according to the statement.

“Italy is one of America's strongest allies and closest partners in the global War on Terror,” and is “playing a leading role in international stabilization and reconstruction efforts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Balkans,” the statement said.
<http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2005/Oct/18-231947.html>

And once again, before the elections,
<http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/02/20060228.html>


But we know what was on their mind is How well controlled are the few who do have information?

Also, wasn't Stephen Hadley was in Italy at about the time of the burglaries?

There are several French and Italian secret service people who know exactly what happened... they worked for the ex-president. I guess if money talked, they might be induced to sing. Time will tell.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Interesting.
Thanks for this!

Stephan Hadley's role is largely unappreciated by the general public. He is another of the "quiet men" who plays a significant part in the crimes against our democracy.
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NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. Good Job. I heard about the Wall Street 'opinion' piece on CSPAN
the other day - they claim that Fritz is using another article from them as proof that Libby lied & that this was their way of getting the record 'straight' that Scooter didn't leak anything to them. Couldn't believe that they were saying that his case is weak against Scooter. Hope that is wishful thinking on their part.

Look at James Bamford's 'Pretext to War: 9/11, Iraq, & the Abuse of America's Intelligence Agencies' for details on how the neo-clowns manipulated the intelligence on WMD - especially the Defense Department agencies. He has a good section on the Niger fake yellow cake docs.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. On Bamford ....
the first Anchor Books edition has a great "new afterword" that has, at least in my opinion, some of the most valuable information. I think that this is the version you are referring to. It is one of the single most important sources of information for those interested in these scandals.
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NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
35.  Wish Bamford would get more MSM exposure, but his linking the neo-clowns
to Israel is too hot of a topic for some - even though it is true. Read the book when it first came out & its been the best book then & since I've read on the topic. Just about everything he stated has been proven now to be true. He certainly has some good connections. I'm going to have to get another copy of the book - I let a friend of mine borrow it & the bonehead lost it :)
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
36. And that liberal media will run with this until the cows come home!!
Oh wait...

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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
39. My observation of the WSJ editorial page.
For many years I assisted a number of tribes which were attempting to attain federal recognition, meaning that those tribes would officially become sovereign entities somewhat like states, and if they succeeded, it was likely that those tribes would wish to start up gambling operations on their reservations. Suddenly, starting in around 1998, the Wall Street Journal editorial page started spouting off against federal recognition, against Indian gaming, and against tribes in general.

These opinions were supported by what I can describe only as flat-out lies, lies about how the legal process worked, lies about corruption, and lies about the legal status of tribes. It should come as no surprise that these opinions exactly paralleled the disinformation being put out by the non-Indian gaming industry, particularly those with interests in Atlantic City.

Those lies in turn were repeated by ignorant pundits throughout the press, and if I recall correctly, one of the editorials was actually read into the Congressional Record. They started being repeated in Congressional hearings.

People threatened to sue the WSJ, people demanded corrections, retractions, or rebuttals. Never, not even once, did the Wall Street Journal back away from its ill-informed opinion.

Then last year I happened to find my way into an industry association here in Arlington, VA, as a temp. When I first arrived I had to sit in on a department meeting in which the PR people were plotting to place an editorial with the WSJ. Not knowing my place and unaware (until just minutes later) of their plan, I told them more or less exactly what I said above.

They laughed, and one of them said, "that's the plan."

But the real plan was this: they were going to fly one of the WSJ editorial staff down to DC, put her up at the Mayflower or some other swanky joint in DC, assign a limousine service to drive her around town, and use their direct connections to arrange a meeting between the head of the association, the editorialist, and Karl Rove (I never fully figured out what sort of connection this association had to Rove, but they spoke of him not just as an ally, but as a co-conspirator). Entertainment was also planned, but that was not discussed in the meeting I attended. The total expense for this part weekday, all weekend visit had to weigh in at well over ten thousand dollars.

At the end of the visit, they planned to hand her an editorial that they themselves had written, and ask her to print that. If she would not, they intended to closely guide what she would write herself, and if she insisted on writing something of which they did not approve, they intended to use Karl Rove and Tony Snow (former Chairman of CSX and then-Treasury Secretary and also apparently under the thumb of this association) to pull the plug on it altogether.

I didn't last long enough at that job to find out if they got their editorial printed, and I didn't bother looking.

But that's how the editorial process works at the Wall Street Journal.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. Kick nt
:dem:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-07-06 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. as always..GREAT JOB H20 MAN!!!...YOU ARE THE BEST!!
and always get it right!! and pull it all together wonderfully!!

you are a treasure!!

fly
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
49. that Vanity Fair piece....
...is the most important expose I've seen in a long, long time. Fearless investigative journalism. The reporter oughta win awards for it.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
50. Damn, sorry to be joining late!
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