We do NOT want impeachment in 2006, we do however want to ....

NEUTER BushCo and expose everything they have done so as to fully and finally drive a stake thru the dark heart of the NeoCon-GOP.

Now, here me out.

Unless we do a two-fer and get Chimp/Darth at the same time, we will be stuck with President Darth (or whoever Chimp appoints as VP when Darth goes for health or whatever other reason he resigns).

If we do impeach both at the same time, then we would face a massive backlash and may take the hit in 2008.

THEREFORE, when we retake THE HOUSE (and hopefully the SENATE), we begin the INVESTIGATIONS of IMPEACHMENT... investigations that will continue all the way thur 2008, dredging up ever single piece of vile corruption that the BCF has done over the past 5 years, putting it out for all to see, catching a few more of the so-called 'leaders' of the 'thugs.

We never HAVE to 'pull the trigger' on IMPEACHMENT, just keep it hanging over their heads and use it to show all that was done. Let's face it, if we impeach them, then continuing to dig out the dirt AFTER IMPEACHMENT will be seen as sour grapes, but anything dug up WHILE INVESTIGATING is fair game.

NEUTER THEM. If we have both the HOUSE & SENATE, BushCo will live under the sword of Damacles for two years... while we can push thru legislation that will try to undo the damage done by them. Block EACH AND EVERY ONE of BushCo's nominations, if for no other reason we can say it "would be ill-advised" while the adminstration is "under investigation".

Now, there is the downside to this strategy..

- If DARTH resigns for health, we get a new VP in line of succession. I can't remember if the House/Senate has to approve this person or not, but it does leave us open to...

- CHIMPY resigns to get out from under all this. It removes the 'investigation' (unless he does it before DARTH resigns) and forces us to go to plan B - Investigation of all the 'inner circle' (Rumsfart, Congasleeza, et.al.) and their part in the evil.

Then, somewhere around... OH... DECEMBER '08, we pull the trigger on IMPEACHMENT, kick them both out and they go out as being REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

IMMEDIATE IMPEACHMENT might be the most satisfying.. but making it a LONG, PAINFUL (for them) PROCESS could be the most beneficial in the long term....

but here is my concern. After Clinton's impeachment and subsequent win, I think that the threat of impeachment is not as dire as it once was. We have become desensitized. And remember that after that impeachment Gore won. Even though he didn't. But he did. It didn't stain the Dems all that badly.

once we have both houses (or enough) then impeachment becomes a more likely outcome. AND the point of my train of thought is to EXPOSE AND BRING TO THE BRILLIANT LIGHT ALL THEIR CRIMES, ALL THE CRIMES OF THE GOP. Once the investigation(s) begin, it becomes part of the public record, not a story buried on page 16 of "The Thrifty Nickle". And this will scare the GOP to death, we'll see them feeding each other to the investigators to try to avoid their own demise.

though.. when you impeach a president aren't you limited to specific evidence about the specific crime, which in this case I'd assume would be the 4th Amendment crime?

.. and a skillful investigator can follow the dots from one thing to the next. Why did they go around the FISA courts? Who were they wiretapping? For what reason? and on.. and on.. and on...

Feel good soon vs really save America...

I've always been one to see the point of carefully pulling the weeds out by digging up the roots as opposed to just whacking the heads off the ones we actually see in the garden

Shouldn't we stop detailing how crooked Bush is and detail how we can win back voters?

.. by dragging not only the crimes of BushCo but the ENTIRE GOP, we destroy their 'base', show them how they were used and either turn them away from the GOP and toward us or they stay home. Either way is a benefit for us.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

We don't give a drunk driver who killed several people a "pass" in favor of our personal goals. If Bush committed an impeachable offense, he needs to be impeached. Now, not later.

Without impeachment, we are living in a lawless country. The constitution, Bill of Rights, etc., IS DEAD. I'm personally not expecting to be free again. I will look for a FREE country for my children. To absolute hell with this new untrue America. Pardon me but I speak plainly and speak the truth. The country we grew up in is NO LONGER. The flag is an EMPTY SYMBOL of a country that no longer exists. (sorry Hillary)


Thank you for visiting my rant.

