Impeachment Doesn't Exist So That It Could Make You Feel Good Politically

Characterizing it in such a way undermines our constitution and is a slap in the face to our founding fathers. It doesn't exist so that you can get rid of politicians you don't like or choose not to use because you don't like the line of succession. Impeachment in its whole exists to protect America from leaders that break the law and damage the very fabric that makes this country great. That is the only reason it exists. Using it or choosing not to use it merely on the concept of political gain is irresponsible, foolish and undermines its entire purpose.

If Bush or anyone else breaks the law or acts in other ways that warrants impeachment than the impeachment process should move forward. I don't give a fuck who the VP is at the time, as it is completely irrelevant to the impeachment concept. If the VP is corrupt as well than next you impeach his ass too.

If there are sufficient grounds for impeachment than the process should go forward. It isn't a matter of opinion for self opinionated political gain.

Yes, I realize this is an idealistic view and that the right have completely undermined the process before. Well Fuck them, that's their problem as we are better than that.

Thanks.

yeah, like they did THAT on principle!

:sarcasm:

I knew that would be the first thought in some peoples head (it crossed mine too) so I tried to acknowledge it :)

:hi:

And quite right to boot!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

However, everything is political in DC.

and urged him to support Conyers and start impeachment proceedings. This snowball is gathering momentum.

Impeachment was made to be used as a political tool.

Sorry.

I couldn't think of a better time as now.

Mark my words, if Bush is impeached, he will become more popular then ever. It's a bullshit cause, and it will be impossible to actually get the Senate to impeach him, even if it can be shown that he did break the law. Remember, only 14 Republican Seats are up for election in 2006. Not enough to create a super majority.

Than just what dear friend would it take to not be bullshit?

And I will mark your words.

There is good that can be done. Impeachment can not.

Nothing I respect less than weakness.

Sorry bub, but your negative can't can't can't wah wah wah attitude means little to me in the way of what needs to be done. :hi:

You can keep the tin foil it came wrapped in. A present from me to you.

Your first sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

To respond to the OP terming impeachment as a "bullshit cause" shows that you missed the point entirely. How is protecting the Constitution bullshit? How is upholding the rule of law, maintaining that we have a president and not a king bullshit? How is stopping the reign of complete lawlessness robbing our treasury and invading sovereign countries based on bullshit lies a "bullshit cause"? Just because something is challenging doesn't mean it is impossible or meaningless.

I suggest that you re-read the Constitution. I'd specifically review the 4th ammendment and anything related to impeachment. You'd see that Bush clearly broke the law, dishonored his oath of office to defend the constitution. More importantly you'd also re-learn that it is the House of Representatives that Impeaches a president. The Senate is the body that convicts. I refuse to be so cynical to believe that when there is such a clear crime that even the party in power would refuse to do what is right for the country. Am I naive? I don't think so because that is exactly what happened when Nixon violated the Constitution using the NSA like * has and he resigned after pressure from those in his own party.

I question your motives to take the time to be a naysayer. If you don't believe in positive change why even bother to make an attempt to be informed?

It's bullshit because Bush cannot be impeached. There are not enough numbers to do it, and the crime is too ambiguous. If you think the Repubs won't buy the party line about the wiretaps and the justification, you're not paying attention.

All of those noble causes that you mentioned, no, they are not bullshit. Impeaching a president that the Senate will never convict(sorry for not using the word convict-I think you understood the role of the Senate in impeachment proceedings) is a WASTE OF TIME!!!!! And resources. And Media. And when he gets off, it vindicates him, and washes away any momentum the Dems can build up for the next election cycle.

Those that want to impeach are playing a new political game. It's devoid of philosophy, it's about '
getting the other guy. Yes, I'd love to get Bush. But Impeachment won

If for no other reason than to wash their own hands of their complicity in the crimes. Hell, disclosing the name of a CIA agent in a time of war is a capital crime in and of itself. If anyone else had done it they would already be dead. This is not the same as getting a hummer. That's not even a crime, nor should it be.

<edit> And yes, impeachment was designed to be a political exercise. This is a good thing since we cannot trust the courts. In 2000 they decided it was unconstitutional to count legally cast ballots. These people must be stopped.

Heads on pikes!!!

He was not convicted because it is impossible to convict a popular President. Bush is not that popular & has not been for awhile.

I think Bush should be impeached, but because it's political, he won't be.

Clinton got a blowjob. Bush is shitting on the Constitution and on congress. It can totally be shown that Bush broke the law. You can put your finger on the part of the law that he admitted to breaking on national radio and television. (Title 50, Chapter 36, Section 1809a of the United States Code which makes it illegal to wiretap except under the auspices of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Then he said that he didn't care, and he'd keep doing it.

Impeach the arrogant son-of-a-bitch.

Clinton's impeachment was political.
The Impeachment of Bu$h if and when it happens will be for criminal behavior against the Constitution.

All this 'never going to happen' defeatist bullshit is just that...bullshit.

The constitution isn't partisan. Our congressmembers were sworn to uphold the constitution, not the illegal activities of their party.

We need to re-educate congress on the fact that we employ them, and if they don't do their jobs, we are going to throw their asses out with W.

Impeachment March on State of the Union Jan 31
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5701703

isn't partisan. :applause:

I especially like the idea that the impeachment process should go forward if the President's actions warrants impeachment regardless of political considerations. I do not think that Veep Crashcart will be the one to become President if ChimpCo is impeached and removed. It is almost certain that Crashcart is neck deep in these impeachable offenses. Any Congress which pursues this course is almost certainly going to be finding that Crashcart has been heavily involved. If ChimpCo goes down, Crashcart is going down, too. John Dean agrees with me on this.

One more point, although impeachment shouldn't be pursued for political feel-good purposes, it shouldn't prevent people from feeling good politically about impeachment of this administration. It's not schadenfreude to feel good about bringing criminals to justice.

attempting to dampen enthusiasm for Impeachment. Has some Memo gone out?

I look at it as a direct response to those who are saying impeachment would be a disaster. The OP here points out that we need to do what is right not what is politically advantageous.

This thread is encouraging the process, not dampening it. :)

Point taken and chastisement deserved.

I like when one can admit they erred in such a respectful manner. I have chosen to show that respect by softening up my above reply :)

i was happy to see this thread finally and was about to begin one myself...so thanks op...

me thinks we do have trolls here starting threads to slow down the retoric for impeachment...

there has never been a more worthy candidate for impeachment than *..and we must stop the naysaysers art every juncture to slowing down the debate...with threads such as this.,..

its the deflect game once again..byt the trolls who would forever have this murdering law breaker in our White House...

we need to rachet up the "I" word ...and go after these sob's who have taken our nation in an evil path...
after all that is what our constitution demands...

how can we tell anyone in the world how wonderful democracy is when we keep shitting on our own..and destoying its very fiber...and the very values so many have put the uniform on and fought for ..when we sit back and do nothing about the very laws our values have been raised on...

impeachment of this cabal has never been more needed nor more warranted...

fly

He's the one endangering our country; not just this thing of "spying" without warrants. He has habitually lied about just about everything. It seems to me there are more than sufficient grounds for impeachment. :spank: :thumbsdown:

year.

I can't think of a President that has ever been more deserving or acted in such a way in line with what our founding fathers had in mind to put the Impeachment process in there to begin with.

Go forth with impeachment because it is right, even if it screws us politically by saddling us with Cheney, or if we lose and GWB falls into a sewer and comes out a rose.

Well, that's scary as hell. But I agree with you.

That's the tough part about integrity and what is right. Sometimes it can be mighty scary. Course, that what makes honor and integrity the bravest of ideals in my opinion :)

is there any way the Dems in Congress now are going to see it this way? They are, after all, the most poltical of politicians! For example, Hillary. Can you see her throwing herself into impeachment proceedings?

valuable resource to the House since she was involved in the Nixon proceedings. My guess is she is actively involved in discussions behind the scenes.

As far as the house, I have no idea. I would hope when they get back from break that they all would start the rallying cry. Guess it remains to be seen who will take the lead and how (though Conyers has a pretty good start)

Lying under oath is.

Lying under oath is either a civil offense of crime, depending on the particulars of the situation. However, it doesn't necessarily meet the founding father's idea of what should be an impeachable offense.

Impeaching Clinton for lying under oath clearly was a ridiculous overreach of "high crimes and misdemeanors" if there ever has been one.

