why are there so few Estate/Death tax threads?

Why is this issue so unpopular here? This affects EVERYONE as it causes a tax revenue black hole of over $1trillion over the next few years. Where do you think they money will come from?? China and ALL OF OUR INCOME TAXES. Meanwhile the Raymond and Hilton children dont get to pay any money on BILLIONS.

So why is this issue not being discussed on DU? Why do I feel that people just dont care about it here compared to other issues??

letter to the editor on this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1372581&mesg_id=1372581

Please kick it if it's important to you. :hi:

:shrug:

Do most people just not understand what's going on here? If this is repealed - the ramifications are major.

Seems as if you and I plus a few others are keeping track, but not a lot of others. Economic Aristocracy....that's what Reed just called where we're headed. They want to repeal a progressive tax.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1354210

I think that this is an issue we can influence. If people knew that this entire effort to repeal the estate tax was being funded by 18 of the richest families in this country, they would be outraged. Screw the Waltons. They already are reaping huge financial gains from corporate welfare. Let their heirs pay estate taxes.

Tell them you know she's in the back pocket of the Club for Growth. She is NOT a Democrat.

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thread!!

;)

You're right - this needs the same outrage as we had yesterday. It affects every American and their children and grandchildren!

Max Bacus already expressed his support for it, and if that fails, his own compromise bill. According to an editorial I read this morning, the compromise bill stinks too. This bill will benefit 1/2 of one percent of all of those nice rich and super rich people.

affected by it!

Yea, I know, pemanent repeal affects all of us, but really, if it hadn't been in the news because the Senate is going to debate it, would something like that be on YOUR MIND?

Will we be scratching our heads?

:shrug:

to the debt. Conrad said we are now borrowing money from Mexico. How about that?

Unfortunately, I think it IS because estate taxes are part of another world...one that few if any of us live in.

I'm upset about it because I was an accountant for 40+ years, and saving $$, balancing spending with income, etc. is in my every thought, but most people just don't think that way.

and I'm not in the top 1/2 of 1 % of anything.

My aunt died and had more than $ 1 million. Surprised all of us.

She didn't pay any tax because she was deceased. The government got $ 180,000 in estate taxes from the estate though. That means I got a smaller share. So did my brothers and sisters, mother and father, the church, the animal rescue center, the dog adoption center, the World Wildlife Fund.

When people say it only effects the top 1 % it's wrong because it effects the 20-30 heirs and most of them aren't in any top 1 %.

When my aunt died, the exclusion was $ 600,000. That was too low. If she died today, she wouldn't have had to pay because she had less than $ 2 million.

I think a compromise of $ 5 million or so is probably reasonable.

When people say they want to rollback al of Bush's tax cuts, does that mean they want to go back to the $ 600,000 limit? That's just too low in today's world.

The Kennedys and Rockefellers of the world aren't going to pay whatever the rate is because they have their family money locked away in trust funds.

Why feel you have to raise the issue in this aggressive way, with your multiple-question-mark questions? Ratchet it down a little.

about it to prove it to me.

But the very idea of this makes my skin crawl.

& from what I understand its going to be a close vote in the senate.

This would be a windfall giveaway to the ultrarich at the expense
of the rest of us,

Find out how your senators are going to vote-- contact them

big kick on this, c'mon Duers

:dem:

is unconscionable.

Now here comes Blanche Lincoln to support repealing the estate tax. She's also telling the lies about the small farmers and small business leaving their families a terrible tax burden. She's for the stinking compromise bill.

Who will loose their business.

:puke:

I guess there are a lot more "poor" people in this country than we thought.

Even then, the first $4 mill are tax-free.

Will move up to $3.5m in 2009.

A spouse can transfer unlimited at death to spouse without tax.

But when the second spouse dies all over $ 2 million is taxed. So is it $ 2 million or $ 4 million? I'd say $ 2 million unless you hire an estate attorney.

A good friend of mine runs a 70 acre farm just south of Tracy California right now, and I can assure you that it's worth WELL over 2 million dollars (probably closer to 5-8 million). He grows corn on it, the same way his family has done since they bought it back in the 1930's. The property technically belongs to his 85 year old grandfather, and they are very worried about the implications of the estate tax on their ownership of the land when he dies. They own the property outright, but there's no way they can keep it if the tax is levied at the lands assessed value...the real estate market and their proximity to one of the fastest growing cities in the state have driven the value of the land too high. He'll be forced to sell the property, and it will be bought by Pombo or one of the other big real estate investors in that area for future housing developments.

The estate tax laws should be rewritten to exempt family farms, or ONE piece of property, irregardless of the value of the land.

But that is not todays debate. They want to kill the whole thing.

Can't they afford it?

But yes, they do have a lawyer and they are trying to figure out how to transfer it right now without accruing millions of dollars in taxes. It's not an easy feat, however, since most transfers still impose capital gains taxes and force a reassessment which will dramatically increase the property taxes as well.

They're farmers. They sell corn, which isn't a particularly high value crop. I'd say that they probably make about $80-90k a year off the place, which isn't bad but just puts them in the middle class. There is simply no way they could afford a $2-3 million dollar estate tax bill...they would be forced to sell.

and it is the family businesses that do not have thousands of dollars to pay fancy accts that are affected by the tax.

I'll bet you'll get at least some recommendations.

That'll work better

Keep rich kids from killing their parents act.:think:

Lautenberg's poster with the great photos of Paris Hilton and Lee Raymond (he's on the Senate floor right now). As you said, it's an effective tool to equate a repeal of the estate tax with lining the pockets of Paris Hilton so she can shop all day.

