Using Karl Rove as a Dem Strategist

Karl Rove is never surprised by what the Dems do. That's because our leaders always do what Rove either wants or expects them to do.

Kerry is swiftboated. Rove expects Kerry to "argue with the fools," creating confusion as to who really is the fool. Kerry goes one further and decides to let the media argue with the fools. That's a minor deviation from Rove's strategy. Kerry's lame attempt to remain above the fray is actually better for Bush than Rove planned and well within the envelope of Rove's strategy.

To beat Rove on this, Kerry needed but failed to do something surprising to Rove.

So one of these days, I would like to see Dems make a move that would surprise Rove. All we have to do is think of what Rove wants or expects us to do and then do something else.

I'll give you another example, this Zarqawi thing. Couldn't the Dems have used the Zarqawi killing to beat up on Bush? Based on past experience, Rove would expect us to applaud the troops. He might even expect us to try the lame "Can you bring the troops home now?" We did both of those. Check.

But what if a Dem leader had said "Well, I expect the Bush Administration to make a big deal of this, but Zarqawi wouldn't have been Zarqawi without the war Bush started. The war made a name for Zarqawi. He strengthened Al-Qaeda in Iraq. We don't usually pat people on the back for putting out a fire they themselves started, so the Bush Administration should spare us the victory romp for once. We've seen that too many times before, and it never turns out to mean anything except to them. Congratulations to the troops on getting their man."

Then, we could have gone into greater detail about the mixed blessing of the "win" in killing Zarqawi. We can't do that now, because we have already locked ourselves into Rove's expected response. So Rove wins this one. But it could have been a rallying point for the Dems and the truth about the war.

Evidently the Dem leaders do not either. Why can't the Dems take information and use it in such a way to help us. Is Rove the only person who thinks like this?

Only I called it the Monkey shitting on the carpet and having to clean up his own mess!!!

And so, everyone stands and cheers for the clever monkey, who knows how to pick up his own poop! Clever, clever Monkey!

Wouldn't it be better if the Monkey didn't poop on the carpet in the first place?

....20/20 hide sight is one thing.

Now if you could just outsmart Karl Rove and others by coming up with some of this ahead of time. I'm sure any and all Liberal political figures would love hearing from you when/if that day comes.

We've already been through Zarqawi with the capture of Saddam and the killings of Uday and Qusay. Those should have strengthened us enough to risk being a bit skeptical. The "hindsight is 20/20" business is used to excuse far, far too much. Anticipating Zarqawi's likely capture/killing didn't take a crystal ball. (Thank God he wasn't captured!)

Anyway, the point of the thread was not to outsmart Rove but to use his own smarts against him. If I think Rove would approve of a Dem response or especially that the response is consistent with something Rove would like, I question the response. I question that we are forced to give that response by political reality. Too much has gone wrong under Bush for me to say that everyone is doing their job and the failures are only failures to anticipate. I'm just saying that if you notice Rove tapping his foot to the music you're playing, you're playing the wrong music.

.....you don't try to forewarn our Liberal brothers/sisters or at the very least help them avoid some of the issues you raise. I'm sure every liberal in America could benefit from your points/advice.

Even if you are messing with me. I crave attention.

That's all we have to do. The idea that we're going to lose voters for doing so is more bullshit framing of theirs, and it's kept us acting like wussies and losing again and again. We couldn't have more ammunition against these lying fucking criminal traitors, yet our party is doing so little about it (with a few notable exceptions) that we celebrate someone suggesting they might be mistaken. We should be shoving their fucking faces in their lies until they choke on it, then casting them into the streets for the mob that should be demanding it.

is just what I was thinking.

They're going to cling to whatever seems to be the most conservative (in the original sense of the word) line. Make no waves. Don't attact attention. Pretend you aren't even there and nobody will sling mud in your direction (after all, it's well known that Democrats can't survive a little mud or effectively counter negative rhetoric**).

**There is some truth in this--both for an apparent lack of rhetorical skills and for the fact that they can't get fair coverage in the media (and that is a serious problem, but one that won't go away by pretending to have the same pattern as the wallpaper).

They will be hanging on to every string as they're going over the cliff.

The Z incident will come up over and over in debates. All we have to do is say, well that's very interesting. Only one problem. The Pentagon drew up plans in 2002 when they knew right where Mr. Z was and wanted to kill him. But Bush said no, let's let him get established real good in Iraq, let him kill and threaten and terrorize for 2 or 3 years first. Then we'll waste billions of Americans money trying to find him again, after we've got a war started. And after Iraq is in civil war wanting our troops dead.

Yes, that sounds like the man I want to brag about killing the man he was 4 years late in killing.

We should be "stomping their guts out" on this, but it's been very tame.

http://www.slate.com/id/2108880
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601

Maybe we'll see this issue raised in a few days after the MSM tires of the photo death mask and underwear rumors. I haven't had a lot of luck betting on Dem leaders "holding their fire" to date. I hope it's a slow news week and the MSM gets their hands on some leaks.

and it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. It will be the one thing the pukes will try to flaunt in the debates because they got nothing else.

This will be the time to annihilate them. When it's one on one and they can't get away from the facts that they should be ashamed, not pounding their chest. This is the time. People won't even start paying attention until a month before the election.

That's when we :nuke: em with this outrage. We can turn them into a laughing stock.