Are we winning this war in Iraq?

Forget what that idiot President of ours might say. Forget the right wing spun up douche bag "news" you might have heard on the radio.

War is the pursuit of aims by the use of arms.

Losing a war is defined as not achieving the aims.

If you define the United States of America's aims in Iraq as bringing that country freedom and democracy we are most certainly losing this war.

If you define the United States of America's aims in Iraq as chocking the production of oil in one of the worlds most oil rich nations, thereby driving the price of oil up and enabling American oil companies to make record profits. We are most certainly winning.

It's just a question of perspective.

then no one can identify who the real losers are.

?

fleecing of the American taxpayer.

Oh, and the soldiers are the losers too. They've been duped into thinking this is a noble cause.

The war has been over for some time now.

...amidst all the discussion of what to do about Iraq-- stay, withdraw, a little of both-- what are the objectives we're actually trying to accomplish? In specific terms, not amorphous generalities like "support the new government of Iraq blah blah blah" or "delivering liberty" like it was a pizza. What are those objectives, and what signs do we use to recognize whether we're succeeding or failing to meet them?

Even Vietnam had the defined goal of containing communism, however misguided that was.

This really is the central issue with this war.

I had to hear this from MGen Natonski on several occasions during Opertion Al Fajr (Fallujah 2004).

they are waiting until the Iraqis are done killing each other and americans. They will be done when they're no more people to govern and the puppets are arranged in the manner that the bushites want then they will say that they have won.

In that sense no, but were trying.

Only about 90% of Iraq hates what bush has done and because of him, hate all of us.