5? 5?

the bill. Says the Repubs are using scare tactics.

For myself, in the past year I have called senators on more issues than I can count, with zero results! We live in the world of opposites. Congress will give the wealthy another huge tax cut as the middle class sinks to the bottom of the food chain. Until the middle class wakes up and takes to the streets nothing will change. We are at the point now that even that may not do the trick. Peace, Kim

strongly supporting the repeal of the tax. He says that all these rich people are human beings, and it's their money and not the Government's.

:grr:

Oh brother - wonder who came up with that catchy little phrase. :eyes:

You can send an email on the subject via the link.

http://action.truemajority.org/campaign/taxcuts

around funerals like buzzards waiting to get their money. Man, talk about buzzards.

and grows and grows...

on DU.

It only sparks a flamewar on classism.

The issue does not effect the rich since they have fancy tax shelters to help them avoid the tax already.

And wheres the debate on fixing it if it hurts small businesses?

Instead, lets just ditch the whole thing and replace it with more debt and borrowing from China.

are accused of waging class warfare.

Put this up around your town.

against the estate tax. It was only through the gross accumulation of massive amounts of wealth that the practical argument eventually won out and the country decided to redistribute the wealth. That, however, was decades ago.

This is a lose-lose for us...the pendulum has swung and it will take Rockefeller/Vanderbilt type estates to make it swing back again.

hatred of taxes with the situation of these poor little rich people.

shouldn't have to pay this type of tax. And in the realm of pure theoretics that may be true. But when it effects such a small percentage of us with such great wealth, the public policy argument wins out...at least for me.

Capitalism is great but at its extremes it is dangerous (monopolies, no regulation, massive wealth). We should adhere to it in 95% of cases but I have no problem redistributing the wealth regarding the wealthiest and the poorest within our system.

Besides... Gates Senior and others are pushing back against the repeal. I don't know what makes you think this is a losing issue for us. This appeal will not pass.

because the average american can understand the argument. It keeps voters in the Republican camp. I'm glad that socially minded rich people (Gates) are coming out against it.

However, if the Democrats are going to come out against it, they need to say why...and the reason needs to be more than the deficit.

If you repeat that meme enough, you may hypnotize DU and we may all repeat your GOP talking points for you.

Those estates were ungodly big.

I'll check for numbers.

GDP. Gates' wealth is 1/135 of today's GDP. The site says that Rockefeller had more wealth than the federal budget.

Rockefeller's wealth would be $190 billion in today's dollars. The guy was loaded beyond belief.

We aren't even close to seeing anything like that today.

http://www.scottwinslow.com/2002/wealthy.asp

estate had? However Gates is fighting to keep the estate tax.

I wonder how much do the Walmart children have, combined? They are fighting to get rid of the estate tax.

A decade-long drive to permanently repeal the estate tax is about to come to a head, but proponents are finding it surprisingly difficult to get their political football into the end zone.

The repeal proposal may be an indirect casualty of Hurricane Katrina, which forced Senate leaders to postpone a vote on the plan in September, when hopes it would pass were high.

Now, with the Senate poised to vote as early as this week, even some of the most ardent supporters of estate tax repeal predict they will come up short. Some of them are pushing an alternative that would reduce but not eliminate the tax.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-estatetax4jun04,0,6852939.story?coll=la-home-headlines

I think it is winnable. The repeal of the estate tax will cost the US $1 trillion over the next 10 years. If you pose the question to average Americans as to how the shortfall should be replaced, I think you find that most are against a further tax reduction for the wealthiest Americans.

Because of all the debt that we have created in the US.

Dedicate the estate tax to expand Medicare to cover long term care. Right now we have a life tax - if you live in long term care, you are forced to run through all your assets before Medicare picks up. Given the cost of long term care, the average person runs through their life's savings pretty quickly.

This editorial from today's NY Daily News was posted in the DU Editorials section, it's worth a read,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x215857

as far as the compromises. Gates gets it.

It is extremely surrealistic to think of anyone with enough money who needs to worry about it. Besides, from what I understand the repeal is not going to pass.

Let's get this to the greatest page today

IS there a 5?

I hate to think that threads with no 08 candidate name in them or some teevee silliness in them are uninteresting ... but .......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2662861

Please?

Maybe it's hard to get people excited about giving these shitheads MORE money.

We are seeing an unprecedented transfer of wealth up to an elite few. That is not speculation, it's fact. The elimination of the estate tax is designed to perpetuate that elite, and hence to consolidate their power and their control of the levers of power. The poor have always been with us, and have even occasionally been the subject of at least some recognition that our society is stronger when we provide a safety net and a means toward upward mobility. No more. It's not just the poor or people of color, it's the vast majority of Americans who are losing not just opportunity, but their ability to influence events - including the ballot. For DUers to support the repeal of the "death tax" (read "1984") is for them to throw the burden of funding both war and social programs on others - us. And you know what will be cut to support the other. Ratchet it down? I stand with LSK, who is to be thanked for firing back.

http://www.alternet.org/images/managed/Story+Image_thumb_051006_story1.jpg

:rofl:
:rofl:

But there's not a lot to discuss. It just sucks.

toward repealing the revenue source before the vote.

He seems iffy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1361462&mesg_id=1361462

You'd think that all those folks in the immigration threads that want to build a wall on the border on the pretense of helping working families would be livid that the GOP wants to give a giant tax cut solely to multi-millionaires.

:D

:hi:

:toast: