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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:20 PM
Original message
I will support Senator Kerry because
he took on one of the most corrupt campaigns and was able to achieve a record 59 million votes, the second highest ever in presidential elections. Despite the media's complicity, Senator Kerry almost helped Bush set a record:

In the last two campaigns, the parties divided the electoral map almost exactly in half. In 2000, George W. Bush won the second-narrowest Electoral College victory since 1800. In 2004, Bush won a smaller share of Electoral College votes than any reelected president except Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
held http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-outlook7may07,1,3221992.column?coll=la-headlines-nation



Despite comments to the contrary, Senator Kerry did fight the Swift Liars:



May 4, 2004. The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event. (Above are, r-l, Wade Sanders, Del Sandusky and Drew Whitlow). Senior Advisor Michael Meehan said, "The Nixon White House attempted to do this to Kerry, and the Bush folks are following the same plan." "We're not going to let them make false claims about Kerry and go unanswered," Meehan said. He said his first instinct was to hold a press conference with an empty room where veterans could testify to their time spent in the military with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Spaeth Communications, which hosted the event, "is a Republican headed firm from Texas which has contributed to Bush's campaign and has very close ties to the Bush Administration." Lead organizer John O'Neill, a Republican from Texas, "was a pawn of the Nixon White House in 1971." Further some of the people now speaking against Kerry had praised him in their evaluation reports in Vietnam.

John Dibble, who served on a swift boat in 1970, after Kerry had left, was one of the veterans at the Kerry event. He said of Kerry's anti-war activities that at the time, "I didn't like what he was doing." In retrospect, however, Dibble said, "I probably should have been doing the same thing...probably more of us should have been doing that." He said that might have meant fewer names on the Vietnam Memorial and that Kerry's anti-war activities were "a very gutsy thing to do."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=358&topic_id=2555&mesg_id=2555


It stopped them cold, until the MSM launched its onslaught in August. Then Kerry called them out and issued a direct challenge to Bush:

Kerry defends war record

Aug. 19: John Kerry responds directly to attacks on his Vietnam military service Thursday, accusing President Bush of relying on front groups to challenge his war record.
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=40a0d9b1-0386-41ef-bc0e-904bcc95946c&


Text:

Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: "Bring it on."

I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending America—then, now, or ever. And I'm not going to let anyone attack the sacrifice and courage of the men who saw battle with me.

And let me make this commitment today: their lies about my record will not stop me from fighting for jobs, health care, and our security – the issues that really matter to the American people...



I also believe Senator Kerry handle the election results in the proper way given the facts.

From the RFK Jr. article:

By midnight, the official tallies showed a decisive lead for George Bush -- and the next day, lacking enough legal evidence to contest the results, Kerry conceded.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/1



Senator Kerry still continued legal efforts:

Today, Kerry-Edwards filed a document in support of that statement. Most significant, Kerry-Edwards also filed today a separate document in support of our motion for hearing with two critical attachments: 1) a declaration from Kerry-Edwards attorney Don McTigue regarding a survey he conducted of Kerry-Edwards county recount coordinators; 2) a summary chart of the results of that survey (which highlight the inconsistent standards applied during the recount).

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/2/24/183243/756

http://www.truthout.org/pdf/cobbbadnariktransfertatement22305.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmctiguedecl22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmotionforhearing22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardssummarychart22405.pdf (counting)
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardstransferstatement22405.pdf


All of these efforts were thwarted by partisanship in Ohio Republican government and in the U.S. Congress. As Conyers report stated:

Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.

B. Need for Further Congressional Hearings

It is also clear the U.S. Congress needs to conduct additional and more vigorous hearings into the irregularities in the Ohio presidential election and around the country.


While we have conducted our own Democratic hearings and investigation, we have been handicapped by the fact that key participants in the election, such as Secretary of State Blackwell, have refused to cooperate in our hearings or respond to Mr. Conyers questions. While GAO officials are prepared to move forward with a wide ranging analysis of systemic problems in the 2004 elections, they are not planning to conduct the kind of specific investigation needed to get to the bottom of the range of problems evident in Ohio. As a result, it appears that the only means of obtaining his cooperation in any congressional investigation is under the threat of subpoena, which only the Majority may require.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/issues/issues/election.html



August 31, 2005

Kerry and Edwards to Stay in Recount Case!!! Trial to Start in August 2006

Don McTigue, attorney for John Kerry and John Edwards, appeared in federal court in Toledo, before Judge Carr, on August 30th, and told the Court that Kerry and Edwards intend to remain in the case.

Judge Carr set an August 22, 2006 trial date.

Additionally he consolidated the two recount cases, Rios v. Blackwell and Yost v. Cobb & Badnarik. He gave the plaintiffs until September 15th to file amended pleadings (plaintiff's counsel had requested an opportunity to streamline their claims).

Judge Carr set a discovery cut-off of May 1, 2006, and ruled that any summary judgment motions must be made by May 15, 2006.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2005/08/kerry-and-edwards-to-stay-in-recount.html



More in these interviews:

http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/122105SenatorKerry.mp3

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/bits/2006_0517_kerry.mp3


As Rolling Stone now states:

Enough. Only a complete investigation by federal authorities can determine the full extent of any bribery and vote rigging that has taken place. The public must be assured that the power to count the votes -- and to recount them, if necessary -- will not be ceded to for-profit corporations with a vested interest in superseding the will of the people. America's elections are the most fundamental element of our democracy -- not a market to be privatized by companies like Diebold.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10463874/editorial_a_call_for_investigation



While Senator Kerry has stated the vote was wrong and has expressed regret for his vote on the IWR, he has stated repeatedly that he did not support the invasion and as president would not have done what Bush did with the authority granted. As with everything else, there are the facts of the IWR


SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.

In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon there after as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, and

(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS. --

(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION. -- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS. -- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.




The IWR laid out a set of criteria that had to be met and specifically stated that Bush could only go to war as a last resort in the face of an imminent threat. Bush's violation: He ignored the criteria and started a war without the existence of an imminent threat to the United States.

The resolution was specific, Bush violated the specifics. The resolution was in line with the WPR, but it was not a declaration to go to war. It was an authorization to to use force providing specific conditions were met and only in the face of an imminent threat.

In the face of an imminent threat, the War Powers Resolution allows the president to go to war without prior Congressional approval. The president needs to report back to Congress withing 60 days after executing a war---provide justification so to speak. He could have taken that route, the Republicans in congress and most of the country was behind him. He would have done it and it would have been a done deal. By the time Bush had to report back, that "Mission Accomplished" statement would have already been made.


From the War Powers Resolution:

PURPOSE AND POLICY

SEC. 2. (a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent
of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the
collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the
introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into
situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by
the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or
in such situations.

(b) Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically
provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary
and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all
other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

(c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to
introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations
where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the
circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2)
specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by
attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed
forces

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/warpower.htm



Like it or not, the president has the power to go to war. Bush used manipulated evidence to claim that Iraq had WMD was a threat to national security.

The IWR gave Bush 48 hrs to report back, so the IWR didn't make it easier. It specifically stated the steps Bush had to take before considering the use of force when all other options for a peaceful solution were exhausted and the a clear and imminent threat was present. Without the resolution he would have defied Congress. With the resolution he not only defied Congress, he defied the specific criteria laid out by Congress.



Senator Kerry has been consistent in his opposition of the war.

Before the vote on October 9, 2002:

Snip…

Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances.

In voting to grant the President the authority, I am not giving him carte blanche to run roughshod over every country that poses or may pose some kind of potential threat to the United States. Every nation has the right to act preemptively, if it faces an imminent and grave threat, for its self-defense under the standards of law. The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet. I emphasize ``yet.'' Yes, it is grave because of the deadliness of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and the very high probability that he might use these weapons one day if not disarmed. But it is not imminent, and no one in the CIA, no intelligence briefing we have had suggests it is imminent. None of our intelligence reports suggest that he is about to launch an attack.

Page: S10174



In January 2003 before the invasion:


I believe the Bush Administration's blustering unilateralism is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. In practice, it has meant alienating our long-time friends and allies, alarming potential foes and spreading anti-Americanism around the world.

Snip…

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.

http://kerry.senate.gov/high/record.cfm?id=189831



During the campaign:

Kerry Hits Nail on Head


By Marjorie Cohn t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 04 October 2004

Snip...

John Kerry cut to the heart of the matter when he said during Thursday’s debate with George W. Bush that, "a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn’t have long-term designs on it." Kerry cited the U.S. construction of 14 military bases in Iraq that are said to have "a rather permanent concept to them."

Building these bases belies Bush’s protestations that he has "no ambitions of empire."

Snip...

Yes, as Kerry said, Bush made "a colossal error of judgment" when he invaded Iraq. "I will make a flat statement," Kerry declared during the debate. "The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq." With that promise, John Kerry turned the policy of Team Bush on its head. Kerry was also right on when, responding to Bush’s debate mantra that Kerry sends mixed messages, the Senator said: "You talk about mixed messages. We’re telling other people, ‘You can’t have nuclear weapons,’ but we’re pursuing a new nuclear weapon that we might even contemplate using."

more...

http://www.uncle-scam.com/Breaking/oct-04/to-10-4.pdf#search=



Here is an exact quote from the debate:

I will make a flat statement: The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq.

KERRY: And our goal in my administration would be to get all of the troops out of there with a minimal amount you need for training and logistics as we do in some other countries in the world after a war to be able to sustain the peace.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/30/politics/main646640.shtml


In 2005:

06/28/2005
John Kerry Speaks Out on Iraq, Details Concrete Steps President Must Take to Rescue the Mission

Snip...

“Getting it right also means putting together a real plan for the training of Iraqi troops and following through on it. This should be our top priority. It’s the key to getting our troops home and avoiding a humiliating withdrawal. It’s time to move beyond fudging the numbers and finally put the training of Iraqi troops on a true six-month wartime footing, which includes ensuring the Iraqi government has the budget necessary to deploy them. It’s also time to stop using the in-country training requirement as an excuse for refusing offers made by Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany to do more. Why would we turn down this opportunity to give our troops the relief they deserve?

“Getting it right also means drawing up a detailed plan with the clear milestone of transfer of military and police responsibilities to Iraqis after the December elections. The Administration’s plan should take into account both political and security objectives, including Iraqi force structure, and be specifically tied to a defined series of tasks and accomplishments. This plan must be more than dates and numbers - it must make clear to the Iraqi government that American patience is limited.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=239696&


10/26/2005
Senator John Kerry Lays Out Path Forward in Iraq
If Administration Acts Responsibly, We Can Stabilize Iraq and Reduce Combat Forces With Successful December Elections, Draw Down 20,000 Troops by the End of 2005
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=247764&



Senator Kerry has demonstrated honesty and has consistently stands on principle:

What’s the Best Kept Secret About John Kerry?

Voted against the Defense of Marriage Act
Got the endorsement of Lee Iacocca
Spearheaded probe of BCCI, the CIA’s favorite bank
Vowed to filibuster ANWR drilling bill
Founded VA watchdog group Vietnam Vets of America
Was Time Magazine’s ‘Honest Man in Politics’ in 96
Has a 0% rating from the Christian Coalition
Gets an F-grade from the NRA
Led Senate hearings on Iran-Contra scandal
Sponsored Clean Money bill for Congressional races
Gave others credit for legislation he wrote

http://www.redefeatbush.com/modules.php?name=Surveys&pollID=20



In fact, Senator Kerry was pretty much right about everything he advocated during the campaign.


Kerry's ideas are at the forefront in the Democratic Party.

Improving benefits for troops and their families. With the recognition that the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq have placed a tremendous strain on service members and their families, Democrats have worked to ensure that the government provides adequate support to them in this difficult time. Senator Kerry introduced one amendment to extend housing allowances for families of service members killed during their service, and another amendment to increase the death gratuity for families of all troops killed in active duty from $12,000 to $100,000. Both amendments passed in the Senate.

They also attempted to table Senator Kerry's amendment to increase the death gratuity for all personnel killed in active duty, claiming that providing an increased death gratuity to families of fallen soldiers "does not give us the opportunity to recognize those who put their lives on the line. We oppose this amendment because of that fact." Senator Stevens, speaking on behalf of the Republicans, signaled that the Bush Administration also opposed the Durbin and Kerry amendments. Finally, Republicans opposed Senator Bayh's amendment to address longstanding shortages of up-Armored Humvees in Iraq.

Seventeen Republicans repeatedly voted against measures to support our troops. Republican Senators opposed four key amendments that were intended to provide much needed support for the men and women in our nation's military: Senator Durbin's reservist pay protection amendment, Senator Kerry's death gratuity increase, Senator Bayh's effort to procure additional up-armored Humvees, and Senator Murray's amendment to support veterans returning from Iraq. In each case, no fewer than 25 Republicans voted against the amendment. However, there were seventeen "worst offenders" in the Republican Caucus that voted against every single one of these amendments. These worst offenders, which include the top two leaders of the Republican Caucus, are: Majority Leader Frist, Majority Whip McConnell, and Senators Allard, Bennett, Bond, Bunning, Burr, Cochran, Cornyn, DeMint, Grassley, Hatch, Inhofe, Sessions, Shelby, Stevens, and Voinovich.

Republicans flip flop on key provisions to provide support for our troops. While Senate Republicans put aside their opposition to some key Democratic initiatives in the Senate version of the bill, they joined with House Republicans in conference to remove these provisions from the conference report. Republicans removed Senator Reid's amendment addressing concurrent receipt for disabled veterans, Senator Kerry's amendment providing an increase in death gratuity for survivors of all deceased service members, and Senator Durbin's amendment to provide income security for reservists. Republicans also reduced funding for Army Reserve tuition assistance provided by Senator Landrieu's amendment from $17.6 million to $5 million, and reduced funding for up-armored Humvees provided by Senator Bayh's amendment from $213 million to $150 million.


http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-109-1-31




Democrats have a strategy to secure Iraq and bring our troops home.

While the Bush Administration has vacillated, misjudged, and floundered in Iraq, Senate Democrats have consistently called for a stronger, more coherent set of policies to turn the situation in Iraq around. If proposals from Senate Democrats were adopted, the United States mission to Iraq would:

Accelerate reconstruction efforts. At a recent hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Biden joined with Republican Senators Lugar and Hagel to urge Bush Administration officials to correct the errors the Administration has made in its reconstruction efforts. Senator Biden stated that accelerating progress in reconstructing Iraq's infrastructure "is our single highest foreign policy priority right now in the next weeks." Senator Kerry has noted that correcting past mistakes means that "we have to rethink our policies and set standards of accountability, and...use more Iraqi contractorsand workers instead of big corporations like Halliburton." (Remarks at New York University, 9/20/04)

Expand and improve training of security forces. As Senator Kerry has suggested, the President should "urgently expand the security forces' training program inside and outside of Iraq. He should strengthen the vetting of recruits, double the classroom training time, require the follow-on field training. He should recruit thousands of qualified trainers from our allies, especially those who have no troops in Iraq. He should press our NATO allies to open training centers in their countries." (Remarks at New York University, 9/20/04)

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-108-2-269




"We are joined by governors from across the country in urging Congress and the White House to wake up and help families cope with record-high heating prices this winter. We refuse to abandon families, especially seniors, who won't be able to afford to keep the heat on. The administration's own Energy Information Administration knows this problem is real. Governors across the country see this. So why are the White House and the Republican leadership in Congress going out of their way to do nothing? What's it going to take for the White House to act? If Katrina showed us anything, it's that we can't afford to wait until the crisis is here and it's too late. It's time Washington stop playing games, get with the program, and start figuring out how we're going to keep the heat on for American families this winter," said John Kerry.

http://democrats.senate.gov/energy/news/101905.html




At another June 15 Social Security event, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) released a report stating that Bush's proposed changes in Social Security would create increased administrative requirements and costs for small businesses.

"This is bad for small business. It is a burden for small business. It is not implementable efficiently," Kerry said at a news conference. The report, titled President Bush's Social Security Privatization Plan: Benefit Cuts, Red Tape, and Increased Costs for Small Businesses, said that Bush has underestimated the cost of individual accounts for small businesses. It was drafted by the Democratic Policy Committee.

http://sbc.senate.gov/democrat/record.cfm?id=239131



Kerry is responsible for forcing the debate on withdrawal from Iraq

April 5, 2006
Two Deadlines and An Exit
The New York Times
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2006_0405.html

Support for John Kerry's Resolution:

Gary Hart
Max Cleland
Retired Air Force Colonel James Callard
Barbara Boxer
Tom Harkin
Russ Feingold
Ted Kennedy
Former Army Captain Jeremy D. Broussard
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2006_0426c.html


Statement by MoveOn.org Political Action on Senator
Kerry’s Proposal for Iraq
The following is a statement by MoveOn.org Washington
Director Tom Matzzie on Senator John Kerry’s proposal
for Iraq:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2006_0405f.html


Right and Responsibility to Speak Out
On 35th anniversary of Senate testimony, Kerry says
history repeating itself
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2006_04_22.html

June 13, 2006
John Kerry's Speech to the Campaign for America’s
Future
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2006_06_13.html


Excerpts of S.2766 introduced in the United States
Senate on June 12, 2006
Purpose: To require the withdrawal of United States
Armed Forces from Iraq and urge the convening of an
Iraq summit.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2006_0612.html


Senator Kerry is a fighter with intelligence, integrity and common sense, and that's what I look for in a leader.

He's got my support!
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nolies32fouettes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. excellent factual support for your position! A plus!
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nolies32fouettes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. Kerry and Murtha a class act!!!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post!
I'll support Kerry because, imo, he is hands-down the most ethical, least likely to be corrupted, and probably the most intelligent with the broadest range of experience of anyone in the field.

Plus all the reasons you posted.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. No.
And he can't flip a red state.

But, OK.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Sorry you disagree.
:hi:

He came damn close to flipping at least a couple in 2004. An experienced, smarter campaign next time, with the absence of Shrum and a few other consultants, and a 9/11-b.s.-weary public will give him a really good shot at it.

Meanwhile, off-topic and for what it's worth, I really don't think that pic of Wes helps him out much. Just my opinion... you don't see me bashing Wes around here, so don't take my comment the wrong way.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I like it.
But, then, I'm a sucker for pics of Wes. I've never seen a bad one.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Cool
Just a difference of opinion. I like most pics of Wes...I really don't like that one. Just thought I'd mention it once. Maybe it's just me.

:shrug:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R!
This is a very informative post.

Thanks for sharing.

:hi:
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'll save this post. Thanks
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
72. I saved it, too! It's great. I just wish the ignorant on this site would
you know: READ IT.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow, you even have like, articles and quotes and stuff!
It's so nice when someone's opinions are actually based on, ya know, logic and research.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. This covers so much
Thank you for putting this altogether. This is perfect to send someone on the fence.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Now THAT'S a post.
Now THAT's a post.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. nice research! thanks!!!! EOM
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. A-freakin-men!!!!!!!!!!!!
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Damn right! He has my support. 100% +
The information you provide is simply amazing.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. He's got my support, too.
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 08:38 PM by globalvillage
Great post, ProSense.

Edit - bookmarked and recommended.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Probably The Best Thread I've Ever Seen On This Subject.
You did such a tremendous job on this and I can only imagine the effort you put in to make it the way you wanted it.

I'm going to bookmark this. It is too valuable a source of info for me to lose.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks. A positive post! Just what I needed.\nt
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Daylin Byak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well people of this great forum, all i have to say is this:
Kerry/Feingold in '08
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. I support John Kerry
because no other politician has ever inspired me more, or made me feel more hopeful. When the dust has finally settles and *'s ass leaves the White House, we're going to need a grown-up in the White House who understands the complexities of the world and who doesn't view life as one never ending frat party.
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Kerry fan Donating Member (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wow, Pro, you convinced me...;)
Just kidding. I was convinced long, long ago.

But, you have done a GREAT job. I am bookmarking this post.
And, yes, it is soo great to see an "opinion" backed by facts instead of "he let us down", or "he didn't fight", or blah, blah blah.

GREAT WORK...THANK YOU
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent post and research!
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 08:43 PM by politicasista
Anyone who stands up for civil rights ALL the time, not just on certain days on the calendar has my vote!

Go Kerry! :kick:
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Blaukraut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. agreed, kicked, and bookmarked :-) n/t
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent summation
:patriot:

K&R

:kick:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks all!
Thanks Senator Kerry!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. You put together a grand piece of work, ProSense. You should be in DC
working for the Dem party.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Thanks!
Easy to support JK.
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wonderful!
Me too!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
47. Hi Democrafty!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Hi!
Thank you!
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Excellent Collection of Information
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 09:05 PM by neoblues
It's a shame it takes so much work to gather the facts on all the questions raised about him. It should have been common knowledge. Though the links show that these things were covered, somewhere--it should have been everywhere in the public/mass media. Operative phrase, "should have been". Reform is Job One. Electoral Reform, Media Reform stand as the two most urgent problems we face--and in each, we must change the status-quo or find a way to work around it.

As for the events of the last six years, it sure enough turned out that one just couldn't trust Bush (on anything--no matter how well resolved; actually, even just trusting him to be rational was too much), and we couldn't trust our (apparently Republican) Electoral Process. Also, in reality, there just wasn't much of anything, given the Republican three-way governmental majorities and control over/collusion with the media, that we could do. They (Republicans/NeoRepubliCons) just did whatever they wanted (damn or change the rules), have gotten away with almost everything else they chose to do to retain their power, and are still running the show. After the fact, we're just wishing our leaders had done more--nevermind what or how (hardly fair).

Somehow, Kerry (who certainly seems to have the right positions and to have done his best) and the rest of our elected Democrats need to do something more or different. Certainly they need to find a way to harness the discontent in the grass roots of our party, in order to provide leadership to us. They may be providing the leadership (for all we know), but it doesn't seem to be reaching the people--so it's time to do something new. Surely so many like-minded citizens are a resource? Call on us, lead/guide us, tell us how we can help, use us... (I mean, hopefully, use us more effectively... and my favorite word today "somehow"! But where there's a will, there's a way...)

Edit: Revised "Good" in Subject to "Excellent" on realizing it was rather weak praise...
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Need to do something more or different....
You are so right.

The media is a HUGE problem. And it will be a problem for WHOEVER the candidate is.

A couple things Kerry has going for him in that area - he's faced it in 2004, and no doubt learned a lot; and most of the smears will already have been debunked and digested by the public. I say "most" because I know they held some in reserve. But I think the Kerry team knows that too, and has a good idea what their game plan is. There will probably still be some surprises - but the potential for nasty surprises is a lot smaller with Kerry a second time around, than with any of the other candidates.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. It all comes down to the REAL enemy of Democrats - the corporate media
that seeks their complete destruction. The media is controlled by war profiteering FASCISTS.

Democrats, as a party, are in the way of global fascism.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh my goodness, what a great post!!!
:applause:

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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. I will not support him because deadlines and timetables are poor policy.
I think Kerry's call for withdrawing troops by year's end will handicap him in the 08' race.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Half the names on the Vietnam Wall were added after the "leaders"
in Washington knew their policy was a failure.

The current Iraq policy is a failure. Kerry KNOWS that his proposal will not be passed. What his coming out for a deadline does, is ratchet up the heat on the administration, and gives hope and leadership to the anti-war movement to demand the troops be brought home as soon as possible.

Unless you believe in the stay-the-course policy of the Bush administration, then ratcheting up the pressure for withdrawal of our troops cannot be considered harmful. I don't think it will hurt Kerry in '08, because sadly, we will still be in Iraq, many more will have died, and Americans will be sick and tired of this war and all who would perpetuate it.

One more point. Based on what I know of Kerry, I believe this with every fiber of my being: if you told Kerry he had to make a choice between helping to end the war sooner and save lives, or be a viable candidate in 2008 - if you told him, pick one, you can't have both: he will pick ending the war and saving lives. That is one reason I support him so strongly - I really believe that is what he would choose.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I agree ratcheting up the pressure on the administration is good.
However, I think the policy proposals he has put forth have a good chance of being used against him successfully in the 08' primary race. It all depends on what develops in Iraq in the next year or so. If things collapse completely, he will look good. If things improve, he will not look so good.

It's all hypothetical now, because now one knows what the future will bring for certain. However, we may decidedly not want a candidate who proposed withdrawing all troops in 06' on the ticket in 08', depending on how things develop.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Well...
"Based on what I know of Kerry, I believe this with every fiber of my being: if you told Kerry he had to make a choice between helping to end the war sooner and save lives, or be a viable candidate in 2008 - if you told him, pick one, you can't have both: he will pick ending the war and saving lives. That is one reason I support him so strongly - I really believe that is what he would choose."

That may be true.

I would just say, respectfully, that based on what I know of Clark, I believe this with every fiber of my being: if you told Clark to make a choice between doing what was politically expedient on a personal and partisan level, or doing what was best for the country - if you told him to pick one, you can't have both: he will end up doing what is best for America. That's why I support him so strongly.

Cheers.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. They're both good, honorable men.
I think we can agree on that!

:toast:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. If he can handle it in the debates, then he will - but, I would
submit that it isn't a standard POLICY as you put it.

And the VP of Iraq agrees with setting a timetable. It's the best way to do it for THEIR culture. I don't recall Kerry saying that timetables would be standard policy, do you?
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
37. AWESOME, simply AWESOME!
Damn, that was so good words fail me, so...

:yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Cool! Thanks! n/t
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bookmarked. Going to need this in the months ahead! n/t
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
39. if Kerry is our nominee, I'll support him wholeheartedly . . . but . . .
I think Al Gore would be a far stronger candidate for a whole bunch of reasons . . . not the least of which are a) he's already won a presidential election by a half million votes (likely much more), and b) he's not a Massachusetts liberal (which is still anathema to many voters) . . .
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Except Kerry got 10 MILLION More votes than Gore did.
The shame is that so many Democrats bought into the post election MEDIAspin of Bush and his mandate.

Had BushInc not pulled out every stop and suppressed the vote, purged voter rolls and rigged machines all over the country, we'd be talking about a 5 million vote win for Kerry.

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Luftmensch067 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
40. This is a thing of beauty!
Kicked, recced and bookmarked -- I am going to send the link to everyone I know with an e-mail address!!!

Your research is brilliant and your dedication to the TRUTH is a powerful persuader.

Thank you. I have a feeling I will be using this as a documentation of Real History (as opposed to the confusion that often stands in its place in our current culture of chaos and subjective, partisan opinion) for months and years to come. This is a light to shine us on our way.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
41. The day I became a believer in Kerry...
was at the start of the Democratic National Convention. I would have voted for him anyway, but I became a true believer that he would make a great president. I still believe that. Dean, Clark and most especially Gore...they would all make great presidents. It's my hope that one of these people do get the job.

Great post!
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njdemocrat106 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
42. A great post! Kerry will always have my support.
Kerry is one of the best Democrats our party has (and he's one of the best Americans, too). It's great that he continues to be at the forefront in speaking out against the failed policies of the Bush Administration.

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Me too.
I like what you said "and he's one of the best Americans, too." That pretty much sums it up for me.

One of the things that's impressed me most about him is the strength he's shown since the election. The resilience and determination of the man are pretty amazing. He took maybe two weeks off and came back out fired up and guns blazing. Most people didn't see that because after a few media rounds where the talking heads wouldn't stop asking "what went wrong in 2004" instead of moving forward, he took several months off the talk show circuit. But he was still working his ass off in the senate and building his pac to help other Dem candidates. The results of that hard work are starting to show now.

I'll support whoever gets the Dem nom in 08 but I don't see anybody knocking Kerry out of first choice for me.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
64. Kerry's a first-choicer for me, too - - BUT - - If someone else works to
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 03:22 PM by blm
expose the GOP control of the voting machines and works to secure the machines before the election, or works to get all electronic machines BANNED state by state, then that person will have moved themself up.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
43. You're wrong about the IWR
The keyword in the IWR is his determination

The IWR made Bush the determiner, he got to determine whether or not Iraq had complied with the terms laid out in the IWR. After the IWR he didn't need Congress to make the determination.

Within 48hrs of the opening salvos he sent Congress a letter about his determination, and the IWR had been executed in the manner it was constructed.

The IWR said nothing about an imminent threat, only that the congresspeople who voted for it had faith in Bush's determination to use the power granted to him in good faith, something that anyone with half a head knew he wouldn't.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. War Powers already gave him that - but the IWR did do some thing few seem
to recall - the Dems negotiating it got Iranand Syria off the table as follow-up targets and put weapon inspectors and diplomats into the position of PREVENTING war through their success.

Bush had to LIE in his determination, it was already proving that Iraq was not an ongoing threat to OUR national security. Making a false statement in an official document like the Letter to Congress, is an impeachable offense.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. His determination was subjective
He did not have to lie.

The IWR was a blank check, and everyone who voted for it knew that.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. The DSM proved he intended to lie - and he DID lie in an official document
to congress. You would have to be a certifiable paranoid to say that our national security was under threat from Iraq after OFFICIAL weapon inspections and diplomacy workers were reporting back the exact opposite.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. And the IWR gave that power to someone that is certifiable
The IWR didn't require that Bush act in a rational manner, only that he determined Iraq was a continuing threat for whatever reason he determined.

If Bush determined that Saddam was wearing a red sweater that day in March and that presented a continuing threat to US national security, the IWR gave him the power to use military force.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. NO president is allowed to LIE in an official document. There should be no
need to require a president to tell the truth in his official document, because he is under OBLIGATION to be truthful in all OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS.

I side with Bonifaz who testified that the iWR should be used to IMPEACH Bush.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
All Bush had to determine was:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq

He didn't have to prove these conditions, he just had to be of the opinion that these conditions existed.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. And still by LAW expected to be truthful. Diplomatic efforts were POSITIVE
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 03:08 PM by blm
and reporting that Saddam was going to leave peacefully - Weapon inspectors were reporting back with REAL INTEL from on the ground in Iraq - no WMDs. Bush RECEIVED those reports and LIED in his statement.

If I had to go to an unbiased courtroom with evidence, I'd be more secure going in with the argument that Bush lied, because all the evidence points to it.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
50. Who da man? You da man!
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wildflowergardener Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. Great post
Great post - good to have this all in one place so you can refer people to it if they have questions about what Kerry has done.

I also agree that the media is the big problem. Many people won't dig deep enough to find out what information is true, and will just believe what they hear on the news.

So frustrating and annoying.

Meg
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
74. Thanks! The media
appears to be a lost cause, but the complicity is becoming more and more obvious to many more people.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
52. It's threads like this that remind me why I joined DU.
Kicked and recommended. This is the exact kind of posts we need to combat the right-wing noise machine. :yourock:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. The left needs to start USING the real information out there and STOP
using the media spin that has been served up via GOP talking points.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
76. Thank you! The RW makes a lot of noise
and the smear and lies should never be echoed by reasonable people: Republican or Democrat!
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. Thanks for your hard work and research. book marked officially now!
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
56. wow, are you campaigning for him for 2008?
Not that that is a bad thing, but you seem to feel passionately about this subject.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. I think it's so the same lines of attack are addressed and in one place.
I'm certainly glad for it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. Call it support! Call it believing in someone! Call it whatever!
I support Kerry for all the reasons stated in the OP!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
63. Bookmarked!!
Wow.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
65. Kicked and recommended
Because I hate to see a thread this important languishing in obscurity!

Congrats on a terrific post!

:patriot:
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garthranzz Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
68. Excellent!
You said much of what I had planned to write, with more support. I may still write my speculation "Why Kerry conceded" (a temporary, strategic retreat), but suffice it to say, the more I learn about him and the more he does, the more I admire him.
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
69. Its amazing the Reicht hasnt been able to smear him
Theyve tried with the swiftboats and the flip flop but nothing with any substance, just hate spew and propaganda .

Id support Sen Kerry in a New York minute.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Yep - as hard as they've looked, they got NOTHING.
Nothing at all. They even tried to manufacture an intern scandal and pissed off the father of the woman they smeared with it - who previously disliked Kerry for his policies - so much that he voted for Kerry.

Kerry's about as clean as they come. That's why the smear merchants have to just make shit up. Sadly, the media let them get away with it.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
73. kick
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
75. Excellent (nt)
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