Debunk this email please!!!

I know someone, somewhere has debunked this - Snopes didn't have it though.

Can someone please find the link to the debunking? Thanks!
*****************

WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID:


There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January.That 's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us ; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.


c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us .
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ..
an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us .

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.

etc....

http://www.local8-0237.com/interesting_facts_rebuttal.htm

I would only add that Johnson paid dearly for turning Vietnam into a quagmire, unlike Bunnypants whose supporters stand by him no matter how bad it gets.

Mz Pip
:dem:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_glenn_metzenbaum.htm

I always put some key words and the word HOAX in my searh.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hoax+john+glenn+&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

on December 11, 1941.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/germany-declares.htm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Scroll down to the "update"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Scroll about 2/3 of the way down

Update: In 2005, someone prefaced the John Glenn/Howard Metzenbaum article with the following item about Iraq. This addendum has nothing to do with John Glenn — it's an anonymous piece that has been floating around the Internet since 2004, but because it has been tacked onto an article about Glenn, readers have been misled into thinking that it is a transcription of something he said ...

:loveya:

but I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Meanwhile,

On this quote:
"There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January.That 's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq. "

I would assume that the 35 murders in Detroit were civilian deaths, so I would like to see the number of civilian deaths in Iraq for January just to keep things consistent. I'll include all combat deaths in Detroit as well to keep things fair. :)

“FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.”
Japan attacked the United States on December 7, 1941. Germany declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941. Is the writer suggesting that we should have allowed Germany to conquer Europe, sink our ships, and continue the progroms under which they killed 12 million innocent people?

“Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.”
Truman did not start the Korean war. We had a treaty obligation to defend South Korea. As a U.N. member we joined the coalition that went to South Korea’s aid when they were attacked by North Korea.

“John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.”
In a press conference on April 7, 1954, President Eisenhower used the “domino theory” to describe the consequences of a Communist takeover of French Indochina (Vietnam). The first U.S. military “advisors” (35) were placed in Vietnam by Truman in 1950. Eisenhower increased that presence to 654 “advisors” along with over a billion dollars in military aid. JFK increased the number to 16,000. By the time Kennedy was killed, 489 U.S. servicemen had been killed there. On October 11, 1963, JFK signed orders to begin a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Vietnam. (http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM263.html)
The “domino theory” was used as justification for military action in Southeast Asia from the term of Eisenhower/Nixon through most of Richard Nixon’s term.

“Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.”
Johnson was president for only 4-1/2 years of this period. Nixon was president for 5-1/2 years. Most of these losses were under Nixon.

They don't even need a reason to lie, it is simply a reflex action, much the way we vomit whenever we see the drunken face of Bush on the TV.

The truth does not matter to a Freeper, only winning matters. And because they have no truth in them, they have to justify themselves with an external scapegoat, which is we "LIEberals". We saw the same in Nazi Germany, except the scapegoat then was "Filthy Jews". Same rhetoric, though.

Detroit is a city with nearly million people. That means their is one violent death their per 20000 residents in January. There are 130,000 GIs in Iraq. Therefore there was one death per 3500 US soldiers in January. Any idiot who thinks those mortality rates are similar is a total buffoon. But, let's also ADD ALL Casualties (deaths and major injuries): The rate for Detroit doubles at most. The rate for US soldiers goes up 5 times.

a. Japan ATTACKED the US at Pearl Harbor. FDR responded by declaring war. Iraq NEVER attacked the US.

b. Germany DECLARED WAR on the US. What was FDR to do about that? Ignore it? Iraq NEVER declared war on the US.

c. North Korea ATTACKED US ally South Korea. Truman didn't start anything. He went to the UN and asked the UN to support South Korea from aggression. The UN voted to do so. Iraq didn't attack anyone in 2002 or 2003, the UN never voted to support a war against Iraq.

d. Kennedy continued the Eisenhower administration policy of supporting the South Vietnamese. He didn't "start" the conflict.
It was already well underway. Eisenhower first helped the French in their losing fight, then helped the South.

e. Johnson did turn Vietnam into a quagmire, just as Bush has turned Iraq into one. Does that make Bush right?

etc.

Anyone who believes the original message is an idiot. It's full of lies and half truths.

1) The comparison is flawed. They are comparing US combat deaths to homicides n a major city. First, this leaves out the total number of homicides in a comparable Iraqi city (why should the comparison be limited to US troops)? Second, it distorts the role and qualities of the US force vis-a-vis the Iraqi population. The correct comparison would be # of US troops killed in Iraq to # of policemen killed in California, since this comparison takes in the whole population (Iraq has about 20 million people, like California), the comparison set specifically (140,000 troops to about 180,000 peace officers in California), and the role of the specific comparison set (it being assumed that it's easier to kill an ordinary civilian than it is an armed and trained officer/soldier who has a communication infrastructure). So, were 39 police officers killed in California in January? Hardly. No. If you take the years 2004-2006 inclusive, 25 peace officers have been killed in the line of duty in California. That's the comparison. http://www.camemorial.org/2001.htm. One could go a step further and look at the whole population. Best estimates are that 780 Iraqi civilians and security forces were killed in the month of January. Were 780 people killed in the state of California in the month of January? If so, the emailer would have a point. Needless to say, this isn't the case.

2a) FDR asked Congress to declare war on the Empire of Japan after we were attacked
2b) We declared war on Germany after Germany declared war on us. The sequence was as follows: 1) We are attacked by Japan; 2) We declare war on Japan; 3) Japan calls in its treaty obligations with Germany, so Germany declares war on the US; 4) The US declares war on Germany. Now, even being so wrong, they still make a severe mistake, since germany had been attacking US merchant marine vessels in the Atlantic for at least two years by the time we declared war on Germany, so whoever wrote the email is even more wrong than can be. http://www.usmm.org/casualty.html
2c) We entered the Korean war under UN mandate. North Korea, moreover, unlike Iraq, did, in fact invade a sovereign nation to begin the war, which is why the UN saw fit to get involved. Have the emailer send you the name of the sovereign nation that the Iraqis attacked to begin this war, and have them show you the UN mandate for this war.
2d) It is true that Vietnbam never attacked thge United States, and there should have been no war in Vietnam, at least not for us. The emailer, however, gets the dates wrong. We were assisting ther French during their colonial war in Vietnam, and were actively involved in the sham that was the RVN from 1954, under Eisenhower. Johnson, however, does deserve a great deal of blame for his Vietnam policy, but of course, he wasn't President from 1965-1975, was he?

response:

Please remove my email address from any further transmittals of this kind of right wing nutball crap. Today marks the 2,500th American death in Iraq for Bush's bullshit war which has done nothing to protect us.

The content of your email was disgusting and insulting to me as an American and as a Democrat. Up until now Democrats have kept relatively quiet about this war but it's time to stand up and fight to protect our brave young men and women in uniform from being slaughtered by right wing neocon fruitcakes.

We shouldn't have gone to war against Nazi Germany? Who wrote this garbage? It looks like it came right off the pages of some Neo-Nazi web site. Instead of blaming FDR and Bill Clinton and calling patriotic Americans "commies", blame the lying SOB in the White House who told us we had to fight in Iraq to get Hussein's "weapons of mass destruction", which never existed to begin with. Our kids are getting killed and maimed every day, wounded, arms and legs blown off by IEDs, for nothing.

So what does it mean if more people were murdered in Detroit than were killed in Iraq in a given month or that a lot of our soldiers were killed in other wars? Does that mean life is cheap and we shouldn't give a crap if a few more are killed in Iraq. That's insane.

Meanwhile, Osama Bin Laden, the guy who was REALLY responsible for 9/11 and who Bush has apparently forgotten, is laughing at us as we chase around after people like Saddam, who was never any danger to us in the first place.

Here's what your hero Bush had to say about Bin Laden:

"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you."

I like your answer! :applause: Be sure to hit "reply to all," so his whole mailing list gets the response.

Ronald Reagan's warning to George W!

David Huckelberry, the former personal diarist of late Ronald Reagan, related this story to a close friend. His friend couldn't keep this a secret:

When Ronnie was in the last throughs of Alzeheimers, he still had some very lucid moments. His legendary recall of names, facts and places came back to him, albeit in fleeting moments. One night in Santa Barbara he called out to David at 3am. He told David to "get that Bush kid on the phone" (that was his name for George W. Bush).

David told him that it was the middle of the night. Couldn't it wait? But Ronnie insisted. So David got patched through to the western white house in Texas. David, wanted to know what was so important that it couldn't wait until morning and he also had come to recognize the moments when Ronnie was 'his old self.' He listened as the two leaders talked. This is what he heard:

"Whatever you do, don't occupy Iraq! You will regret it if you do. No country in history has been able to occupy and hold a foreign nation without bringing about it's own demise. We knew this when we got the soviets to invade Afghanistan. We knew that if we kept them there long enough, the Soviet Union would go bankrupt. And it worked. Don't fall into the same trap! The fate of this great nation is at stake. Don't occupy Iraq!"

The call ended. But David was forever struck by what he had heard. Years later he found he could not keep this to himself. If Ronnie was to give this nation one final gift, this would be it. So David wrote this story and began to send it to everyone who would listen.

You can help this country benefit from the last nugget of Ronald Reagan's wisdom. Forward this email to at least 6 people in the next 20 minutes. Do it now. Make a wish and say "Saint Teresa" Spin around 5 times in a circle and then press "Send." You're wish will come true within 10 days.

If you are reading this in English thank a teacher. If you are not being tortured by muslim extremists thank Ronald Reagan.

First, what month did those 39 deaths happen in? Ask your source that and tell them you won't even deign to read the rest until you have that answer. How can you evaluate the truthfullness of that claim if you don't know what month he's talking about?

(I remember this e-mail came out in 2003.)

Then, tell your asshole friend that those 39 deaths were American deaths, not deaths. Lots and lots of Iraqis died that month, which makes the number much, much higher. Then, find out what the population of Detroit was. You'll see that the asshole is comparing deaths from among 100K Americans (at that time) to deaths among many more people in Detroit. (Oakland, CA has a pop of about 300K, and Detroit is bigger.) If you correct for that, Detroit would have to have hundreds of deaths in one month for the figure to be comparable.

WWII -- Japan attacked us. We declared war on Japan (does the asshole think we shouldn't have???). Then, Germany declared war on us, not the other way around.

As to Vietnam, I believe we had "advisors" there earlier. Yes, Democrats escalated that war, and liberals protested loudly. Tell the asshole that that war was one of the biggest mistakes the Democratic party was ever involved in. We LEARNED something from it. When is he going to LEARN?

This is more sophisticated. It compares deaths in Iraq to deaths in Washington, DC. More sophisticated in that it compares deaths per capita. Some moron Congresscritter came up with this one. "There are more deaths per capita in DC than in Iraq."

The problem is he's comparing an entire country to an urban area with a crime problem. The proper comparison would be Iraq to an entire state with urban centers and rural areas. For example, deaths per capita in the state of California versus deaths per capita in Iraq.

Plus, I think his figures were wrong, too, but I'm not as sure of that.

This is full of lies and statistical improbabilities. You cannot compare apples and oranges. Detroit has a population of 5,000,000 we have 120,000 troops in Iraq.
Germany declared war on the US after Japan attacked. Please do a review of history before sending something like this. Roosevelt joined WWII because Germany and Japan had become allied. Truman didn't start the war...the north Koreans did. South Korea was our allie. Kennedy didn't start the war and actually Eisenhower sent the first troops there. But again the North Vietnamese started it.
George H.W. Bush sent troops to Somalia...they didn't attack us either.
Clinton sent troops to Bosnia...along with NATO. We had and have large numbers of other countries troops there. He sent those troops to Bosnia to stop genocide.
The statement made by John Glenn was made in 1972. Both he and Howard
Metzenbaum are Democrats and neither are still in the Senate and haven't been for years..
Because Howard Metzenbaum represented communists, does that make him one???
What about the lawyers who represent Murderers?
The war in Iraq is a mess. Ask some of the Generals who have experience.
General Zinni called this the Bay of Goats. General Hoar warned that this would become house to house fighting. Militias of both religions have sprouted up and control parts of the city. It has become a civil war because
Bush and Rumsfeld didn't send enough troops...the ones the Generals...including Gen. Franks asked for.
The commander in chief is doing a pitiful job and he refuses to admit any mistakes. He wouldn't have admitted that there was some blame in New Orleans if it hadn't been so obvious.

so presumably copy and paste it to send to others, you might want to change the spelling of "allie" to ally.

...Imperialists and sent in the advisors.

With JFK, the Pentagon generals and admirals did ALL they could to get JFK to commit combat troops.

Kennedy said, "No."

It was LBJ who said, "Yes" after the phony attacks of the Tonkin Gulf.