Fitzmas: Total distraction to make left love the CIA

Fitzgerald is a complete distraction.

A real prosecutor assigned to the Bush regime would have nailed them instantly for their six-year-plus violation of the Presidential Records Act, an act of Congress (therefore superior to any executive order) under which the Reagan White House records should have been released in 2001. Open and shut case. Let the Supreme Court rule otherwise.

A real prosecutor would march up with writs for Zakheim and Rumsfeld and demand an independent review of the audit that found the Pentagon could not account for 2.3 trillion dollars (sic) in assets.

A real 9/11 investigation would have caused the resignation of the whole crew and indictments at the least for criminal negligence of the top civilian and miltary echelons.

A magistrate with courage would go after them for violating constitutional rights of the citizens ("enemy combatant") and using and condoning torture around the world.

A real prosecutor could have bagged the Office of Special Plans and the White House Iraq Group for conspiracy to mislead the public and launch a war of aggression (worst crime on the Nuremberg charges) long ago.

Why are any of you people falling for the Plame distraction? The CIA is a criminal organization, nearly unmatched in history for its perfidy. Revealing the names of its agents, as Philip Agee did to prompt the original law under which Libby was indicted, was once a heroic act.

Now that something even worse is around - a privatized CIA-like network surrounding the Bush mob and running the country as a criminal syndicate - the left is conned into championing the CIA as some kind of patriotic troop. (My guess is that this is a battle carefully chosen as a safe one by the CIA, with purpose of cutting down the Bush mob without revealing too much systemic rot and destabilizing the business environment.)

Yes, it seems true that Plame's name was revealed in an effort to pay back Wilson for not endorsing the regime's lies about Iraq. Which is a crime, but on what scale, exactly - compared to the original forgery of the Niger documents, or knowingly lying to the world in front of the Security Council, or writing the policy that did not just condone but guaranteed an Abu Ghraib (to cite three of hundreds of possible examples)?

Don't fall for it. Keep your eyes on the real crimes. Sadly, only a mass outrage expressed in millions of people crying for justice on the street is likely to get an investigation of what really matters.

Otherwise, be prepared for Fitzmas as perpetual disappointment.

"Liberal." I'd like to know what it means to you.

Many members of a progressive web site suddenly became ardent defenders of the CIA's need to skulk around and spy on people. They seemed to have forgotten the agency's nefarious history--all for the sake of scoring some brownie points againt Rove.

Everyone in DC knows that. It has nothing to do with going after Rove, etc.

are you saying that the investigation is dead? fitzgerald isn`t going after anyone else involved?

if you think fitzgerald is not a "real prosecutor" he has the best track record of any federal prosecutor and there is no one better.

I can see what the results of this prosecution have been so far - a mild slowing-down of the Bush mob, nothing like justice for the crimes of the Iraq lies or anything else they've done, although there are easy slam-dunk cases to be made (like the Presidential Records Act). I don't know what Fitzgerald's motivation is, but it's easy enough to see this case is a kabuki theater play.

and the FBI, NSA...

Currently the bad guys have the upper hand in the higher echelons, which isn't to say they don't have foot soldiers willing to do their dirty work. But there are good guys in the lower ranks.


"...there are walls within the FBI, walls within the CIA, behind which these operations take place..."

"We have agent Robert Wright of the Chicago FBI, who’s giving congressional testimony, and, umm, he stands on the steps of the Capitol, bursts into tears, apologizes to the 9-11 families, the victims, that he didn’t do everything he could to prevent 9-11 from happening, that his investigations were repeatedly shut down. And I almost fell over, because he announced that his investigation was the investigation into Yassan Khadi, the same Sheikh Yassan Khadi who was the money man behind Ptech. And, umm, you could not ask for a more direct connection to 9-11 than that."

...

"In fact, and this has to be made very clear, there are some extraordinarily real patriotic Americans and good people in the FBI, as has been said by, I believe, Agent Colleen Rowley, one of the FBI whistleblowers’ bosses, that there’s a wall in the FBI, and this has been validated to me by various attorneys in Houston, who are very close to the power bases, and are pretty ticked-off at what’s happening in this country and are speaking out, as are many CIA agents who are very concerned that it has gone too far, as are many NSA agents who are concerned that it’s gone too far, and FBI agents. So we have a lot of people who are speaking out, they’ve kept quiet too long; they’re afraid, they’re afraid of what’s happening to this country. And when I say the Third Reich, what is happening to this country, they say, and I will identify ‘they’ if pressed, they say, will make the Third Reich look like a tea party."

-- Indira Singh


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

WMD situation on the ground in Iran.. I think that is "good".

Good means "good information" these days. I think that is what Plame was.

Brewster-Jennings outings, and to see its importance in on-going events, as well as historically. As a result of the disaster in Vietnam, Iran-Contra, the Jimmy Carter administration and a few other historical circumstances (for instance, the US horrors perpetrated on South and Central America--nuns and bishops getting slaughtered by "our side," etc.), there was a period in the '70s-early '80s when the majority actually had some say in this country, which resulted in a reform movement within the secret government, and the creation of a culture aimed more at preventing war--such as the Plame/Brewster-Jennings counter-proliferation network, 20 years in the making--rather than manufacturing it. This newer, more enlightened culture was targeted by the Bush junta as too peaceful, and was taken out.

Human behavior is never all black or all white, and I think that was especially true in this situation. The CIA may be bad guys, generally (reviewing their history) but the Bush junta is worse. And what the CIA had come to be--more of a "balance of power" agency--stood as an obstacle to the Bush junta in manufacturing war against Iraq and Iran. I think they probably tripped up the Bushites rather seriously--for instance, foiled an effort to PLANT WMDs in Iraq, and if that is the case, we have the CIA to thank for whatever political chance we have to oust the Bushites from power. (Can you imagine how entrenched the Bush junta would be, politically, if a scheme to "find" planted WMDs in Iraq had succeeded?) This newer CIA culture was also opposed to torture, and was operating under anti-torture and anti-assassination directives. Are the people who are alive and well today (some of the new Leftist leaders in South/Central America, for instance), who would likely have been ruined, tortured or killed by the old culture CIA, not to be considered? We may hate having a "secret government," and be appalled at past CIA horrors, but you just can't paint it all with one brush. It's not accurate. We have a healthy, peaceful, democratic, Leftist revolution occurring in South America today in part because the CIA BACKED OFF. (--and that's something the Bush junta would very much like to change).

It is of course true that, because we have a "secret government," and a huge military budget, it was all ripe for a takeover by a fascist coup. There is no question in my mind about that. But the actions of the Bush junta--in purging government professionals, and installing toadies and yes men--clearly indicate that there were tempering forces and good people within that establishment, who have tried to guide the US government toward more peaceful and constructive behavior in the world.

JackRiddler is taking something of a kneejerk leftist position that we should pay NO attention to nuances either within the Bush junta or within the US military/corporate establishment--including the investigation of the filthy dirty Bushites by the straight-arrow Mr. Fitzgerald. But I think some of those nuances are important, not just in terms of devising better strategies to restore democracy and save our country, but also as to the real consequences of power struggles--and mixed motives--within those structures, such as the one I mentioned above--the CIA backing off in South America over the last several decades. Another nuance may be Rove's guilt in the Plame outing vs, say Cheney's guilt, or Rumsfeld's. Rove is a political operative. But Cheney, and especially Rumsfeld, are the creators of wars, the beneficiaries of torture, and the grand spymasters and blackmailers of the world. The probability that they were USING Rove to destroy an obstacle to their war plans is very interesting, to say the least, and may lead to an understanding of the fissures in this regime, and to more effective strategies to defeat them.

And here's another example of how the nuances may be important: There is evidence of a Bush junta plan to plant WMDs in Iraq that were traceable to Iran or headed for Iran, which may mean that the invasion plan was to march from Baghdad right into Tehran, in the same swoop. If the CIA counter-proliferation network that Plame headed foiled the planting of WMDs in Iraq, it may have thus prevented tens of thousands of additional deaths in Iran--and a potential holocaust in the Middle East. Things are bad enough in the Middle East, but they could be a lot worse. This is a theory for which there is some evidence--including the inferential evidence of the Bush junta's REACTION to the CIA, its attempts to purge and circumvent it, and its traitorous and highly risky outing of not just Plame but the entire BJ network. It is a reasonable and plausible speculation on what the "war" between the Bushites and the CIA was/is all about. And it points up the difference between them, in a rather stark fashion: the one into war and bludgeoning its way through seas of carnage; the other into LESS LETHAL ways of serving corporate/US power.

The Bush junta seems to crave death and destruction. They revel in it and thrive on it, and write their political narratives in blood and racial hatred. Is there not quite a substantial difference between the grief to individual human beings from the Bush junta M.O., and from that of a CIA with at least large factions within it into PEACEFUL skulduggery and information gathering?

Some Leftists ignore the incidental consequences--the human consequences--of SOME corporatists and SOME military/corporate players having SOME human and ethical values, of wanting peace, or of believing in lawfulness. But these things may make a GREAT deal of difference to the potential victims--the victims of war, the victims of torture, the victims of indefinite detention, the Bush-junta-created victims of Katrina, and so forth. And when the criminals of the Bush junta go after the peaceful and lawful people within our government establishment, and ruin them or put their lives in danger, it is just not helpful in any way to say that they are all bad guys, so why should we care?

I DO sympathize with JackRiddler's position in some ways. But the fact that "Fitzmas" (that brainless term) may turn out to be a "perpetual disappointment" has more plausible causes than that it was "planned" that way (as a distraction). I think it's more likely that the Fitzgerald investigation was the result of a "last straw"--the junta not just fighting alternative and antiwar views in the CIA (purging and circumventing it, internally), but going after and illegally destroying its WMD counter-proliferation agents and concocting a political cover story. I don't smell a planned distraction. I smell gunpowder--the final round of a desperate internal battle, whereby those being purged got a legal handle on the Bushites and grabbed at it. The power situation was very, very iffy, at first--and still is (if the speculation about "Sealed v. Sealed" is true--that it's "Fitzgerald v. Gonzales"--that Gonzales has tried to intervene to overrule Fitzgerald, perhaps on the Rove indictment, or a Cheney indictment). It is a real and very important question whether there is even a shred of "balance of power" left in this country. "Balance of power" may not give you the best government possible, or anything close to it, but it DOES keep people alive to fight another day.

As for "millions of people crying for justice on the street"--yeah, that's a Lefty's dream all right. I've dreamt it, too. But I would rather have millions of people at their Boards of Election crying for transparent vote counting and throwing Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' (or some other convenient body of water). Without transparent elections, we have no power. We can--and we have--put millions of people "on the street," and nothing comes of it--because the criminals in the White House are not beholden to us anymore. Nor are most of the Democrats. They're all beholden to Bushite corporations that are "counting" the votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code.

So let's be practical for once--you, me and all dreamers of the Dream--and focus on the MECHANISM of POWER by which they are able to ignore the majority of the American people, on their heinous, illegal war and everything else.

I think the Fitzgerald investigation is important--mainly for political/strategy information. (It's like we're outside of our own country--as expatriates--analysing the news to see whose going to end up on top of the junta that has seized power in our troubled land. It may be vital to our interest in restoring democracy.) But I think transparent elections is more important--is PRIORITY #1--especially since I think we have a narrowing window of opportunity at the state/local level to accomplish it. The latter is what most of my own energies are devoted to, these days (since 11/3/04), but the former is not without interest.

All this stuff you're assuming about Brewster Jennings is speculation, in fact sounds like it's coming out of a form of leftist wishful thinking.

Where's the evidence, who is saying this stuff? Care to give us the links?

Otherwise, sure, I see the nuances you're talking about.

And?

We're still sitting here waiting for the presumed good guys at one illegitimate extraconstitutional outfit of secret authority, the existence of which at least is not a secret (the CIA) to put a few obstructions in the way of the total gangsters currently running the regime (the Bush mob) - knowing all along that the latter group of gangsters grew out of the former institution, and might have never existed in the first place, had we the people not long ago allowed the executive and legislature to surrender our sovereignty to secret bureaucracies, in the name of "intelligence" and "security."

Of course this can make people feel powerless. Alternatively, they can stop investing themselves emotionally in Fitzmas (by whatever name) and find more constructive things to do (like taking their money out of Citigroup and sticking it in a credit union, and then getting the fuck out on the street to make their protests undeniable).

be trusted. He will whitewash scooter to. Let's face it folks it was at best a forlorn hope that a repug would do anything but help the shrub and his ilk. Were done!

demoralized and disenfranchised. Fitzgerald not indicting Rove this week is the least of them, and we don't yet know if it's bad at all (--could be good if Rove has ratted out Libby on the main crime, or Cheney). And there is absolutely no evidence that he is "whitewashing" anybody--and lots and lots of evidence that the Bush junta is obstructing him. I think this tendency to just throw our hands up in despair, whenever news about this investigation/prosecution doesn't result in the toppling of the Bush junta today, this week, comes from a belief in "white knights" --a "white knight" prosecutor, or a "white knight" presidential candidate--who will come along and do our job for us--our collective job as citizens of rescuing our country and restoring democracy. It's understandable, but don't let it feed depression and feelings of disempowerment. We have to fight those feelings, and look for the ways to re-empower ourselves and others.

You have made an excellent point. It is the fox guarding the hen house?

Sure seems like it took an awful long time to do what little has been done. The fact that no honest investigation has appeared any where on the political screenings is quite obvious. And we expected that Fitz was supposed to overcome the powers that be?

It was a fantasy, eh? Or maybe - fanatical?

Their power grows stronger everyday. Only the people, rising up as one, will turn this train around.

The results - starting with what has been attempted, let alone done - are a joke.

The Presidential Records Act violation is a slam-dunk. That there were lies around Iraq is a certainty. Start with the former and move into the latter. Instead, what? Two years to get one indictment on Libby for what? By avoiding the big items, it will seem like a joke.

.....one tenth of the rage about the reporting of this scandal were directed at the Fritz, et al, they'd be dead meat in no time. Sigh.

We've been misdirected again. Like 'Clear Skies', and all that other hooey, they fake one way and run to the other. Fitz was a mastermind fake, it now appears. Even had me going on thinking that Fitz was gonna deliver... now, nothing. Nothing so far 'cept a charge that may not ever see a real day in court, unless they think they need to throw us another bone.

I'm afraid it will all be over, before it's over... if I live that long.
They are killing me.

This is definitely not a popular idea around here. Guess people cling to their false hopes.

I think the whole thing is fishy.

You mean it's ridiculous? Or that I should leave? Or what?