CBS Producer has New Documents related to Bush AWOL

"I actually was completely sure about the documents..." "We had lots and lots of evidence that the content was absolutely accurate, we had coroberation, we vetted it, and we meshed it with the initial documents or the official documents that the Bush people had put out for the past four years or so."

"The other thing that we had in that report that people don't mention is the first ever interview with former Lt. governor Ben Barnes, who talked about helping Bush get into the guard by making a phone call." "It was the documents that proved vulnerable to attack."

"I did through a researcher get a number of new documents that absolutly blow out of the water the kinds of charges that Howard and others used to attack these documents in the first place." "I now have a document here, from 1969 from the TX Air National Guard in Austin that has porportional spacing, I also have lots of documentary evidence that this existed..."
Video: http://thepoliticalteen.com/video/mapessr.wmv

Truth and Duty : The Press, the President, and the Privilege of Power (Hardcover)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/031235195X.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031235195X/qid=1135737295/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3142199-6957719?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Dan Rather got badly treated, speaker of truth kill by dark force. America bushit culture rear its ugly head.

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Wolfie and Howie fuckwad Kurtz tried to gang up on her, and she nailed them bigtime!
Go Mary Go!!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

You purposely ignore information based on your assumption that she is only doing this for profit, therefore ignore what she says completely?! LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!:rofl:

Hell... why listen to anybody because they could all be liars too!!!!:crazy:

Like a few others in the thread, I think there is much more fertile ground in which to bury Bush.

Not one single issue will pressure a congress, at this point to do the right thing. We have to do it from every angle. The more info exposing boy George as corrupt, the better.

Perception is their weakness as well as their strength.

I think an important element is how the "debunking" was funded, and by whom. Then it becomes more damaging than the act itself, in the same vein as "the coverup is worse than the lie".
The Professor

He stated the reason why they went after CBS is because they would be the only one's who would cover the story and the Bush camp couldn't control CBS like the others.

network, where the news organization is independent from the rest of the operation.

Bush's Brain info from a great website on 'the king of dirt',
http://www.oilempire.us/karlrove.html

""Karl Rove dirty tricks that leak the true material in a way that discredits the facts.

-- the leaked Cocaine / "W" allegation (in 2000) to an author with a felony conviction (who then became the issue, not the W's use of cocaine) Rove's leaking of the truth of Bush and cocaine to convicted felon James Hatfield for his book Fortunate Son in 1999 (see the film Horns and Haloes for an excellent account of this).
http://www.sanderhicks.com/dvd.html
Horns and Haloes
a film about Jim Hatfield's book "Fortunate Son"Other dirty tricks from the Rove propaganda machine???

-- the "fake" National Guard memos that accurately described Bush going AWOL (the typography has become the issue)

-- some of the bogus 9/11 sites are almost certainly a manifestation of this very cynical strategy -- put some of the truth out there, but in a manner that is easy for folks to see throughit is shoddy and amateurish and somewhat of an embarrassment). bogus 9/11 complicity claims that distract from excellent evidence proven beyond reasonable doubt and make 9/11 skepticism appear to be kooky science fiction hallucinations
see www.oilempire.us/bogus.html
9/11 websites that make illogical claims for official complicity not based on actual evidence""

Before the Russian revolution, some of the most extreme and deadly revolutionary groups were actually led by police agents provocateur. The secret services of the 19th Century commonly used forgeries to discredit opposition groups and figures, and police agents ran leading revolutionary publications. http://www.cia.gov/csi/monograph/okhrana/5474-1.html

The Czarist Okhrana (Palace Guard) also set up phony revolutionary splinter groups, edited radical newspapers, and coordinated the activities of terrorist cells to discredit the opposition. For decades, the Czarist Okhrana masterfully cultivated international rings of bomb throwing fanatics and assassins. Bismarck did the same thing in Germany in order to maintain his iron grip over the newly-consolidated Reich, and American industrialists employed private detective agencies to carry out similar sorts of political dirty tricks.

One should not be surprised that Karl Rove is using tricks similar to those developed in the 1880.

And this is a rather large chunk. First, he lied about his military service. Then Dan Rather was swift boated and this woman lost her job. Because CBS tried to tell the truth.

Lots of ground there.

:thumbsup:

there is no such thing as the "liberal media." They all bow down to the Bush administration. And the Bush administration has never truly tried to defend Bush's so-called military records. Whenever they do release records it's blotted out and they're hiding name's and such. Moore and Alex Jones have records without the blobs and you can investigate further and connect the dots through those name's. If Bush doesn't tell the truth about his military service what else does he lie about?

Add to the pile of felonies.

give a shit.

Felonies? Surely you exaggerate.

:sarcasm:

they are going to bury this administration.

they won't take shit until elections are fixed...

..and I don't mean "fixed" like Bushco had them

Not just 'first' he lied, he 'only' lies. Go george go play.

As the mechanism that was used - the RW blogosphere - to discredit the report.

The Professor

Touted by some MSM "news" outlets as being representative of bloggers! LOL!!

it is part of a pattern... a pattern of deception and manipulation, but ignore this and other thigns you don't think matter... those of us conscious of history will not let this go into the proverbial memory hole

She lost her fucking job. I hope she makes a mint off of this book.

I've read the book, no wonder they Plamed her.

ok ok ok i'll borrow it from the library sometime, (can't buy it right now) but can ya drop a few juicy bits?

To stop drinking from a poisoned well.

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Al Franken, Joseph Wilson, Richard Clarke, John Dean, Bill Clinton and John Kerry have no credibility either? Hey, they all wrote books!

The writer has already been smeared, but not by me.
That is exactly why I'm not interested in filling my bucket:

"Forced to resign from her job, because of unprofessionalism and questionable journalistic standards and practices."

That's all folks need to be reminded of, and her otherwise true story becomes "sour grapes", "more forged documents," etc. In other words, yesterday's news. That's just how it works these days. It may sell books, and I hope it does, but it ain't gonna make history.

"Poisoned well," my friend.

...and with the additional documents, it is even more true now. It has to do with "character issues", which will add to the overall case against Herr Busch when his impeachment rolls into high gear.

Those of you that are dismissing this story out of hand are acting as the "poisoned well", not the writer.

Flem.

Again, if people would take their own time to really research and not just go for propoganda to give you fuzzy feelings they will find the truth. I found the truth myself last year. It's easy with the internet. Of course you have to figure out what's true or not.

But not by me :rofl:

You mean you go round smearing people good name :rofl:

Moranic1111 seriesly111 hugh111 admission to a misdeed. :rofl:

So you didnt smear her someone else did so now it is ok to
Drinking from a poison well wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

NEVER. The reich-wing blogosphere was responsible for the false meme that the doc was forged, without a shred of credible evidence. Once again, only the messenger is questioned, not the message. Both should be subjected to the highest level of scrutiny.

And the Navy wrote up Kerry for all those awards because they felt he was going to run for President in thirty years or so. Ya Right...Whatever..:shrug: It seems to me like you are the one poisoning the well..

wrote a book.

Having a book people can refer to is just another layer of protection, it seems to me. If there was no book, and the story got released, don't you think it would be easier to get swift boated? I could be wrong, but if there was a book or if there wasn't any book is a moot point, IMHO. There's a story here. And, what's more, is that a book (and the ensuing media coverage) is now her only outlet since they got her fired. Not much else for a journalist to do.

The person's book was about to be published and put out and all that, so they had to do it first.

I really can't understand your position here. I'm baffled.

:crazy:

Have you been sleeping through the past 5 years???? the only way people like Richard Clarke, and this woman, can get an ear to their truths, is by writing a book and promoting it. Unfortunately, book tours and interviews are now replacing true journalism. Does NOT make it untrue.

I fear another colossal embarrassment.

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what are you saying?

I sent you one.

I've seen the additional documents; that is, if the additional documents are the ones posted on Ms. Mapes's web site.

The documents do tend to confirm the story that Mr. Bush did not complete his service. Unfortunately, they do absolutely nothing to buttress the case that the documents used in the original 60 Minutes story were authentic.

It is not true, as some assert, that one cannot prove a document to be a fake from a copy. It is true that the original is quite often required to demonstrate that a document is authentic, but the reverse is not true. A "newly discovered" portrait by Rembrandt that showed the subject listening to a walkman would be dismissed out of hand as a fake whether one looked at the original, a copy or a fax of a copy. Similarly, Joseph Newcomer published the definitive debunking of the documents. He gives an exhaustive discourse, detailing every step in his analysis, thus making his work repeatable by anyone who cares to try. I don't have access to the identical equipment he used but I was able to reproduce some of his work (enough to convince me that the remainder is reliable).

I know that there are some who will maintain that the documents haven't been proved to be fakes. Just at some people maintain that evolution hasn't been proved, there are always a few who are unwilling to let the overwhelming evidence shake their faith. However; to anyone who is willing to look objectively at the evidence, the 60 Minutes story was based on some pretty poor forgeries. That does not mean that Bush didn't get special treatment or that he didn't fail to fulfill his obligation. It does mean, though, that the 60 Minutes piece was extremely shoddy journalism at best.

I also can't bring myself to believe that this was an elaborate trap engineered by Karl Rove. I'm not saying that he couldn't have done it; I just don't think he would have thought Mary Mapes and Dan Rather would be so gullible as to fall for such apparent forgeries.

It seems a bit of misdirection to me ....

Assertions full of jargon and self created images which purport similarities between the memos and 'microsoft word', and yet I see no specific comparisons to IBM Typewriter typefaces INSTEAD of those from Miscosoft Word, printed at 1200 dpi and scanned at 600 dpi (a regular process for this fella) ...

WHY does he not show the comparable elements from existing IBM typewriters ? ...

I am not convinced these are forgeries ....

Claims to appropriate authority notwithstanding: Angel Mengele claimed to be a Doctor, and technically he was ..... But he would never be MY child's doctor, no matter how much authority he could claim ...

So called 'experts' can hoodwink as well as the best of them ...

I am not convinced the memos are forgeries ....

It's not going away, none of it and when this crime element topples, there will be a vetting that will send chills down the spine of all Americans. We need to see the truth, unvarnished.

Yes. He's a rat bastard...has ALWAYS been a rat bastard.

Peace.

and the rest of the dark side set it up that way. Freedom is over folks, get use to it.

<>

sort of like the corpomedia says Bush is popular enough times, it's becomes "conventional wisdom"

The Bush White House has never said the story was false. Just the whole ordeal with the documents. Hmm, I wonder why that is.... Could it be because the story in of itself is true?

Trying to make Bushes guard service an issue is what got Kerry beat the last election. It is a dead horse and the sooner we get off of it the better.

With the quality candidate we had in Kerry and the issues that he was so qualified to deal with, we wasted it trying to talk about Viet Nam and Bushes guard service instead of the issues that really mattered.

I think Rove and the Republicans suckered us in on this matter knowing that it was a dead end street. We did just what they wanted us to do and it worked for them.

IT FLAT PISSES ME OFF JUST TO THINK OF IT.

Kerry was by far the best candidate on the issues and really knew how to project them in a very compelling way. BUT!!!!he got derailed on something that did not matter one iota to the voting public

This is critical to the ends that they will go to to protect a lie.

Kerry would have won if this story stuck - and is should have - because Bush is and was a lying coke-head drunk who shouldn't be allowed to drive a bus, nevermind destroy a great country.

And you honestly believe the American public doesn't care that the president lied?????

..Have you ever heard of election fraud?

I can barely stand to hear the canard that "Kerry got beat" or "bush won" anymore. It's like there's a total disconnect between what really happened and what got reported in the media.

2000 all over again. Many people still believe "Gore got beat" or "bush won."

I tell you what, if I'd been framed and fried like this woman was, I'd do everything in my power to restore my reputation, and politics and timing be damned.

and A-fucking-men.

He also did not spend a lot of time on Vietnam - other than to have his crew with him at the convention. Rassmann was actually not in touch with Kerry till Rassmann saw Tour of Duty in a book store - found the story about Kerry's broze star (where his name was misspelled)- he called to see if he could help the man who saved his life.

Kerry spoke to the issues at the rallies - with no more than a line or two on Vietnam. (usually something to the effect of - I fought for my nation as a young man, and I will do so as President). He also mentioned in one line that when he returned he protested the war.

Clearly not main topics in his campaign.

issue...Where did you get that idea? In fact, if you ever heard Kerry speak or whenever anyone asked him about Bush's guard service, he was very clear to state that whether one served in Vietnam in the Service or in the Guard, it was served with honor.

Personally, maybe what Kerry should have done IS DO WHAT YOU CLAIM HE DID and call Bush out on his service. But he didn't. So please don't claim he did.

That flat out pisses me off just to think of it....that people pass judgement on false and incorrect information.

And he probably won, anyway.

He was a lousy candidate and still got more votes. There are too many statistical "errors" and too many polls outside the margin of error for there to be any other explanation of 2004.

I can't prove he did and nobody can prove he didn't because there is no audit trail in many of the current computer voting systems.

As a computer pro, I believe the only reason for not having the audit trail is to enable cheating.

How arrogant for you to speak for all of America. The man is the most powerful man in the world and you don't think his past matters.....:crazy:

The election was thoroughly rigged. The results have long been discredited. If Jeeezuss himself had run, Bush would've stolen it.

And I also believe it was based upon a real document. This was Rove's way of undermining and getting rid of the real story, while making CBS look bad.

Read and then watch "Bush's Brain."
Textbook, classic KKKarl bullshit. I hope this gets legs and keeps running!

Great book. The film is OK, too, but the book is better, IMHO.

Rove has been doing this stuff for three decades, and he's never been honest one day of that time.

That's what I've been saying all along.

Honestly, I'd be more impressed with Mapes if she were pursuing THAT angle of the story. It's as big as the AWOL, plus it's current. It's about dishonesty in the white house - not TANG in the 70s.

If I were her or Dan Rather I'd spend every day of my life working on salvaging my reputation by uncovering the real story of those documents. I think "Buckhead" will prove to be the weakest link.

I MULTI-TASK!
Every hammer blow widens the cracks.

:patriot:

And despite the fact that she and CBS had the goods, the whole damned thing will no doubt sink into oblivion, as it was a pre-election issue. She is trying to save her name, and reputation, which is shot due to Rove. I would expect that some will see her as legit, but the Corporate Media will not give her the time of day.

I say, God Bless her for trying to get the word out!

CBS did her wrong.

that an AWOL nation slept while it all went down, I too give a shit.

Just because someone manipulated the facts doesn't mean there are no facts or that we have heard all of them. I say we re-visit all the bush shit we've been subjected to since these chumps took office.

on edit: typos

investigative reporters who spent their whole professional lives to getting to the truth, those that try to show how the privileged Bushies can circumvent military service in their youth but start unfounded wars with ill-gotten power.
As for the distraction claims, maybe it's just these sort of distractions that came before the election frauds that can help prove that they were rigged in the first place.

ago and loved her intelligent and frank responses. Vowed to get the book, but in the holiday madness, forgot about it.

Of course I'd like to know the truth about that whole turkey shoot. Call me crazy, but I think truth and facts matter. If we ever reach a point where we are willing to give them up just because something is "old news", then we have lost the last battle to keep our country.

have relatives in the military or have seen it first hand. Someone who experiences their buddy's head blown off or children with missing limbs or people incinerated to death being led by individual's with sociopathic tendencies who only see the fortunes their buddies and themselves will reap. I do not take it lightly!!!! Yes, I want to know that Cheney had five deferments but he was a warmongering hawk or that Bush was a party hardy awol ass who bragged about how he got away with everything. Because the kids that are fighting and dying are doing it because of these war profiteers that don't give a damn about our soldiers or those that are dying!!!!

The truth is important to so many people for so many good reasons. To let the lie sit out there in the sun, stinking up the block, is obscene.

How many people lost their jobs and their "credibility" because of these lying, treasonous rat bastards? The guy is a LOSER!!! Plain and simple. This helps prove it.


Truth is our most powerful weapon!

Peace.

and the most telling, was how the rest of the mainstream media competely turned their back on CBS and Dan Rather. Worse than that, they participated in the mocking of what was obviously a true story and, if the documents really were forged, which I haven't seen any conclusive proof of, likely a set-up.

The 'mainstream' media hasn't been forced into shilling for Republicans, they defend them willingly.

The Repugs were after Rather because he stalked Nixon night after night once Watergate got going. He also interviewed Saddam before Bush got his War Resolution through and that made him a "mark" for the BFEE to go after.

Mary Mapes broke the Abu Graeb Story. And, they figured they could take out two enemies at once. This is one more disgraceful episode in a MSM that is in the Bushies pockets. I wonder how much they are getting paid?

Seems that MSNBC can stumble along with failing ratings year after year and CNN has now become the "Blitzer Show" where all news comes from him. He works every day except Saturday. What does anyone think that means? They must be on a dole from the Govt. to be propagandizing that hard when their ratings are tanking.

before they'd even think about going up against Republicans in any serious way.

They're gone as an honest force for social, economic or political justice in America, and they aren't coming back.

By the time Dems get back into power, their no-doubt renewed attack-dog mentality will be recognized for the blatant corporate, and just plain right-wing, partisanship that it is.

This gets to the heart of the matter with America at this point. A dishonest administration and a media that is just as dishonest by not standing with their news media departments because that media conglomerate (Viacom) is in bush's back pocket. When you have a country where you can trust neither the media for the tuth or the government, are you really free?

This is about the arrogance of power, the destruction of this woman's reputation, livelihood, career. For what? So Bush could continue his lie.

She was sacrificed by the administration--an example for all journalists to see: don't tell the truth about the administration or we will destroy you.

Her corporate bosses, her co-workers the powerful journalists, sat in fear and silence as she was destroyed, and along with her the free press.

Why is this important? Mapes is the epitome of the media today. She was one of the last attempts at journalism before the media morphed to the propaganda machine it is today.

Her story should be shouted from the rooftops and the blogs. Cause it will be minimized on MSM.

Exactly.

Most here know the truth. I've been waiting five years for the truth about BushCo. It has come and gone, just like this will come and go.

I'm not saying it's not the truth. I'm only saying that it won't make much of a difference.

I was watching comedian David Cross the other night and he said that the MSM was hollering about people in NOLA stealing food, clothing and whatever else. He said that instead of that, the shouting should have been about Bush stealing our civil rights, our money from the treasury and our world standing. But that's not happening. And people here hopelessly hold out hope that it will. Well I'll join in when the shouting starts but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm tired of truth without much else.

ummm, interesting notion.
well, you do sound tired, that much seems to make sense.

it. :shrug: For five years!!!

What's CHANGED?

and you yell about not getting MSM exposure..... but when it does and it causes people to talk more and perhaps spread the truth, you respond by rolling on the floor having a tantrum.
guess what, when rove gets indicted, the country isn't going to change in a instant either!
but we'll talk about it, and be happy it happened anyway.

...is it starting to register yet?

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. . . though he seems the type that absolutely must have the last word. Sheesh, what a weird reaction to some very good news.

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...many of whom died in Vietnam.

Ben Barnes, who then was the Speaker of the Texas House of Reps remembered well helping Smirko get into the Texas Air National Guard.

Must've been some feat of a favor, seeing how Dim Son scored 25 out of 100 on the pilot's aptitude test.



Poppy says Barnes is a "partisan Democrat" who lied. Sure. What I don't understand is why so many DUers with 1,000 posts and many with the golden star of unlimited devotion would agree with him.

Bush flew through the ranks even though he scored so high. Wasn't he supposedly a lieutenant?

Here's a great compilation of USG documents of Lootenut Boosh.

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm

A bunch more documents are missing.

They too, are A.W.O.L.

Strings were pulled to get Dubya commissioned as an officer when he joined the ANG, in addition to moving to the head of the line to join the ANG in the first place, and to get selected as a pilot.

I was drafted into the Army in 1969. No commission, no Champagne unit, no jet airplanes to play with, couldn't quit when I felt like it. That's how it worked when your family had no influence.

Which is usually reserved for people with special skills--surgeons, etc. No ROTC, no OCS. And no repercussions if he skipped out.

The bottom line of Bush's "service" is that he get special handling, as the Ben Barnes segment confirmed. And he didn't fulfill his obligation. That is not news, either. Neither of these facts was EVER denied. The whole exercise turned into a discussion of Obsolete Office Technology. (I worked in a law office back then--using an IBM Executive with proportional spacing.)

shames this nation
Why is it so hard to keep in our minds more than one story?

And it's pretty good. I enjoy it so far. Anyone who knows their Bush family 101 knows Georgie was awol. I remember there was a store on snopes.com I believe about a woman who knew Bush back in the day and she claimed not to have seen him doing anything active. Apparently when he was there in Alabama he would come in late when he pleased and would be lazy etc.

but you can see the manipulation of the News Media and the propoganda machine...

Bush was able to spin and spin to his hearts delight with NO Accountability

freedom of the press was destroyed by this man...

It seems to have been pulled by the host site...

I keep getting taken to a page that says "Hotlinking isn’t cool." but no video.

Any help?

Thanks!

into your browser. That worked for me. They don't want a direct link from another website (DU).

copy below and paste into new browser, then delete first two words

REMOVE BEGINNINGhttp://thepoliticalteen.com/video/mapessr.wmv

dotted her i's and crossed her t's. she won't be fooled again. this should be good. cbs should be pushing for this to get their credibility back.

They want entertainment and a friendly FCC and no more fines.

that cbs will right 2 wrongs.

All the little Freeper trolls who follow this story around (you can find them at amazon, they are the ones who gave the book 1 star before it was even released) act like their lives depend upon debunking the Bush AWOL story. They are such losers, devoting their time and efforts to protecting the silver spoon coke snorting son of privilege who has used the Constitution as toilet paper.

Buckhead, aka Harry MacDougald, an Atlanta lawyer

This whole sorry episode began on the evening of September 8, when a lawyer named Harry MacDougald, posting anonymously as "Buckhead," wrote on Free Republic that the memos were forgeries created by computer word processing or possibly by typesetting equipment but not on typewriters available in 1972. By the following morning this assertion had been picked up by a number of right-wing blogs. It hit Drudge mid-afternoon, was on Fox News by early evening, and was all over mass media in time for the 10 o'clock news

In other words, the unsupported opinion of one anonymous man traveled from a radically extremist web site to all of mass media and became cemented as conventional wisdom in less than 24 hours.

Note that most of the same people who ridiculed Dan Rather because he wasn't more careful about the memos accepted "Buckhead's" claims at face value. We may yet learn that the memos were forged, but this cannot be determined with certainty without the originals.

(If your RealPlayer will work for you!)

http://www.booktv.org/AfterWords/index.asp?segID=6510&schedID=388

Thanks, usregimechange, for the news.

I've been watching this lady for the past 6 weeks, and am very impressed. After reading some of the posts on this thread, I suspect that some DUers are not paying close enough attention to her message. It's not simply a matter of Young George using family ties to avoid his duty to his country: it's the extreme manner in which the administration will attempt to destroy people for telling the truth. What happened to CBS is not that different from what happened to Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson.

cause problems with their propaganda. Their boldness shows their hubris and confidence in their control of all major public media. Let us hope they underestimate the power of dissent and truth-seeking.

want of faith in one's cause." -- Gandhi

I'll toss that into the on-going discussion on this thread for two reasons. The first is that we find the Bush administration is intolerant of people disagreeing with them .... especially when those disagreeing are willing to go public with the truth. With the outing of Valerie Plame, at the very least the administration showed a willingness to put a man's wife and children at increased risk of harm, because they were angry that he spoke the truth -- publicly.

In the CBS case, there is no real doubt that Young George skipped out on his duty to the National Guard. Yet because CBS was willing to report it, the administration was willing to crush people. They wanted to punish people -- to really make them suffer -- because they were willing to tell the truth when few others dared to. This lady's book is of value, and I admire her. I am also aware that Dan Rather knows some other things about the administration's previous attempts to dictate what the media could report. I use the word "dictate" purposefully. I am hoping that Rather will break his silence soon.

The second reason I use this Gandhi quote, is that we must take great care in not allowing ourselves to become tired along the path to democratic reform, and to allow the intolerance we recognize as disease in others -- such as the administration -- to take root here. As my good friend Nothing Without Hope says, we must appreciate "the power of dissent and truth-seeking."

for what we know is right, for what truly matters. That would be the moment that we would LOSE. One more Gandhi quote:

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

And, my friend, a special wish for us all, all over the world, for a better new year than this one was. ?

and worked in Purchasing, and Finance, and every damned section on every air force base I was attached to and I saw a LOT of Typewriters and LOT of documents, and I can flat out tell you that ALL of these documents WERE available in those typefaces with the characteristics shown by CBS.

Anything else is a LIE. I was there, I have ORDERS made out to ME that used those same typesets and typed fonts and faces. I used Typewriters all over every base I was at or was sent documents by everyone ordering parts and supplies.

What CBS offered was TRUTH, pure and simple.. I KNOW because I was THERE at the same time. I specifically went and dug out some of my old documents to check and I was very nearly going to post them at the time except I didn't want Freepers and the like to be spreading my info (again) and threatening me or my family - basically I don't want to go to jail for killing one of these assholes if they are stupid enough to bother me too much :)

USAF same time as BUSH, as a matter of fact I was DRAFTED and share the exact same BIRTHDAY as Jeb Bush, who curiously enough did not enter any branch of the service as far a I know, ever since I found out we share the SAME Birthday I've been puzzled as to why *I* had to GO and HE didn't.

God bless this woman, more power to her, she's RIGHT and I'll back her all the way.

Hmmm .... why were you called on, and not Jeb? Perhaps, much in the manner of Dick Cheney, he had more important things to do?

and all the other "swiftboat" bullshit flung at anyone or anything that attempts to bring light to this misadministration. Nothing should be swept aside in favor of a juicier story. EVERYTHING that has credence should be brought forward and show to be a part of what it is: a CONSPIRACY to place bushco* in the highest office of the land. It started in Texas. It started with a governorship. It started with first "sanitizing" the military record of a derelict and abject failure. Shine the light, let every one see.

It`s about the Bush administration`s willingness to destroy ANYONE who comes at them with the truth.

Bush was AWOL, yet he dressed up in umpteen military costumes. Told the world how much respect he has for the military. Used soldiers for props every chance he had. Lied about his own service, something like...."I`ve been to war and I`ve raised twins and if given a choice, I`d go to war." Presented himself and his five-deferment VP as brave warriors in the war on terrorism, opposites of the wussie anti-war opposition.

Let the wingnuts extol the virtues of their hero president. Way down deep, Bush knows he`s an AWOL fraud.

If Bush didn`t have so many people writing his speeches, wiring up his teleprompter, altering his history and designing his backdrops, he`d be but a speck of nothing in Barbara Bush`s biography.

They should have supported her thru it all and stuck by their guns. As she says, they vetted it, they did a very good job of preparing for the report. They had nothing to be ashamed of thru the whole thing. Instead, they let the RW screamers scare them off a perfectly legitimate and probably 100% true story. That's the shame in the story.

We would have never gone with the memo story. Why?

1. The original memos were destroyed by the source. CBS had faxes of copies. That's crap, total crap. Faxes of copies can't be verified and are totally bogus.

2. The source said he got the memos from a high ranking official in the TANG. That was a lie. CBS never checked with the "high ranking official" to see if he ever actually had the documents in question.

Of course, I think GW shirked his duty, went AWOL, swiftboated CBS, is the worst-president-ever, lies sooner than breathes, etc. etc.

But that doesn't absolve CBS of running with a story that they couldn't verify. This is Journalism 101 stuff here, folks. If journalists don't maintain the standards that they themselves set, how can we believe anything they report?

CBS blew it, and they got justifiably nailed.

There won't be a twice.

Of NSA spying. The neocons were onto CBS and managed to cover their asses thereby allowing themselves to be able to deny everything.

has been allowed to happen in once Democratic countries.

because of the Abu Ghraib photos. At the time, polls were showing that 63% of the American people oppose torture "under any circumstances" (May 04). That's a big number which necessarily includes many Republicans, and probably includes military personnel/families who are attached to the "quaint" Uniform Code of Military Justice. I think it's a very telling number--the "line on the sand" marking those Americans who were sticking to their sense of ethics, justice, lawfulness and right conduct, despite relentless fear mongering and war mongering. There was also only a 5 point difference between those who oppose torture "under any circumstances," and those who opposed the Iraq war from the beginning, before the invasion (58%--Feb. '03), giving us an average of 60% opposed to the two pillars of Bush foreign policy: war and torture, with opposition on the rise in May '04.

I also suspect that Nicholas Berg--an expendable asset of some kind--got beheaded by our side, with video, to counter the Abu Ghraib shock to Americans. (His email account and password showed up in Zacharias Moussaoui's computer, according to his father--the computer that Coleen Rowley was trying to get access to before 9/11 (access denied); the FBI supposedly bought Nick's story that he met Moussaoui by accident on a bus, and lent him his computer, and then, later, the FBI let Berg into post-invasion Iraq, where he was wandering around "looking for business," an implausible story. Nick was in US custody for about 10 days just before he was beheaded.) The Berg beheading, which occurred just after the Abu Ghraib photos came to light, was used by the Freepers as evidence of the "enemy's" savagery.

It's interesting what they were obsessed with P.R.-wise, and why they were so worried about P.R. when they had direct control of the election system and apparently also could order up the doctoring of the exit polls. (I wish CBS would cover THAT story--the computer "breakdown" at the end of voting, and the matching of the exit polls to Diebold's and ES&S's "result"!*) Anyway, what I think it all points to is that they did not have perfect, predictable control of the election results. This has occurred to me also with regard to Ohio. Why would they need to engage in such visible, egregious violations of the Voting Rights Act, seemingly designed to rile people up and put a spotlight on election fraud? It leads me to believe that the electronic tabulators had to be pre-programmed, and percentages of vote flipping decided upon before the actual voting--that is, that it wasn't so easy to directly tweak the vote on election day. They were clearly working on multiple fronts--with massive purges and vote suppression of black/brown voters, and student voters; a tweak of 3% to 4% in the east coast time zone; shaving smaller %'s from Kerry in multiple states (both blue and red); and flips in some Electoral College/battleground states.

Then, on election night, when the exit polls revealed a 3% Kerry win (minus all the pre-purged voters--in short, a Kerry landslide), they had to hide that evidence. With 60% of Americans opposing Bush foreign policy, evidence of election fraud (and this was quite strong evidence) could have caused an insurrection. That must have been a interesting phone call.

*Now, back to CBS and the exit poll story (that none of the news monopolies has covered). It's a far more important story than Bush's Texas Nat'l Guard service--except for the "sting" part of that story, which I think is very important. Could it be that the "sting" on CBS--or, the savagery of it--was a pre-emptive strike on the one news organization that might have exposed--or balked at--the doctoring of the exit polls? Was it intended to put CBS into disarray--losing two top news people--on election day itself, possibly the "sting" combined with Bush Cartel operatives within CBS, gunning for any old-fashioned journalists who had both the clout and the curiosity to look into the doctoring of the exit polls?

You see, I don't think the controversies about Bush's service, or Kerry's (the Swiftboat liars), had anything to do with how the election went. I think peoples' minds were made up about Bush long before that. (Zogby stated that Bush's approval numbers were so low, leading up to the election, that he could not win.) The key to the election was in the voting machines, not in these nebulous items that float along the newsstream. So, why DO this controversy? Why plant real docs on CBS (and one re-typed one), to tempt them into it?

CBS reporting on the impossible tweak that was done to the exit polls (to get them to match the "results" of the "trade secret" programming code) would have been a far more devastating story, to the Bush Cartel, than Bush's Nat'l Guard service (everybody knew he was a shirker anyway). Why highlight the Nat'l Guard story? Why tempt CBS to cover it? What was this "sting" really about?

Some think it was punishment for the Abu Ghraib photos, but I'm hesitating over that, because I think that the "punishment" of Joe Wilson by Rove (for Wilson's NYT article on the Niger nuke allegation) was a cover story. Plame and her counter-proliferation network were the target all along, and Wilson may even have been baited to publish (there is evidence for it--or, the very least, that the Bushites expected his article), and the "crude" Niger forgeries may have also been bait to the CIA (to draw them into a public position of no nukes in Iraq, and to discredit the CIA when the nukes that the "Rome group" were intending to PLANT in Iraq, after the invasion, were "found" by Judith Miller.)

Many people interpret ALL of this (the "sting" on CBS, the Plame outing, and other events) as intimidation and repression. And I certainly think that's part of it. But I think we too easily dismiss the Bushites as mere thugs--brutal political players into crushing the opposition. I think they are far more than that. I think they are a criminal syndicate with extensive and incredibly evil operations inside and outside of the country. Their torture dungeons in eastern Europe, for instance, in my opinion have nothing whatever to do with "keeping Americans safe" but rather with covering up Bush Cartel crimes. So, too, their illegal non-FISA spying.

I do think that the Bushites needed a fairly smooth political story the end of which was Bush's "comeback win" in 2004 (and Rove even talked of a "mandate"--just after the so-called election). The Swiftboat liars were part of that con--creating some "reason" why Kerry might have lost. And then there was Cheney/Rove's statements about their "invisible" get-out-the-vote campaign, in the "churches" (for which there is ZERO evidence--the Dems blew the Repubs away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40.) They are (were?) walking a tightrope between rigged elections and the manufacture of an illusion of support (using their lapdog, corrupted and/or blackmailed corporate news monopolies), and they've been on this tightrope since about spring 2002, when it became clear that they were going to use 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq.

They are running a country in which they have almost no support (except for a rightwing minority of 30% to 40%, most of which has always been with us). So maintaining the illusion of an electoral "win" is critically important--far more important than a 30 year old story of Bush being AWOL. It's just a guess, on my part, that the CBS "sting" may have been aimed at covering up the election fraud (through creating disarray in the CBS news department) rather than political punishment for the Abu Ghraib photos (the Abu Ghraib torture story had other outlets), although it could have had both purposes.

There are two issues that seem to be verboten to Democrats: the issue of monopolistic news organizations, and the issue of our fraudulent election SYSTEM (Bushite corporations controlling vote tabulation with "trade secret," proprietary programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls.) (I mean, come on...). The news organizations are not just behemoth monopolies, they are war profiteers, in many cases. Where are the populist calls to bust them up? (Dean issued such a call--about a week before they destroyed his campaign with the doctored "scream" footage.) As for Bushites counting our votes in secret, even Dean has been rather quiet about it. (It's on page 112 or something of the DNC election report, in the fine print--election system vendors shouldn't be "partisan.") Very puzzling. Is it fear, or what?

The tightrope the Bushites are on--between rigged elections and an illusion of support--may have been only temporary, due to the newness and uncertainties of electronic vote rigging. They seem to be dropping the "illusion" part lately. Bush, with a 38% approval rating (and Cheney with 18%) are openly asserting dictatorial powers to break the law at will, and they don't seem to give a damn what anybody thinks about it. This may be because of recent experiments in even more massive vote flipovers than occurred in 2004. Recently, in Ohio, there were four ELECTION REFORM initiatives on the ballot, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, but which got flipped over to 60/40 LOSSES (!) on election day. And nobody seems able to do anything about it. With power like this--to just invent the vote--they can assert anything they want to, and who or what is there to stop them?

Bob Koehler, on the Ohio election initiatives;
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

There are grass roots election reform movements around the country, which are having some successes. These are the main hope for our democracy right now. And some Dems are joining in, notably Russ Holt (HR 550, which has 169 co-sponsors, mostly Dems, and which will, among other things, ban undisclosed software), and Deborah Bowen, a CA state senator who is running for Sec of State, and has stated her opposition to undisclosed ("trade secret") software in our election system. Rigged elections are why Bush/Cheney is asserting dictatorial powers without caring much any more whether they have public, news media or Congressional support. They don't really need it. Or they think they don't. We'll see.

were so horrible that it was hard for the jury to get their head around the facts even if those facts appeared to be irrefutable. There is some emotional component that kicks in and says no I cannot believe that because I can't believe anyone would do that.
A good prosecutor can get around those feelings and convince a jury. Our media is not willing to do their job and tell the truth about these criminals.