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Deepak Chopra: Try listening to Muslim world

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:49 AM
Original message
Deepak Chopra: Try listening to Muslim world

The new watchword phrase for the war is "the way forward in Iraq."
To extricate himself from the quicksand of bad news from that conflict, President Bush came up with the theme just before his surprise June 13 visit to Baghdad. He told reporters days earlier that he was going to Camp David "with a lot of my Cabinet members to discuss the way forward in Iraq, to analyze the new government, to look carefully at what their blueprint for the future looks like, and to figure out how we can help."

Yet at a time when fewer than one-third of Americans believe that the Iraq war has made us more secure, how is a deeper commitment to winning the war going "the way forward"?

Isn't it possible that we would be more secure by trying to understand how Muslims think and feel?

One can see why our policy toward the Arab world doesn't include much trust. After U.S. bombing killed the infamous terrorist Abu Musab al-Zaqarwi, a newscast said that a sizable percentage of Sunni Muslims didn't believe that Mr. al-Zarqawi ever existed - they believe he was an American invention used to cover up the murder of Iraqi Sunnis.

Watching the news, one would think that all Muslims are either wildly fanatic or wildly irrational.

cont'd...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.chopra21jun21,0,6893038.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow ! What a novel concept....
listen to what others think. WOW ! Why hasn't someone thought of this before. :evilgrin:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Amazing, isn't it?
Sure beats that "my way or the highway" mentality.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. it's interesting . . .
. . . to see Deepak becomming a political writer.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is a deep and fundamental problem here
According the Governments of the World, the UN is the final arbiter for listening. The peoples of the world can't talk to one another anymore. The Governments do the "talking", this is the supreme tragedy of the XX Century or the "Let's kill Half A Billion People" Century.

The Regime has convinced enough Americans (not all, not half, maybe 59 million) that War is needed. And the majority of Muslim peoples around the world are being taught that All Americans are war criminals, that the US running amok is due to impious behavior.

So, while dialouges would be nice, how should an American, a small group of Americans, A County, A City accomplish it? After all if you're talking to Al Qaeda (possibly all members of the Islamic Faith) WE wanna know about it!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm fine with listening, but legit islamic govnt have to stomp out terror
Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 12:24 PM by aikoaiko
of course most Muslims are for peace and against the terror tactics of the few. But there remains a radical violent asshole bumch of muslims who determined to kill because their fundie religion is dying.


eta: sorry I meant to reply to the OP.

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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. But, many Islamic Governments are the problem as well.
Take the Cartoon Controversy for instance: The governments of Syria and Egypt profited by keeping their respective citizens deluded to the evils of those in power in those nations and by blaming the Jews or the Crusaders for all Islam's problems...

So, I won't hold my breath for the day when the People around the world realize their own Governments always benefit by War and Nationalism and keeping them depressed and deluded
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The cartoon controversy was a popular movement.
No surprise. If some country published a cartoon with Martin Luther King swinging from a porch and sucking on a watermelon there'd be a lot of pissed off Americans.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I'd be pissed, but
I don't think there'd be any embassies burning around the world.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Perhaps not.
But then again, Americans right when their team wins the Superbowl.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Yeah. Sure it was.
The Controversy didn't get going until a group of Danish Imams having been rebuffed by Danish Government toured the the middle east with a dossier including 3 fake pictures not drawn originally and a bunch of false hate filled letters said to have sent to Muslims in Denmark.

30 Sept 2005 cartoons published
27 Oct 2005 Muslim organiztions in Europe file complaints under Danish law
6 Dec 2005 Danish Imams show the false dossier around Organisation of the Islamic Conference, which sent a request to the UN
It wasn't until early 2006 people began to rise up in a popular movement.

Then all of a Sudden Danish flags were to be found in every rally against the desecration of Muhammed (PBUH). And while I could believe Islamic Nations have boxes of American Flags for burning I can't believe they had stores of Danish ones ready for the torch.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Oh, those uppity Imams.
What a bunch of rabble-rousers.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. EXACTLY
As soon as I read the title I winced.

I have nothing against "The Muslim World" but to sort of broadbrush all Muslims or all Muslim nations as credible parties to listen to I must call bullshit on that, the same way I would call bullshit if someone claimed that all Christians all Jews all ANY religion or "world" is completely full of people that I should be required to attune to.

These governments are no better or worse than the religious Christo-facist bastards we face here at home.


I would rather see movement to stifle and completely cease our dependence on these governments.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. It's a real shame who our Government supports
in the name of the Interests of the American People. Compund that with how hard it is to learn what your elected Rulers are doing and the limited desire most people have to actually learn and you have a receipe for support for Dictators, murderers and Tyrants.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. We need to study the Islamic governments
to determine what, if anything, they are doing to promote terror or promote peace. First of all, is the government, indeed, "legitimate"-I'm not sure of your definition of that term; for me it means a government that is responsive to the needs of their people. Many of the governments in the Middle East are not legitimate; the rulers often keep their power by appealing to the radicals. Those governments which are viewed as legitimate by the West often crack down on civil rights within their countries; the surge of fundamentalism is often a reaction to this repression.

One thing the US and the West might need to do is to examine the problems within each Muslim country and ascertain how they can best help the governments there make their populations more content; the hatred and violence espoused by fundamentalists is often a reaction to hopelessness and misery.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I do not think only Islamic Governments are
illegitmate. I'm not a big fan of most governments, including the US. The problem comes about with what should be done to reform, remove or redesign the governments of the world.

The current world order, including the UN is designed around ensuring those nation-states in place remain the way they are, whether or not the Government ruling them is corrupt and evil. Peru in the 90s is an example. China and Tianemen square another. Turkish treatment of the Kurds, the world's treatment of the Roma people...

And the US government hasn't represented "it's" peoples for many years.

In the big scheme I would like the US address it's own issues but this may be impossible under the current world order. To much tied up in Forward military bases, the IMF, G8, NATO, the UN...

Concerning the defintion of "Legitimate Government", the US is probably to large a NAtion 298+ million to be responsive to the needs of their people. History has shown smaller nations often are better. This below link gets into some of the dismal place the US is in on many issues, but I highlighted the population difference between those nations which rank high compared to the US:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1475257
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Muslims I know have opened dialog
right here in the US, and have been holding ecumenical conferences ever since 9/11. Last year, in Dallas, there was a meeting of many different faiths, discussing how to gain peace. There were death threats from fundy groups in the area, and the participants were given police protection.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. The whole purpose of the "terrorism" construction is to prevent dialog.
Repeatedly, they repeat repeatedly that there can be no "negotiating" with terrorists.

One of the goals is to actually demonize to the point that there cannot even be valid information about the supposed enemy, and the public is inundated by a phantom menace, comprised mostly of incessant images of the Other.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yep
I've seen the demonization take root here in this part of the US-you know, it is easy to see Muslims as monsters if you don't know any.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent column by Deepak.
Great analogy about the monolithic nature of the fight against Communism and the "War Against Terrorism". Does anybody out there, even a visiting freeper believe that if you were to live through a foreign nation dropping 500-2000lb bombs on your neighbor's house, you would then run out and embrace them, what kind of logic is that?
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's a fairly decent article.
It's good on a social level for raising awareness, but I doubt the Pentagon gives a shit.
I wish Deepak would have lauched a more direct attack against the bush admin's behavior. It's almost as if his approach is to suggest how we can better fight the war in Iraq.

Side note, the one liner from the fictional Muslim teenager in the Updike novel "these devils want to take away my God" strikes me as being very similar to the irrational attitude of the religious right in the United States today. When I believed in God, I sure as hell didn't think it was possible for anyone to take it away from me.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. "these devils want to take away my God"
That's the first thing that came to mind when I read that line as well. The fundies here in America can certainly be compared to that line of thinking.
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