Will the DUers looking forward to the crash tell me what's good about it?

Unless they're keen on dying, as a crash will mean precisely that for MILLIONS if not ultimately billions, I don't see what good will come about from it.

Especially when such deaths will be anything but quick or pleasant.

I don't look forward to it, we'll all be screwed. Everyone except the uber-wealthy.

But some, presumably for cynical reasons, are cheering for it.

Maybe the crash is the only way to kill this beast without a global nuclear war,
and between that hardship and a post-nuclear wasteland, i vote crash.

The beast is beyond all political control from within. As much as we "have to believe"
poltiical action within the system works, it has never worked, never, for
freeing people from oppression... only rebellions work, and they come out
of political collapse, when people finally pull their heads out of the clouds
and come to their senses.

Look at the conditions it takes to get a proper change of government, that people
are willing to take risks with their lives to defend their rights:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1389599&mesg_id=1397292

Not looking forward to any of it ,but you're correct, economic bust is the lessor of the 2 evils. :scared:

have retired?

From where, do you think, these funds are coming from? From investments either from pension funds - that are disappearing - or from personal investments.

I don't know about you, but we have been working hard to pump as much as we can into retirement accounts. We do not own flat screen TV, own a modest home and drive a 13 year and an 8-year cars.

We have no intention of roaming the streets looking for scrap of food just because you think that the capitalistic system has to collapse.

How are you making a living now? Living at home off mom and pop?

And do you really think that anyone is going to vote for a party that promote such nonsense? Might as well disband the Democratic party and give the freepers and their supporters from the flat earth society the keys to Congress, the Supreme Court and the White House for perpetuity.

Rebirth is usually a painful process, but it happens. When a nation becomes corrupt and no longer functions, it breaks down, and has to be rebuilt again, sometimes from scratch.

If anyone is "cheering" for a crash, they are cheering for the change that would hopefully come of it, not for the suffering it might cause.

(Although I personally wouldn't weep for any of the yuppies leaping from Wall St. windows...) :evilgrin:

One of my business collegues who jumped off the top of WTC1, was an inspired
globalist who believed sincerely that capitalism could uplift the entire world to
rich world living standards by creating open and fair access to capital for all
peoples i all nations. The system is only as evil as the people who drive it,
and the ones who leap, are sometimes the ones with empathy. Wall street is no
longer in 10005, it is all over the world with internet participation, the old
physical paradigm of the street has been displaced by smug fund managers, brokers
across the planet.. and none of them will jump, they are all cynically prepared
for the crash.

That was different.

Jumping because your portfolio is wiped out and you might have to live in a duplex is pathetic.

"The system is only as evil as the people who drive it"


An awful lot of them have been unbelievably evil for so, so long...

Shows how much we are a plutocracy where material wealth is more important than life,
but such is the nature of the temple.

The system is institutionally evil, by the way the open markets committee of the
federal reserve secretely creates credit for a white man's war machine, but in the
name of the public good, and this credit prints money and creates industry and jobs,
all around an endemic soulless race-superiority paradigm as intended by woodrow wilson.

The wall street workers are just upper middle class and middle class people who believe
in the american dream, and the sales pitch of so many big companies to recruit the
best and the smartest to invest their portfolios to get the most rich. that peopple
would kill themselves for failing is so very petty, agreed, but in working on wall
street, i did not know any evil people per se, but people who were so scared and
so desperate to survive, they would enslave others to save their own skins, and
the evils are a side effect of fear, greed and the ususal degenerate human conditions
the rat race puts people to.

they only open 4 inches because? .. kid you not, but balcony's that's the ticket!

I had an "exchange" with a poster here recently who was cheering on global warming and was all excited to watch the show of death and destruction because we all deserve it.

:wtf:

it will touch him or her. The thought of millions dying of starvation, environmental conditions and disease, not to mention warfare horrifies me. I have that sinking feeling I would be one of them. I do not have a sustainable lifestyle. I buy groceries, water and currently rent.

I'm personally rooting for the "hundreth monkey" to wake up and see the need for a cooperative society and we can all leave competition behind. Nationlize the oil, make strict rules for the environment and learn to make stuff from all our garbage and to grow food in a sustainable way. Those things would create new industries left and right.
But of course, in the immortal words of John Lennon, "Some say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..."

I went back to bed and stayed there all day. I know that sounds pathetic, but I was at the end of my rope (diabetes, fibromyalgia, pain, brain fog, chronic fatigue, depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder), anyway. Tacking on the end of the world just put me over the edge. I'm still shaky today.

Maybe go play an FPS? Senseless-but-harmless computerized violence always makes me perk up!

:D

:hug:

I am trying to heal a nasty case of tendonitis (tennis elbow), so piano and FPS shooters are out. I suspect that's part of my problem. Next time I'll warm up the ol' vocal cords whether I feel like it or not.

La la la la la!

On edit: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I love that game (or games, since I own three)...

world figures out they screwed us over.

I used that "soylent green" reference a couple of daysa go.

It's the universal argument :rofl:

Sometimes it seems that those who are forecasting a crash, want to see a crash. I don't think that's always the case.

On the other hand, many followers of global economics and peak oil see a crash as inevitable, as our current direction is unsustainable.

Terms like "die-off" and "demand destruction" come to mind when studying the issues surrounding Peak Oil. For example, Africa is looking more and more like a giant New Orleans, in line for some horrible events in the not-too-distant future.

My perception is that it is governments and corporations that are planning for die-off and demand destruction. We've just been ineffective in taking pro-active steps to deal with what appears to be coming.

that much is clear. Whether mother nature will take care of things herself or she will be helped along, either by accident or collusion is not clear.

looming and no one in congress will address it. I don't think anyone on this board is doing more than poionting out that an economic disaster is out there and very near.

It is not a crash, but a relative correction of the american GDP to the levels of
other peoples on this earth; and that correction to equal-equal is no crash really,
but a final ending to the post ww2 paradigm of the US pax americana/dollar hegemony.

some of us are so freaking tired of fighting the "good fight" while watching others sit around on their flaccid behinds, that we hope that in the event of something earth shattering, said flaccid butts will finally be in enough pain to get out and finally, do something.

And some of us just want to say "told ya so."

In other words, "how bad does it have to get before people will actually do something?" For some the answer is "crash."

If a crash comes, there is nothing we can do about it. So what's wrong with hoping that something good would come of it?

That's worthy of :popcorn:. More so than those tv programs they tune out for. :rofl:

In a society, people work with each other.

In destruction, people are out for themselves.

New Orleans has already proved we're no society.

And society is more than just the government.

It is all encompassing.

I'm probably totally misunderstanding you on that. But my husband and I have been married 12 years, and almost never watch tv. We raise our kids to be concerned about these issues as well, and my 8-year-old knows more about global warming, the Iraq war, and the problems with our food supply than most adults I know.

I do agree that New Orleans showed that in the event of major disaster, we may be totally screwed. Our country seems to only react to such crises with help in the form of Red Cross donations after the fact - which is something, but I don't recall reports of too many people offering to help the less-fortunate in their city escape with them.

yet that meek observation makes us attackers and traitors.

We are all going down in the coming thousand year depression. We don't rejoice in the evil that others have done. We want to save the innocents and prepare for the worst.

the most in any crash. None of us should look forward to a crash. There's got to be a better way.

than anything else. I have a problem with that.

There are also folks (not necessarily here on DU) who hate capitalism in general and America specifically that they yearn to see the system collapse. Those folks are not our friends.

If there is an economic crash similar to the Depression, once again it is the poorest among us who will suffer the most: the elderly, mothers with children, the sick and disabled.

I am anti-capitalist and pro-American (as in the American democratic experiment and Americans as human beings). I would like to see ths system collapse. But not in a "shock and awe" type of way.

but not in a shock and awe type of way, you are really saying you would like to see the system change and more closely mirror your political beliefs.

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with working towards it, either. You are not the type of person I was describing.

if so then you appreciate something that came out of the last one, FDR's package to save capitalism would never have happened were it not for the fear of burgeoning communist/union movements during the last depression.

you don't have to wish for an event to appreciate what the event brought.

because I am basically illiterate about political systems.

But people who want our economy to collapse are our enemies.

You are correct, that once something has happened, then use it. Like New Orleans. Now that it is gone, build it better. But don't hope that it is destroyed.

I don't believe you are that sort of person, either.

The past year in health care has brought about a cut in half, of hours for pay, and although gasoline prices have more than doubled since starting in 2001, all mileage for care of clients has been discontinued! Care of the disabled and elderly seems to be going the way they were treated in NOLA!
All should be aware that there are still a few survivors around that can help with survival of any crash, be it national or world financial, or even a political uprising!
Books are written and those who read and learn will be the new survivors!

market goes down.. but hell stocks have done really well in the last bit.. so chances are people will come out ahead of where they were.

As to middle class crash.. well stocks going down is not good for savings.. but the employment market will increase (unlike under Bush) because the baby boomers will be retiring.

I think it is a little unfair to imply that a crash will hurt everyone. Part of the inflation will be people getting jobs.. which didn't happen under Bush.. so the stock market will have to adjust. Now the stock market has had 3 year run. Time for other parts of the economy to have a chance to get ahead.

As to bankrupcies.. they happen already all the time.. called health care problem in the USA. So, really, people are crashing all the time in the USA. And they have been since Bush got to power.

When the dot com bubble went down.. people dealth with it..those that were lucky enough to have made some money. And people had been working in an economy that shared its success with the middle class. So on the whole..people were better off after Clinton than before. And their children were better off because he paid off the debt.

So to say that the crash will come.. is likely not true. Inflation will be a sign that the stock market has to sacrifice for once. And everyone else has been since Bush got to power. So..I mean.. taxes.. people in the stock market have made more money through not paying taxes as ever before.

Please.. don't be so vague. A "crash" will only annoy the only people have benefitted considerably and financially from the Bush WH.

But if you want to create fear in these people who have not sacrificed one bit and only benefitted from Bush(workers have sacrificed a great deal with outsourcing no?) go ahead. Ups and downs are reality. Everyone else has to deal with them. Ups and downs are life.

Why wouldn't the people who have suffered under Bush and sacrificed their job or salary to globalism.. say.. hey... see how it feels? Life ain't perfect..even for you.

But of course the GOP will characterize a stock market bear as some horrid transgression on the lives of the wealtlhy.. who have not sacrificed at all during this time of war and seen their tax cuts go to keep the stock market booming.. while the equality in the country is trashed. While the mass of the workers have had to adjust pretty fast and furiously to changing jobs over the last 20 years.

Of course.. if you cannot have everything "just so" you should vote Repuke. Cause markets (with their ups and downs) are for everyone else. You - you are gods. Nothing touches you. You should have endless wealth.. and live in a society like Venezuela or Mexico where the walls that are built are not on the border.. but around your house.. cause kidnapping is growing industry. Or Russia where "corporates" rule using murder and death. Cause that is where the USA is placed on the scale of equality these days.. under Bush.

i certainly don't see one on the horizon.
where are you getting your info?

let's keep it that way, and we'll all have a good time."

Your question is irrelevant. Sort of like asking "What's good about tornadoes?, or "What if an asteroid hits the earth?"

The American Empires crash will be a long, drawn out, and painful affair. The economic power won't so much evaporate as shift to the more dynamic economies of Asia and Eastern Europe.

The very best we can do (if that's the way to look at it) is slow down the decline a bit.

I don't welcome it as much as see it as inevitable.

I know people who lived through the great depression. They explained to me that at the beginning people who were out of work still had to pay the same prices for food, utilities, etc. that the wealthy could afford to pay.

The prices for these life sustaining needs only came down when there was so many people out of work no one could afford to buy anything any more and the prices had to come down for everyone.

That is the way it was explained to me any way.

Don't know how much truth there is to that notion? I wasn't around back then. But it kind of makes sense. I am no economist though.

Don

My father was a harness maker in a small farming community western South Dakota town and because people could not afford to run their tractors they went back to farming with horses. Some of the more successful farmers still used tractors. This change worked out pretty well for our family, but this was mostly due to my father's versatile abilities. There is still a lot of safety in being able to provide a critical service in times of great need.

The problem that I see today is most people depend exclusively on experts to do everything rather than broadening their own range of being able to do it themselves. There is a real danger in being that way.

One big downside to the possible depression repeat is kids immediately notice what real survival skills are and it even gets harder to convince them that school is where it's at. I could see that my father had something special and that the teachers, who acted as though they knew what it was all about, could not have competed with his third grade education. Common sense was highly regarded not only in my mind, but by people in general.

FDR set up free surplus commodity distribution centers where destitute families could get free food. My Mother was a Republican and she hated FDR and all of his programs to keep people from starving to death. My Father who was the actual main productive contributer for our family was a Democrat and in sympathy with the poor.

lost not only common sense but survival skills...we are all so used to convenience in our "throw away" culture.

