Why is it that U.S. citizens are FORBIDDEN to see flag-draped coffins

yet our televisions are inundated with pictures of dead middle eastern men??

We are governed by the scum of the earth.

That was easy. Got anything harder? ;-)

bunch of misfits uses. Show an American prisoner on Al Jazeera...the sky is falling, it is against the Geneva conventions. Show a dead American same response. But the Geneva conventions only apply to the Iraqis when they take pictures, not when they are imprisoned, captured, dead. This framed photo is beyond the pale.

dead middle eastern men look good for the shrub and dead americans don't! :mad:

People would sit and watch TV to see newscasts of flag draped coffins, villages napalmed, little children on fire, etc. The majority of Americans were outraged over these imagines and turned against the war.

* didn't want that to happen this time. Unfortunately, for him, public opinion turned against Iraq "war" without that anyway. I have, however, seen very gruesome pictures in PRINT media; from soldiers' charred corpses hanging from bridges, to blooded Iraqi children, to sobbing fathers holding the corpses of their dead sons and daughters. People can identify more with our own soliders and ordinary foreign citizens, especially little children, as opposed to some dead enemy "military" leader.

Can you now see why our controlled media is blocking this?

When journalists...nevermind.

Life magazine was quite big back then. From memory of this subject, I think the first was D-day. Which of course was long after all the fallin Americans in the south pacific.

Actually Iwo Jima had more casulties then D-day

coffins coming home, the support for the war will drop... Even further than it already has.

It is a back-door draft. If they didn't do all that, they would HAVE TO bring back the draft. Even hawks start taking to the street when their own kids face fire.

That's the only lesson Bush and Co. learned from Vietnam: the importance of controlling the media. When images of dead American soldiers appear on the nightly news, people start to question what they are dying for. And in a war built on lies, there is no convincing answer.

and catapult the propaganda.

US citizens are not FORBIDDEN to see flag-draped coffins. I've seen them in person and on TV.

>>> Since March 2003, a newly-enforced military regulation has forbidden taking or distributing images
of caskets or body tubes containing the remains of soldiers who died overseas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A55816-2003Oct20¬Found=true

Curtains Ordered for Media Coverage of Returning Coffins

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, October 21, 2003; Page A23

Since the end of the Vietnam War, presidents have worried that their military actions would lose support
once the public glimpsed the remains of U.S. soldiers arriving at air bases in flag-draped caskets.

To this problem, the Bush administration has found a simple solution:
It has ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography
of dead soldiers' homecomings on all military bases.

In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases.

"There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of,
deceased military personnel returning to or departing
from Ramstein airbase or Dover base,
to include interim stops," the Defense Department said,
referring to the major ports for the returning remains.

A Pentagon spokeswoman said the military-wide policy actually dates from about November 2000
-- the last days of the Clinton administration --
but it apparently went unheeded and unenforced,
as images of caskets returning from the Afghanistan war appeared on television broadcasts
and in newspapers until early this year.
Though Dover Air Force Base, which has the military's largest mortuary, has had restrictions
for 12 years, others "may not have been familiar with the policy,"
the spokeswoman said.

This year, "we've really tried to enforce it."

President Bush's opponents say he is trying to keep the spotlight off the fatalities in Iraq.
"This administration manipulates information and takes great care to manage events,
and sometimes that goes too far," said Joe Lockhart,
who as White House press secretary joined President Bill Clinton at several ceremonies
for returning remains.
"For them to sit there and make a political decision because this hurts them politically
-- I'm outraged."

Pentagon officials deny that. Speaking on condition of anonymity, they said the policy
covering the entire military followed a victory over a civil liberties court challenge
to the restrictions at Dover and relieves all bases of the difficult logistics of assembling
family members and deciding which troops should get which types of ceremonies.

One official said only individual graveside services, open to cameras at the discretion
of relatives, give "the full context" of a soldier's sacrifice.
"To do it at several stops along the way doesn't tell the full story and isn't representative,"
the official said.

A White House spokesman said Bush has not attended any memorials or funerals for soldiers
killed in action during his presidency...

-------------------------------
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/
snip-->
"Immediately after hearing about this, I filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the following:

All photographs showing caskets (or other devices) containing the remains of US military
personnel at Dover AFB.
This would include, but not be limited to, caskets arriving, caskets departing,
and any funerary rites/rituals being performed.
The timeframe for these photos is from 01 February 2003 to the present.

I specified Dover because they process the remains of most, if not all,
US military personnel killed overseas.
Not surpisingly, my request was completely rejected. Not taking 'no' for an answer,
I appealed on several grounds, and—to my amazement—the ruling was reversed.
The Air Force then sent me a CD containing 361 photographs of flag-draped coffins
and the services welcoming the deceased soldiers.

Score one for freedom of information and the public's right to know."

Military Coffins: The Photos You're Not Supposed to See


Edited to Add:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB152/index.htm

Return of the Fallen
PENTAGON RELEASES HUNDREDS MORE WAR CASUALTY HOMECOMING IMAGES
(after losing another lawsuit)
"Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005 -

In response to Freedom of Information Act requests and a lawsuit, the Pentagon this week released hundreds of previously secret images of casualties returning to honor guard ceremonies from the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and other conflicts, confirming that images of their flag-draped coffins are rightfully part of the public record, despite its earlier insistence that such images should be kept secret.

