jebus what is it with boys today??? moral values dead? online games bad?

so my daughter had a boyfriend that talked her into doing some things that got her in severe trouble and she had to end the relationship.


she is in summerschool PE right now to get a jump on her credits to graduate early and I just found a note in her gym bag where she and a boy are talking about online games.

the boy asks if there is a feature to "gang rape" victims...GOD I hate sex and what it does to people...

This boy is a straight A student and comes from good people...


WHAT IS A MOTHER OF A TEEN GIRL TO DO??????????

and kill all boys that look at her

girls hound him constantly. Phone call after phone call after phone call, half naked girls knocking on the door asking if he's home. Lots of times he just closes the door on them. I just hope he holds out another couple of years.

to make clear to her daughter that she has a responsibility to herself, other girls but this boy too,...to reject strongly that behavior

i have two sons that are young, and they talk to me a lot about the girls. interesting what you are experiencing

nt

Have a sense of humor?

This sounds like any of many sarcastic remarks about video games on DU.

Believe me, trying to pretend these things are a joke is a recipe for disaster.

are you crazy?

A joke about video games.

Video games is the subject, gang rape the object.

"I hate sex and what it does to people"
That kid is driven by a pathology of power and violence, not sex.
He may come from "good people", but he doesn't sound very good himself.

.. a mirror of what our society allows... Where "gang rape" is illegal and immoral, there is a curtain between "on line" and reality.

The problem is that immature minds are seriously damaged by these things, and it blurs the line of what is acceptable and what is not. For example in light of the episode of the CBS show that showed a teen sex party depicting group sex and the like, the FCC is threatening stiff fines for anything hat might be offensive. I say too little to late.

Having raised a daughter, I know that she will experiment, and possibly do things that will get you boiling mad. But, if your daughter is like mine, she will remember what she has been taught from when she was very young, and will not turn out too bad.

My daughter is a medic with the 101st in Iraq. Where the decision was hers, I was at least happy that she chose a path to possibly do some good.

I hope that helped.

and before this "boyfriend" I trusted her to do the right thing. What she did was not as bad as it could have been.

I just hate that SEX drives everything and hate that our daughters are so vunerable.

And teens have been sex-crazed since time immemorial.

Talk about internal bruising, vaginal tears, blood all over the place, agonizing pain, and humiliation, plus the diseases carried by all the males that used her body to masturbate into.

Then ask her what this boy has suggested she do with HIM.

she says they just know each other from PE. She is not into him otherwise.

it's really too late. All the "doing" has to be done while they're still very young. My father told me when my oldest was born that values are set by the time they hit puberty. Boy was he right and I'm glad I listened.

Sorry, this is going to sound harsh but you did post this on a public message board asking for advice so here goes:

1. (and this is really important) nobody can be "talked into" doing something they know and believe is wrong. The former boyfriend is NOT responsible for whatever it was your daughter did. She is. If she's blaming her actions on "being talked into something" then she's not taking responsibility for herself and you'll need to start there. If she is taking responsibility and you are the one who couches it as her being "talked into" things, you'll need to work on that yourself.

2. Why are you snooping through her gym bag? If she's in so much trouble and your household is so out of control that you feel the need to snoop, you've got bigger problems than what some boy is asking about video games.

3. "God I hate sex..." uh. wow. issues.

4. teenage boys talk about video games and the features they contain...ALL.THE.TIME. It doesn't mean they endorse them. It doesn't mean they practice them in real life. It doesn't mean diddly squat in and of itself. Teenage boys also think and talk about sex...ALL.THE.TIME. They have since humans started walking upright (and probably before that). Don't make it more than it is.

5. "straight A student" and "comes from good people" doesn't mean diddly either. Perhaps your daughter's problems are a symptom of something much larger and complicated going on with your household which may or may not include problems such as judging/evaluating people, dealing with basic human interaction (including sex) and communication between children and adults, etc.

I have two pieces of advice for you:

A. Don't ask strangers on a message board for parenting advice.

B. Think about getting some professional help.

Good luck. Sincerely.

Maybe you (op) should sit down with the kid and show her what you just wrote on DU,
and what we're written.

Sometimes coming all the way clean and open is the way... messy, but what's clean in puberty.

Too bad she's not in to drugs, or it would be so much simpler. ;-)

Really now, its not any ending of any world, but you did snoop, and you are the one who's
got some splining to do lucy.

let my oldest read when i think it is something that would be good for him to hear. you daughter needs to wake up

and the lunch utensils out to wash


I was not expecting to find anything.


There is nothing wrong with our household.

She knows right from wrong and totally understands the consequences of her actions and I believe is truly sorry.

I just was really suprised at the "gang rape" reference.

to my girl's credit, she didn't respond at all!!!

"scooting chair far away"

back and not taking a stand..... more like i wont be having some boy talk to me like that. not right.
thegirl has to communciate, teACH, show the boy that is not going to be a productive way talking to a girl or he will tak like that and worse with the next. he needs to be rejected

self delete

That is not funny, nor flirtatious. I'd worry about this kid if I were you.

It's one thing if he wanted to have sex with her (normal teen behavior), but being flippant about gang-rape is a red flag. IMO.

What makes you think it's only boys?

And if you have issues with sex, you may need to get some therapy to deal with it. SEX does not make boys think of gang rape as entertaining. An authoritarian, greed-crazed consumer culture does. I was totally into sex as a teen, but I never even thought about gang rape, let alone regular rape. That has NOTHING to do with sex.

And the boy does not come from good people if he talks like that, IMO.

Your daughter bears responsibility for the things the boy "talked her into doing". Girls today are just as screwed-up as boys, in case you hadn't noticed, and yet still, a lot of boys and girls AREN'T, and are trying their best to be good people.

My boys would have their mouths washed out with soap if they joked about gang raping people, even on a game.

maybe I am just older now, but you can't tell me that sex means anything to these kids.



I have a student who just told me today he as a 4 year old son he doesn't get to see. Showed me the picture and when I asked what grade he was in when he fathered this child he said 8th. So was the girl.


geesh


maybe I am just a prude, but there is no beauty in this

Yes, there is a sadly blase attitude towards sex with a lot of kids. But not all of them.

As for the teens having babies - there is nothing more unwise than having a child at that age, But to say that there is no beauty in their having a child (and no doubt loving it as much as they can) seems rather presumptuous to me.

It's way too young, yes, but their feelings are no more or less beautiful than those of an adult, IMO. They're just immature.

that i swhat happens letting them leaarn from an adult world before their time, instead of their own curiosity and exploration of their youth that is age appropriate

" imho sex today does not equal the love and beauty it should be"

Because sex sells, and TV, movies, novels, etc., use it to sell CONSTANTLY.

And rarely are negative consequences portrayed.

as in you throw like a girl. cry like a girl. i tell them, good of you to take a girl to insult a boy. wont ever hear a girl use boys to insult a girl. inherently making the girl less in thought.

we have been talking respect both ways, cause there are a handful of ugly girls my boys have interacted with. it isnt per gender.

but i do want to see girls draw a line with boys.. it is as important for the boys girls do this, as it is for girls

you are right.... there would be a lot of ugliness if anything like that came out. oh mom jut kidding.............NOT

See, that's why I like playing World of Warcraft


I tend to scare guys away on there :D

I've got a gnome warrior myself.

But never mind that, it's off topic. What I think we're discussing here has the dehumanizing of our society at heart. In this case, the kids are reflecting only what they see in the greater world. The best way to handle it is to counteract the influence early.

when these teen boys say these things girls let them know it isnt ok. they are testing out to see how far they can go. IF ONLY there would be girls to let these boys know WHERE the line is.

tlaking to your daughter about gang rape. make it the horror it is. elt her see WHY she should be offended and that she must say, hey.... that just is not cool.

and it isnt cool, or cute. but if girls play with it, if none draw the line.... what is our GIRLS teaching our boys

example

12 yr old niece with huge boobs already. the little pimply face 12 yr old boys tlaking to girls about video "girls gone wild"

the girls where embarrassed and didnt say anything.

i told niece, tell them knock the crap off or you will walk..... that you don't think it is cute or funny

and i agree... a boy or anyone doesnt talk your daughter into. it is your daughter choice. she gets to own it. totally

with teen boys, I can tell you that the problem isn't just the boys.

i am wanting to tak to the moms of girls. i think we are very much lettting our girls down. i know the schools are on the boys ass if it even appears they are out of line, schools are so afraid of and for them,.... they are not doing the same with girls. the boys see this.

Ok, a lot of teens totally talk out their butt when it comes to this stuff. What you can do, and what I'm glad my mother did for me, was to teach me to make good decisions and there were consequences to my actions. I made a lot of mistakes, but I made them all in the smartest way possible. Sure, some of it was probably luck, but no matter what (or who) I was doing I always used a condom and was very aware of what could happen. There's no guarantee she's doing anything at all- guys used to say stuff to me at the time that were horribly appropriate and I would never do, but they liked to harrass me. Bopys that age are discovering the power inherent in sexuality and also like the "shock" of it all. Don't blame her, just teach her to make good decisions and trust her.

Ex-sluts represent!

that she will respect herself and make good choices.


I just couldn't believe the reference.

I never would have made that sort of reference and would have bolted had any of my friends talked that way.


Infact...once when I was a jr in high school, someone talked about "pulling a train" and when I actually found out what it was, I was mortified.


course I was kind of naive in my younger days.

I started teaching last year in a middle school, 8th grade, and I've been amazed at their behavior. I don't recall acting like that until 15 or 16. I'm in a pretty affluent area so I try to tell myself it's because the kids are being raised by MTV and housekeepers, but there's definitely something to it.

All you can do is try your best to instill values. At the end of the day, she'll do what she wants to. If you've taught her to respect herself, that will shield her from an awful lot of the bad out there.

and dread!


I have actually had kids ask at what age would it be okay for sex.

I smile and look at them and say "on your wedding night"


I know that is probably a stretch in this day and age, but one can hope...

Kids are not neccessarily "smarter" these days, but they're most definitely "savvier". Unfortunately parents are going to worry, but I guess it's all part of growing up. Of course, I don't have any of my own, my only experience is with a bunch over spoiled 13 year olds. I wish it could be easier for you, but have faith! Keep reminding her how special she is and she'll know she deserves better than whatever Joe Lacrosse she comes across.

You might want to look into some feminist literature.

I think people take it for granted that young women today learn to respect themselves as women. In this society - I don't think that anything of the sort should be taken for granted. And women need countermeasures to all of the bullshit.

you (we) were not given "entertaiment" that included interactive murder, pimpimg, and gang rapes.


Our parents would NEVER have given us that crap to play with! Children are being desensitzed at an early age and we are going to pay for it in the future.

I would never* shoot another person, if I even have it in me (and I'm not in a hurry to find out), but I love blowing away other people online. Games, music, literature, dancing, mode of dress, use of slang, et cetera ad nauseum do NOT cause people to do bad things. Strict prohibition has a far greater causative effect. Fantasy is precisely the realm for exploring things you would never do in real life, and most people are able to separate the two. Those who can't are insane. Unless this boy is insane as well, I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are, if she let you find the note in the first place, it was to intentionally rile you and/or find out if you snoop through her stuff.

*At least, I hope I'm never in a situation where that seems like the best option.

dirty clothes out and lunch stuff for the next day

we have to leave the house at a god awful early time and have to take care of these things at night.


have done it for years. Same with back pack as she would forget notes from teachers ect.

If not, it may have just been an oversight. Either way, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

we usually get along pretty well.

she and her dad on the other hand ...

see that is the flippant attitude that scares me about today's attitude on sex

...it's having imaginary things do it to other imaginary things, where no real people get hurt. Just like I can celebrate shooting two nazis in the head with one bullet online. I don't understand why people dance. I've tried it, didn't like it, still thought it was stupid.

You don't have to get why other people think it's fun making stupid shit happen in video games, you just have to understand that, unless those kids are insane, this whole matter is probably harmless.

I make and have made comments like that all through my life - I am a rampant liberal. I think I just have a sick (in most people's minds) sense of humor. I think a lot of parents don't give their teen age sons and daughters any credit for knowing reality before they should. If that makes any sense.

I'm now 30, and when I was a kid we used to make some of the most vulgar hateful (in a jovial way) comments about each others mothers etc - and this was long before Playstation.

I think some people are raised 'conservatively' even liberal households won't let their kids experience an R rated movie at 13. That's not the way I was brought up, and I thank my (still together parents of 40 years) every day for it.

Oh, and by the way, just wait until Grand Theft Auto 4 hits the shelves soon - It's going to rile the whole damn country up.

:)

EDIT - re-reading my post, I come off a little bit of an ass, and I don't mean it that way. It's just that words and actions are two different things. I can assure you, that comment I could see myself making at the time. I never raped or hurt anybody - sometimes people's perceptions of humor are different.

peace

she knows about the students I teach and situations,

she is allowed to watch r rated movies with us. She and I enjoy very much RENT and love to sing the songs from it.


she is not sheltered

I just pray that she remembers her morals and I would hope that gang rape comments would raise her alert awareness

your kids from sex these days.

When I was growing up we'd look for National Geographics to maybe get a sight of a semi-naked person. Maybe someone would have a picture from an old Playbot magazine and secretly pass it around.

Today the internet has all the free porn a 13 year old could ever want, and he can see hardcore sex on HBO any night. If you won't let him look at it, you can guarantee he's seeing it at a friend's house.

The stuff I said in HS and teen years in general was pretty wild. But I never got into any trouble, did not cause any, and help some friends avoid some trouble.

But man, I did and STILL have a seriously sick sense of humor.

And at times, it comes in handy :)

Example: When my wife found out she had parkinson's she was obviously upset. As was I. So we joked about it some. I told her I understood, I had porkinson's - my brain made me want to screw all night long. She laughed for the first time that day.

We still make jokes about it, because there is no cure all we can do is laugh and live. If I didn't have my sick sense of humor I would probably be taking some serious meds with all I have been through in the last year and a half.

(be honest here) to embarrass and have a power over the female you said these cruel, ugly comments to. syaing when a male said them to me, it was obvious to me that there was a play to humiliate or embarrass me.

of course, if called on it the comment would be a sick sense of humor or just teasing.

hell, I am 40, back in the day the only computer games I had were text based adventures :)

But I did re-write Eliza to be sexual based. But I also wrote it to be math based and chess based as well (ie, the answers related to those topics).

I was so backward the only girl I went out with, until I was 19, was because my friend (who I found out later was gay - and we still joke about this) wanted to go out with her best friend. Only way she would go is if I went with her friend regina who had a crush on me. It was to a christian concert, second chapter of acts.

Now - what did we say/do back in the day that was damn bad by today's standards?

I won't say em all, but one thing we did was play 'smear the queer' - you throw the ball up in the air, and whoever catches it you tackle (smear). Back then, the term actually did not mean what it means nowadays to me - it was just the title of a game.

The racist stuff back then - now that was at times bad. Even though most of us weren't racist (a few were and still are) it was just how we talked back then. Three out of my 5 most close friends were black, and it was just terms/sayings we used. We had no problem with race, but today such comments would seem horrible.

reminds me of a real funny story. Give me a bathroom break and if you want to hear it will tell ya.

is the same from this young dude or what i am taking about. but then i was back in your days too. and yes i know the game, lol lol, being a girl thought it stupid. a whole different thing now. and sure to your funny story

my good friend in high school was Blair Cooper. Awesome guy, one of the few black people around my side of town in the day. He was good at math, me as well, and we both loved programming.

one day we were playing Dungeons and Dragons at my house. I was the Dungeon master (ie, I played all the characters his player would encounter, kind of like acting I suppose). His guy was in a bar and one of the patrons was getting rowdy.

Playing the patron I said: "the drunk guy is looking at you and cursing, then says, let's take it outside n***er" and I suddenly stopped. Yeah, I was playing the redneck evil guy in the bar (whom he later did kill I might add) but I felt so bad I stopped right there.

"Dude, I am so sorry, I did not mean to say that"

He just laughed and laughed at me being so upset. I kept apologizing and said I was too in to the characters. His calm and cool reply to it: "You are my best friend out here, and people call me that all the time in a hateful way (and someone did earlier that day as we walked to my house, and he just waved and said hi to them) this is the first time I get to kill some dumb ass for calling me that"

I felt terrible about it, but he saw it as me playing the game as best I could. Not long after that my friend joined the army to become a surgeon. We threw him a big party (we had cookies and milk that was as black as midnight, we tried all the colors mom had in her food coloring stuff). He had a ball, and I cried when he left. Have never heard from him again, as he went to the army and I moved all around myself. I hope to god he is ok and doing well.

High school friendships I guess are like that. Graduate, go your seperate ways.

Sometimes we say things we don't mean. That was one of those days. Outside of that, we had a damn good time all those years.

have a lovely way of telling a story straight story. hey it matches your name. it is so honet, even when it doesnt make you look so good. your story touched me, chills, just like your story abut your wife.

thank you

we are all perfectly imperfect. we make oopes.....

funny thing is, I bet my whole pay for a year if I found blair today and asked him about it the whole thing he would not recall it.

It stuck with me because I was wrong - though one could argue I was right in that I played the game as it should be (we call elves pointy ears, dwarves a variety of names, and so on). But it bothered me when I was 16/17 and some 23 years later I still remember it.

Those were some of the happiest times of my life. Growing up can suck sometimes :)

we all have them. our life lessons. but then all the fun memories way out weigh.... and we get to tell ourselves in the moment we feel the shame again,.. probably the other dude doesnt even remember, it is ours to remember. and it is true.

is how it all turned out - up until today of course.

Life was so good then, even when I did not see it as such. In 23 years - what has occured? Here are some things:


Blair - went off and joined the army. Funniest guy I knew in HS.

David J - moved off to PA. Went to MIT. Black guy, smart as a whip, but could not beat me in chess. A damn good friend for years. I wept when his car pulled away for the last time. He taught me a lot about being a liberal, even though he was a conservative mostly. His dad was a preacher and a fine man, but blinded imho on some things. David taught me a lot about racism - and a lot about learning and growing.

Scott Dement: Best friend, lived down the street from me. Died in a car accident at 27. Last words were, tell my wife I love her. She was pregnant with thier first child.

Brian and Blair and Bart (two doors down on left): Brian died of a heart attack in his 20's. Was a football player and as buff as could be. Brother blair died of aids. Bart got some bad drugs and his brain is fried, he walks around the hood a lot and we talk some, but he is not all there anymore.

Jimmy (two doors down on right): Killed a guy. Did some time. Did some drug selling, still does, and other things. His kids play with mine, but he is a little messed up.