Bush's lying to start his illegal war of aggession in Iraq was much worse for the country and violates his oath to uphold the constitution for too many reasons to list here.

He clearly lied to Congress in his State of the Union address, which is a crime.

No matter how he spins it the spying on Americans without warrants is a crime. Plamegate is a crime and Bush is involved - the catch is proving it.

Frankly, there is so much conflict of interest in this administrations dealings with energy policy, there are probably enough genuine crimes there to bring it down, if they are ever investigated.

Lying versus lying under oath is legal quibbling when discussing this administration.

And ordering wiretaps of Americans without a warrant definitely is an illegal and impeachable offense.

Gee if only there were maybe 16 words we can think of.... hmmmm ;-)

If the STat of the Union message was testimony all Presidents could be impeached for lying to Congress.

Now if he lied under oath to Fitx.. that is an entirely different matter. There is precendent for lying to a Special prosecutor,

But I have not seen any evidence of that Yet

lying to congress during the SOTU speech is a crime in and of itself. Not perjury under oath but something else as opposed to what you are saying.

here's a link to his article:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030718.html

Here's the relevant section:

"It Is A Crime To Make False Statements To Congress

Could Bush, and his aides, be stonewalling because it is a crime to give false information to Congress? It wasn't a crime in President Polk's day. Today, it is a felony under the false statements statute.

Two members of the Bush administration, Admiral John Poindexter and Elliot Abrams, learned about this false statements law the hard way, during the Iran Contra investigation. Abrams pled guilty to two misdemeanors for false statements to Congress, as did Robert McFarlane. (Both were subsequently pardoned by President George H.W. Bush.) Poindexter and Oliver North fought the charges, and won on an unrelated legal technicality.

Later, one of McFarlane's lawyers, Peter W. Morgan, wrote a law journal article about using the false statements statute to prosecute executive officials appearing before Congress. Morgan was troubled by the breadth of the law. It does not require a specific intent to deceive the Congress. It does not require that statements be written, or that they be sworn. Congress is aware of the law's breadth and has chosen not to change it.

Maybe presciently, Morgan noted that the false statements statute even reaches "misrepresentations in a president's state of the union address." To which I would add, a criminal conspiracy to mislead Congress, which involved others at the Bush White House, could also be prosecuted under a separate statute, which makes it a felony to conspire to defraud the government."

I am so sick of the defeatists and naysayers on this board. We should almost create a separate forum for them just to have their "What's the use?" threads organized and isolated.

America is lost if we don't correct what has happened. Impeachment and whatever other legal remedies there are must be pursued because they are the only thing left standing between the rule of law and total tyranny of the executive branch. It remains to be seen if the fight will be successful (despite the omnipotence of the naysayers) but it is the only option we have. This isn't just politics anymore. It is not the normal game with the normal rules. This is a new day and political strategy, actions based on polls have to be discarded. We must turn to the Constitution and fight based on laws.

I wonder why some here who are allegedly anti the * administration are so threatened by just the visualization of impeachment so much that they take the time to tell people not to even consider it.

He has a duty, being sworn in as President, to, from time to time inform the Congress as to the State of the Union. He took the oath to do just that.

Truth be told if the standard isspeaking untruths before COngress during the SOTU every President would be run out of office on a rail.

Impeachment is meant to be a political process. Much hay was recently made about another President violating his oath. Here's the relevant text:

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

So, it is true, and fair, to say that when he shared disinformation with the Congress, he violated his oath. To me, its not just a speech he was giving, he was performing a duty assigned to him by the people. If he didn't want that duty, he shouldn't have taken the oath.

He has another Address coming soon. I wish we could make folks understand how important this is to the country, and that the President is required to do this. It is a duty. Not a choice.

IMPEACH THE CRIMINAL!

Good Politically". We find fun wherever we can. If the purpose is serious, there can be no greater plus.

when it happens. I'm not sure I would've ever had a better reason to gloat in my life.

That's not really what I meant though. The line was referencing those that don't feel good about impeaching him merely because they don't like his line of succession. But please, I implore you, celebrate to your hearts content when if it happens :)

Impeachment should never be about politics. IT HAS TO BE about the SUpremacy of the Consittution.

way to even get a REAL investigation started is to remove half the congress from office. The Republicans are stalling, excusing, resisting, covering-up, etcetera, etcetera.

