Stop talking about goddamn troop withdrawal! They are NEVER coming back!

It's a dishonest argument!

"When will they come home?"
"Sooner or later?"
"We the Congress demand a timetable for withdrawal."

Enough! We are building 14 permanent bases in Iraq. Per-ma-nent. This is no secret. Everyone knows this. So why is everyone wondering when we'll bring our troops home? I don't get it. They are never coming home. Not in our lifetime most likely.

We can talk about ending military operations, but talking about when the troops are leaving Iraq is a bullshit debate. THEY ARE NEVER LEAVING. EVER.

...one flag-draped box at a time.

...and not while Israel runs U.S. Middle Eastern policy.

I Hope it is not someone who b believes in the WingNutz fantasy that we will prevail in Iraq and use it to be our base from which to project AmeriKKKan power.

to stay here and fight for change.

Redstone

The point I was and am making to the OP is that by buying into their world view they are complicit. If you are fighting I salute you.

Sorry, but I cringe whenever I see "Amerika" or "AmeriKKKa." That's just my opinion, and of course I'm not going to tell you what to do or not do, but I still believe it's an insult.

Redstone

Rights. I am insulted every time the corporate controlled media pushes their twisted world view as having any semblance of reality.

You should be offended as well.

The problem to my mind is not that I label what they are doing as AmeriKKKA; the problem is what the fascist thugs are doing.

Keep up the fight to oppose them.
Do not be fooled into fighting naming what they are doing.
Keep on fighting them.

then your intent would be more clear.

Redstone

from which to project PNAC's AmeriKKKan power.
Happ now?

Redstone

I don't think most of us have dellusions that we'll be leaving entirely. Hell, we're still in Germany.

home, barring some "Bush on the road to Damascus" experience, is that Congress eventually will refuse to continue passing the supplemental appropriations necessary to keep them in the field.

N.B. Congress finally used its "power of the purse" to bring about total disengagement from southeast Asia, albeit 20 years too late.

Viet Nam; 98% of our people were already home.

What it did was gut the ARVN, and give the NVA the South on a platter.

Redstone

the history of that time are that congressional threats to cut off appropriations accelerated Nixon's "Vietnamization" policy (itself morally questionable, btw). Unfortunately, I'm at work right now, so can't source that (and I may in fact be wrong -- if so, apologize in advance).

As for "handing the NVA the South on a platter," I think that is a highly dubious and questionable interpretation of what transpired. The fact is that Nixon in '72 settled in Paris for exactly the same terms he and Kissinger could have had in Jan. '69. Are you disputing the right of the Vietnamese to be unified under the leadership of the North?

All these fairytales about troop withdrawals.
My son is a Marine who was in boot camp at Parris Island when we invaded Iraq. At that time, people told me, "Oh, good. He won't have to go. It will be over by the time he's out of infantry training."
Then, he finished infantry training and went to Okinawa. Again, I was told "he won't have to go to Iraq. It will be over."
Well, two tours in Iraq later, he'll be going back for a third tour in early 2007.
And I've been told repeatedly, before both tours (don't you love that word?) not to worry "because it's a lot better over there now."
People have no clue. They really don't.
And I'm always asked, "doesn't it frustrate him that the "good news" isn't reported more?"
No. He's frustrated by the reality of the bad news.

For how long? That is anyone's guess...

Unless you intend on doing nothing to get them all back. That's a fact too... stiffling people from talking about it seems odd to me.

They never intend to give that up.

What do the following have in common?

England
Germany
Okinawa
Japan
Spain
Italy
Cuba
South Korea
Kuwait
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Turkey

The US maintains bases in each of these nations. You can add Iraq. IT should be noted this is not a complete list.