The depression hit the South and Midwest so hard...folks in the big cities did better because there were still some jobs to be had...but it was very hard and folks learned to conserve and make do or do without.

I don't see many folks these days understanding how hard that would be to do these day. But, who knows.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I was in business for my self as a General Contractor in California. I fixed my own equipment and enjoyed doing it.

isn't only once source of capital (the west) anymore.
Depression was horrible. And those that had anything.. say if they lived on a farm so they didn't have to go begging cause they could always eat...they say and said and would say again... "nobody should have to beg & be humiliated to feed their families - nobody should".

All this talk of a crash & inflation is simply.. the stock market that has to pay with "slow downs" if there is inflation. So far the Bush admin has avoided that by keeping the middle class out of full employment (so no aggreagate inflation). Boomers will be retiring and jobs will be plenty in the decades to come. For young people. Which will cause inflation and everyone will have to fight inflation together LIKE THEY DID UNDER CLINTON.

Depression is not a reality (at least long term depression). Because we know how to get out of it. GOVERNMENT SPENDING even if it means debt.

Question is what sort of government spending? Wars abroad as neocons would have it (where corporations get the money). Or social spending where money goes to education and the middle class.. or creating a bigger middle class.

Unemployment peaked at just under 25% in 1933 which means about 75% of Americans were working even through the worst of times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_the_United_States

Middle class survival

However, a large percentage of the American middle class was able to survive the ordeal. Those in professions where skills and jobs were considered "depression proof" (government positions, teachers in well-funded districts, doctors, lawyers, etc.) continued to work. Daily life was made more secure if these workers had little debt before the stock market crash, had liquid savings and generally lived without overt extravagances. Middle class households managed to get through the economic depression by adapting to conditions, spending wisely and avoiding unnecessary purchases.

His father was the NJ state inspector of bridges and had a job. They lived in a very close small town and he said that his mom invited close to 10 people a night for dinner because people were starving. They took in two children from a family with too many mouths to feed and my father considered them his brothers the rest of his life.

Those must have been interesting time. I am told my grandmother learned to make spaghetti for the first time because it was so cheap!

My mother, on the other hand, was a child in Florida. Her parents were divorced and she lived with her father who was gone most of the time chasing construction jobs. She was ten years old and raised her five year old brother alone. She worked at a candy factory in Jacksonville to support them. She also managed to be valedictorian of her class, but it was given to the next girl down because my mother was from the wrong side of the tracks.

She got a scholarship to Alabama, met my dad, and here I am!

terrible and if you talk to people who were adults at the time.. even if they still could buy meant.. they were buying an extra cut for family and friends. Or, like my grandfather a country doctor, they were foregoing being paid for a decade, and getting people to help them hay or such.. to pay for medicines (because that 1/4 who had no jobs were desperate to not be humiliated).

Nobody, even the middle class who were used to making some savings, made anything. Then they went to war and again.. nobody made any money. So for the middle class who didn't loose their jobs, the depression and the war was a time when time stood still, their neighbours and friends and families & clients suffered, they shared what they could, and they ended up no further ahead in terms of owning their homes, or savings, than they had been in 1929. But they didn't complain because they saw so many who were so worse off than them. My grandmother was widowed in the early 1950s.. and there was absolutely no money left from her husband, a country doctors estate - nothing. Just a whole pile of IOUs. She turned into a travelling nurse in order to put her two daughters through college. She worked until she was 82 as a housekeeper (on two canes by the end) to make enough money to retire.

And their back doors were always open. Because again.. the humiliation was so bad that nobody expected anyone would come begging for food for their families by the front.

You really need to talk to people who were adults then.

The governments of the time had no understanding how government spending by debt would pull an economy out of depression. What is the aggregate amount of humiliation, hunger, desperation, etc. that comes with a decade of desperately trying to feed your family for those years. And years and years and years?

Sure a depression rate of 1% isn't going to destroy everyone's job. It may piss the rich in the stock market off - but on the whole it would look like a short recession. We have the tools now to keep any recession at 1% max. Cause we know to intervene with government spending till the economy once again starts to grow and then pay off that debt.

But we are talking a depression of 8% for a decade. They were horrible times.

Some people amaze me at their selfishness and stupidity.

I'm not looking forward to any crash. I hope our economy thrives.

If you mean it'll be condusive to supporting the majority of Americans, sure.

