Joe Wilson and Larry Johnson both think Rove has flipped.

Hey Bob, Where’s Your Letter?
By Jane Hamsher @ 2:24 pm


I have to say I don’t know what all the fuss is about.

When I first heard that Rove got a letter saying that Fitzgerald did not intend to bring charges against him, I immediately thought — as emptywheel did — of a conversation we had between the Plame panelists last Thursday. Emptywheel took a poll of those who thought Rove had flipped and both Joe Wilson and Larry Johnson raised their hands. Christy acknowledged that it was awfully weird for someone to testify before a grand jury five times and NOT be cooperating in some fashion with the prosecution. Today emptywheel offers this account:

http://firedoglake.com/

But what would these guys know anyway.

Let's follow Corn's lead and blame the Democrats.

Rove is so much thinner now.

that they saw Joe and Larry "raise their hands"?

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"...asked who thought Karl Rove was cooperating with the investigation. Two and two halves of us raised our hands.

OK, first, cooperation and "flipping" are entirely different concepts.

Secondly, I am not a "troll", I just don't agree with these theories. That does not make me less of a Democrat. That's very judgemental.

And why?

Wilson keeps pushing this "Rove will flip" idea like we are talking about the Castellano murder trial.

Why would Rove flip? He's facing indictment under an impossible statute. Even if convicted, he's almost certainly not going to jail. And if he does, he is a hero for the Right-wing for the rest of his life. G Gordon Liddy is a millionaire today because he never said a word. And he did real time.

Meanwhile, Rove testifies against Cheney, brings down the administration, and is a pariah for the rest of his life.

No one has ever explained this to me in a way that makes sense.

those are impossible statutes to prosecute? Libby is looking at 30 years.

Liddy is someone who could DO time - he's gung-ho and perfectly able to look after himself.

Then there's KKarl - can you imagine him in prison?? With the threat hanging over his head that he wouldn't do time in a Club Fed but somewhere a little more harsh?? He's a tough political operator but in the slammer he'd be bending over grabbing his ankles on his first night.

Previously I would have found it difficult to believe a Bush capo like Rove would flip, but now I'm not so sure.....

He wouldn't like bending over and holding his ankles. If his gay lover releases the pictures things could change.

Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.
Wake up and smell the buckshot, Rove.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now I have to clean my keyboard AGAIN !!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

think about anything. Neither has many any such statement. If you read through the links, you are reading an account of someone who heard from someone else that they say they saw Joe and Larry raise their hands when asked who thought Rove was cooperating.

I would prefer to hear a statement from either to that effect before I claim it as truth.

a far cry from "flipped".

Wilson made a public statement today, and this was not mentioned. I just am bothered by the idea of claiming to know what people are thinking; especially based on as little as this.

I would love for either or both to discuss this matter in greater depth; but until they do, I find it a bit presumptuous to draw such conclusions on their feelings in the matter.

was his conviction when this story broke--it was when Bush had the whole world by the balls--when they asked if the people who did this will be prosecuted. He said without hesitation, "yes." It was stunning to see someone from the inside believe that BushCo wouldn't be able to get around this.

Now we see that Rove (is HE "Person A"?) is not gonna get slammed. But the investigation is not over as far as we know. Well, then...who really is "person A"? If KKKarl is off the hook, it's because he either can't be prosecuted by a skilled prosecuter who has a few birds singing already or because KKKarl is not the primary leak and has only reported about who is. And that person would likely have to be above KKKarl.

Why is the GJ still convening if all the ducks who are going to fall have fallen?

And will he hold to his previous testimony during Libby trial?

The GJ will convene even if it has nothing else to hear regarding Rove or any other matter from Fitzgerald.

As for the rest, even if there was a deal - which I regard as a huge reach, no offense to Joe Wilson, he's entitled to his opinion just like I'm entitled to mine - we can't possibly know a thing about it. We look to Fitzgerald for hope in vain. Even if some exists, he can't be a professional and respect the GJ process and let us know it exists. Time to bury this and move on. And if we're pleasantly surprised later, great.

that has flown around here on DU today.

Since I said more than once that this investigation is far from over I am assuming my crap is excluded from your wrath. :)

enough is enough is enough.:)

The obvious flame-starters are easy enough to spot and ignore, but even at this late date I still glean info from most of the others. Some I refute when I can, others I research, and some I agree with.

It's important, to me at least, to try and get a majority of this community to start looking critically and objectively at things that are presented to them, and not just put them in the "worthy" column because they happen to agree with a desired result.

That is/was the thing that profoundly bothered me with a lot of the "believer" arguments, and still does to this day.

If we purport ourselves to be a reality-based community, we must behave as such, and that means calling ourselves out when we do wrong.

The game of golf is the only game I know that polices itself, i.e. when someone breaks the rules or attempts to cheat other players will "alert" on him/her. It keeps (or attempts to keep) the game above reproach.

