HEADLINE: Evangelical leaders meet to HASTEN END OF THE WORLD

Tuesday, June 27, 2006
By Louis Sahagun
Los Angeles Times

For thousands of years, prophets have predicted the end of the world. Today, various religious groups, using the latest technology, are trying to hasten it.

Their end game is to speed the promised arrival of a messiah.

For some Christians, this means laying the groundwork for Armageddon.

With that goal in mind, mega-church pastors recently met in Inglewood, Calif., to polish strategies for using global communications and aircraft to transport missionaries to fulfill the Great Commission — to make every person on Earth aware of Jesus' message.

Doing so, they believe, will bring about the end, perhaps within two decades....

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003087927_theend27.html

Did they miss some?

'Then there is Clyde Lott, a Mississippi revivalist preacher and cattle rancher. He is trying to raise a unique herd of red heifers to satisfy an obscure injunction in the Book of Numbers: the sacrifice of a blemish-free red heifer for purification rituals needed to pave the way for the messiah.'

Brother.

if he's any relation to Trent Lott. :shrug:

:rofl:

:rofl:

lands on their houses.

Must be kinda cool, actually, to see yourself as a soldier in the great battle of Good Vs. Evil.

Pity that's a load of crap.

"Hey, when Christ returns at the end of Armageddon, he is going to destroy all evil with one word. So why does he need an army behind him as backup? Spectators maybe? I hope not! I personally want to be in his army and charge those evil you know whats! It is going to be the end of all evil, im sure it has to be dramatic as the charge of Rohan in Lord of the Rings: return of the King. sounds fun to me!!! how bout you guys?"

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=141658

:crazy:

and about 10 percent true believers. I mean, it's the only possible explanation for some of the things that get posted there.

You are awakened at night by a noise and the first thought you have is "It's the Rapture!". You lie there with your eyes open, fervently hoping that it is true. Eventually you drift off to sleep (but not before whispering a prayer of love to the soon-returning Jesus).

You read all the books by Hal Lindsey, Josh McDowell, LaHaye and others. You even write your own novel (The Serpent's Last Strike) which goes unpublished.

You tell everyone you know all about the trials of the upcoming Great Tribulation. You watch the news and with every report of another earthquake or other natural disaster you think it's another sign.

You love Israel (but not necessarily the Jews who, after all, rejected Jesus) and watch for signs of a peace treaty. You watch all the turmoil in the Middle East and you know that it is more "Signs of the End Times."

And finally you do what you can do to make it happen in your lifetime. Push, shove, and wait for the last sign to fall into place. We're so close...just another little war may trigger Armageddon and Jesus' return.

That was me. A hardcore Fundamentalist who believed totally and thoroughly in the Rapture/Tribulation/End Times meme.

What is scary is that I know that people are hoping that Bush starts Armageddon just so they can get Raptured out of here and watch the world burn up.

Now that I'm a hardcore atheist, I'm really, really worried. If I didn't know how these people think and live I could live in ignorant bliss.

:toast:

No offense, but I honestly didn't know that people like you --or rather people like the former you -- really existed, outside of a few Branch-Davidian-type crazies.

It sounds like now you should write a book. Given your past and your present views, I imagine you'd have some interesting stuff to say.

Mind telling me what changed your mind and brought you from one extreme to the other?

:)

Actually my story is much more common that you may think. When I was in seminary (Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary - the world's largest) there were about 4,500 students. Most of them did not graduate. I don't believe the numbers are publicly published in any form, but apparently a great number of students enter the seminary and then quietly leave. Some leave because the coursework is too difficult, others because they refuse to believe what the professors teach and others because the first taste of real knowledge awakens them to the truth.

I took the "harder" degree plan (in quotes because who really decides something is hard?) that required two years of Greek and one year of Hebrew. Final exams involved translating texts from Hebrew or Greek into English. Anyone who has done this can tell you that it is very eye-opening; you start to realize that a lot of what's in the Bible is there because of a choice someone had to make. And with over 30,000 variants between all the manuscripts you have to spend a bit of time determining what YOU think is the "original" text. (The best manuscripts we have are copies of copies of copies of copies hundreds of years from the time of the purported events.) Needless to say, anytime spent doing textual criticism is time your mind is going "WTF?"

I graduated and started work as a Singles Pastor in a "contemporary" church. The pastor promised a salary and other goodies. After two years of receiving exactly $0.00 and doing a lot of continued studies, I realized that my faith was completely gone. The more I examined the so-called evidence, the more I realized that the whole thing was a man-made charade. (And my major in seminary was in a field called "apologetics" or the defense of the faith. I was trained to defend the faith with very elaborate arguments, so I thoroughly know what's what.)

There's no simple way of explaining all the thought that went into my decision to become rational; I had invested 12 years of my life in a very intense pursuit of what I had been told was the truth. But I'll leave you with an illustration of what I see is wrong.

If you've ever met a fan of Elvis Presley, you know what devotion looks like. When I lived in Memphis the fans would crowd Graceland every year. They would actually weep at the wall outside, hence its moniker "The Wailing Wall."

Did they know the lyrics to any of Elvis' songs? Hell yes.

Remember that point.

Now we have the story of Paul in the bible, a man who was very devoted to Jesus, so devoted that he completely changed his life just because of a vision of Jesus (he never met the man). Paul is considered a lion of faith, a name right up there with the greatest apostle who ever lived. He was so devoted that he started churches all across the Mediterranean and wrote a bunch of letters (known as "epistles") that are printed right in the New Testament.

He defended the faith, defended Jesus and said a lot of stuff to back up his beliefs.

But not once did he ever quote from Jesus. Even when defending the fact that Jesus was raised from the dead, Paul never said "Hey, go look at the place yourself. It's still there. The people who lived around there (Golgotha) are still there. Talk to them. There's plenty of evidence. And guess what? He came back and said this....."

Nope. This most devoted of fans doesn't quote Jesus and never points to the evidence the Gospels speak of. Just like he had a completely different person in mind.

That's just one of many things that can make a person go, "Hmmmmm."

about these cults. :hug:

What made you re-evaluate your beliefs?

Welcome to the Land of Enlightenment! I, too, was a hardcore, charismatic, fundamentalist evangelical Christian. Now I ask questions like:

If God and his Holy Angels are so powerful, how come they are so technologically disadvantaged as to only possess weapons from the Bronze Age (swords)? Are humans and humanists smarter than God and the Arc-angels? Our weapons are certainly better than theirs. (I'm using the word "better" loosely; I am rather a pacifist and don't really approve of spending a lot of funds/energy to develop weaponry to blow up other living beings.)

If the Angels and Demons are immortal, why do they keep having sword-fights and wars with each other? Why are they so short-sighted that the "ultimate" solution is a big war called Armageddon? Don't they have any diplomats in heaven? The humanist ideal would be to AVOID war with diplomacy! So, are the humans who win Nobel peace prizes actually MORE peaceful in nature than God and his Angels? It seems that they're really very REACTIONARY up there in "heaven", huh?

How come John's book is called "the Book of Revelations"? I mean "Revelations" is based on the root word "to reveal" right? That is the most vague, illusory book I've ever read. Ten horns, feet of a Lion, the anti-Christ, head injuries, the whore of Babylon, four horsemen of the Apocalyse... Tens of thousands of interpretations later, and nobody even agrees on what countries are supposed to be involved. Face it! John was on some major 'shrooms, and there's a whole industry based on the ridiculous and blasphemous idea of the Rapture -- which is the Scam of the Milleniums that bilks these idol-worshipping, gullible, cultist suckers out of their money.

Etc, etc. I could go on all night.

I used to "specialize" in studying the so-called cults. I had hoped to work toward my PhD in comparative religion, but the conservative seminary I attended didn't have any such thing.

In researching a paper I attended a LDS church in the area. I was blown away. I had to pay close attention to discover the differences between the service I attended and any other Protestant service.

Now I realize that I was just as involved with a "cult" as I believed the LDS were. We were way more subtle though. Our "brainwashing" was not hidden, but right up front: Spend all your waking days meditating on a certain scriptural passage or in prayer and your mind is not yours.

When I look back I do so in utter amazement. I grew up wanting to be a nuclear physicist and always loved science. But for 12 years I just shut off my mind, rewired my logic and blocked out rational thought, all in "subjecting your mind" to the will of Jesus.

After your experience do you find it hard to believe that all the people you left behind are still going, still believing? After escaping the "cult", I wonder why others haven't woken up and left. Probably because they stopped looking for truth years ago and have settled for a cleverly crafted tale rather than the crude reality that faces them.

You are basically absolved of everything... the devil makes you do things and you can lay all your "mistakes" at the foot of Jesus... no responsibility... no original thought... pretty stinkin' lazy imho.

I had these discussions with the elders of the church... very close to the end of my time there... and I told them I thought I should be one of those who skip the Rapture and hang out on Earth to help others. (Very Promethean of me.) They thought I was crazy... I thought they were crazy... we soon parted ways.

...thanks to the Internet.

:toast:

:scared:

Has Obama lost his mind?

Hopefully, the Rapture will come a week before the next elections, and they'll all be otherwise occupied elsewhere, and we can get on with real life.

TC

lets just fill the party with the "left behind" crowd!!!!! YAY!! (fucking dumbasses :eyes)

THIS will be heaven with out them!

I'll be the one organizing the Mardi Gras ten minutes after the Rapture. Trust me!

TC

middle east--I guarantee you these particular types are rubbing their hands together in GLEE over what's happening w/Israel today. They think the war on Iraq is part of this coming Armageddon, and that's why they'll support an attack on Iran, Syria, and other ME countries as well.

Scary people.

They seem reasonable enough.

:spray:

Yeah, really I just appreciate any excuse to say that....

i just read "illuminatus" again

and most people don't have a fucking clue what I'm talking about.

I mean, obviously a young child that cannot understand any language yet cannot be offered "The Gospel"

So do they have a plan to stop new childbirths long enough to preach to the very last soul?

Wonder what that may involve...

:eyes:

just about to give birth as the "rapture" occurs. what happens to her and the baby?

albeit a "final" one

from the article:

In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a far different vision. Defiantly pursuing a nuclear option, he has suggested the elimination of Israel would herald the return of a ninth-century Muslim cleric known as the Mahdi, the 12th Imam. He hopes to welcome that messiah to Tehran within two years.

Conversely, some Jewish groups in Jerusalem hope to clear the path for their own messiah by rebuilding a temple on a site occupied by one of Islam's holiest shrines.

Artisans have re-created priestly robes of white linen, gem-studded breastplates, silver trumpets and solid-gold menorahs to be used in the Holy Temple — along with two 6 ½-ton marble cornerstones for the building's foundation.

:scared:

opened... right after deer season would be fine... If these psychotic brainwashed idiots want to die so bad, why not help them "go home to the Lord"?

...and end up trying to make it happen when it doesn't on its own? Why are so many people trying to treat these cultists like normal sane humans? Is everyone fucking crazy now?

that there is a single person on this planet who has not been made aware of Jesus' message.

:hi:

:hi:

Been thinking about you lately. I hope all is well.

There was one righteous person, who has ascended. The rest of you - well, you are stuck here with the Godless Heathens (TM) for the Tribulations.

Sorry 'bout that.

--God

You really have to watch him to understand. He has a show broadcast daily on one of the religious channels on DirecTV and in most areas on Sunday morning. He and the likes of the D. James Kennedy's of the world are CONVINCED that this country was founded by and for xtians like them and ONLY them. Kennedy's weekly broadcast usually consists of 25 - 35 minutes of him sermonizing on a subject like the Ten Commandments and how it should be in every courthouse (Kennedy is one of Judge Roy Moore's biggest supporters. The middle of the night installation of "Roys Rock" was exclusively filmed by members of Kennedy's organization) to how "Separation of Church and State" is a concept to be rejected by all right thinking xtians.

"Evolution is a A LIE!" - Hagee during one of his sermons a couple years back. His catch phrase is "Give him praise and glory" which he uses at the end of a running monologue about one point or another. He pronounces it with a bit of a Texas twang to sound like "give him praze and glor-ray!" He is a huckster and one hell of a salesman. The article says he has a 19,000 member church. This "church" is really an auditorium where he stands on the stage and tells his flock how horrible gays are, how bad abortion is, how the nasty Atheists and secular humanists are trying to ruin it for all of them, etc. etc.

These guys scare the shit out of me because they have SO many followers. So many otherwise rational, thinking people actually buy this line of bullshit it is downright scary.


On edit to add that Mr. Hagee carries on about sin regularly but seems to ignore the one about gluttony. He AND his son (who preaches regularly at his dads used car lot...er...theater...er...church both look like they havent missed a meal in a VERY long time.

at their disposal. In the 50s it was airliners. In the 90s it was the internet.

This is nothing new. And the end of the world is a myth. Unless some of these guys wind up with their fingers on The Button, this is just sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I'm sorry but I can't take this shit seriously.

They're so miserable on earth...an earth they believe their God created for them...that they want to end life...that they think is so precious...so they can get to heaven. Quicker...

ROFLMAO

The world would be much more peaceful and less strident without the constant presence of meddling Christofascists. These people can't leave the Earth soon enough for me.

J

the miami 7 are terrorists for wanting to blow up the sears tower. these lunatics want all civilization to end.

;)

Where would we be without them, Bluebear?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Just imagine what life would be like without those holier-than-thou, ill tempered, uneducated hypocrites who want to smite homosexuals, non-christians and other assorted liberal types from the earth?

this world will be better off without them

Here's hooping these bastards live 21 more years. Just to see they got it wrong.


Again.



I know they'll do anything but admit it, but the tapdancing alone should be worth the price of admission to that show ;)


Howaya Blue? :hi: :pals:

to bring about the prophecies of armageddeon--such as, oh, I dunno, starting wars and fomenting instability in the middle east ...

Where does this 2,000 years come from? I've just done a quick search in an online Bible, and couldn't find anything about 2,000 years. I found "Satan bound for 1,000 years". So how does the Seattle Times state this time as a basic part of Christian belief (as opposed to something the current group of con-men have made up to get their marks thinking it's all going to happen in their time)?

Seriously, though, how does this not violate the commandment to not have any other gods before G-d? This sounds like they're trying to make their time-table into G-d's timetable. The Second Coming will happen whenever it happens, and the signs given in the Bible are deliberately vague. Even our Christ said that it would come like a thief in the night with no warning and that He didn't know the time, only G-d does.

These people need to get down on their knees and pray hard for mercy. I can't believe the kind of arrogance it takes to believe that any human can change G-d's time for the Second Coming. Even if all the signs came about, that doesn't mean that the Second Coming would happen--we're not in charge of it.

& i feel fiiiiiiiiinnnee!"

Sorry. I feel the need to mention that song every time someone mentions something about the end of the world. I'm just goofy like that

Anyways, i think it's really funny how some fundies say the world's gonna end in 2012, but the number 2012 came from the Mayan pagan calender. rofl.