Mary, Pat, Marietta, Tom, Larry, Barb, Mrs Herdmann (whose house I now live in): all close neighbors and good friends of the family. All died in recent years - 3 of them in last 20 months, including my mom.

Tracy: When his mom died, then soon after that his dad, he blew all his money, lost the house, and not sure where he is living now.

And it goes on far beyond that. I moved to CA and made some friends. One of which was Brady, who died on Thanksgiving day of an accidental overdose of his pain meds.

Sadly, I could go on for another hour with the stories - at least.

So I look back to the time when I was playing D&D with my buddy Blair. And I think to myself, I would so love to go back to that time. But then too I would be missing out on the here and now, and a little girl, now five, who calls me dad-do and calls me at work asking me to come home and play.

Time is a cruel bastard. But it tempers it with other things. What once was has been painfully ripped away - and that is not even including my 3 sons whom I have not seen in 8 years and my X who died last July (long story there, and it is killing me where my 3 kids are concerned).

Life sucks. Then it gets better. Then you find the love of your life, build you dreams, and have them fucked up by a disease there is no cure for.

What's a guy to do? Live it, suck it up, and keep trucking.

That is, perhaps, while I am so patient in some ways during the bush years. Sucks today, but if we have no hope for tomorrow then what the hell are we bothering for? I have hope. I know my wife will get worse (and has recently), but I hope someday she and I will sit on the porch and know we did our best for out little girl.

We got hope, we got dreams, and we have the desire to see them through. The past is missed, the future is hoped for, and the present is what we have to face when we wake up in the morning. And I guess, through it all, I would not trade the present for any other time in the world.

When I get home tomorrow I will hug my little girl as I always do, let the dogs out, check on the wife, and thank god for what I have today.

Then I will get on DU and rant like hell :)

and that includes death. you have had a lot in your life. i havent had much of any. my most profound was my mom, 59, good woman, good life with a hiccup killed herself.

things are thrown to us. that is life. my favorite saying, and i say it often. generally people feel i say it at the most inappropriate moment..... they think it is cold, but it is the way i live.

shit happens, it is what we do with that shit that is indicitive of who we are as people. what we create to live.

all in the winter of '97 a normal family, (nothing bad ever came our families way for the most part). the end of '97, a brother's wife divorces him and he handles it in a drunken rage with three young children. another brother fighting for custody of his baby daughter, from a out there woman. my dad had an affair with a 25 yr old woman, and my mom killed herself. i had a newborn and a 2 year old in a new marriage.

boom

all at once

8 years later.

we are back to the calm and nothing happening. it was the most profound time, and spiritual journey and awakening for me. i learned so much through all of that. i can value the gift in all of it. find the higher in all of it. know what to value with the time i do have here.

i think that is our opportunity in life. do we chose the higher or lower of the events universe gives to us.

(i also think the are uniquely given to us for our personal life lessons)

would be interested in your story on your sons sometime.

now,... i am off to bed. thandk you for sharing. i may be back to your story.

i want to add, thru my experience with my father, and what my mom chose to do, that is why i am so bothered with so many people today that seem to be callous, non accepting, lacking tolerance of fellow human beings. cannot accept the imperfect of who we are, though that is the unique beauty of who we are

Thanks for taking the time to talk.

Just so people realize it ain't just a guy thing.

If a boy had given you such a note - would you have kept it?

I would have been mortified

I suppose you could take the much lampooned old Atari 2600 game "Custer's Revenge". Then again both Custer and his paramour both appear to be enjoying themselves in the game...



Sorry if anyone finds that laughable excuse for a pile of pixels offensive.



None-the-less, never ever heard of rape being an option in a game. Never.

also heard "gang bang" as well. "dog pile" is another one. but it is usually strictly reserved for violent melee combat, not violent sex. especially in online games. basically it means that more than one person can attack the target enemy. a poor choice of words in front of an adult -- but the note wasn't meant for you, so it wasn't in front of an adult -- but quite harmless in the present term.

i'd chalk this up to the changing vernacular of youth. kinda like "bitch slap," "pimp slap," etc to refer to backhand or strong downward slap. or how A-shirt cut undershirts are called "wife beaters." it sounds confusing if not wholly wrong and derogatory, but that's how language changes. it just means you've found another generational difference; i seriously doubt it refers to raping in even the most remote way (unless the game comes from, and is played on in, Japan. but that's another story). the kid's probably a good kid, he just speaks in a way that you cannot relate to anymore due to age.

i'm sure if you think about it there's things you said back in the day that were verboten if said to your folks -- because they just wouldn't understand.

now if you want to talk about rape, incest, bestiality, BDSM, and wanton pornography, including essentially child porn, in video games we'd have to talk about Japan. but i'm just about 100% positive that neither kid speaks, let alone reads, Japanese. and they wouldn't have the foggiest on where to find Japanese online video games, or pay any monthly fees or other pre-reqs, let alone find the sexual ones, i'm sure you have next to nothing to worry about -- well, except to catch up to speed on the 'hip lingo' the youngin's now speak.

a few years older than your daughter?? Perhaps you could have HER talk to the daughter..

Often, our kids think WE are ancient and could not possibly have any idea of what their lives are like, BUT they might listen to someone just a wee bit older than themselves...someone who has figured out that there is MORE to life than the immediacy of teen-years..

My sons did not believe me when I told them that the "friends" they trusted so much as kids..would fade away and once out of high school their REAL life would begin..

They have all successfully navigated to adulthood, and all agree with us...NOW..

So many young girls are wooed away from their senses by a smooth guy who seems to be their ONLY interest.. Some of these smoothies have set young girls on a path they never could have imagined, and may never "recover" from..

Teens are supposed to rebel, but it's so very painful to actually go through it.. I still have the emotional "scars"... and my "baby" is almost 28..

Hugs to you..and fingers crossed that she sees the light :)

... and our "culture" makes them even more callous, and for the purpose of exploiting them.

And girls often bear the brunt of the consequences.

I feel for ya. And got no shrink-wrapped solution.

An awful lot of them are trained to act callous. Girls DESTROY boys in their teenage years, too. HELLO! Boys DO have feelings! Oh, I wasn't supposed to mention that, because boys' feelings aren't supposed to matter, and that's why they're supposed to bottle them all up and express them through sports or whatever, or else they must be GAY.

Thanks for the generalizations, but teen boys are not all booze-swilling, girl-raping frat-boy thugs, and teen girls are not all impressionable, sweet, naive innocent victims.


What an unbelievably sexist thread this is.

has had have been ruined by boys and their sexual beings.

...even when I had chances, I restrained myself, so STOP BLAMING ALL BOYS for the actions of a couple of bad ones YOUR DAUGHTER chose to hang around with.


This reminds me of my teenage years when all the girls were totally enamored of the rough boys, the skateboarders, the athletes, the testosterone-loaded brawlers, and a lot of them ended up in various kinds of trouble because of it. There were plenty of nice, quiet boys like me, but we were too dull or geeky to be given the time of day by a lot of girls who only wanted looks or thrills.

It is NOT all the fault of boys.

And your daughter is a sexual being, too. Hopefully she'll learn and be wiser in the future.

"jebus what is it with girls today?"


One of my sons made me proudest when he gave a girl her comeuppance at school. She's the daughter of a Baptist preacher or deacon or some such, and was always giving him hell about his agnostic beliefs.

After a discussion around the dinner table about this gal, he decided to fight fire with fire. She always wore revealing, scanty outfits, so he asked,

"Does your bible tell you to wear clothes like that? What does Jesus think of your cleavage showing?"
I'm sure my son didn't mind her outfits, but he was pointing out how Miss Morality-For-Everyone-But-Me is a freakin' hypocrite.

Your daughter needs a phrase or something to say when she is confronted with weird things teenage boys inevitably say. Use your wisdom, at a dinner table chat, to give her some things to think about relating to gang rape and people who make light of it.

The biggest mistake a mother can make is believing the myth that girls' hormones don't kick in the same as boys. I was a teenage girl once. Too many women forget their own past or else they are ashamed of their bodies. Dunno, but both sexes in the teenage years are crazy.

Gotta be a light for them, Mama

The market has given kids whatever they want of the most prurient and dehumanizing images they can imagine, virtually unchecked by whatever parents can do, even if they do try to do something about it. When I was a teen, we wanted all this stuff, too, but we had to sneak a magazine, very tame by today's standards, or a deck of playing cards or some "skivvy pictures." At the same time, the moral authority of churches and similar community organizations was a powerful force in shaping kids' ideas of what people "should" do. Guilt was a powerful force upon young people not far advanced along the scale of moral reasoning.

I suggest that within two generations an unfettered market and a weakened and corrupted church have essentially traded places in providing young people with what they "want" and what they "need." And as whatever there once was of family closeness and example evaporates, the wildest dreams of teenagers are coming true: unlimited violence and porn at their fingertips, without guidance or context.

Along with their wildest dreams, though, teenagers have some tamer dreams: strong clues and pointers toward a just and peaceful world. The problem is the market has been given that realm as well, and there's just no money in it.

I thought the kid was talking about how in MMORPGS (or other games, I suppose) if your side is desperately outnumbered and everyone gangs up on you. Not actual "gang rape" just a metaphor.

I don't like talking about games in general discussion because people take things too literally over here.

Anyway, I was thinking it was just a metaphor of being rushed by an overwhelming enemy with no chance to survive.

In fact, I'm sure you are right.

I don't think there's a game out there where literally raping someone is an option. GTA comes close with the beating up of prostitutes, but then again you can beat up anyone in that game, so it would be quite an omission to leave the prostitutes out of that.

When you beat an enemy in an overwhelming battle, you "rape" them. Another term used is "frag," the killing of another player or enemie in an online game.

I found this thread linked from another forum on the boards, and I just have to say... at first I was offended then I found myself laughing at the hysterics of it all.

"WHAT IS A MOTHER OF A TEEN GIRL TO DO??????????"
Oh, I don't know... something logical? Maybe talk to your daughter and ask her about the note, and explain that you weren't snooping and that you are worried, instead of coming onto an internet message board and freaking out?

Look, the guy wasn't even talking about sex in the remotest sense. Anyone who has played an online game (and yes, I realize you have not) knows that "gang rape" used in the context of an online game (typically MMORPG) is when you are insanely overwhelmed by opponents. Nothing to do with actual rape or sex. It's just slang.

I'm not shocked that when you actually confronted your daughter about the note, assuming that you were in the same mindset that you were in here, that her response was to "slowly slide her chair away" from you. Judging by your response you probably approached her with the note, shoved it in her face, and proceeded to rant about vaginal bruising, tearing, and God knows what else... and the whole time your daughter was probably sitting there thinking "My mother is a complete nutcase."

Oh, and by the way a simple rule when dealing with teenagers, especially teenage girls, this guy suddenly became cool in her book. He just caused you to spaz out, and as teenagers rebel he suddenly became cool. If he even has modest looks she likely will develop a crush on him now. Way to go. She likely told all her friends and they are having a great laugh at your expense.

"GOD I hate sex and what it does to people..."
What sex does to people? Sex is just an act. If anything you should blame the natural biological responses in humans that compel us to have sex - the need to reproduce and find mates. Of course, if your daughter is responsible - and this is a judge on you - she will learn to make wise choices when confronted with the issue.


...as for the rest of this thread. Geeze, some women need to get over themselves and take some responsibility. It's actually funny to watch some of the rampant man-hating in this thread. I suppose just having a penis makes you a monster, but I think a few women in this thread should really take a long hard look in the mirror. You ladies (if I can really call you that) sound more sexist than some of the most macho men I've ever run into.

Just being a girl doesn't make you all "sugar and spice and everything nice". Girls are just as capable of being evil, manipulative, hateful, cruel, vindictive, and yes - sexual - as any man. So get over yourselves. Your vagina doesn't make you special, and creatures that contain a penis aren't out to get you. It's women like you that give women everywhere seeking equal rights a bad name. To be blunt and honest, every time I run into women like you girls it makes me glad to be gay. I just don't know how you manage to have so much distain for an *entire* sex. It boggles my mind. Sure, some guys can be bastards - but I've met my fair share of female bitches too. It ain't all men, and I certainly wouldn't paint the entire female half of the species with the same type of brush that you are using for men, simply based on your responses in this thread.

And I'm gonna call it what it is: sexist bigotry.

So many people jump to conclusions about teenage guys and video games. This whole thing was started because of a missunderstanding of common slang used by gamers. And so many people didn't think to question it.

...the majority of people who play on-line games aren't teenagers at all, but are in their early to mid twenties.

I just find the whole thread ludicrous. I can understand how someone could misinterpret what was written in the note - hell I can even understand the worry. However, the insane jumping of conclusions (which is still ongoing even after our posts!) is just laughable. They are making themselves to look like fools, not to mention displaying how out of touch they are with the culture of the younger generation.

Most of them seem to be completely blind to the fact that since the late 1990's girls actually developed a sense of sexuality. It's okay to be a woman and be a sexual creature! Amazing! If they believe in equal rights for women, then they surely are out of touch with modern day girls. Teens today are so open about sex that it is... well mind boggling. Especially in the type of environment I grew up in. I mean, hell, you have 14 year old girls telling guys what they like in bed, and telling other girls how to give a proper blow job for Christ sake.

That's why I find it hugely laughable that so many women here are trying to portray girls as sweet, innocent, and speak as if a girl can do no wrong. If anything, it's having a mother like this who is holding women’s rights back in this country, women who set an example to their daughters that they are somehow unequal or should expect some type of special treatment from men. I never treat a woman like that - it would be a slap in their face. I treat her just like I'd treat any man, and expect the same out of her as I'd expect out of any man. As a gay male, that's all I want from straights - is to be treated just like everyone else. Why would I insult a woman by treating her "special"?

I encourage women - my female friends - to express themselves sexually. Men typically like it, provided they can accept and want a real woman. If they can't handle a woman who asserts herself, who lets him know what she wants, who isn't afraid to speak her mind, then she needs to find another man who does. The only type of women I look down on are those who insist that they are somehow subservient to men - because you are what you believe yourself to be. If you see yourself as being a victim of men, then that's all you'll ever be - a victim. If you see yourself as equal, act as an equal, then people will treat and respect you as an equal. That's the example every mother should be setting for her daughters.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. From this 21 year old female, who is damned proud of her sexuality.

:hi:

1. Snooping. I'm not exactly saying that snooping on teenage children is unwise. But it isn't exactly the moral highground. And you can only blow it once. After that they figure out you're watching and they're going to hide the notes. If you're going to blow it, it better be over something really important.

2. Telling the daughter who she can, and can't be friends with. Also, not necessarily unwise, but again there better be a damn good reason. This ain't one of them.

3. Sounds like the boy's a perfectly decent kid. No doubt this has hurt his feelings badly.

4. Taking the moral highground. Good lord.

most of your bloviating was misdirected

No, really, they completely blew it. They raised a bunch of fat, ugly, drug addicted, woman-hating little fuckwads and they don't give a damn how much of this society their negligence, laziness and amorality as caregivers is destroying.

Congratulations, moms and dads of the world, for bringing up such little dipshits. Thank you, thank you soooo much.

Some would say I didn't come from good people, because my parents lived in trailer parks. Some would say I did, because I'm white. Hmm.

This boy may have a borderline personality disorder (sociopathic) if he's getting off on this stuff. There's lots of literature out there on this -- treat your daughter like an "adult" and discuss this with her. It may or may not help. I hope it helps...

Good luck.

One of the things you get from top monthly pay games like WoW is moderators.

Race, Creed, and sexual harassment is taken very seriously. Even character names are moderated.

No way a gang event would happen because it would be reported faster than it could be organized.

Do you actually think that kids talking about online games featuring simulated gang rape is a result of "sex" as such?

I'd think a little more than just sex is involved there - after all most people do have sex, and most of those people have no interest in things such as gang rape, simulated or otherwise.

I think it's over the top to decry sex altogether.

Your post reminds me of that WP article a few days ago, quoting a Bush aid who said "sex drives people insane - it needs to be governed".

... kids today get this crap from video games and the internet - and they haven't a CLUE what they are talking about. It has nothing whatsoever to do with sex, which kids think they understand but are 10 years from having a clue :)

Never potty train them.

I'm 32 and starting to feel like an old fart.

I don't buy the argument that "Kids these days are so much worse than in my day..blah..blah..blah."

But I do think there has been a subtle change in society's perception and expectations of teenage girls over the last 15 years or so - particularly when it comes to sex.

We - as a society - are definitely sexualizing children at a much younger age and stimulating them with the idea that they should be talking about sex, thinking about sex, and having sex.

Teenage boys have lived in this world forever. Teenage girls really haven't until recently. And I don't think we've equippd them to deal with it.

This is not terribly well though out and I am not giving any advice, except maybe to talk to her about your expectations for her and your fears regarding her.

"Teenage boys have lived in this world forever. Teenage girls really haven't until recently."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

What a complete joke!! He,he,he!!
:)














ps. You were just kidding, right? :shrug:

:rofl:

Edited to add...

Yes!! Boys AND girls are interested in sex BUT the boys are really, really bad!!! :sarcasm:

"my daughter had a boyfriend that talked her into doing some things that got her in severe trouble"

Girls would NEVER think about those things, BY THEMSELVES!!! :sarcasm:
:rofl:

Why was your daughter discussing that game and 'gang rape' with that boy??? :shrug:

In 'Grand Theft Auto' there is a 'feature' that you can 'activate' or 'deactivate'; using a 'code';
that has prostitutes and gang rapes. Not that I condone that because I don't!
Just saying!


My parents always blamed ME for 'bad behavior'.... not the boys!!

It's called taking responsibility!

Maybe you need to read this book?


http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060957409&tc=cx
Slut!
Growing Up Female with a Bad Reputation
by Leora Tanenbaum

Chapter One

Insult of Insults

Excerpt at link...

Sorta. I taught freshmen and sophomores for two years and lemme tell ya...its was a WAKE UP CALL to how far OUR societies morays and norms have shifted (in some ways radically) to what kids consider 'normal' today. I was in shock for like the whole first 6 weeks. I did my best to help 'civilize' my students. Most just want to do drugs, hang out with friends and have sex.

It DOESN'T MATTER how someone does academically or their upbringing - they still might be the biggest perv in school. Ya never know. Maybe you should sit down with your daughter and talk about the scenario between you and her and this guy. Maybe look into the future a little (have her tell you what her expectations are) and see how the things she does now will affect her when she is, say, 20. I play video games (some ultra-violent) and have done so for over 20 years and I would NEVER play a game that had a gang rape option. That sounds very bad and needs to be stopped before virtual becomes real-time.

we have had some great conversations since this post.



I feel a lot better about her outlook and values. I also understand that sometimes things are out of context

Per request of original poster