That is not a bad rule to follow, methinks.

'cheneymas' may be a comin'.

"It’s become ever more apparent as time goes on and Fitzgerald releases bits of information in his filings that this was a Dick Cheney operation. Rove may have gotten involved because smearing people is his idea of a good time, but the Cheney scrawlings on Joe Wilson’s op-ed are the "blue dress" of this case. Look at Conrad Black. Look at George Ryan. I’m sorry, but Fitzgerald had Rove dead to rights if he wanted him, and anyone who thinks he got nothing for something has been following the story of a different prosecutor than I have been."

-- Jane Hamsher.

Cheney was behind the outing of V. Wilson and Brewster Jennings. The problem is legaly pinning this on him.

like it said somewhere in there, during Rove's fifth time Fitz got what he wanted signed, sealed and delivered, no need to indict. In effect, if Rove said, "Cheney made me do it.", they go for Cheney on possible perjury depending on his testimony to Fitz way back in the day -- et voila! If Rover lied to Fitz: Perjury, OOJ, all the stuff he's already got on him and more.

That also squares with the "no deals were made" statement from Luskin.

I have thought all along that the Plame operation originated with Cheney. Rove was most likely brought in to assist without knowing of her undercover status. In short, when the story broke Rove realized pretty quickly that he was in danger and he was probably furious that Cheney did not tell him the whole story about Plame. Rove probably made it clear he would try to navigate the minefield without compromising Cheney, but he would not fall on a grenade for him and take the wrap.

I believe that Cheney will resign and be pardoned as Smirky leaves office.

completely above the law. They are untouchable.

and I don't see them paying for any crimes. Any time one of them appears to go down I suspect it was because they pissed off someone on the inside and they're being hung out to dry deliberately. We are in a state of absolute governmental corruption. It happens to every society...and for some reason it gets accepted 99/100 times. I won't bet but I do hope that this is that 1 out of 100 times when the peasants have enough.

But I suspect BK Delux Burgers, cheap DVDs and lots of FAUX news can keep them down on the farm for a good long while yet.

And he's a good liberal lawyer.

no matter how much cash Karl paid. You gotta draw the line somewhere, don't you?

Defense attorneys don't choose their clients.

You could just as easily say that the ACLU should not defend the Klan.

pig boy getting away with this!

Your paragraph:

Christy acknowledged that it was awfully weird for someone to testify before a grand jury five times and NOT be cooperating in some fashion with the prosecution. Makes perfect sense.


:toast:

It was almost without doubt that Rove had been pegged. How could Wilson be sure enough to talk about a lawsuit, if he didn't have something incriminating?

I have opted for the wait and see attitude all along on this. I never expected quick results.

The plot thickens, and it's so intriguing. Too bad it's such a nightmare, or it might be fun.



So Rove will still get his day in court. But meanwhile, Dick! Pat is coming for you...

I bet you guys would be dancing to the music in the ballroom while the Titanic was going down. What a bunch of cheerleading.

We're all dreaming. We lost. AGAIN! Accept it. Get used to it. It's what the liberals do best.

It is getting so that you can set your watch by it. Next stop, November. I'll bet many of you still think the dems are going to take control of at least one, and possibly both houses of congress. If you do, I've got a bridge to sell you, very cheap. This is a repub country now. It does not even so much matter whether the people are democrats, it is not a country of the people anymore. And most people don't really care anyways, so long as they have their SUV's and flat screen tv's.

King george and the congress could drop to 10% ratings, and they would still maintain control. That's what is not being understood here. They are in power, and will not give it up. And along the way, they will break laws, and change things to suit themselves and their friends. And if you want to continue hoping for the best, well that's fine, but it's truly a waste of your positive energy, and will result in getting more depressed when things don't work out.

I cannot tell you how much today's developments sicken me. Again I feel like I've been kicked hard, and the kicker is walking away with a smile on their face, about to kick another friend of mine.

Maybe this never was a nation "of the people," but the illusion was necessary when more people could see.

My faith is that the manufactured reality of those holding power cannot long keep pace with natural reality. Turning back the odometer on a car does not make the car last longer. As hard as those holding power might try, this economy they depend upon cannot be maintained by illusion. When this economy fails, We the People will have renewed opportunity to form a republic that represents us.

rather than depression. This fight is very far from being over.

"Shooter" has become more and more a liability. Now if they would only wise up and get rid of Rummy. But I think * is too enamored of Rummy's fairy tales about the future of Iraq.

Thanks!

he turned on Libby and probably Cheney to save his own sorry ass.

Karl Rove did not "flip." He is not Sammy the Bull and Cheney is not John Gotti.

Nowhere, I mean, NOWHERE does either Joe Wilson or Larry Johnson make the statement that they think Rove flipped.

And it bothers me that some think it's OK to speculate that is how THEY feel.

But, whatever makes you FEEL better is OK to pass along as truth, it seems. :eyes: