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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:47 PM
Original message
Howard Dean Scores! DNC 50-State Plan for a "Voters' Bill of Rights"
I can't believe this!! I am so excited I can barely type!! Finally!! Hope!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

December 28th, 2005

Democratic Party Announces 50-State Plan for enacting "Voters' Bill of Rights"

Washington, DC – The Democratic Party is committed to winning elections at every level in every region of the country, and has had great success in raising funds to put organizers on the ground in every state. These organizers have, thus far, worked to identify and support Democratic candidates for the 2006 elections. Today, the Democratic National Committee unveiled an exciting new aspect to its 50-state strategy.

Howard Dean, who pledged to make election reform his priority as Chair of the DNC, is now turning his attention to this matter in earnest. In a press conference held earlier today, Chairman Dean stated that the Democratic Party, the party of the people, is going to invest massive amounts of time, energy, and money over the next 10 months to ensure that every vote is counted in the 2006 elections.

Dr. Dean thanked long-time election reform advocates for their tremendous efforts thus far, while acknowledging that the Democratic Party is perhaps the only organization with enough reach to do the work necessary to make the 2006 elections truly free and fair. The pledge to 'count every vote' must be fulfilled by (1) educating citizens about vulnerabilities in our current voting system, (2) enacting new legislation in all 50 states, and (3) organizing citizens to participate in conducting elections in every precinct throughout the nation.

The new DNC "Voters' Bill of Rights" has been adapted from the Massachusett's "Voters' Bill of Rights" created by lawyer John Bonifaz, now running for Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 2006. Election reform advocates praised Chairman Dean's announcement today and pledged to continue to work tirelessly for the sake of our democracy.

Voters' Bill of Rights

1. Count every vote

The right to vote includes the right to have our votes properly counted.

We must ensure that every citizen's vote will be counted. This includes a guarantee of open and transparent elections with verified voting, paper trails, and access to the source codes for, and random audits of, electronic voting machines. It also includes a guarantee that we the people, through our government, will control our voting machines — not private companies.

2. Make voting easier

We should enact election day registration, removing the barrier of registration prior to Election Day. Six states have election day registration. They have a higher voter turnout in their elections and have no evidence of voter fraud. We should be encouraging greater participation in the political process, starting with election day registration.

We should also ensure absentee voting for all, allow for early voting, and remove other barriers that make it difficult for people to vote - including new 'poll taxes' enacted in the state of Indiana.

3. End the big money dominance of our electoral process

In a democracy, public elections should be publicly financed. In Maine and Arizona, publicly financed elections has enabled people to run for office who would never have dreamed of running under a system dominated by big money interests. We, as voters, need to own our elections, rather than allow the process to be controlled by the wealthy few.

We also need to enact mandatory limits on campaign spending. In 1976, the Supreme Court wrongly struck down mandatory campaign spending limits for congressional elections. A federal appeals court in New York has recently revisited that decision and ruled that campaign spending limits in Vermont can be constitutional. That case is now pending before the U.S. Supreme Court. Massachusetts should help lead the way with campaign spending limits for our elections.

4. Expand voter choice

Instant run-off voting: Voters should be able to rank their choices of candidates, ensuring majority support for those elected and allowing greater voter choice and wider voter participation.

Cross Endorsement Voting (Fusion voting): Voters should be able to cast their ballots for major party candidates on a minor party's ballot line, placing power in the hands of the people and broadening public debate on the issues of the day.

Proportional Representation: Voters should be allowed their fair share of representation, ensuring that majority rule does not prevent minority voices from being heard.

5. Ensure access for new citizens and language minorities

The right to vote does not speak one specific language. It is universal. No one should be denied the right to vote because of a language barrier.

6. Level the playing field for challengers

Redistricting reform — Incumbent legislators should not have the power to draw their own district lines. We must transfer this power to independent non-partisan commissions and create fair standards for redistricting, thereby promoting competition in our electoral process and improving representation for the people.

7. Ensure non-partisan election administration

The Secretary of the Commonwealth must be a Secretary for all of us, regardless of party affiliation. The Secretary should not be allowed to serve as a co-chair of campaigns of candidates. To ensuring the people's trust in the integrity of our elections, the Secretary must conduct the administration of elections in a non-partisan manner.

8. Make government more accessible to all of us

Democracy is not just about our participation on Election Day. We need to participate every day and our government needs to be accessible to us every day. This means a government that is open and transparent, that encourages people to make their voices heard, and that enlists citizen participation in addressing the major issues of our time.

9. Re-authorize the Voting Rights Act of 1965

We must continue the fight to protect the right to vote and to end voting disenfranchisement schemes. The Secretary of the Commonwealth must fight for congressional re-authorization of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

10. Amend the US Constitution to ensure an affirmative right to vote

One hundred and eight democratic nations in the world have explicit language guaranteeing the right to vote in their constitutions, and the United States — along with only ten other such nations — does not. As a result, the way we administer elections in this country changes from state to state, from county to county, from locality to locality. The Secretary of the Commonwealth must fight for a constitutional amendment that affirmatively guarantees the right to vote in the US Constitution.


Okay - now for the bitter truth. This post is a lie. No such announcement from the DNC or Dean. :cry: :cry: :mad: :cry: :cry:

Could someone who calls election reform/election fraud posters at DU 'tinfoil hatters' explain to me exactly how the Democratic Party could be harmed by announcing this pro-active approach for free and fair elections?!?!?!


Here is the current, pitiful statement about election reform from the DNC website: "A fundamental tenet of our democracy is our right to vote and to have that vote counted. But we must be vigilant in protecting those rights and ensuring that our voting system works for every American. Democrats are determined to reforming the voting system in this country to create federal standards for our elections. Our voting system must include verification, accountability, and accuracy. Democrats want to increase access to polls with Election Day registration, shorter lines, and early voting. We also want to modernize election equipment and increase impartiality."

Why is the DNC statement PITIFUL? If the DNC thinks that we can elect people in 2006 that will enact election reform once they are in office aren't they leaving something really, really important out? Like, maybe:

IF THE GOP STEALS 2006 ELECTIONS WE WON'T HAVE OUR ELECTION REFORMERS IN OFFICE?!?!?!?!


Were you excited to hear that Dean/DNC had a 50-State Plan to ensure free and fair elections? Do you want the DNC to be far more specific, far more proactive? Then, please, please tell the good Dr. Dean:
<http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman>

P.S. Do *not* flame me for being anti-Howard Dean, because I am not anti-Howard Dean. I spoke out in favor of his election, I *love* when he speaks truth to power - which he does often - and I donate $$$$. His 50-State strategy to identify and election candidates won't work if the votes aren't counted fairly.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Howard will crush our enemies
They are subhuman.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent piece -- and you REALLY had me going ...
The point is that this particular issue must be addressed NOW for two (somewhat obvious)reasons:

1. Without a fair election process, all other points that the Dems make will be moot - because they'll never be elected to office.

2. If the issue is spoken about after the 2006 elections, the Repugs will label it 'sour grapes'. If it is spoken about NOW, the Repugs have no basis for argument -- what Repug running for office is going to take the opposing view and say, "We don't need fair elections in this country"?

NOW is the time ...
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Exactly!!
I hadn't even thought about the second issue in a while - to avoid the 'whiners' accusation we must be pro-active!

:kick:
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
84. Wahhhh! I wanted it to be true!
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. I was just about to write a HUGE endorsement before I saw it was a lie!!
I have withheld money from Dean, even tho I like him as a person, because of this issue. Each time I've been called or written or emailed about this, I've said the same thing: until you make election reform #1 priority, I won't contribute a cent. Once you do that, I will give till it hurts.

When I saw this post, I thought maybe somebody had heard me, but of course no such luck.

Still the same naive, completely idiotic acceptance of the fraudulent voting machines and a voting system where the vote has been privatized and is counted by extreme partisans of one side without being audited or checked in any way. Where the purvweyors of this nonsense refuse or do everything they can to avoid a paper ballot print-out to use for auditing, who claim it is LESS accurate to have a paper trail. This is the kind of brain dead election officials we have.

If anybody anywhere can call what we have a democracy, I'd like to read the book this guy has read that defines it that way or find out what kook-aid he's been drinking. And what are Dems drinking to try to skirt this issue?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Sorry. To be fair, please do check out the resolution the DNC
passed:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5703353#5703557>

It has a lot of what we want - what is still missing, in IMHO is *action* - an organized plan of action to be carried out across the nation; and a promise of time, energy & money to be invested in getting this done!

I want *a lot* - I want the organizers across the nation who are implementing the 50-State Strategy to find and support good candidates to divide their time between *campaigns* and *election reform*.



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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. The DNC passed a long resolution on voting reforms earlier this month
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 04:12 PM by MaineDem
I posted it here. I'm sure it's in the archives.

Here it is:

WHEREAS, in June, 2005, the Democratic National Committee completed its exhaustive
review of the presidential campaign in Ohio; and

WHEREAS, the resulting report, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” documents
that more than one quarter of Ohio voters reported problems with their voting experience, and
African Americans were more than two times as likely as white voters to claim they encountered
problems with their voting experience; and

WHEREAS, this report confirms evidence of widespread voter confusion; voter suppression;
negligence and incompetence on the part of election officials; long lines at the polls; improper
requests for voter identification, particularly among young voters and African American voters;
the failure to properly process absentee ballots and the improper use of provisional ballots in
Ohio on Election Day 2004; and

WHEREAS, evaluations of the administrative processes and technology used by election
officials in Ohio revealed that inadequate and insecure voting systems were pervasive
throughout Ohio—unreliable punch card systems and insecure, unverifiable direct record
electronic (DRE) machines; and

WHEREAS, 71 percent of white voters in Ohio were very confident their vote was counted but
only 19 percent of African American voters were confident their votes were counted; and

WHEREAS, the right to vote and to have that vote accurately counted is the bedrock on which
our democracy stands and nothing is more fundamental to our freedom than our confidence in
the integrity of our democratic institutions; and

WHEREAS, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” makes recommendations for
future action by parties, legislators and local election officials to improve future elections;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) will
continue to work with Members of Congress, lawmakers in all 50 United States, the District of
Columbia, and all U.S. Territories, local election officials, and community leaders to update and
reform our election laws to ensure that voter confidence in our election system is restored and
maintained;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in
Ohio” recommends several actions; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends states, the District of Columbia
and all U. S. Territories codify into law all required election practices, including requirements for
the adequate training of official poll workers; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommend lawmakers adopt uniform and clear
published standards for the distribution of voting equipment and the assignment of official poll
workers among precincts, to ensure adequate and nondiscriminatory access, and that these
procedures be based on set ratios of numbers of machines and poll workers per number of voters
expected to turn out, and should be made available for pub lic comment before being adopted;
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers adopt legislation to
make clear and uniform the rules on voter registration; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and local election
officials adopt clear and uniform rules on the use of, and the counting of, provisional ballots, and
distribute them for public comment well in advance of each Election Day, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends touch screen (DRE) machines not
be used until a reliable voter verifiable audit feature can be uniformly incorporated into these
systems and that in the event of a recount, the paper or other auditable record should be
considered the official record; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends remaining punch card systems
should be discontinued; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make it easier for
college students to vote in the jurisdiction in which their school is located; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers develop procedures to
ensure that voting is facilitated, without compromising security or privacy, for all eligible voters
living overseas; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make voter suppression
a criminal offense in all states, the District of Columbia and all U.S. Territories; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and election officials
should improve the training of poll workers.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. The DNC Resolution is great, really, really great...
I am on your side and I do see that Brazile's report would probably never have been written at all if Dr. Dean was not the Chair of the Party.

So far what we have is a report from Donna Brazile *to* Howard Dean.

What we need, I am arguing, is a statement *from* Dr. Dean that the organizers across the nation will devote equal time to campaigns and to election reform education & action.

Further, the report from Brazile, in its current form, is an 'unfunded mandate.' Nothing happens without money.

Howard Dean can raise that money and he can reach into the Democratic Party of every county in every state - no one else has that power or that reach.

We need Howard *out front* - and I have written him and will continue to do so. I (along with dozens of others) wrote David Cobb and Michael Badnarik in the first few days after 11/2/04 - I asked them to please ask for a recount in Ohio. Badnarik's campaign manager wrote me back to say that the cost of recounting would be more than they spent on the entire Badnarik campaign. I (and others) told him to put out a request for the funds via email and internet - that if they only asked, people would contribute. I contributed and so did others. The recount was funded.

If Howard Dean puts out a call for funds to make election reform the DNC priority - the funds will pour in from across the nation. All he has to do is ask.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think I will ever forgive you for this post, IndyOp!
nuf said.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I am sorry, I posted it with the right intention...
:hide:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I know you did, IndyOp! Mine, too, was half tongue in cheek. It's just
that you hit upon the VERY THING that is so DESPERATELY, CRITICALLY, ABOVE ALL OTHER PRIORITIES, CRYINGLY, PLEADINGLY, **NEEDED**, with DEATH OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY hanging in the balance!

And you made me believe, for a few seconds, THAT IT WAS TRUE. It just broke my heart. I'm smiling now, but, for a minute there, I was on the verge of tears.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I feel your pain -
I get so tired of reading here at DU and hearing on AAR that 'Dean knows' and 'We can trust Howard Dean because he knows.' Knows, shmows - I want action.

I have posted comments many times that what we need is for Dean to announce a 50-State Strategy to inhibit, detect, and fight election fraud and we need it *now*. Dean has the megaphone and he has the organizers already in the states and he can raise *big bucks* to do this work, easily.

And Dean *can* do it! I BELIEVE in Howard - :loveya:

(Regarding my skill at lying: My parents were raised in North Texas (Oklahoma) and I learned early that the greatest entertainment a Texan can have is to lie *big* and get away with it. The bigger the lie the greater the entertainment value. I only wish I could teach all of the America this little lesson. :( )
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Other than #4
Democrats are advocating everything you listed, and more. There is various legislation and platform statements that address all of this. Perhaps people need to spend a little more time helping Democrats get their agenda into the public eye instead of helping to spread the nonsense that the agenda doesn't exist.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I know there is legislation & that there are platform statements -
The legislation appears 'here and there' and the 'platform statements' are not the solution to our problem - platform statements are campaign promises of people who aren't elected. How will they get to carry out their campaign promises if their election is stolen?

What is missing is a grand national campaign - led by the charismatic Party Chair - not piecemeal, but a coherent 'battleplan' - if all I can find on the DNC website then the DNC is not doing enough to get their agenda in the public eye.

Further, we need action now - time, energy, money - the DNC organizers hired to support candidates & campaigns must dedicate equal time to educating & mobilizing the public to combat election fraud in the 2006 race.

The GOP pays full-time organizers to do this stuff and even has people in think-tanks who write legislation that is submitted to states across the nation to bias elections in favor of the GOP - that is where the 'poll tax' bills in Indiana and North Carolina (I think NC) came from.

Suggesting that because I posted my frustration indicates that I am not working to get the Dem agenda into the public eye misses the point in two ways (1) I am scheduled to give a presentation about election reform in a few weeks - that will include all the DNC agenda, (2) we need more than grassroots - we need leadership and people who are paid to dedicate their time and energy to this issue.

I want *equal time* the 50-State Strategy should divide money, energy, and organizers' time equally between campaigning and making sure that elections are free and fair.

:hi:

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Then say that
Say what you mean and mean what you say. The gratuitous bash the Democrat approach is nauseating.

So let's round it up, what is on the table at the national level, the grassroots groups, and candidates who have election reform on their agenda. Let's pull it into one comprehensive package that one umbrella group can be the central voice for. If not the DNC, a group who is loud enough and has the pull to put it in their faces.

Here's Oregon's, who has done alot of national work as well.

http://www.oregonvrc.org/
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. The DNC, specifically Howard Dean must lead -
They haven't. So far we have a pretty damn good report from Donna Brazile to Howard Dean and a good resolution passed by the DNC. What we don't have is the comprehensive package, what we don't have is the national leader, what we don't have is the promise of action in all 50 states.

My big reason for poking (not quite bashing) at Dean: The campaigns, the candidates, the GOTV activity doesn't mean a thing if the vote is not free and fair. What is the best way to get people to work on behalf of the Dems - show them what is being done to make sure that their work will pay off - that it won't go to waste.

The Oregon site looks great - my hope is that activist areas like Oregon (and North Carolina and New Mexico) will spur Howard Dean and the DNC into action that will touch all areas of the US.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. That isn't how the Dem Party works
We are an activist driven party. Environment, abortion rights, gay rights, voting, equal opportunity, labor, housing, child care, they're all activist group issues. The leading groups act as a conduit, funneling legislative priorities up to the leadership and down to the grassroots and voters. You want election reform to become a national issue, you have to show there's a base to support it. I think it's there, it just has to be connected together and unified.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. I think the Dem Party needs to try a new dance -
Activist driven - excellent, fantastic.
Strong leadership - we *need* it. Not just good candidates - long-term leadership that represents true Democratic values.

Fundraising requires strong leadership. A comprehensive, nationwide plan for election reform has been started at the grassroots and your Oregon group is an excellent example of this - now we need leadership -- Dean is our representative, our guy -- I want my representative to step out and lead. Help us direct energy and money where it needs to go...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. That's the old dance
One guy who can gather together all the demands of all the interest groups and push them in one direction. A new dance would be activist groups learning how to interact with each other and back each other up on issues, which is actually the way the right does it. When they don't, their party falls apart too. Like with Schiavo and Miers.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:43 PM
Original message
Oh, stop with the "gratuitous bash the Democrat" accusation already.
Two rightwing Bushite corporations counting all our votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls.

And not one word, not a breath of warning, from the Democratic Party leadership.

Get me started, and I'll bash a few Democrats good and properly over this, sandnsea.

It was a dereliction of duty of THE FIRST MAGNITUDE.

And now we get "resolutions" and "platforms" and "reports," and we continue to run into BLANK STARES from Democratic politicians who apparently think it's OKAY for rightwing Bushite corporations to be counting all our votes in secret, or gee, just haven't ever thought about it before.

What should have happened is a BIG HOUSE CLEANING, starting with all the Democratic election officials who attended that bash at the Beverly Hilton this August--a week of fun, sun and high-end shopping, for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

Lifelong Democrat here--40 years of loyal Democratic Party voting--countless hours at get-out-the-vote, many contributions--and I HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY THIS: The Democratic Party leadership failed us, catastrophically, by allowing a fraudulent election SYSTEM to be put into place that has effectively destroyed our right to vote.

