Toronto shootings won't stop lobby group's media drive

Opponents of gun ban press on
Toronto shootings won't stop lobby group's media drive

`Nothing whatsoever to do with sporting community'
Dec. 29, 2005. 06:13 AM
HAROLD LEVY
STAFF REPORTER


"A lobby group opposed to Ottawa's proposed gun ban will target Toronto with a $100,000 media campaign despite Monday's deadly shooting.

A memo from the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association to "undisclosed recipients" and dated Dec. 22, 2005, said, "We held a major strategy meeting last Saturday ... to plan and implement a $100,000 media campaign to coincide with the final two weeks of the election."

Although the media campaign was organized several days before the Dec. 26 shootings, the institute's executive director Tony Bernardo said it will continue as planned in order to get their point across before the federal election.

SNIP......."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1135810215087&call_page=TS_GTA&call_pageid=968350130169&call_pagepath=GTA/News&pubid=968163964505

Wingnut who believes the NRA went to Columbine to stir trouble, is there any other evidence of a direct connection?

ball when we had our first school shooting by a sick masogynist. And got a pretty good assault rifle ban. Why we have had few "assault rifle" incidents in the last 15 years irregardless of the fact we share North American Culture with America.

Sorry - but I think we know that the momment Ted Nugent threatened to invade Canada himself - likely well armed - we knew we would not be left alone.

What is wrong with letting province by province decide on Hand Gun bans? You know democracy in action?

When did Canada ban select fire weapons?

That would also mean you support the Gay marraige bans in Texas and the various CCW laws in the States. Democracy in action.

BTW, what's a "masogynist".

the government is putting regulations in place to allow laws depending on the mix of the population regarding hand guns? You went all constitutional on me - now. Switch & bait. We regulate cars differently in various provinces. There are different traffic laws. What works in one place may not work in another. Why would you accuse me of being for hate laws (of people)? Because I have been pretty clear that I am against marriage bans & hatred of gays. I think we are "stereo-typing" here. You know what "stereo-typing" is don't ya? It is when you apply a characterization to someone - they are so against they will knee jerk try and get away from under the 'label' and change all their views. That is a tool of the nefarious. It isn't about discussion. It is about obfustication of the debate and manipulation.

The discussion is - what is the influence of the NRA in Canada. Are you saying that the NRA has no influence with this particular organization and with the whole gun regulation debate in Canada?

"Democracy in action" to support firearm bans province by province that would only affect those who follow the law. In Texas, a referendum was passed by the people to ban gay marriage. Democracy in action. Is one right and the other wrong?

I never claimed the NRA had no influence. You cited an article stating they are "closely linked". I asked if you had any other sources besides the highly biased Wendy Cukier.

There is a difference. The difference is quite simply - values. What do you value? Life & security & good lives so people can pursue their dreams and thrive in their lives - and get over the hump of young adulthood (be it as gay or as coming from a neighbourhood that is poor) and move on to adulthood with love, family, career, faith, and community.

Do you want the kids to thrive into adulthood and become great people or do you want them to not?

You have a simple choice.

They are both about rights. Both being removed by "democracy in action".

intrinsic value within - or not.

Are you claiming those who support individual rights can't have an "intrinsic value"? Can you answer any of my questions on firearm laws or the direct links?

in ways "hate" or "crime" will fight against. So they can become productive members of society. And live great lives.

I'm not side stepping. You accused me of being for states rights and that implied I had to have certain values. It does not. No side-stepping. It comes down to if you want fully grown adults in the very best sense of the word. Or if you don't give a shit because that gets in the way of some other agenda.

wreak havoc everyday in some inner city communities. Some of the people who use the guns are teen agers involved in the drug trade and others seeking vengeance. People who say that guns don't kill, people do, don't have to face such horrors as those faced my residents of some neighborhoods. Today, people with guns just spray bullets and not only kill the person intended but bystanders as well. I am opposed to assault weapons and most guns. There was a time when people settled their differences with their fists and sometimes a knife. Now, with guns readily available, they just shoot to kill. We have more people in prison than any other western nation yet the killing continues and the availability of guns is part of the problem.There would be far fewer murders if people did not have such easy access to guns, in my opinion.

of gun shops that sell all the illegal guns get shut down.

If you don't like the message, trash the messenger just like KKKarl does.

It kills you gun worshippers that all the other advanced nations reject your failed fascist gun policy.

"A Utah gun-rights group has an eye out for hoplophobes.

Never heard of hoplophobia? Most people haven't. The made-up word to describe people who fear guns hasn't caught on. Not even longtime gun enthusiasts are familiar with the term.

"We lead the state in sales, but we've never heard that," said Norman Van Wagenen, whose family has been in the firearms business in Provo since 1958.

The Utah Shooting Sports Council is trying to get hoplophobia into the local vernacular as well as the often bitter gun rights debate.
—Dennis Romboy, "Gun-rights group touts new 'word'," Deseret News (Salt Lake City, Utah), December 29, 2003 "

http://www.wordspy.com/words/hoplophobia.asp

would be a resounding "No, I can't produce any other connections".

be on it. Stay tuned! If they start using the word Hoplophobe - would that be a hint?

Weapon: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

Why would anyone be afraid of that?

A fear of weapons was a result of an immature mind.

all of us that he could not see past his. That would be projection.

own fear of inanimate objects are being projected onto others by force of law.

in large clusters. I think the fear is the fear of crime ridden cities and piles of victims in neighbourhoods who are innocent.

I think that is the tipping point here.

Remember - we banned assault rifles and regulated the ownership of guns after an event. Now we tighten the laws again because of several events.

Nobody cares if a gun is lying around somewhere. Do they?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. So we have to try to separate the people who should not have guns from the guns.

"assault rifles" and their direct effect on crime levels.

before and after the bans?

What were the US levels following various laws? How many of those firearms used were legally owned/obtained in the first place?

the police to quickly identify the gun at an incident - and take counter measures.

When annecdotal evidence clearly shows that your gun policies are not as effective as ours - well - that tells us something.

even w/ the relaxing of ownership/carry laws.

What have been the Canadian rates?

health & civil rights coming to fruition under Clinton.

Remember what a hard ass Rudy was? REGULATION, REGULATION, REGULATION

It works. But not in areas with poverty & access to guns & drugs. Five 9/11s happen each year in the USA because of guns.

And welcome to 2005.
The only connection between the two is that the communicate regularly. Doesn't change the point that they are both jackass gun-pushers.

All these Fruedian gun owners. It's hillarious the extremes the gun "enthusiast" will go to justify the unjustifiable, America's absurd oppressive gun culture and the utterly failed gun policy that goes with it. America has the highest murder rate, gun crime rate and gun death rate for adults and children of all industrialized nations by multiples.

<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap>

If a high rate of gun ownership means less sexual repression then America would be the least repressed of nations. :crazy:

I must be doing well as arguments go - if you have to make me say things you can then argue against.

"executive director Tony Bernardo said it will continue as planned in order to get their point across"
Their point seems to be that some loonies will put their gun fetish above everything else.

are the high point of your arguement? Glad you think a growing number of the DNC are "Scum of the Earth".

Who else would put their crappy hobby above public safety?

"Glad you think a growing number of the DNC"
Rubbish. There's no Democrats pushing gun rights except a handful of Zell Miller types. That's why the keynote speakesr at the NRA conventions are alweays peice of shit like Cheney and Delay.....

do not go down the tubes.

Let's start with the gun industry itself, made up of folks like
--tax evader and right wing cult leader Sun Myung Moon;
--neoNazi sugar daddy Gaston glock
--convicted stick-up artist J.J. Minder of S&W (forced to step down as chairman, he remains on the gun makers board of directors)
--GOP fundraiser Richard Dyke of Bushmaster.

Then let's go to the "gun rights" movement and its spokespeople:
--Larry Pratt of the Gun Owners of America is a racist so virulent that even Pat Buchanan had to flee his company
--NRA board member Ted Nugent is synonymous with racism
--NRA board member Grover "drown government in a bathtub" Norquist is a right wing crazy
--NRA board member Jeff Cooper calls black people "Orang-outangs"
--NRA board member Robert K. Brown publishes the disgraceful "Soldier of Fortune" magazine, a stroke book for would be mercenaries and hit men
--NRA board members Harry Thomas, T.J. Johnston, Leroy Pyle, and Neal Knox all have ties to white supremacist paramilitary groups
--NRA board member Roy Innis has long had ties to right wing groups and often functions as a conservative token
--NRA keynote speakers in recent years have been Zell Miller, Jeb Bush, Trent Lott, Tom Delay and Dick Cheney
--the Second Amendment Foundation and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms were both started by the right wing Young Americans for Freedom and are little more than GOP front organizations
--Second Amendment Foundation and CCRKBA head Alan Gottleib is a Republican fundraiser who has been convicted of tax fraud. He also looms large in the anti-environment movement.
--The Second Amendment Caucus in congress consists of some of the most right wing members in the GOP, including such racist dimwits as Marilyn Musgrave and Tom Tancredo
--The Pink Pistols, the astroturf "gay gun owners" group, endorses anti-gay political candidates and tried to disrupt a peaceful gay rights march in Ohio last year. Its enemies list includes liberals such as Barney Frank but DOES NOT include right wing gay haters such as Fred Phelps or James Dobson. Until recently, it had a link on its site to the right wing think tank Northbridge which created them, that in turn had an essay chortling about what a "good trick" the group was "on liberals."
--Doctors for Reponsible Gun Ownership is an astroturf committee of 1,000 gun nuts (most of whom are not doctors) created by the right wing Claremont Institute to spread disinformation on public health questions.
--the Law Enforcement Association of America is an astroturf group created by the NRA to pretend that police officers oppose gun control.
--the "Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership" is another astroturf group that routinely promotes neoConfederate and racist gibberish.

Not just cutnpaste rants.

.

Imagine you're a stamp collector.
--But it turns out that in buying stamp albums and collectible stamps, you're supporting some of the scummiest corporations on earth.
--And suppose every stamp collector's association and group was headed by racist right wing loonies.
--And suppose every stamp collector's journal and website was filled 24/7 with right wing drivel, open bigotry and attacks on Democrats.
--And suppose the stamp collecting conventions regularly honored some of the scummiest and most corrupt politicians in the country while the stamp collecting associations funneled them money.
--And suppose there was a public health hazard associated with your stamp collecting hobby, but philatelist groups had hired a racist crackpot synonymous with academic fraud to produce a "study" "proving" otherwise.

Would an honest person rethink stamp collecting? Or would they stamp their feet and deny that any of that was true, and make absurd analogies in a desperate attempt to justify their hobby?

he's about to cream his pants.

That was the 2004 convention--the 2005 keynote speaker was Tom Delay....



Hope when the cops come for Delay they remember he's got a gun....

goose in the sky directly and shoot when you feel it.

with the original poster and other anti-rights individuals unable to answer any of my questions,

I'll be on my way.

I'm anti gun, but nice try. Thanks for stopping by.

:evilgrin: The NRA has been heavily involved in exporting it's failed beliefs and for the most part it has met stiff opposition. From the daily kos


Today.. we find out yet another US organization is trying to rally its compatriots in Canada:

The National Rifle Association, arguably the most powerful lobby group in the United States, has been enlisted to help shore up the influence of the Canadian gun lobby during the federal election campaign -- something opponents say smacks of foreign interference and is indicative of the NRA's widening influence around the globe.

Glen Caroline, director of the NRA's grassroots division, is a keynote speaker and is giving a seminar today in Scarborough at the general meeting of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association, an umbrella organization of recreational firearms groups...

While the association hasn't officially endorsed a party, it likely will this weekend.

You can bet they will be endorsing the Conservative Party, who wishes to weaken gun laws. As for the NRA, the NRA is up here because they've never liked the fact we have stricter gun laws to begin with, and they especially hate the National Gun Registry, which is used to track firearm registration and who owns the guns across Canada. It has come under criticism (justified) that it is costing way more money then it should to operate, but all the police organizations will tell you that the Registry has helped them immensely. The Registry should be reformed so that it doesnt cost as much.. but Canadian Gun-Owners groups want it killed outright. They have never had the influence or the power their NRA cousins have (Canadians look dimly on guns), which is why they look to the NRA to help them campaign against this.
-------------------snip--------------------------------
<http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/3/164242/872>

Thanks for posting it, will definitely save that one!

Gun lobby scraps ads in wake of Toronto shooting

In the wake of a deadly downtown Toronto shooting on Boxing Day, gun lobby groups have scrapped their plan for a $100,000 ad campaign in the city to attack the Liberals' proposal to ban handguns.

The campaign, by the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action and the Canadian Shooting Association, had been designed to argue that responsible gun owners are not at the root of the crime problem.

At first, the lobby groups intended to present the campaign despite the Dec. 26 crime that horrified the country, when a teenage girl died and six others were injured as gunfire erupted on a busy Toronto street.

snip

"In light of the recent barbaric acts in downtown Toronto, resulting in the death of 15-year-old Jane Creba and the injury of six others, we are very concerned that our informational advertising is being intentionally misconstrued for political purposes," Larry Whitmore, executive director of the sports association, said in a statement Thursday.

more

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/30/gun-lobby051230.html