One year after the start of a series of Freedom of Information Act requests filed by University of Delaware Professor Ralph Begleiter with the assistance of the National Security Archive, and six months after a lawsuit charging the Pentagon with failing to comply with the Act, the Pentagon made public more than 700 images of the return of American casualties to Dover Air Force Base and other U.S. military facilities, where the fallen troops received honor guard ceremonies. The Pentagon officially refers to the photos as "images of the memorial and arrival ceremonies for deceased military personnel arriving from overseas." Many of the images show evidence of censorship, which the Pentagon says is intended to conceal identifiable personal information of military personnel involved in the homecoming ceremonies.

Begleiter's lawsuit is supported by the National Security Archive and the Washington, D.C. office of the law firm Jenner & Block. "This is an important victory for the American people, for the families of troops killed in the line of duty during wartime, and for the honor of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country," said Begleiter, a former CNN Washington correspondent who teaches journalism and political science at the University of Delaware.

"This significant decision by the Pentagon should make it difficult, if not impossible,
for any U.S. government in the future to hide the human cost of war from the American people."

I could have sworn I was really there when we held a serviceman's funeral at my church and when TV news showed up to videotape it. And I must have been dreaming later when I saw the news item showing the "flag draped coffin" that I was apparently forbidden to see.

You seem to have a strong belief that "U.S. citizens are FORBIDDEN to see flag-draped coffins...". But when beliefs and actual reality are in conflict, beliefs have to give way. At least for rational people.

about the lawsuit???

Freedom of Information Lawsuit Removes Secrecy for Flag-Draped Casket Ceremonies
Chronology of DOD Policy on Images of the Honors Provided to American Casualties
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB152/index.htm

If it wasn't for the lawsuit, nothing would be in the newspaper!

So I'm in a quandary. One the one hand, you and catwoman tell me that "citizens are FORBIDDEN to see flag-draped coffins". And on the other hand I, a citizen, have seen with my own eyes news stories on TV showing the flag-draped coffins of servicemen killed in Iraq. I guess it's a question of who I'm going to believe, you or my lying eyes.

So why are you being obtuse about it?

This censorship over dead american troops is atrocious, and you're playing silly games.

Rather I think that I am rebutting what is at best a wildly exaggerated claim - that no coverage of deceased servicemen is being permitted at all. Read the opening post of this thread and you will have to conclude that was the clear, unambiguous meaning of the words used.

Perhaps this is the wrong place for reasoned, rational debate and discussion of the Iraq war and the way it is being conducted. However; if Democrats want to have a reasonable chance to win the debate they will have to learn to conduct a public discussion in a rational manner. Making claims that are easily refuted and obviously wrong is a sure-fire way to persuade the persuadable that you are not worth listening to. It may be cathartic to shriek about what we are "FORBIDDEN" to do, but baseless claims rarely convince anyone to change their views.

I'm sorry that an appeal to truthfulness over hyperbole seems to upset so many people here. I would have thought that honest debate would be a hallmark of DU and Democrats in general. Perhaps I set my sights too high.

I'll let this be my last post on this thread.

you apparently are not aware of the laws of your own land.

talking about someone not being rational.

did you not read the news stories posted above?

;)

and perhaps the lack of reading skills?

saw a couple at funerals. The ban is showing the caskets on arrival stateside. I have seen the caskets on TV when the local news covers a serviceman's funeral.

loves dead ME men?

seems that way

I remember a local state senator in Arkanas made a statement that got reported about Iraq:

"I think they should just bomb the whole place, pave it over, and put up an amusement park."

that's "liberation" of Iraqis, right?

The * Administration runs on stupid. The less information we have, and the more heavily regulated the resulting discourse, the better for the war pigs.

:eyes:

If we show the real horrors, dead people, it would put the kiddies off their dinner.

all draped beneath the flag, rotting and fetid,
a stench replaced the flesh another child of war,
more lies cover the flag, black of darkness greeted,
secret hidden crime speaking louder than before.

Heartfelt beating life, pounded in to dust,
bullets spread from strife, looks to kill some more,
crying weeping wife, grasping at the crust,
long consumed dead hubby, casualty of war.

Corporate angry men launched the violent lies,
coffin makers spin, arms trade men deplore,
murder deep in sin, the purpose binding ties,
grasping greed the root, junkie wants some more.
Pain of lost good life, captured in a box,
expecting loathsome strife, no television mocks.

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MY EYES!!!

My pupils were just hit with by a bunch of gobbedy gook, terribly laid out, and full of spelling errors.

:scared:

hold me!!!

he's a nam era 'vet', doncha know?

You only see dead people on the other side.

accepts all the pain and suffering himself. He doesn't want the American people to shoulder the burden. Likewise, VP Cheney and Halliburton are carrying the financial burden. You need not worry about the pain and suffering your money could create for you. They are pocketing that burden.

:hi:

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Or what EXACTLY happened on 9/11. Or who killed RFK. Or why there was an assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. Or who exactly sold weapons to Iran in the 80's. Or what phone companies were involved in the wire tapping scandal and if our accounts were personally affected. And so on and so on.

Secrecy in the government is nothing new.

i guess with recognition comes trolls:shrug::rofl:

I'm one of the DUers the Morans love to hate :D

We must be in the same club! lol