Would you patronize this dude's bar?

Click on the right arrow to scroll through his signs.

http://casadice.com/signs/pages/outside_sign.htm

And the place looks downright depressing.

:rofl:

the point of the Social Security "recipiants" getting $3 raise, and Iraq getting billions, seniors get to survive, Iraqis get to vote

pretty good point to post

:o

Just because he agrees about the issue doesn't mean he's agreeing for good reasons. David Duke's people are also against the war, but that doesn't make them our allies. I expect that a lot of right-wing types who are angry at the Bush policies are going to go *farther* to the wacky right, rather than joining with the left, and I think this person's an example of that phenomenon.

The enemy of my enemy may be an even more dangerous enemy, in this case.

Tucker

show glimmers of hamfisted drunk awarenessseses
pounding nonsense on the table
catch the eye of the bartender
get poured more wisdom

I'd walk in there with a big sign saying "Give Peace a Chance" and other buttons voicing my disapproval of the war in Iraq. I'm not scared of some dumbass Freepin Creep.
Ringo

At least the owner(s) don't hide their conservatism.

I hang out at a Republican-owned bar, but they're nothing like that. Sure one of them owns a hummer, but the other one owns a hybrid. At least they even it out.

On edit: Why am I not surprised it's in PA?

i think i'll take a pass.

http://www.casadice.com/index.htm

Ozzie, I'm disappointed in you.

Like it matters.

Ozzy is braindead anyways!

was Ozzy.

Maybe an impersonator. Looks way too young - and clean.

The Oz doesn't smile.

Ugh.... Does that make me a bad person?

I especially like the second one regarding seatbelt laws and why kids on a bus go back and forth to school without them. Damn fine point. Seatbelt laws are in the interest of the insurance companies (in fact if it weren't for insurance companies we would never see these laws). I wear my seatbelt all the time, because I choose to. Just like smoking laws, if I own a bar and want my patrons to have the ability to smoke in it - it should be my fucking right.

Our freedoms are being pissed away.

But, most of the signs are down right retarded.

EDIT :

Oh, I might patronize his bar, depends on the drink specials and the food :)

What is it that you do after you encounter a "damn fine point"? Are you at all curious about why seat belts aren't required on school buses?

we press "2" for English if we don't have a "rotory" phone?

Cause I'm pretty sure that it was the Bush administration and not anti-war protestors who let him get away. Or maybe it was Clinton's penis.

I LIKE some of those signs, a few of them made me laugh my ass off!
This guy seems an equal-opportunity offender!

I think I would go there only on days when I agreed with his sign.

Like the one about kids on a schoolbus...and the ones about fucking high gas prices...and, quite frankly, the ones about speaking English. sorry, folks, the language thing is one of those points I know that, among liberals, I'm in a minority, but too damned bad if you don't like it.
Agree to disagree with me, if you must, but I will not tolerate being ripped and called a bigot or a xenophobe, simply because I believe we MUST have a common language.

Like I said, disagree with me if you will, we can agree to disagree, but the personal attacks are not necessary or appreciated...and they are not correct, either...I'm neither a racist nor a xenophobe, nor a bigot.

I believe we liberals roll over for just about everyone far too easy, and then they walk all over us and laugh. This is one point on which I damn well am sticking to my guns. English, or get the hell out.

I press "2", I click "Spanish" and so do my friends and family. We do it specifically to counter this "English only" bullshit. I was born and raised here in the U.S.A., so you can cram the "English or get the hell out" crap. You have no more right to be here than I have.

I fucking REFUSE to speak spanish. I CAN, a little bit...but I simply REFUSE to. THIS IS AMERICA. Learn English.

what you speak among youreselves, in your own homes or whatever, I give a shit.

but don't ask ME to pay more taxes for roadsigns in Spanish, and everything else, simply because a bunch of immigrants REFUSE to learn English!

I'm not above helping these people out, but I am NOT going to make it easy for them to simply REFUSE to learn English.

And that is what most of them do.

Sorry, but they can keep the Spanish below the Rio Grande. We fought a war for that.

And I expect nothing from you. But if a company wants MY business or my families' business or my friends' business, they had better offer Spanish, or at least not have the hostile attitude you have.

You might want to recheck your history on the Mexican-American war though, and re-read the Treaty of Hidalgo. If you think the U.S. was in the right with that war, you need to take a history class.

1. Good. Fine. But don't expect ME to cater to you, because I won't. English only.

2. I don't care who was right....we won.

What about the Iraq war? Does it matter what we do as long as we "win"?

and you know it.

I'm not even going to GRACE this with further response.

In fact, Welcome to My Ignore List.

And you got caught. And that always hurts.

Either the reason behind going to war matters in EVERY case, or it doesn't matter. You can't pick and choose.

I saw this before I got to hit the Ignore button on you.

I'm not going to let you walk off thinking you won, because you didn't.

I'm just not willing to allow you to raise my blood pressure, and start a flame war.

I won't have it.

so you are on Ignore for a while, until you knock it off.

P.S. I simply do not care who was "right" or "wrong" in the Mexican-American War. And I wasn't even REFERRING to that one anyway, which you'd know if you had studied GEOGRAPHY!! I said we fought a war to keep spanish below the Rio Grande! Obviously, I was referring to the Texas/Mexico war.

Who gives a flying SCREW about the Mexican-American War? I don't.

As to Iraq, I was against it. From the get-go.
And the reason I was is because I knew it was just for oil. Iraq was guilty of none of the things Bush said it was. We all knew it.

You are as bad as Bush, "You're with us or you're against us" Black and white. sometimes, there is a gray.

And in the case of the Mexican-American War - WHICH I WAS NOT EVEN REFERRING TO WITH MY COMMENTS...there's an area called "WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?"

Since you still haven't done that. I'm honestly curious.

I probably won't change my opinion on that matter too soon either. So perhaps it's for the best if we just stay out of each other's way.

Go ahead and say the last word. If that helps you.

One word: cuckoo-bananas:crazy: (or is that two words?)

If you literally meant "below the Rio Grande", what's your excuse for California, Nevada, New Mexico and Utah?

you end up in a foreign land, and NO ONE will speak English for you.

I suspect many Americans hate foreign languages because they're paranoid, afraid someone might be talking about them in another tongue. In your case, as much as you dislike the sound of someone else's language, it's probably not paranoia. They probably ARE talking and laughing at you.

And BTW, does this mean we have to change all of our place names to English names? Los Angeles? Las Vegas? Santa Fe? Do you call them by their English names? If not, you're speaking Spanish.

Ooooh!!!! Does it hurt?

Actually this weekend, I am flying from "monks" (french) to "the fertile plain", "snowfall" (spanish).

These freakin people, it would help if we spoke "english" in the first place. American language is ever-evolving...why the hell try to stop it now?

yes, this is great.

Las Vegas, Nevada must OFFICIALLY be called, The Fertile Plain, Snowfall.

The state of Snowfall. Kinda fits :rofl:

BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO FUCKING EVOLVE!! I want it to stay the way I know it. After I die, I give a shit care less. i'm lazy, I refuse to learn a new language. Not in MY country, anyway.

That the language you speak has been evolving since the formation of this country, as has most every language. For you to think that it suddenly needs to halt because YOU are the "decider", doesn't mean it's going to.

It might be different if you actually spoke "English".

I speak a language generally understood in this country. I don't want that language to be replaced by one that I don't. This is MY country, and the immigrants are invading and trying to force their way on us, and I, for one, will not stand for it.

You speak English to me, or forget talking to me at all. And don't let me catch you talking ABOUT me in a foreign language.

making a concerted effort to force "their" way on you. You don't have to speak Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever. You don't have study Latin American History in schools or Chinese history or Indian history. You don't have to eat true ethnic foods. You can stick to your roast beef and apple pie and what have you. Seriously, what makes you feel so threatened? The more you reply, the more xenophobic you sound.

You don't want your language to be replaced by one that you don't understand? WAKE UP! You replaced your grandfather's language, who replaced his, who replaced his, who sure in the hell replaced my Cherokee ancestors' language. Languages change.

This is not YOUR country, it is OUR country, and no one is "forcing" their way on you.

Adios!

of language is one thing. Complete obliteration of the one I know, and replacement of it with one I don't know is what I'm objecting to.

what gives you more rights than we had?

yea, yea we lost so we should just shut up.

and if you lose, will you just shut up?

Because I will fight to the death.

No one is obliterating English....except us as Americans. Ha!

Seriously though, even as we speak "American" you must understand that we use hundreds if not thousands of words that were adopted from other languages and cultures, which were picked up because we live in a land that has traditionally been home to mulitple cultures speaking multiple languages. We've always had Italian immigrants that spoke Italian, French who spoke French, etc. Hell, in Iowa I know for a fact that we once had signs in German due to our rich German heritage. I sure as heck don't speak German.