And they dare to give me a RESOLUTION about it?!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. Say what you mean and mean what you say
That's exactly what I told IndyOp. Enough with this GRATUITOUS BASHING. It does NO GOOD. Get to the point on the failures of the machines. If people had focused on that, instead of right wing corporate conspiracy theories, maybe somebody would have listened sooner. You seem to think elected officials have nothing better to do than to sift through mounds of unsubstantiated innuendo in order to get to the one or two pieces of legitimate concern. You also ignore the background with which we got these machines in the first place. One, voting shenanigans have been going on, within both parties, forever. And, the machines were supported by handicapped groups and immigrant groups so people could vote without assistance. As you might recall, not having interpreters was part of the voting problem in Florida. So to say Democrats completely ignored everything related to voting issues is flat wrong. They were dealing with the positive aspects of DRE's against the highly unlikely scenario of a nationally orchestrated election conspiracy. The fact that we even have legislation introduced at the national level that would require paper audits is a significant step in the right direction. But I don't see anybody advocating that legislation, all I've seen is people jumping up and down about hand counts and instant runoff and stuff that most people have no clue about and wouldn't want if they did.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Sandnsea, are you saying to me that Democrats DIDN'T NOTICE that
a. Reclusive far rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson kick-started ES&S, a spin-off from Diebold, and that...

b. Diebold was headed by Bush campaign chair Wally O'Dell, who promised to "deliver Ohio" to Bush/Çheney in 2004, and that...

c. These two companies, run by two brothers, had gained control of 80% of the vote tabulation in the country, and that...

d. They tabulate our votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls?

--------------

They were all worried about handicap access (one of those groups funded by Diebold, by the way) and foreign language ballots, and WEREN'T WORRIED ABOUT, and DIDN'T NOTICE, and therefore DID NOTHING ABOUT secret vote tabulation by rightwing Republican corporations?

I just don't buy it. And this is NOT "gratuitous bashing" of Democrats. They frigging LOST US the right to vote. We DON'T HAVE transparent elections any more. REPUBLICANS ARE COUNTING OUR VOTES IN SECRET!!!!!

And I think it's damned suspicious that they're STILL not doing anything substantial about it; STILL not warning the country about it; and STILL not funding and organizing a big campaign to get it changed.

I can think of a fairly innocent reason for this--not good, but still innocent. They don't want voters to give up voting--and they also want to keep those donations coming in. But this is simply not the right thing to do, and it smells of corruption. The DNC should be truthful. They should tell it like it is. And they should have faith in the American people, who WANT to vote for them--and ask the HELP of the American people to get this done. NOW.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. oh bla bla bla
I'm SAYING that in a, b, c and d there is NO INDICATOR of the PROBLEM. Are you seriously telling me that any responsible legislator should pass laws based on the fact that a Republican owns a company???
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. heh? (nt)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #54
75. Not "A Republican owns A company." TWO far rightwing Bushite
corporations own and CONTROL the TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code that they use to TABULATE 80% OF OUR VOTES, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

And I am ABSOLUTELY telling you that ANY responsible legislator WOULD FORBID private corporations including PARTISAN private corporations from having control over vote tabulation with TRADE SECRET programming code.

Russ Holt's HR 550 does just that--it bans undisclosed software. Why do you think that HE thinks that that is critically important? (Banning undisclosed software will effectively eliminate private, for profit corporations from our elections, and the business would go to OPEN SOURCE non-profits.)

It's such a basic principle of democracy, I don't know quite how to say this. You don't know, I don't know, nobody but the programmers and CEOs of Diebold and ES&S know HOW are votes are tabulated. NO ONE--no member of the public, no secretary of state--has a right to review their code. The vote tabulation is NON-TRANSPARENT. And with no paper ballot backup in most jurisdictions, and not even a paper trail in one third of the country, there is virtually no audit/recount control. They could be flipping millions of votes--at the speed of light, UNTRACEABLY, with no one but themselves having any access to what they're doing.

Non-transparent elections are NOT elections. They are tyranny. Really, don't you "get" this, sandnsea? You can't see how NON-TRANSPARENT this is? How WRONG this is? And from the point of view of Democrats, how INSANE this is?

It is just as if we handed all the ballots to Karl Rove, and allowed him to take them into a White House basement, "count" them in secret, and come back out and TELL US who won. It is no different than this.

And, yes, by God, THAT SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW!

And if our Dem Party LEADERS don't understand this, they ought to be sent back to kindergarten. This is the whole ballgame. This is FUNDAMENTAL to our democracy.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #75
81. You still haven't said anything USEFUL
You haven't said anything about the code or how it works or the memory cards or any of the rest of it. You've simply gone off on another conspiracy theory rant. Don't you get it? Legislators cannot pass laws based on a conspiracy.

Voting code legislation is another issue and I agree that it should be open source or placed in escrow to verify the tabulation method. But that message got mixed up in the conspiracy theory and nobody heard it.

If people would stop going on about stolen elections and Republican conspiracies, and just get to the basics of the problems with the machines, we'd be alot further along.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
104. Exactly right! And, I am glad Democrats are not spending OUR money
promoting independent candidates.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is not fair.
It is just not fair.

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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Brilliant Post!!
IndyOp you are my new Hero.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Thanks - If you want to come back and provide a little support -
that would be okay. I am quickly becoming persona non grata on DU.

:(
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Attaboy, Howard. nt
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Did you read far enough to note that it is a 'spoof' post -
Dean did not make this announcement, but he could!

:hide:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Let her dream for a minute more before you plunge the knife.
And yeah, I'd hide if I were you.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's a rotten way to make a point.
Really.

:grr:
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I won't do it again, I swear. I am sorry.
:(
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well that fucking sucked.
And it's not fair to Howard either. You think he doesn't care? I doubt that.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I think he cares a lot and I am poking at him out of frustration -
We have to have a national, comprehensive strategy and we have to have it now. He has done all the right things to get a solid start - by having Brazile submit the report about Ohio, Election 2004 and the DNC passing a sweeping resolution that is summarized by MaineDem above.

Now we need *immediate* action - laws take many, many months to pass - we are late already.

This is so, so important. The best candidates, the best messages, the best campaigns, the best GOTV work - none of it will pay off if the vote counting is not free and fair.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yeah, but did we have to get caught in the crossfire?
Couldn't you just send Howard a letter or something?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I have sent Howard letters and I have posted about this
idea "50-State Strategy" to pro-actively combat election fraud and I was just fantasizing about how great it would be - how utterly fantastic it would be to read an announcement like this for real - and I got carried away...

By the way, I really liked your post about how we ought to all be more open to posts from people about their favorite 'dude' or 'dudette.' I will keep it in mind...

:kick:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Give 'im hell, IndyOp! He wants to lead the Democratic Party? Let him
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 08:57 PM by Peace Patriot
lead us BACK to transparent, verifiable elections, BACK to when our votes were counted, BACK before the $4 billion Bush "pod people" Congress HAVA boondoggle corrupted nearly every election official in the country and destroyed our election system.

Let him lead us BACK to democracy and majority rule. Because that's not where we are now. We don't HAVE a democracy right now. We have a FORMER democracy. And we have only a narrowing window of opportunity to RESTORE our right to vote, against very big odds, before outright fascism comes down upon our heads.

Half-measures are not good enough. We need a full court press on election reform. Nothing else matters, or will matter, in November 2006, except HOW THE VOTES ARE BEING COUNTED and WHO is counting them.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. Have you SENT this to Dean and the DNC???
Via email and snail mail and if not WHY not? Maybe they need some inspiration....
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. Yes! I've written, and attached comments when I
give donations, and spoken in public at the local library, and on campus, and at my City Council - we need a breakthrough. I think Dean can do it.

You could write Dean, too!

:hi:
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. #1 - we don't need ANY machines to vote
It's the machines, electronic and mechanical, that make vote rigging possible. Eliminate the machine, provide for public inspection of the vote counting and you eliminate vote rigging entirely. Simple as that.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes, okay -
This is John Bonifaz' "Voters' Bill of Rights" and I am guessing that he is being a realist - Amurkans like their technology and probably won't give it up, but we should hand count ballots to make sure the machines are working right.

I think John (and certainly I) would be just *fine* with with paper ballots, hand counted.

The big issue for me - at the moment - is that we need Dean to lead the charge.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. Agreed. We can't do it for '06 without Dean and the DNC leading a hot
and well-funded campaign to RESTORE election integrity. And now is the time to strike! Diebold is on the ropes. ES&S is being questioned in Florida. A CA state Dem is running for Sec of State on a no-secret programming code platform. Russ Holt has HR 550 in the House (that would do it--if the Dems could, for godssakes, use Bushite disarray to get it through; it's effective in '06). The movement is MOVING, but it needs coordination, funding and Dem leadership.

And if Dean DOESN'T do this, we will be in a very bad spot, indeed--when only a few seats change hands in '06, and Bush hangs on to his phony majorities (which I'm sure is the plan--to be called a "comeback victory for Bush"; Rove is already writing the copy, when he isn't telling big ones to Patrick Fitzgerald).

If Dean and the DNC DON'T do it, THEN what we will have, hopefully, is a whole lot of evidence, from closely monitored elections in '06, and maybe some successful challenges and rulings, to use as amunition with local/state election officials, in the long slog toward local/state reform. But that's all we will have. We will likely have an energized Bushite Congress--energized by their fraudulent election victories--that may well try to blockade election reform at the state/local level.

Bush is COMMITTING FELONIES, OPENLY, bragging about it, and set on CONTINUING TO BREAK THE LAW on FISA warrants. He KNOWS something. He and Cheney KNOW something. They know it's good and rigged, and THERE WILL BE NO CONSEQUENCES.

The only way to change that is ELECTION REFORM. NOW. THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. And the only entity that can bring that off in time is the DNC.

------------------

The CA Dem SoS candidate is Deborah Bowen.

Sign Russ Holt's petition at: http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html

See Bob Koehler's article about the recent Ohio election reform initiatives, predicted to win by 60/40, but flipped over into 60/40 LOSSES on election day--the worst flipped vote yet:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

For a project for statistical monitoring and challenges of elections in '06 and '08:
www.UScountvotes.org

More info: www.votersunite.org, www.verifiedvoting.org
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. Isn't it nice to have just one person to blame for it all?
Then you don't have to bear any of the responsibility. Expect them to change it all, fix the war while not speaking out about it...fix the poor and the needy without offending our Democrats who voted for tax breaks.

Just turn to one person to fix it all....and you can just kick back and write posts about it.

This is what I was talking about in a post I made yesterday about putting so much expectation that it can't be met...

I don't write parody or satire posts, because I am not very good at it.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I guess that's what happens when you're the boss
The buck stops there, fair or not.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Wouldn't it be nice if the "boss" even had a vote.
I started to post in your thread about understanding each other about fellow Democrats, but it is just as well I didn't.

Wouldn't it be nice if he really did have any power at all? To change things?

I was going to post something nice, but just as well.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. What's the matter?
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 09:18 PM by LittleClarkie
I didn't mean anything at all by my post, except that sometimes it's tough at the top. People make these kinds of unrealistic demands as if the guy at the top were God or something. In some ways, I reckon it goes with the territory. Not fair, but there you have it. Sometimes it sucks being the guy at the top.

That's all I was saying. What did you think I meant?

If you will look up the thread, I also posted a comment saying that this thread is not fair to Howard.

I still support Howard and our Dems, and will continue to sew unity where I can, regardless of whether you decide to "post something nice" or not.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. "What's the matter" is that it does not matter.
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 09:25 PM by madfloridian
That is what I really should say.

We can all sit here and yap, and argue, and they still have all the power anyway.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Have you checked out this tonight?
A post at MyDD? in the recommended? You think Kos goes after Kerry, read this one.

It is discouraging to me to see any of our Democrats attacked. I don't do it. Yet two from JK forum think I do, and I find it hard to avoid them.

I don't like to see it done to anyone.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. I appreciate that.
You mean this thing?:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/12/28/20108/745

Eh, you know, I'm getting kinda used to it. Some people you'll never convince. Let em go.

I don't like to see it done unfairly either. Not that I want to stifle criticism, but driveby snark and unrealistic expectations are a different matter.

People seem to assume that if they can't see what's happening, then nothing is happening.

Do they forget that Dean was a part of a demonstration of just how hackable Diebold machines are? Do they really think he's unaware? Just because he's not putting on a dog and pony show for the masses doesn't mean nothing is being done.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. ...and you can just kick back and write posts about it.
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 09:19 PM by IndyOp
If you read some of the other responses in this thread you would note that the author of the OP (me) does more than 'kick back and write posts about it.'

Also - 'turn to one person to fix it all' - no, not me. I don't expect Dr. Dean to fix the war or fix the poor. Dr. Dean's job - in my humble opinion - to get Dems elected. In that role - election reform is *the* issue. Others will disagree with me and that is okay. I don't expect him or anyone else to fix it all.

Re: fixing the war - I've marched, and organized candlelight vigils, and supported an anti-war student group, finanically supported a variety of anti-war activists including sending the Crawford Peace house money when Cindy pitched her tent on Prairie Chapel Road, and more...

Re: fixing the poor - I've written letters and called and signed petitions and donated more money this year than ever before. I am also grateful that this semester I could dedicate extra time to support one special student so she could make it through the semester and not have her financial aid pulled out from underneath her and her children when she is only 2 semesters from graduation.

Suggesting that all I do is kick back and write posts is wrong. I think that the vast majority of DUers are active on an off the computer - including you and me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. If you go to your 'inbox' you will find a listing of
DU poster names -- those who are active and those who posted and were dropped from the board.

Welcome to DU - :hi:
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Aaargh. You made me act. My "Dear Dr. Dean" letter:
Dear Dr. Dean,

WIthout a massive effort to reform our election system, the Democratic Party will cease to exist after the 2006 election. The Republicans have stolen the elections in 2000, 2002, and 2004, with a bigger and boldedr collection of dirty tricks each time. As you are reading this, Karl Rove, Grover Norquist, and the rest of them are plotting grand electoral larceny on a scale you can scarcely imagine. They will not rest until they have stolen every office in the country, from President to Dog Catcher.

Please start now with serious serious efforts to educate voters about the theft, and to expose the Republican dirty tricks. If you need documentation of how they did it, you can start by reading the GAO report. This barely scratches the surface, but it does point out that every electronic voting machine is easily hacked, and that in fact numerous votes were switched in the 2004 election. Of course, in virtually every case, the switch favored George Bush and other Republicans. This is not a coincidence.

If you don't put serious money and energy into voter education on how they have been cheated, the Democratic Party is "in its last throes" as Rumsfeld would say.

Thank you.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. God Bless You, Electropop -
May the force be with us!

:hi:
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tlm1959 Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
48. howard dean
I honestly think that HD is the worst thing for the Democratic Party. He couldn't see a swing voter if it hit him in the face. Moderates win elections. Remember Bill Clinton?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Welcome to DU tlm -
:hi:

I loves me some Howard -- :loveya:

He is the best thing that has happened to the DNC in decades IMHO.

I like Bill. Hell, I'd even vote for him in 2008. But 'moderates' in general suck. For example: Democrats in Name Only like Joe Lieberman.

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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. So you think Bush is a moderate, then?
Interesting.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Hi RKZ -
:rofl:

:hi:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
63. Well, that's perfect then
Howard's a Centrist. A Centrist who has strong opinions. We're always being told that's what folks like about ol' Dubya. So Howard should be just about right.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
49. To ask the head of our Party, Howard Dean, to lead a well-funded,
well-organized campaign to NOT have Bushite corporations counting all our votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls, does not seem to me to be a lot to ask.

What is the Democratic Party FOR anyway--if they can't accomplish no-brainer, transparent, verifiable elections NOT run by rightwing Republicans behind corporate closed doors?

Hm-m-m? What is it FOR? For play-acting or what?

----------

NOTE: An important thing to include in letters to Howard Dean on this subject is for the DNC to fund INDEPENDENT EXIT POLLS in '06. The corporate-run exit polls are not to be trusted. They DOCTORED their results in '04 to 'FIT' the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae, thus depriving the American people of major evidence of election fraud.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. I just e-mailed the link to this post to Dr. Dean...
with a plea that he PLEASE read it and respond. I'll let you know if he responds. One of the best posts I've read in a long time. Thanks.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. Ouch, that hurt
That said, kicked and recommended.

Damn it all to hell.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
56. Damn! I was ready to volunteer
This truly IS the most important issue facing us.

I will sign the petition and hopefully volunteer later when they get the message.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. Your post is long on hype and short on reality.
Your ten points are great, but how would you like it if Dean announced these 10 points and then did nothing to back it up? Not a single one of those things could be accomplished before the 2006 elections. Not one. I'm not saying that they are not good ideas -- they are -- I'm just saying that changes take time.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. What I want is effective action now --
The ten points are great - and there is time to introduce and pass new legislation at the state level. The DNC could collect bills that have been passed in a few states and have lawyers rewrite them in 'generic' form to be introduced into state houses throughout the nation. The GOP does write such 'generic' bills that Repug state reps and senators dutifully introduce and get passed into law year after year.

The points I made in the "press release" - were: "The pledge to 'count every vote' must be fulfilled by (1) educating citizens about vulnerabilities in our current voting system, (2) enacting new legislation in all 50 states, and (3) organizing citizens to participate in conducting elections in every precinct throughout the nation."

The first (educating citizens) and third (organizing citizens to participate in conducting elections) could begin tomorrow --

We haven't got time. No more patience. If we are to have any impact on making the 2006 elections as free and fair as possible, we must begin now. Education, organization, action. From the grassroots up and from the leadership down.

We need money and we need a comprehensive, national plan. Dean can raise the money to get this moving and rouse the citizens.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Any bill that would be passed by a local lege next year,
especially regarding voting equipment, would probably not take effect for 2 or 3 years down the road.

And as far as your third point, any local Democratic county party worth their salt should already be doing that. My county party regularly trains election judges and clerks.

Not saying I don't like your ten points -- I do -- I just think that even if Dean made this announcement tomorrow, you wouldn't get the results you want. :(
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. I don't know if we could get the results I want -
I do know that if we keep doing what we have been doing, we will keep getting what we have been getting (stolen elections).

(1) Education - The DNC should create a video with tons of information about election fraud/election reform that has/is occurring throughout the nation. *Most* people do *not* know the facts - the simple, basic facts of the extent of voter suppression and of the vulnerability of the equipment. Knowledge *is* power. Once the DNC has compiled a video they should send multiple copies to every Democratic Party headquarters throughout the nation with encouragement to hold 'house parties'. MoveOn.org did it for the Walmart movie - the DNC can do this for election fraud/reform.

(2) Legislation. There are already voting rights activists who are spending 24/7 pushing to enact legislation and to sue municipalities that have allowed their vote to be stolen - these folks need support. Even if the DNC can't write new legislation at this point - though, I think that they could - they can support the people who are already doing battle.

(3) As for getting people involved in the election - we need a national, comprehensive plan - Dems across the nation must be educated about what the scams they should be watching for during the run up to the election and how to react. Locals need assurances that they can call a national hotline to ask questions if they think they see fraud happening - such as purging of the voter rolls or dirty tricks regarding telling voters to vote in the wrong place/time/date. The DNC needs lawyers who have been educated in computer fraud as well as voter suppression. We must fund independent exit polls to validate election results.

Local parties need *tons* of money to educate citizens of their voting rights - and why the more people that vote the more likely it is that we can detect and combat fraud.

There is tons of work that can be done - and we have the responsibility to do what we can.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. You do not even seem realistic about things.
I could write a long post about sneaky DNC money stuff before Dean took over, but it would not matter in your world of idealism.

You could find it all out yourself by searching, anyway.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. I think that Dean and DFA are incredibly idealistic -
To make good use of your sig line: "when you trade your values for the hope of winning, you end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean 2004

Dean can have an impact on this issue and he is one of the few who can - raise funds and speak out - we need him to do what he can.

:kick:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Thing is, how do you know he isn't?
not everything is going to be on the 10 o'clock news.

He was one of the ones talking about BBV before the election, wasn't he?

What was that demonstration before the election? Wasn't that him? Or am I mixing up my reports?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I am no longer willing to live in the land of "maybe they are
doing something behind the scenes." Doesn't that suggest that I should just be passive and hopeful? That is for the birds. I want action in full view!

If you have read my posts in past, you might notice that, unlike many prior posts, this one doesn't say *anything* about the theft of the 2004 election or how they should 'come out and say it - we wuz robbed.' I focused on a positive message that the DNC could issue re: fairness and the future. Pro-Active. Dems, the Party with the Plans.

I am not being ungrateful by suggesting that we need more. We are gasping for air here - we need more.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. No it doesn't suggest that you should be passive and hopeful
Do what you can. Send off letters to Howard. Write letters to the editor. Push the issue with every last single person in Congress. Do whatever you can think of to push the issue.

Just don't assume you know what people are saying when the cameras and the reporters aren't around. That is all I'm saying.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. I am with you there - I don't assume I know what is
happening behind the scenes - I am completely open to the idea that lots of people are working behind the scenes and can't report what they are doing until the time is right. John Kerry has a history of doing just this - BCCI, Iran-Contra, and so forth. I believe it is possible.

I don't think anything they do behind the scenes over the next 10 months will be sufficient to ensure free and fair elections -- the work of educating citizens and so forth has to be done out in the open.

:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. Well, guess what, my friend.
When Dean dropped out of the race last year, he said it would do no good to run again until the party was changed. He has no illusions. He said it would take decades maybe, but at the very least a long time.

They screwed him financially just as he took over, but he is still ahead in the fundraising from previous years.

You need to do some research and stop being so demanding for instant results. First off, you have no clue what is going on. HQ is playing things pretty close to the vest right now.

If you are that impatient, and you are not realistic about where the real power lies right now....it would be better to leave and not do damage when change is being made.

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
60. Damn you. I almost went to bed happy tonight.
I cannot understand why every Democrat in America has not made election reform job one.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. We are closer than ever before --
With Dean at the helm, Brazile produced an extensive report, and the DNC passed a resolution...
We know Dean can raise the $$$
We know Dean understands the importance of getting feet on the ground
We know Dean 'knows' about election fraud

Now put it all together and what do you get: "50-State Strategy to Implement Election Reform!"

Go to bed and *dream* it -- if we can visualize it, we can make it happen!

:hug:
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. I have tried kicking that football so many times before. Last two times
Is had scored the winning touchdown before it was snatched out of thin air. They are not going to stop playing dirty, in fact, the closer we get, the harder they will fight. It is going to get real ugly.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
76. Gooooooooo Howard!!!!!!!!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
90. You did read the post thoroughly enough to realize it is a SPOOF ?!?!
:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
78. Why do you hate Howard Dean and America?
lol

:hug:

You should mail this excellent post to the good doctor. He needs to read it.


:kick:
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #78
92. Thank you sfexpat2000 -
I've hated Howard Dean since before he became Governor of Vermont. He shot my dog and pulled my mother's life support because she didn't have health insurance and couldn't pay his bill.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


I'm not posting any spoofs anytime soon around here. :eyes:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #92
118. LOL! I know! Our skin is thin from the wear.
Last stolen election, I reg'd Green, from sheer heartbreak and just prepared to support the Dem candidate, whoever you all chose. But Doug was a huge Deaniac, so we sent funds to him but also to Dennis and to John.

We WILL do better next time. We WILL have voter verified paper ballots.

:toast:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
79. Wow. I was just about to send the DNC $$ - then read this was a spoof
:9

That's too bad.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Well, be sure not to send money.
That damn Howard Dean hasn't fixed everything yet. He'd better get busy.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. The Democrats KNOW BETTER
They KNOW what needs to happen to "fix" things. And it's time for them to shit or get off the pot. I email Dean (and any other Democrat) my support every time s/he says or does something that represents the interests of working class America. But I won't send them another dime until they DO start "fixing" their platform with an actual plan.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. That's what I said....be sure not to send money.
Until they fix everything you want fixed without your support.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. They HAVE my support. But if they want my $$, they need to get a clue.
They need to stop being the timid, non-committal, social-climbing politicians they've been for too long. They need to start representing the interests of working class Americans. That's how they'll get those coveted votes.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
86. I am not in favor of 2 and 4
I like proportional representation, but I don't know how we would implement it in our state governments. All of our seats are elected by district. Gotta make room for the Christian Reconstructionist Party, somewhere, though.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. I think the specifics of what gets enacted where will
take care of themselves. If the DNC followed the GOP's lead by 'ghost writing' legislation that could be introduced in the states, not all states would introduce all of the bills (they could pick and choose) and not all states would pass all of the bills.

I think having a Christian Reconstructionist Party would be great! At least they would be out in the open and we would have a clear picture of how large/small the party is.