If it means everyone rots except the scum at the top, I can fathom why some would be so cynical. They have a point, though it's a depressing one.

on the back of the exploited in your own country and more so throughout the third world, it CAN NOT keep growing without this, to support continued "growth" is to support the looting of the poor and the wars that enable that.

Do you also live in a country that thrives on the back of the poor? Do you want its economy to crash as well?

,...those "have" moreso that the "havenots" because the "havenots" have learned ways to survive economic oppression.

Rural America wasn't impacted nearly as badly as the upper middle and rich during the depression because they knew how to sustain the basics: food, clothing and shelter ON THEIR OWN. Moreover, basic life was far more valuable to rural Americans than those who had, well, addicted themselves to "stuff" and a relatively (physical) easy life-style.

I believe that, without the experience of living a particular situation (in this case, abject poverty), there is no WAY any kind of understanding or empathy is developed. So, in a sense, another "crash" would be a positive thing bringing about precisely the understanding that led to a "caring and compassion deal" with America.

:shrug:

On the other hand, I've never been rich,...so, I have little understanding of their attachments and "games" and absence of empathy towards others. I'd like to know what it's like to be economically secure (which does, in fact, bring greater freedom and power) before I leave this existence. I would like to believe I'd remain the compassionate, seeking to empower rather than oppress kinda' person I am. I actually believe I'd really piss off the wealthy IF economic security were miraculously poured upon me. *LOL*

When I buy my $3 lotto ticket, twice a month (the only entertainment expense for me), each time, I have the most amazing imaginations and dreams,...and they differ with every ticket. *LOL*

Back on topic, during the depression, it wasn't impoverished people committing suicide or jumping off building or whatnot. It was those whose lives were built upon money: not meaning, not the basic value of life, not any believe in their own fundamental value. I just wish when that shit happens, only the "evil/unethical/amoral" assholes were the ones to loose it all. Has it ever worked that way? I don't think so.

IMO there is going to be a reckoning. A really bad-ass reckoning. I think that the higher we climb up this ladder of fake numbers and phoney prosperity the harder we will fall. The sooner the fall, the shorter the fall, the quicker the recovery.

Julie

the people in power are always blamed for the 'crash" rightly or wrongly. a declining economy bodes ill for the republicnas and well
for democrats. It would be the opposite also.

"its the economy, stupid"

Msongs
www.msongs.com
batik & digital art
put your pics on shirts!

:shrug: I haven't seen anyone and I read the DU Marketeer Site in LBN daily.

Warning of a crash to alert people and pointing out how the Repugs have us going to Hell in a Market Basket is not the same as folks wishing for a crash or saying it will be good.

I didn't take precise notes (I'm not Agent Mike) and it'd take forever to go back through a month's worth of posts by people.

Those who have said it did so in the context of a response; because they think people will revolt when it happens. (no, people won't... and I'm not sure there will be a crash either and I've said so in the past, when not letting my emotion get the better of me and saying there will be - usually as a kneejerk reaction to mainstream media whining about the stock market)

You make the call-out: "Will the DUers looking forward to the crash" but when asked who they are you write: "Nobody consistently. Not many either. I didn't take precise notes..."

That's really weak. If you are going to accuse people of some behaviour, at least cite an example.

Please understand that I usually enjoy reading your posts and I really enjoy your sig images (I'm a big Blake's 7 and Dr. Who fan). My criticism is based on a general dislike for unfounded claims.

if you di i am sure it is the minority

what kind of link are you lookin for?

...doesn't mean we think there is anything good about it. We are simply stating facts that hiding one's head in the sand does not change. Neither does ignorance of the facts. Did you know that the Russians just this week dumped 80 BILLION in US dollars to buy gold, AND on top of that they are starting to trade for oil in rubbles, NOT the petro-dollar ($), which for the past fifty years has been THEE reserve currency that nations of the world used to buy oil. If the US dollar is no longer needed to buy oil, no country on earth will want to finance the US's debt by buying their assests( which is basically how we finance our budget deficit). When other countries no longer do that, the US can NO longer borrow at the astronomical rate it's doing now, and that will inevitably lead to a crash. Our economic predicament is compounded by the fact that most countries DESPISE dumbya and he has pissed off so many of them that they want to retaliate by trading for oil in Euros or their own currencies. The value of the dollar has plunged since 2000 and nations that have spent trillions buying our debt now want to cut their loses by dumping US dollars for gold or other assests. Our economy will tank if they do that because we will not be able to finance our growing budget and trade deficits without foreign investments in our bond market because we have lost our manufacturing base to cheap overseas labor markets. Add to that the influx of illegal aliens and you have a prescription for a financial holocaust.