I won't assume anything, but your posts surely make you sound scared of foreign cultures.....and that, my friend, isn't an attractive trait in anyone.

Spanish will have it's time here in America, just like the languages before it, and in time our language will change - slowly becoming more spanish-influenced until it is different than our language today. Part of that process, the part you are struggling with, is that spanish-speaking immigrants will naturally continue to speak spanish, just as the germans, french, and italians before them.

It's what makes America beautiful, and it is what keeps our "culture" thriving.

I am terrified of being old, infirm, in need of medical assistance, and unable to coomunicate my needs, thus resulting in me suffering and dying. do you get it?

The prevalence of English/Spanish bilingualism doesn't threaten the ability of English monolinguals to communicate.

Tucker

spanish becomes the dominant language, and we end up with a bunch of folk who CAN'T speak English!!

Look at the examples of primarily non-English-speaking communities who have become assimilated and you will see that bilingualism doesn't lead to eventual loss of the original language unless the original language is purposely discouraged.

The more realistic scenario is that a generation from now, most American kids will speak English and Spanish both, not Spanish only.

Tucker

obviously, they will discourage their children from learning English as well.

it's obviously because they refuse to. English is SO DAMNED EASY!!

You missed AlienGirl's point earlier entirely re: plasticity of the mind with age. Interesting POV, as well, from someone who has already stated that she won't learn Spanish out of laziness.

all these fucking male versus female words and horseshit like that...ENGLISH doesn't have that sort of shit.

What the hell makes a fucking BANANA "female"

Too fucking hard. English, at least, is easy.

English, easy? :rofl:

Tucker

This has to be satire.

people who don't actually want to have a rational discussion without personal isults. they started firing first, I'm responding in kind.

and it's a great way to get my post count the fuck out of the 700 Club!

English is only easy if you learned it as a child; it is actually one of the harder languages for an adult to learn, along with Russian and Mandarin.

Tucker

They are not "refusing" to learn English; they simply, in many cases, *can't*.

You say you are afraid of being unable to communicate your needs in Spanish, but you are unable to learn Spanish; why do you assume Spanish-speakers are able to learn English easily?

Tucker

I'm not about to move to Mexico any time soon...why the hell do they gotta come here and screw up our country?

Before the Mexican-American War, the US southwest was part of Mexico. Why did we move the border to include non-English speaking populations?

they were supposed to move along with the border.

Did not kick out any Mexicans and offered all of the Mexicans living in the territories annexed American citizenship with full rights granted. The treaty even called for protection of the native language of the Mexicans but once gold was discovered in California, property and language rights were ignored. Anyhow, no Mexicans were kicked out. Your ignorance is astounding.

Your argument has distilled to "I don't like Mexicans."

Tucker

English speakers are welcome!

Do you hate them all or just the ones that that don't act like you?

And I am done.

I haven't called her names, I've tried the whole "rational" approach...but arguing with someone who says to "go back home" and that male/female nouns are "horseshit" is either entirely satirical, or is ignorant beyone repair.

Peace out girl scout..

Good luck!

She put me on ignore for not appreciating her xenophobic ways but the fact is that immigrants are learning English and much more rapidly than ever before.
1) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/can-pop.htm
2) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/census02.htm Thanks.

Now, you tell me.

and you know what? I PREPARED MYSELF FOR IT I brought along flash cards with common phrases in English and Thai. I went there to undergo fucking surgery. And I didn't expect anyone to bow down and speak English for me! I was in a foreign country, and I knew it....and I prepared myself accordingly.

As to your purile insults, I will not tolerate them. You are going on Ignore.

You want to disagree with me, fine...BUT YOU WILL DO IT RESPECTFULLY, GODDAMN YOU!

I will NOT take your fucking insults!

:rofl:

seriously, this has got to be satire.

Gracias
what a beautiful Language Spanish is.

disrespect, however, is not.

As yet, you have not committed an offense.

Enlightened attitude. "Might is right" eh? How...Republican.

did I say that? I said I didn't give a rat's ass, really.

But to go and throw the "Republican" label at someone you don't even know?? How insulting! Just because I will stand up on this one issue and this one principle, and I refuse to back down on it?

Enlightened attitude on your part...Welcome to my fucking ignore list.

I won't let people around here raise my blood pressure.

You want to disagree with me, you will do it respectfully. You WILL NOT hurl insults. that will get you ignored. I don't have to tolerate it, and I won't.

Hypocritical much? Just askin...not that you'll see this because I'm on ignore. But I can point it out for others.

And you're absolutely right.

So If I hunt you up and beat the crap out of you that makes my opinion more correct and more valid?You're obviously a joke.By the by, who died and left you in charge, and what level of english are we talking about, so many murcan speakers are so very poor in their "native" language may we discriminate on that basis too?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

against the rules to IMPLY same, by your post. And you have done so.

So I shall react in the appropriate manner.

Incidentally...no one ever told me that, to be a liberal, that I couldn't have strong feelings about something, and refuse to cave in on it. This is a major problem I see with liberals...even myself, in most cases...we are too willing to GIVE IN...and this might be why we don't win elections.

We gotta STAND UP for something, or be trampled underfoot.

This happens to be one thing I refuse to roll over on. That makes me a bad person?

i'll admit...it's laziness, pure and simple, I DON'T FUCKING WANT TO LEARN SPANISH, ok? and since it's MY country, I don't damn well think I should HAVE to.

Somebody picked a really incorrect user name. So much vitriol from new comer is shocking. What happened to manners? Hi U4! :hi:

Get over it. What are you standing up to? English? English is very strong language. It doesn't need help from you. Stand down. With views like this, the DLC seems to be more your speed or worse. Listen to Faux News much?

You want to disagree with me, you will do so with respect.

Off to Ignoreland with you, Maestro.

"adios"? ;-)

:hi:

Funny - my Spanish is piss-poor but I regard it as a personal failing that I want to correct. :shrug:

:hi:

I consider their failure to learn English as THEIR FAILING. I have no desire to learn anyone else's pidgen...or to hear it.

:eyes:

scare me so badly.

Imagine you are old, infirm, and in need of medical care and attention. Imagine you are unable to communicate those needs, and so you suffer and die.

THAT IS WHAT I AM AFRAID OF HAVING HAPPEN!!

There are still nursing homes and retirement facilities that use languages other than English in places with large immigrant communities in the US that have mostly assimilated and where the majority of the young people in the community are bilingual with English. I am specifically thinking of the Swedish/English facilities that still exist in parts of the northen Midwest.

If their common language can be preserved well enough in second and third generations to continue to provide care for aging Swedish-speakers who know no English, or have forgotten the English they know, why on Earth would the growing prevalence of bilingual English/Spanish speakers create a scenario where there were no services available for aging English-speakers? That just isn't how languages in a multilingual country work!

Tucker

They will outlaw English. They hate us.

I work with immigrants on a daily basis. They love us and what this country has to offer. They may hate you though because of your xenophobia. Wow. And you are a democrat? :eyes: Is Mann Coulter here?

A significant portion of the population was happy to use me to practice their English. I did not encounter that hatred you speak of.

Tucker

Since they may prefer to speak with their kids in Spanish in public, perhaps to assure there will still be Spanish speakers around when they are old and infirm.

Tucker

They know English!! Problem solved!

that the nursing industry is desperately in need of Spanish speakers. You have nothing to fear but you will anyway.

but when you know you can't back up what you say with facts, that tends to happen. It's sort of like Cheney. :rofl:

Man, you have to hate it when facts get in the way. :rofl:

"The Fertile PLain, Snowfall?"

Because if you say "Las Vegas, Nevada" you are damned straight talkin' Messican!

I'd better straighten out my lexicon.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I am appalled by the downright hostility you show to Spanish Language, and speakers Ie "invasion" etc. How wonderful, Texas drove the Spanish speakers out and brought in slavery .Then proceded to mistreat said,(Mex)citizens for a hundred years. Ah yes those were the days

who wants to come in and try to take over my country!

Damn right.

They can learn English. If they do, they are welcome here by me. If not, they can go back home as far as I'm concerned.

I don't want an invasion of folks who REFUSE to learn English coming here.

If I may be so bold...

my biggest fear is being old, infirm, and in need of medical attention...and unable to communicate those needs, and, as a result, suffer and die.

I went thru three weeks, BY MY OWN CHOICE, of needing medical care in a country where English was not dominant. It scared the fuck out of me. I needed to communicate what I was feeling, what I needed, and had a difficult time doing so. It scared the hell out of me.

Add to that the fact that I suffered from post-anesthesia dysphasia...maybe now you get a better idea why this shit scares the hell out of me.

to demand that those not fluent in English stop at the border? Sorry for your experience, but I would suggest that this is an overreaction.

:think:

You know borders are completely artificial, right?

Wheee!

I wish we could stop people like you on the Calif border

NOW you have made my Ignore list.

We fought a war for that? Not quite. The war had nothing to do with language. Educate yourself please: http://home.sandiego.edu/~villegas/

Jeez, all I can do is shake my head at that one.

:evilgrin:

English has served us well for 200 years, if the immigrants don't like it, and refuse to learn it, then let them go back home. Country did fine without 'em for over 200 years.

Immigrants who want to learn English are more than welcome.

but I think we did fine speaking Aleut (Alaska to Greenland), Na-Dene' (Western Canada and SW U.S) and Amerind (everywhere else including all of Central and South America) before all you Europeans showed up.

but since we were killed off "fair and square" I'm sure my opinion holds no merit with you.

We won...you lost...the victors make the rules.
Life goes on. Seems you adjusted well enough.

yet some of us still speak our native languages, so... who really 'won'?

who's dick is bigger than whose.
If that's all you got to say, then just leave it.

you would have to say your rights trump ours (and you have been actually, by your replies in this thread)

I find the disconnect between your insistence that we not trample on your gender rights and your trampling on our language rights completely baffling.

one more shot like that earns you a trip to Ignore.

I've agreed with you on your other threads that you should not lose your rights, or be a second class citizen.

Exactly the opposite of what you are arguing for here.

Hence my confusion.

We are talking about ILLEGALS!!

In order to become a citizen, one must demonstrate an acceptable grasp of the English language! It's part of the rules, man!!

It's like talking to a box of rocks.

I won't discuss things with people who resort to personal insults.

an insult would be if I called you dumber than a box of rocks.

my comment was a description of my feelings about trying to discuss this with you. I would make more progress with a box of rocks.

Faster than before. Please look at my links! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1430861&mesg_id=1434499

somehow, I just don't think that's going to happen.

She probably buys into this crap from www.fairus.org which is run by this reichwing nut, John Tanton.

I've always been of the belief that English is the de facto national language and everyone would be on a more equal footing if they all spoke English -- it just makes things easier.

My parents are immigrants and speak three languages, but when conversing outside the home, they speak English, as they should.

However, this guy in the article also used terms like "wetback" and also attacked LEGAL immigrants, so he clearly has another agenda at work. He's just using the English thing as an excuse, ironic since his bar has the Spanish word "casa" in it.

There's this belief floating around that Mexicans don't want to learn the language. That's just not true. We're not stupid. We know what a disadvantage it is not knowing the language in a country that hates you. But it is difficult and most people are poor and/or working long hours. Just like the waves of immigrants that came before however, the second generation will speak English and Spanish and the third will probably only speak English. Such is the way things go. How many people don't have a grandparent or great-grandparent or some other relative that doesn't speak English well?

But regardless, whether or not we disagree on that issue, I think we can both agree that this guy is taking it further than that.

Since many Mexicans and Central Americans eventually come here, why not mandate learning English in those countries? That would certainly make it easier for everybody, particularly since children learn languages the fastest.

I live in Los Angeles (well, for the next two weeks, anyway), and I hear Spanish spoken all the time, fitting since it's called "los angeles." I have absolutely no problem with Spanish, myself knowing a bit of it as well, but many of these people are also at a severe disadvantage by not knowing English. It is to their benefit that they learn English. I realize it's difficult, but it is possible to do so.

But I'm not singling out Spanish, either. A friend of mine in NYC had a Polish landlord who could barely speak English. A simple statement like "The faucet is leaking" would confound him. True, he managed to make it in the Polish section of Brooklyn, where he lived, but he's missing out on so much more by not knowing English.

when you're out in public, in this country, you speak ENGLISH. When you are conducting business in this country, you speak ENGLISH. When you deal with our government, you speak ENGLISH. Wehn you deal with ME, you speak English. What you do in your own home, among yourselves is your own damn business. but don't ask or expect us to cater-ass to you, just because you REFUSE to learn English!

I know, this attitude is not very popular here, and I don't really give a shit. For the most part, I am very liberal, and I have good reason to be. but, damn it, no one said that, to be liberal, you can't stand up for something you believe in, and refuse to back down! No one said that, to be a liberal, you have to cave in, give up, roll over...for everyone and everything...and let everyone WALK ALL OVER YOU.

This language thing is just one thing I happen to feel very strongly about. and I'm not backing down, and I am not changing my mind. I am too lazy to want to learn anyone else's pidgen. THEY came HERE, they can speak English, or they can forget about knowing me.

Now. That said...agree with me, or disagree with me as you will. BUT I DEMAND THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH ME IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER. I will tolerate no insults. NONE. As far as I am concerned, ANY insult earns the hurler a trip to my ignore list, because I just won't tolerate it. You can agree to disagree, and do so respectfully, we can talk. Not that you'll change my mind. BUT...I totally refuse to be insulted.

I have been savaged on this list because of this view. I do not care. I will not change my mind, I am standing firm on this...my policy is "English Or Fuck Off." I will engage in respectful debate (no personal insults) with anyone, on any subject. But the instant a personal insult is delivered, that person is ignored.

Los necios son necios. No hay nada que podamos hacer. :shrug:

What is your basis for determining that English is the only language that should be spoken in public, or between a business and a customer in this country?

Would a public prohibition on languages other than English be applicable to tourists? Would a person only be allowed into this country if they fluently spoke english? Why does what one person say to another person matter to you, if you're not either one of those people? Why would it make you angry that other people would speak something other to english to each other, when it is easier for them to speak that language?

If a business and a a customer choose to conduct business in this country in Spanish or French or 2nd Century Classical Latin, how is that anyone else's business? What purpose would that law have to do anything but oppress first generation migrants who still have difficultly with the English language? Would it apply to tourists? Would an Air France stewardess not be allowed to speak French to a passenger until they left U.S. airspace?

I can follow and understand arguments for a single governmental language, and for you personally only wishing to communicate in English, but the first two I don't understand. Can you explain your position more?

I don't want my country taken over, and then me forced into learning another language.

Thank you for debating respectfully, without personal insults. i'll address this more, later on, but I have some stuff to do right now.

And when you say "taken over" you seem to imply that the presence of people other than those of your kind is harmful. That is the definition of xenophobia. There is no place for xenophobia in a progressive site like DU. Off with ya.

I'm curious to understand your viewpoint.

"when you're out in public, in this country, you speak ENGLISH. . . This language thing is just one thing I happen to feel very strongly about. and I'm not backing down, and I am not changing my mind. I am too lazy to want to learn anyone else's pidgen. THEY came HERE, they can speak English, or they can forget about knowing me."

So, for someone to know you, they must never speak Spanish in public? That just seems sad to me.

like politenss, manners, amd yes customer service. Nothing like a bunch of dull witted gringos to show you how decency as crept downward. for example the Latinos say "good morning.. pm, etc" before asking directions, Murkins just grunt outsomething that sounds like a question. Sad to see such Hate as the "liberal Girl" manages to regurgitate.

After all, most people can respectfully disagree with someone who says: "For pragmatic reasons, I think the country needs one commonly accepted language, and because I don't ever want to learn Spanish I think we should declare English the official language."

But expecting to say things like: "English of Fuck Off" and not have a negative response is (at the risk of being put on your ignore list) not particularly rational.


So a family out in public can't speak Spanish (or Chinese or French or German) amongst themselves? Merely HEARING non-English words--even those not directed at you--is enough to piss you off? Tell you what. When I'm in public, I'll speak whatever fucking language I want to.


So if a company wants to offer the additional service of foreign-language assistance, you don't think they should be allowed to? Or you just don't think anyone should ever take advantage of it. I use the Spanish language option to practice the language sometimes. So I'll tell you another thing: When I'm conducting business in this country, how about you leave it up to me and whomever I'm conducting business with to decide how we communicate. Because it's really none of your business. And if the massive inconvenience of having to press "1" is really that upsetting to you, I suggest you don't use the telephone for customer service. Just because simply hearing spanish spoken--even when not directed at you--is enough to piss you off doesn't mean you should expect businesses to "cater-ass to you" by eliminating spanish language options.



I wish I knew how to say "red-herring" in spanish, because that's really all this is. Of course you can stand up for what you believe in as a liberal. Why would anyone suggest that you can't?

Presumably, this comment began as a preemptive strike against the criticism you would receive for a comment such as "English, or get the hell out." Of course, if held a similarly opposing view about many other issues and expressed it with the same strident disregard for the feelings of others, you would, quite naturally, be greeted with similar scorn. "Straight, or get the hell out." "Have the baby, or get the hell out." "Convert to Christianity, or get the hell out." "Support the war, or get the hell out." "Get a job, or get the hell out." "Get rid of Affirmative Action, or get the hell out." "Get off welfare, or get the hell out."

So perhaps if you really want civil debate and you really DEMAND THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH ME IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER you should start by adopting a respectful manner yourself.

And while you're at it, it might help if you were to explain exactly how people are expecting you to "cater-ass" to them. Because I'm confused by that. I've lived in areas that are highly hispanic, and never had any problem going about my day without speaking anything other than english, unless i wanted to.

Thanks.

another language amongst themselves. Yeesh.

And I always love it when people make rude and insensitive posts and then act like martyrs when people call them on it, as if they're being criticized for "standing their ground" :eyes:

talking ABOUT me, making rude comments or jokes about me. If I don't understand what they are saying, then it's rude.

Just as whispering in front of other people is rude.

Most people, most of the time, are too wrapped up in their own stuff to bother noticing anyone else. Think of your own behavior when you're out with friends--how often do you quietly make rude comments or jokes about people you see to your friends? If you're like most people, not often, because it doesn't occur to you unless you've been in a conflict with someone. What are you usually talking about with your friends? If you're like most people, it will be where to eat, things you want to buy, politics, and areas of common interest like that. Chances are *very* high that any random stranger talking in a foreign language is talking about the same kinds of things, and not about you.

Are you similarly pissed off when you see people conversing in ASL? If not, why not?

Tucker

spanish is rude? I think listening to other people's conversations is rude.

is spouting out this crap. Wow!

how do I know they aren't making jokes, insults or rude comments about me?

You really have problems. I feel sorry for you.

yeesh. :eyes:

Because nobody has an obligation to make their personal conversations transparent to you.

Why should we cater to you?

continue to reply.

Guess what?

I CAN'T HEEEEEEEAR YOUUUUUUUUUU!!!

When you are ready to disagree in a civil manner, and refrain from personal insults, you can find a way to communicate that to me, thru an intermediary, and I'll consider taking you off ignore.

But as long as you insist on continuing personal insults, on Ignore you will remain.

So why bother responding, when I won't see your "clever" remarks and insults?

are involved in this conversation besides you.

Now for a sincere question: You seem very worried about people speaking in spanish because they might be making fun of you without your knowledge. Does it bother you that when you're on ignore, they might be doing the same thing?

I know that may sound like a snarky question, but I don't mean it that way. I'm honestly curious.

Welcome to Ignore, fishwax.

Incidentally...why are they responding to MY COMMENTS?? Because they are probably continuing to hurl invective and personal insults.

Because they lack the intelligence to debate in a civilized, respectful manner.

I did not start the invective and personbal insult here. I'm merely giving attitude back to people who gave it to me first.

you first responded to my post to another user.

I purposely did not respond to you because of the tenor of your replies to the other posters.

The tenor of my arguments has gotten worse since people have continued hurling insults.

If someone wants rational, reasoned discussion out of me, they can stop hurling insults!!

Why the hell do you think I'm throwing everyone on IGNORE??

So that I can cool down, and thus respond rationally, to those who want a civilized discussion without personal insults being hurled.

You wanna be a part of that discussion or not?

Your call.

cares enough to discuss you in a language you assume they presume you don't know? This sounds like it's more personal than a matter of policy.

Does seeing people conversing in ASL piss you off as much, too? If not, why not?

Tucker

How do you know I don't know ASL? Perhaps I have deaf friends and relatives? Ya think?

Whispering in front of other people is rude. So is speaking in a language you presume others around you do not know, so that they cannot participate in the discussion.

ASL does not piss me off...people who use ASL do so BECAUSE IT IS NECESSARY for them. Spanish people can damn well learn English, they just REFUSE to. That's a whole different ball of wax.

Someone who is deaf cannot help it.

similarly, blind people, with seeing eye dogs. I love dogs...I love to pet them and play with them. But I know better than to do that with a seeing-eye dog. That is showing respect for the blind person.

When Spanish speaking people, who DAMN WELL CAN SPEAK ENGLISH refuse to do so, around people who only speak English, it's rude.

to know what others are saying in a private conversation?

They are just as impaired by their brains losing their plasticity as a deaf person is by being deaf. They, also, cannot help it, and recognizing this is showing respect for people who do not have unusually plastic brains that allow them to acquire new languages after puberty.

Tucker

Personally, I find your excessive use of profanity is much more offensive than 2 people conversing in a foreign language. Maybe it's because I don't feel that it is my business to know what strangers are discussing.

BTW, would your "English only in public" rule apply to the conversations I have with my son to help him with his honors Spanish course?

It's entirely possible for someone such as yourself to demand English be spoken and to also NOT be a racist -- I totally understand.

But this guy in the article used racial slurs and complained that white people would become the minority, so it's clear he has a different agenda in mind.

BTW, when you say "English or Fuck Off," isn't that a personal insult?

English is spoken more frequently and is learned much more rapidly than immigrants than ever before. Just because more people are choosing to speak their mother tongue when in the company of others who do speak that language doesn't mean they do not want to learn English. In fact, they probably already know English. I am one. I speak Spanish and English all the time. Got a problem with that? Tough.

Stop falling for the reichwing talking points on English. It's not in danger. Just look at the latest census figures.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/can-pop.htm and see here as well http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/census02.htm English is being learned at much faster rates than before. With which people seem uncomfortable is that people like myself and SemiCharmedQuark speak both frequently. I guess people just want us to stick to one. Sorry, it won't happen. Expand your horizons. In fact, my Anglo family has roots in Mexico where they spoke both English and Spanish.

The family saloon and barber shop in Torreón, México.

That's really not been the norm throughout history in any country I can think of. I'm curious why you believe it to be so critical.

Congress declares it should be Navajo or one of the many Amerind languages? Insisting on English only defines the bigotry without anyone having to say a single word.

The fact is that government and business are conducted in English in the United States, so there is no need to make a point of saying this and it makes the man's mindset very suspect.

Not enough people speak Navajo for that.

but, if, in our foundation...Navajo had become the common language...I would thus have learned it growing up, and I'd have been fine with it, and I'd be here today telling people to speak Navajo or get the hell out.

When I state that you are a bigot, a xenophobe, and probably a racist.

Cheers!

:toast:

Being ignored by a bigot is an honor for me!

Look at Switzerland. They can't even produce cheese without gaping holes in it.

:rolleyes:

Disculpe.

ignore was only for insults?

:shrug:

:rofl:

He seems to have quite a thing about pressing 1 to proceed in English. On second thought, it might be fun to walk in and ask to use the phone, make a call, make out like you've gotten an automated answering system, and complain loudly about how there's no choice to proceed in Angry White Man language. What a crock of shit!

I love it.

2 men trying to president
will spend 125 million each
for a job that pays 400,000
must have a good dental plan


LOL

African Lobstertails, Shrimp Romano, Linguini, Scrod Lorenzo, Fettucini Alfredo, Gnocchi, Diablo, Marsala, Piccata, Nachos, ('course there's some real 'Murikan food on the menu too.) He at least eats internationally. LOL

I appreciate his anger over gas prices.

But, nah, I think I'd rather not mix political windbaggery with drinks.:beer:

He's really worked up about having to press the fucking "1" key.

I hate these cretins with half a brain who feel obligated to spew their "clever" opinions all over the place. I am a self-employed person and make it a point to make all people feel welcome to be my customer.

what's he sellin'? magazine subscriptions?

i go to a bar to drink, listen to some tunes, maybe listen to a jackass and talk like a jackass myself. but i don't go to a bar to read. shit, just grabbin' the lowball is hard enough at times, next you want me to read 'n debate 'n shit? you must be jokin'....

May I buy you a drink sir? :toast:

Hmmmm

Yet he rants about speaking English. What a sangrón!

I grew up not far from this place.

this one's great:

I've lived in this area all my life, and I RARELY hear anyone speaking a foreign language, so does he really feel threatened or is he simply an ignorant racist?

I knew the owner's twin daughters when they taught aerobics at the health club I belonged to. I had no idea their dad was such an idiot.

the link is down now....so thanks for confirming where I thought this was JVS!!

...

it makes it very easy for me to identify the people I want to Ignore.

Civil disagreement, I'm all in favor of. Personal insults I won't have.

and a topic like this sure seems to attract all the people who engage in personal insults, like flies to honey.

Makes it real easy to customize my DU to screen out people who's opinions and views I don't wish to see.

We don't need a post everytime you ignore someone who disagrees with you. Frankly, I doubt any of us will miss your company.

You ignore every reasoned argument. You have no use for fact or logic. Your demand for respect from other posters is repaid with profanity.

I feel sorry for you.


As I am already on your list, I guess you won't see this, but others will and see you for the person you really are.