I read somewhere that MoveOn.org is much larger than the Moral Majority ever was (in its peak). I think there are way, way more Greens than Christian Reconstructionists and I want everyone out in the open.

Right-wing coalitions will be forged, but we could see the components. The GOP would break down into the following parties: Generational Wealth Party; New Millionaires Club; Not My Taxes Self-Absorbed Middle-Classers; Don't Touch My Gun Party; Homophobes Seeking Homophobes for Friendship and Political Gain; Racists For All Occasions; and the Christian Reconstructions/Bible is Our Constitution Party.

:bounce:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. The NY, NJ, and CA govts are introducing good air pollution laws
So I could see places like them and Vermont introducing electoral reform laws.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #93
113. Indyop, your OP is one of the BEST of the YEAR!! Fantastic and DON'T STOP
And your breakdown of the GOP "parties", one of the funniest and truest posts ever.

LOVED the spoof (I've been away and am just catching up on DU). It woke a few people up, and forced others to get their heads out of the sand.

Bravo, keep fighting - and writing.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
87. You shoudln't lie in your headline.
It seems like a cheap ploy to get votes for the greatest page.

You can find a way to make your point and get noticed without resorting to lieing in your headline.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. The whole post was a spoof -
including the title - and usually people do post here at DU hoping the post will get some attention. I don't feel all that guilty.

I've never posted a spoof before and I won't again any time soon.

I am not the person who recommended it for greatest. I hope that people who did recommend it read it all the way through before recommending it - if so, then they were endorsing the post.
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centristo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
88. well done
any call for making election day (for congress and the president) a Federal holiday?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. I think election day holiday would be part of Bonifaz'
'Voter Rights' - 2. Making voting easier.

Voting on a work day prevents workers who don't have flexible work schedules from voting. If Walmart doesn't allow lunch breaks or, in some cases, bathroom breaks - how likely is it that they will allow a worker to take off 1-2-3 hours to vote? Zip.

:hi:
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Blue Velvet Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
89. Morning "kick" of support and solidarity for IndyOp and Election Reform!
And may I also be so bold as to suggest - though this is only my first DU post - that the level of dismay felt by most of those who were disappointed when they discovered this announcement to be... um.... "fraudulent" (tee hee) is directly proportional to both the passion they feel about this issue in general as well as the hope that they were filled with (albeit briefly) when they believed such an announcement had really come from Dean and the DNC.

So even though I, too, was at first disappointed to find the "gotcha" at the end, ultimately I can only just thank Indy for continuing to generate so much hope, passion, and awareness on this issue. And even if all of the items in the faux (for now!) Voters' Bill of Rights wouldn't be immediately enactable, I think I (and it sounds like many others on this thread) would truly love to hear such a strong leader as Dean come out with such a strong statement as this!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Thank BlueVelvet -
Welcome to DU --> :hi:

I think I (and it sounds like many others on this thread) would truly love to hear such a strong leader as Dean come out with such a strong statement as this!

Yup! I am really glad that you thought my post generated HOPE - that was what it was meant to do; to raise the 'expectations' bar and to generate HOPE. :-)

If you are interested in election fraud/reform you might want to check out this thread - about Mark Crispin Miller's appearance today on the Randi Rhodes show on AAR (Mike Malloy hosting):
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=406834&mesg_id=406834>
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Blue Velvet Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. Thank You, IndyOp
For the welcome, the link and - especially - the hope!

Oh, and regarding the link: What time does the show usually air (from the posts on the linked thread it seems to be in progress already), is there a re-broadcast, and (most importantly) how can I tune in? Sorry for all the questions - I'm a bit "media challenged" I suppose...

Anyway, thanks again!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. The show won't start for a while yet -
You can stream Air America Radio from here:
<http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen>

Right now there is a re-run of an Al Franken show on.

Randi's show starts at 3 pm here (3:07).

:hi:
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Blue Velvet Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Great - I'm seeing this just in time! Thanks for the info! n/t
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
100. I hate you.
:grr:

j/k...but you had me for a second.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
101. We devoted election reformers in OH are planning to get the message out
with or without the help of the Democratic party. Less than a year to the midterms and too much silence from our party. I don't get it, but if they won't act then others will bring the issues into the spotlight. It's not about the wrong message or GOTV efforts-IT'S A CORRUPT ELECTION SYSTEM W/O ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WE MUST BE ABLE TO VERIFY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. Bob Fitrakis For Governor!
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
102. Da-aamn! I was ready to become a sustaining donor on that one!
But be careful in the future with these kinds of posts -- my heart can't take it!

Will write my support of your ideas and petition Dr. Dean to get moving.

I've already told them I can't contribute until fair elections and exposing electronic voting become priority ONE.

Sigh..............



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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. Okay!
I didn't read far enough! How about sending this to Dean.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. I sent the 'press release' part and
asked, "IS IT TRUE!?!?!"

You could send your own version - :)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
103. Most of this Dems are working on, with the exception of supporting
OTHER political party's with my money.
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
105. Count Me In Governor Dean To Volunteer
And help in any way I can! Thank God!
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
108. The Dr. has been told
I hope he sees this thread.
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. Okay, let me get this right,
If you make up a totally false story, make everyone here at D.U. get their hopes up just to realize it is all a lie, that is okay, and it gets kicked and nominated? I hate these kinds of posts!
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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. the point is
that it gets people thinking, and wishing that Dean actually said that. Then they will go out and try to make it happen.... still it did really bash my hope
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. I am sorry for dashing your hope...
Really. :(

And my hope was to get people thinking what could be...

:hi:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
110. His Name is Howard Dean!
Kick & Nominated.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. You did read it all the way through, didn't you?
Howard didn't actually say this.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
115. That's a dirty trick, raising our hopes up
for a second I thought our scared bunnys had found their balls (and ovaries).

What the hell do the Busheviks have on these people?

(besides the implicit threat that they can be Wellstoned or anthraxed at any time and no one will give a dman when only token efforts are made to "find the real killers")
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I am sorry for the dirty trick...
I was fantasizing and got carried away. Wish fulfillment can become as satisfying as results in the real world when learned helplessness sets in? :(

In any case, I am going to try to rewrite "The 50-State Plan" are post it under my name - instead of Dr. Dean's when a little time has gone by and a few people have forgotten this post --

:hide:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. That's OK. I for one, appreciated your post
Figured I'd make that clear since it seems you got flamed pretty good.
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