I grew up in one that had Nixon stomping on civil liberties. But we survived. And frankly, the "truth" about this not being a "free country" is your personal truth. I'm not sure how you would define a free country or one that isn't free. There have been and always will be limitations on "freedom" in this country, as there are in any organized society. This administration has screwed up so much its hard to know where to begin, but they haven't turned this into a country lacking in freedom, particularly compared to the rest of the world. Just ask all the folks trying to get here from places that aren't free. Again, we need to toss these jokers out and start undoing the mess they've made. But it really doesn't help persuade the average person that Democrats are the folks for that job when we claim that we're not a "free" country anymore.

Rant over.

onenote

to hide the truth?

Case Closed

Articles of impeachment were approved in Committee and then he resigned before the House could impeach him. But that's neither here nor there with respect to the point I was making, which was there have been assaults on liberty in this country throughout its history. Incarcerating Japanese-Americans. Jim Crow laws. McCarthy's witch hunts. And on and on. The notion that until chimpy and his gang, this country was a bastion of freedom is a romantic fantasy. THe pendulum swings one way and then it swings back. It doesn't take impeachment to make it happen. I see the pendulum swinging back as the public reacts to chimpy's overreaching. But beating our chests about how we aren't free won't move that pendulum forward. The fact is that it is our very freedom that will allow us to elect Democrats to replace the pack of idiots that have been screwing up the country for the past five years.

onenote

and yes, he was pardoned and NO, you haven't answered the question about the fourth estate. Yes, we have done some bad things in the past and yes, there have been periods where people weren't free. The question I have for you is, will "the pendulum swing back" in your lifetime? How do you know? I haven't seen a great reaction to the crimes yet from the public. How much total control will these people have? This isn't the 19th century. There are more ways to invade one's privacy than at any time in history. So, will you be free the rest of your life? Can you accept the risk? While I might could if I were childless, I have no intention to at present. Screw going backwards to the gilded age or an age without the Geneva conventions or checks and balances in my government. Screw that.

and I want it as soon as possible. It would be very, very, very, very wierd for me not to want impeachment (you might would say I would have to be a rightwinger). What kind of person does not want impeachment or the truth to come out or checks and balances in government or constitutional protections and rights?

They will know our feelings by then, becasue it's gonna get LOUD--and they'd better not try to steal the elections with computer hocus pocus, either--we're watching them this time--

that's the point.

Watching did a whole lot of good didn't it?

Solidarity, Yo!


O8)

punishment, no restrictions on what the pres can and cannot do, he's not even grounded.

BFD.

hopefully in 2006. Then the first thing you do is go after Cheney and get him out. His replacement will have to be approved by the Senate if I'm not mistaken and if we control that we can make sure it's not another neo-con or crazy ass right winger.
Then we start investigating everything under the sun. That way we monopolize the media for months while exposing the GOP's corruption and incompetence.
So I tend to agree with you. Let's hang Duh-bya up like a pinata (figuratively speaking of course) and if he decides to quit the rightwing can't say we impeached him out of spite to get even for Clinton.

this country the best it can be? Or we can dig up dirt for two years. And waste media resources on some bullshit wet dream of bitter 14 year olds and chain smoking pundits. I miss the Democrats. I want higher minimum wage, incentives for corps to not outsource, safeguards for public schools, environmental legislation that makes sense, and the comfort in knowing that my government works for me, not Haliburton.

I don't care about dirt. I'm sick of dirt. They did it to Clinton. We do it to Bush. It doesn't change anything. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

This talk of revenge, or the satisfaction of impeachment, it is fruitless. Bush will never be impeached. It's a waste of time. And it reminds me of the idiots on the right when they went after Clinton.

Let's just get our people in the house, and do the things that need to be done. If there is a clear and glaring reason to divert all of our energy and attention to impeachment, as opposed to legislation that would benefit the people, go for it.

And besides, you need a super majority in the senate to impeach. Not going to happen. There are only 14 Republican Seats up for election in 2006. So, even if they all lose, which they won't, you're not going to get your impeachment.

A rare voice of reason. I understand why folks are blinded with rage about chimpy. But rather than lash out in blindness, we would do better to focus all of our senses on getting back into power and running the country in a manner that promotes Democratic principles of equality and social reform.

onenote

corrupt administration. The crimes are plentiful, but the most egregious is the one against our constitution. What has happened is our constitution is no longer any good...any of it. If one part has been made inoperable, the whole has been made inoperable. Bush can right now disband congress if he so desires.
He needs to be called to account for the crime right now and if it means impeachment, so be it. Anyone involved in this crime should be impeached or fired and put in jail. This is a high crime to the point of treason.
After impeachment, he should be charged with war crimes and any other crimes that didn't come out in the impeachment and made to answer for them. Corrupt and illegal is just that. We have laws they have broken that need to be enforced.

and agree with you. Bush has violated the law, and even worse, announced that he intends to keep on doing it. We can't decide whether or not to uphold the law based on political expediency. I understand that Republicans control both houses of Congress, but their job is to make laws, and the law in this case makes a provision for wiretapping by getting FISA warrants.

If the president is able, without any penalty, to choose which laws he wishes to obey and which he doesn't, then there is clearly no reason for Congress to exist. The president has become a dictator, and will decide what is legal and what isn't, and will do as he pleases. If Bush is allowed to violate the law without paying any price for doing so, then he has set a precedent for future presidents. Even Republicans should think about the possibilities of that.

I'm still reeling at the thought of my country sending people to other countries to be tortured, which goes against every feeling I ever had about being an American, and now, it's simply too much to accept that the President can become a dictator, ignoring the law, without a huge public outcry, and impeachment proceedings being initiated.

I am less then half your age. I don't like Bush, or the policies and VALUES of this administration. I don't feel like I've lost any constitutional rights though. I feel that they are safeguarded, and there are more people fighting for them. There have always been strange extra constitutional happenings in our country. Internment camps, the office of censorship during WW2, Hoover's FBI, ect... Even the assassination of JFK.

I feel like people get caught up in their hate and lose focus. Bush won't be charged for war crimes, it just won't happen. Ever. Most of congress supported the war, and still does. The fact that so much stuff is coming to light now is a result of a changing culture in the media and the people. I don't think Bush has done things that are far worse then other administrations, I think he has been caught doing them. And that's a good thing.

The constitution is not being eroded. It's being challenged, and when it is, it always wins. Recent fundie cases trying to censor video games have been struck down. The Patriot Act goes against the spirit of the constitution, but it holds up, so far. And if and when a case gets to the Supreme Court, we will all watch and see what happens.

The wire tapping, from what I understand, is clearly in violation of the FISA legislation. However, there are justifications for it as well under War powers, and that will play out in the next year. Like I said, I don't like the President. But I don't feel that I have lost any rights at this point, and I think there is a lot of overstatement to that degree.

or know the constitution or the bill of rights for my nation...

over the past 1 1/2 yrs i have felt my phone lines are tapped...and i do not like it one bit...

i do not feel as if when i vote my vote has counted...

i do not recognise the country i have lived for 54 years...you may not notice the difference ..but i sure as hell do and that all began when the supreme court chose my president in 2000..

we no longer have a media i trust or look to as the forth estate promised me in my constitution...not when GE gets the 5th largest no bid contract into a country we went to war with based on lies...and they own nbc

i no longer believe in many of my fellow americans because this president has divided my country unlike anyone since nixon..and i do remember those days..and another war we were lied into and lied about..and lost many friends and peers... in that war of lies! but then we had a media that took responsibility for their failures and told the american people truths..of which i see none of today!

i have lived in foreign countries and had my phones tapped because my hubby was vp of a union...but i did not have constitutional rights in those countries and they could do whatever they wanted with my phones...
i had my passport taken and the boss held it and only gave it back when they allowed us to leave their country...

but here in my own country to feel as though my lines are tapped ..when i do have constitutional protections against that...

well today its my rights that are being shit on..tommorrow its yours..what rights are you willing to give up??????????

books?? food?? your right to privacy?????????

how about free thinking ..are you willing to give that up tommorrow?? or how about your speech???

you better start worrying..because the way things are going...you may not have the choice of which right you give up..it will just be taken from you!

fly

that is exactly what will happen.

Nixon resigned on the "advice" of those around him. Those people used the excuse that impeachment and prosecution would hurt America. I don't think * gives a good GD about hurting average Americans or anyone else in his f'd up mind. He listens to himself and himself only.

I would hope that we can mange to keep them all on the rope for as long as possible so as to FINALLY convince the American public that all of them, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the Bush family have been involved in criminally undermining this country and the world for GENERATIONS.

Sadly, it would take generations more to expose everything that has been leading up to this moment in history. I sincerely doubt most Americans have the stomach or the attention span to hear all the gory details.

that democrats FOR DECADES have been the "forgive and forget" party.. Kumbayah, my friend, let's all get along..move forward..etc.

We did it during Iran Contra and look what we got.. THIS CREW!!

We allowed the republicans to "counsel" Nixon and let him resign..and they got credit for the whole resignation thing.. republicans 'spared' the nation the unpleasantness of an impeachment:puke:

We allowed the Thomas hearings to devolve into a mess, and came out looking stupid..and he was confirmed anyway..

We allowed the bullshit "invasion" of Panama, and got little or no "real information" from the whole mess.. Noriega was not the "strongman" we were told he was.. he was just a loose end" for GHWB , and might have been ready to spill the beans on some nasty stuff.. We sure never heard much about him after he was stowed away in a JEBBIE jail, have we?

Dems can pull the knife, but are always reluctant to USE it..

Republicans never even SHOW` you the knife.. they just sneak up behind you and stab you in the back..and then slit your throat for good measure..

that he will be tried internationally for war crimes. If he resigns voluntarily there is a possibility that he will be tried internationally for war crimes. Either way it is a good thing. Cheney will be next. I believe the only reason the world hasn't pursued it now is because they are afraid of them. Once they are out of office-look out.

International trial for war crimes? Not a chance in a million lifetimes. First, chimpy isn't going to be impeached unless it turns out that he spied on Americans for political purposes. Period. The NSA spying is wrong wrong wrong. But it isn't going to get the public so excited that they demand impeachment. And if the Dems go down the road of pursuing impeachment without overwhelming public support (which is the road the repubs went down with Clinton), it will only end up slowing the Democrats momentum in regaining the White House in 2008. As for international trials? Since chimpy isn't getting impeached, it would have to be after he either resigns or leaves office in 2009. EIther way, the American public is parochial enough that there would be outrage if an attempt was made to try him internationally. Plus, our allies (and yes we still have allies) wouldn't try it...folks living in glass houses don't throw stones.

onenote

Russia with Germany, France- many of our allies are fair-weathered friends who are quite frankly pissed at how they have been shut out of the reconstruction bounty. America is heavily in debt and if China decides to pull the plug, we could be in huge trouble. The world is steadily meeting or exceding us in technology. The current court at the Hague consists of members from almost all of the countries I have listed above. Bush deliberately misinterpreted UN resolutions; deliberately lied to the UN about weapons of mass destruction; has directly caused the deaths of thousands of US citizens as well as tens of thousands of middle eastern citizens; may have illegaly wire-tapped UN officials and may have direct financial interests in oil control in the middle east.

Milosevic was arrested by Yugoslav security forces. Do you think US troops will arrest Chimpy? Do you think a US president would order that to happen? Not a chance. With all due respect, look at the real world. Bill Clinton and GW Bush are best buddies, announcing their respect and affection for each other on national television. Do you think a Democratic president is going to order Bush I's son to be arrested? Do you think Clinton is going to stand idly by while comparisons are made to chimpy and milosevic? Not going to happen. Ever. And the only folks who don't seem to know this are here on DU.

onenote

If democrats take over the house, Nancy Pelosi becomes Speaker Of The House and will be next in the line of succession if both Bush and Cheney are removed from the White House. Pelosi will become president.

Campaign on the removal of Bush from office in the coming elections. Make the case on the campaign trail, over and over again.

We can't afford to worry about President Cheney. If Bush is impeached, Cheney would be shortly thereafter. He's probably committed more crimes.

If the Abramhoff scandal is big enough, the dems may be the majority party in congress before summer. Takes these jerks out ASAP, for the good of the country.

Running on an impeachment platform in 2006. The public isn't intersted in impeaching chimpy. They're interested in what's happening to the environment, to the reputation of the country around the world, to soldiers dying in Iraq, in wage stagnation and high energy costs, in the rich getter richer and the poor getting drowned in New Orleans, in the petty antics of politicians who appear to care more about their pet pork barrel projects than assisting those in need. Running on impeachment will simply make large numbers of voters throw up their hands in disgust. The electorate wants to see a government that works, not one that ignores them in order to wage political warfare after the election is over.

onenote

Say we want him gone because of the war, the environment, the economy and health care.

Say it's the only way to create a government that works. Remove those from power who don't want it to work except for their pocket books.

impeach ..think of the presedence this sets for all time..what would be the point of having any president from this day forward put his hand on the bible and swear an oath to uphold and protect the constitution?? it would be hypoctitical at the least..and a total disgrace to our nation..and our values as a people...to allow any president to be above the law..i don't give a shit what it does politically..its the very value we place on ourselves as americans..its what every mother and father teaches their child...laws exist for all of us...or we would have total anarchy...no one ..not even the president is above the law..no one!!

impeachment exists so no leader of our nation can break the law..no president...

its is the only safeguard we have as citizens to protect our laws and our constitution..and protect all of us from a dictatorship...

..its what sets us above so many other nations..if we look the other way for political reasons..we have no reason to exist...we have no reason to call ourselves a republic or a democracy..

i feel this lack of diligence by americans is a dangerous path ...

if * broke the law he needs to be impeached ..that is the bottom and the top of it...

that is what our constitution demands..and it is what we as Americans must demand!

it is our responsibility to our constitution..if we allow that most sacred document and law of our land to be used as a political tool or ploy..we have all lost the very reason for our republic!

and i will no longer call this my country or my home..as all my family fought for that constitution..many gave up their lives for it...


..as did many of our forefathers...and they warned us of this day..and called upon all of us to fight for that constitution..no one is above it or immune from its laws or values.

not even *..or epecially *

and not to use what is in it, for the protection of our very republic, and for her protection for future generations would be a disgrace...

and would be a legacy to my children i would be ashamed of...

fly

You got a mouse in your pocket or something?

And once again, you provethat we were separated at birth (it's an old joke in my house).

As soon as I saw this post I said, "What's with the royal "We" dude?" Don't worry, my computer is used to me talking to and sometimes even yelling at it.

these criminals have to be immpeached and the nation needs to go through that pain. If we don't, the republic is dead, yes it is that simple

impeachment..if there is just cause , and if it is proven that * lied..he < must> be impeached..we have kids in uniform who are dying in the name of that constitution..we have that obligation under our constitution to hold anyone who would lie or attempt to destroy that constitution accountable..and the only means we have under that constitution is impeachment!!!!!!!!!!!!

no one who calls themselves AMERICAN has the right to ignore the laws of that document...or our bill of rights...no one!!

not you, not me , not my neighbors..and certainly not our congress nor our president!! and it is our repsonsibility as Americans to hold anyone who does not abide by our constitutional laws accountable at all times!

the only "we " ..we need to be diligent about... is in the opening of that wonderful document, that assures our republic and democracy is .......

"WE THE PEOPLE"...and that means all of us, must hold those who we have governing this precious nation, follow her laws!

at all times..no excuses, no political pass, no time off for good behaviour...and no time out chairs...

break the law and we impeach..thats it ..period ...the end!
its the only WAY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS NATION PROTECT US ALL FROM A DICTATORSHIP!

democracy is fragile...in the wrong hands it can be broken easily...it is our responsibility to care for it and make sure it is never broken...if it means taking to the streets and demanding it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

we are the keepers of this most precious freedom we own...

do not abdicate your responsibilites..or generations will pay for your failure..



fly

Impeaching Bush for the very real crimes he has committed with restore impeachment, and what is impeachable.

We pull the trigger on Impeachment in 2007. But handle it in a dignified, high-minded way. Impeaching the the Bush clan will not only rid us of the traitorous Bush clan, but it will restore America as a nation of laws, laws that no one is above.

Let the impeachment process drag out into 2008, staining as many Republican incumbents (willful co-conspirators) as possible.

Ironically, purging the neocons from the political square will give real conservatives and old-school republicans a chance to retake their party from the extremist ideologues and the religiously insane.