If you can't get an investigation you can't get much of anything else either.

IMO, an investigation would likely reveal the involvement of half the administration, so any fears I might have that Cheney would end up in control are negligible. I only wonder just exactly WHO would end up in charge with administration members dropping like flies over acts of treason.
While I realize that should be the least of my concerns, I still have to think Constitutional Crisis when it comes to impeachment and prosecution here. The succession of power doesn't look to promising with regard to those NOT involved in the commission of crimes. :crazy:

The line of succession of Republican governments has been illegitimate for many decades, a suppression of the most elementary democracy - all for personal gain and aggrandisement at whatever cost. What makes you think Democrat posters here would feel the need for such vile criminal behaviour, if they had black neocon hearts? I would have thought only Republicans would think like that, judging others by such low standards.

The people here want justice. If the Republicans would provide it better than the Democrats, they'd vote Republican.

whether you should be nominated for the Noble Peace Prize. Maybe for literature, too.

Wit and grace in posting.

:hi:

:patriot:

K&R :yourock:

See this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5702672&mesg_id=5702672

And you are right it's their problem. Anyone who's read all the comments from the neo's when they tried to impeached Clinton should know and understand that Bush should be impeached for breaking the law. They neo's set the standard when they claimed that the "rule of law" must be obeyed by the president even if it's over a private matter that should have been between the President and his wife. Bush broke the law. There is no question about that. They can call it a National Security issue, they can call it a safety issue, they can spin it anyway they want. The fact is that they set these "rule of law" standards and now they should have to abide by them.

Let's be one dimensional as the poster suggests and just call a crook a crook. We've got the evidence, they know we have it. It's now an ethical imperative and an act of political will.

Too bad if they don't like it. Let's have a real debate and if not, just shower the public with various charges and spend the rest of the time supporting those charges.

Great post. RECOMMENDED.

There are more than sufficient grounds for impeachment. They have lied, tortured, murdered, and spent this country into the ground. I feel terrorized by their actions. My grown children are depressed by the state of the UNION. I am ashamed of our government. I have been completely appalled by the * agenda since I first read about him as a Texas Governor. Spying on our fellow citizens and sending people off to foreign countries to be tortured is ILLEGAL. WABI SABI (simple)


How many people do we have to bomb to death or slay to install democracy. What a FARCE. We are so far from "who and what, I thought, we as a people are that I scarcely remember the way we were.


My Grandchildren have walked in protests with me. Nothing changes, it gets worse. We have written countless letters to officials in every state. Nothing changes, it gets worse. We have donated money to progressive liberal campaigns. Nothing changes, it gets worse. We have stood in vigils and lit candles. Nothing changes, it gets worse.

I am afraid for my children and grandchildren. These fascist warmongers have raised their ugly heads from hell and seem like they are trying to stir up some sort of Armageddon. They are not only criminal, they are INSANE. Add inhumane to that any you have EVIL. Their inaction in the Gulf Coast is second to none in the horror they continue to present.

IMPEACH Them. It is our right and our duty!

In fact I'll heave a huge sigh of relief when Bush and then Cheney are booted out of the Whitehouse.

Don't conflate relief at the outcome with the raison d'être.

You said:
"Impeachment in its whole exists to protect America from leaders that break the law and damage the very fabric that makes this country great."

The way these bozos are working things if you only impeach them one at a time, one of them will change the law through the miracle of mandates performed during time of war to give the acting pRes any damm power he wants.

You said:
"Impeachment in its whole exists to protect America from leaders that break the law and damage the very fabric that makes this country great."

The way these bozos are working things if you only impeach them one at a time, one of them will change the law through the miracle of mandates performed during time of war to give the acting pRes any damm power he wants.

You said:
"Impeachment in its whole exists to protect America from leaders that break the law and damage the very fabric that makes this country great."

The way these bozos are working things if you only impeach them one at a time, one of them will change the law through the miracle of mandates performed during time of war to give the acting pRes any damm power he wants.

to invent it.

That I'd say I would agree with you, then I'd grab the popcorn, grab a comfy chair and wait for the fun to begin.