Don't blame the messenger, which appears to be what you are doing. Blame the "resident" in cheif, congress and their corporate paymasters. And stock up of some gold and silver yourself if you can afford it. Once the petro-dollar is kicked to the curb, we'll have conditions resembling the third world in this country. Better get used to it. The tide has already turned, and dumbya was surely the last nail in the coffin of the US economy.

They are the ones who lose it all when a "correction" happens. You folks are just makin the rich richer.

Its not if the correction will happen , but how soon itll happen .

I am aware that it's inevitable.

...when the driver is pissed off and takes the turns a little too fast, and a group of kids lean towards the outside in hopes that the bus will roll over.

... we cannot fix this mess until it is an ash heap. It's not that difficult a concept to understand. I'm not "cheering" for it, I merely see it as inevitable, and am looking for the silver lining.

America will have to hit rock bottom before the people wake up and clean up this unholy mess that's been made of our government.

Other than that, not much good will come from it.
:sarcasm:

And of course he is for a weak dollar when the US owes 9 trillion of them to China. The bottom line is that we can not continue to have a culture of debt in our country. We should promote a balanced budget. We should be discouraging teenagers and young adults from using credit cards. We should do alot of things to promote real economic growth. Right now, the US economy is backed by nothing more than its military. Thats not healthy. Let us say that GDP growth begins to decline. The US will be in alot of trouble because of the deficits this administration is running. I am against the crash, I am for fiscal responsibility. We need to elect candidates that have sound policies on budgeting and finance - this is rare.

as someone who mentioned "creative destruction" in a previous post, it's a concept that all this is just part of the cycle of existence. create, preserve, destroy. all 3 -- and yes, this is a hard, profound concept for many to get -- cause death, and such death will be anything but quick or pleasant. BUT, the process must continue endlessly otherwise all will be lost.

so, will the crash be a bad thing? yes.
will the crash be a good thing? also, yes.
will people die from the crash, some slowly and painfully? again, yes.
but are people dying now, slowly and painfully? yes, as well.

the system has calcified into a state where the discontent is rapidly outweighing the contentment. it will reach a critical stage where it will have to correct itself. the correction will be painful, just as EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS. but the future brings hope, brings opportunity, brings a chance for a newer system to bring greater contentment to the people. it too will eventually calcify and construct its own demise.

life is pain. life is joy. life just is. but it must always go forward through the cycle. so do not fear, embrace, for a new opportunity, like it always does, is coming. what it takes with it and what it leaves behind needed to go through the cycle anyways, so relax and apply what positive energy you can to make the most of what comes.

Why on Earth would anyone look forward to a crash? The only silver lining would be the final death knell of Reaganomics...but we'd be in a knee-deep river of shit for a better part of a generation.

It took some time to unwind the excesses of the late 1990s and now the stock market trades at a valuation of 15x forward earnings, which is historically very low and almost unheard of in the past 20 years. This year will probably be difficult, but five years from now, the stock market will be much much higher than it is today.

For one thing, asset prices are nowhere near as inflated as they were in 1929. For another, the banking system is in much better condition and much more heavily regulated so that they can't hold stocks and real estate as reserves and they must hold certain quantities of reserves and there is deposit insurance so that runs on the banks are simply an artifact of history and will never happen again. Another thing is that we know now that you don't raise tariffs through the roof during the early stages of an economic downturn, or ever for that matter. The central banks all around the world also know that whenever we have a liquidity squeeze like what happened at the start of the Great Depression that we must flood the economy with liquidity through open market purchases of government securities to increase banks' reserves and lower interest rates to lessen the economic blows.

My friends, the Great Depression was an abnormal event in the history of pre-Keynesian depressions as it was because all the right things came together to cause it and all of the wrong policies were put in place all over the world the exasperate it. The entire field of modern economics has been devoted to stopping it from ever happening again and when you look at the record since 1933, there have been recessions and financial crises, but never again have we seen an old style financial meltdown in the developed world. We will probably have a recession as the housing market unwinds and the Federal Reserve attempts to undo the small rise in inflation that is in progress right now, but an economic collapse will not happen. It is not likely, probable, or inevitable.

start more wars to prop themselves up.

same as it ever was

never heard anybody say that.

:shrug: