Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

== Bush**'s plan to monitor intl bank records NOT SECRET

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 02:02 AM
Original message
== Bush**'s plan to monitor intl bank records NOT SECRET
In an article that's no longer on their site, the NYT reported on April 9, 2005 that the Bush** administration was seeking access to international bank transactions. See thread from that date for some of the text from that article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1382850

A Yahoo News article dated April 10, 2005 -- also since deleted -- repeats the info:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Bush administration is developing a plan to give the government access to possibly hundreds of millions of international banking records in an effort to trace and deter terrorist financing, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.

Citing interviews with government officials, the newspaper reported that the new initiative, conceived by a working group within the Treasury Department, would vastly expand government access to financial transactions via logs of international wire transfers into and out of U.S. banks.

The plan, still in the preliminary stages, grew out of a brief, little-noticed provision in the intelligence reform bill passed by Congress in December, the Times said. It would give the government tools to track leads on specific suspects and to analyze patterns in terrorist financing and other finance crimes, the officials said.

The newspaper reported that the officials, aware of concerns about privacy, want to include safeguards to prevent misuse of the enormous cache of financial records.


It's on TalkLeft on April 10, 2005:

Government Wants More Access to Banking Records

Once again, it appears Congress didn't do its homework. Buried in the recently passed Intelligence Reform Bill, is a provision that paves the way for the Government to ask for millions of international bank records. (snip)


And it's referenced in the ACLU of MA Civil Liberties Update of April 22, 2005:

• US WANTS ACCESS TO INTERNATIONAL BANKING RECORDS
The April 10th New York Times reported that as part of its effort to trace terror funding,
the US Treasury Department wants access to logs of international banking transfers in
and out of the United States. Some banking compliance officials are meanwhile
complaining about the confusion and rule changing in what the government is
demanding of banks, and their sense that the system is being clogged with irrelevant
"suspicious activity reports" (SARS).


It's mentioned in various other places, too.

What you won't find is any reaction to the 2005 NYT article from the Bush** administration...because there was none. No authoritarian brow-beating, no threats of dragging reporters' rear ends to court for exposing a "secret" plan to terrorists. In fact the Yahoo article says government officials were interviewed by the NYT for the 2005 story!!

So what's with all the melodrama? WHERE'S THE FUCKING SECRET?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Great finds!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. David Suskind said the same thing on Tweety, tonight.
He wrote about it in his new book. He said it's NOT a secret. Terrorists no longer use wire transfers because they've known for awhile that we were on to them. Now, they use couriers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Ron Suskind is his name
Author of the "One Percent Doctrine". Matthews was reading from page 279 all about the details of the banking records and what the government was doing and how the terrorist found out. It was quite an interesting exchange. Suskind said he had written about it way before the Times article and the book was released over a week ago.

Bush and Cheney were phoney about their indignation at the NY Times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Oops. I have no idea what I was thinking when I typed that.
:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. I heard banking was under the gun..right after 9/11.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep. And so did the terrorists.
I was just royally t'd off when I tuned into CNN for the headlines yesterday afternoon and got an earful of Bush** throwing a hissy fit over this. He struck me as so disingenuous (as usual), particularly because I remembered this being reported as planned some time ago.

All he's really looking for with his table-thumping routine is another excuse to curb the press. They still do manage to get the truth out every now and then, as with this...and he can't STAND it because the truth always makes him look like the conniving POS he really is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Check 21 Act...nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lusted4 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Gov has been talking about it since 9/11 remember follow the money n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I know. This is just a bit more specific.
And by golly, anytime I can prove that Bush** is a manipulative fraud and bully who suffers from delusions of his own self-importance, I take great pleasure in doing so!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. a question
according to news reports - the bushies tried to get the NY Times NOT to run the article. They spent a couple of months talking to NY Times about it.

so when it was published - it shouldn't have been a surprise

right-wingers are out there foaming at the mouth - calling it treason (funny they didn't have this reaction when PLAME was outed)...

here's the question: The bushies knew about the article, they probably knew it was going to be printed - if printing it is grounds for a charge of treason wouldn't you think they would have had Gonzales prepare formal charges and have it ready to serve within 48 hours of publication?

it's been about a week now - and nary a peep about investigating/charging NY Times from the AG's office.

I know there are some reps/senators out there sputtering about it - but to my knowledge there have been no reports/indications that the AG/bushies intend to file formal charges...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't know, it's a good question
I've been wondering if perhaps the NYT was warned off last year, when they printed the first article about it. But I think not. Such a thing hasn't been mentioned by either side -- and it would be very like Bush** to say, "Hey, we warned them last year not to print another article like this, and they did it anyway" -- which leads me to believe they weren't warned. That and the fact that gov't officials gave NYT their 2005 story!

My best guess would be if BushCo think they can get away with filing charges, they will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. I would SO love
for these tidbits to jump up out of cyberspace and bite the idiot son on the ass, HARD!

It's time for LTTEs, phone calls to WJ. Can we get AAR on the case?

Is this why there was no discussion this week about the Admin pursuing the people who "leaked" this information?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~you know it is~..... . . . . . . . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. "international bank transactions"
I'll bet the were checking out domestic transactions too, just like they were tapping domestic calls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That'll come out in another 6 months' time
...once the sheeple are judged to have accepted the current circumstances without all-out revolt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. See post #25 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm betting that it wasn't just international accounts they were...
looking at.

At first they said on every news show that the only calls they tapped were calls going out or coming into the country. Then finally they admitted that they tapped millions of domestic calls. They flat out lied and I'll bet you anything they are lying AGAIN.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. Were these links forwarded to Countdown?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's all about the timing.
They couldn't get them to wait until after the elections, so they decided to make it a 'positive' by going off on how reckless the NYT is and how hard they are working to protect us.

With these guys you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
16. Bush even mentioned it while campaigning in 2004
Before September the 11th, law enforcement could more easily obtain business and financial records of white-collar criminals than of suspected terrorists. See, part of the way to make sure that we catch terrorists is we chase money trails. And yet it was easier to chase a money trail with a white-collar criminal than it was a terrorist. The Patriot Act ended this double standard and it made it easier for investigators to catch suspected terrorists by following paper trails here in America.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040419-4.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well then it is a shame about how they dropped the ball before &after 9/11
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ooops - Dupe
Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 01:58 PM by RobertSeattle
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. so the sound & bloviated fury coming from *, cheney, and snow is more
election cycle BS, designed to ENERGIZE THE BASE.

No wonder Wolfie, Candie, Tweetie, and FAUX are so enamoured with this story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. The quick and obvious answer, where the secret was,
is that the US isn't the center of everything and everybody's world. I know it must come as a shock that US politics isn't the end-all of existence.

It's been known that transactions in and out of the US are monitored. But the work around is obvious: Don't wire money from NYC to Karachi, Pakistan. Wire it to London, and have a friend in London wire it onward; tell the friend to keep his nose clean, and nobody'll suspect him. Or, even better, since the Brits may be sympathetic, wire it to a friend in Yemen, and have him wire it to Pakistan. Yemen probably wouldn't cooperate with *, at least not quickly or efficiently.

But most likely the wire transfers, indicating amount, who's sending the money, from where and to where, would be in SWIFT's database. Each account, each person, each transfer would be a dot. Most dots are meaningless. Some aren't.

But you can't connect dots if you don't have any.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. My favorite thing in all of this has been Bush calling the "leak"
disgraceful, among other things. Then in his next breath he uses the 9/11 commission report to justify the financial spying. "It was in the 9/11 commission report, they recommended that we follow finances, so we are."
So lemme get this straight. They are angry that a newspaper "leaked" information about a "secret" program that was recommended in a report that anyone with access to the internet could read or anyone close to a book store could buy for 25 bucks. Man, that's almost as secret a program as that one where we were listening in to terrorist phone calls. I bet if that hadn't been leaked those terorists would still be assuming that all their phone calls are secure. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Agree. The "secret" was revealed here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Perhaps related?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
25. Really. The NY Fed is doing this daily anyway...
Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 11:44 PM by EVDebs
Check 21 Act
http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/cpaltr/dec2004/implicate.htm

and NY Fed check clearinghouse operations
http://www.ny.frb.org/aboutthefed/introtothefed.html

show the US doing the identical thing from domestic to international that the supposedly secret Brussels international to domestic surveillance was doing.

It all boils down to the Bahamas based Global Information Group, headed by Ben H. Bell, IIIrd, where TIA was offshored and privatized

Bahamas based company to gather security data
http://www.bahamasb2b.com/news/wmview.php?ArtID=4215

Where does that check go ?
http://money.howstuffworks.com/question500.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 15th 2024, 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC