"Impeachment will never happen"....

Oh yeah? Bull.. Fucking.. Shit! I have a suggestion for all you people who are jumping on these impeachment threads and pissing, moaning and whining. SHUT THE FUCK UP! Sure impeachment might not happen, Bush has gotten away with murder already. He will probably survive this. But I for one sleep better at night knowing I have spent some of my day signing petitions, writing letters and making phone calls, doing my small bit to get my voice heard and get things moving. There is an old saying "lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way"
well you whiney folks need to get the fuck out of the way. You want to sit back and let things happen, thats your option. I for one am in the fight of my life, and nothing some pissant little whiner says is going to make me stop what I am doing. So go tell it to someone who gives a shit and leave the work to people who aren't afraid to fight an uphill battle against overwhelming odds even when they are pretty sure they are going to lose.
For all you letter writers, petition signers and phone call makers and those of you in the press who are doing what you can :yourock: :toast: :woohoo:

:rant:

Apologies(especially to omega minimo who I know abhors bad language and who I really respect) for the course language in this rant, but I am sick and tired of being looked down upon for actually attempting to do something and not just sit and talk about it.

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when you run into someone with a defeatist attitude -- and they're out there!! -- it's easy to lose your patience. I was writing this morning about folks who fall into the rut where cynicism is their first and only response, and that just plays into the Thugs' hands.

It seems that walldude has taken an activist's approach, while you're content to debate the issue. We all understand the dynamics of majority rule and our chances of success. We're not stupid. Maybe his rant is out of frustration which you apparently don't feel. Fine.

IMO, one hand written letter to a congressman/senator is more effective than ten debates here on DU. We all have a stake in the outcome and infighting is counterproductive.

I can handle a rant, and I understand your point of view. I just can't accept condescension against someone who is committed enough to do something positive by someone who's just talkin'.

That is all.

Even more reason to kick some treasonous repukelicking ass...

It's really easy. One day I wrote a nice letter on Impeachment of the Crawford King, personalized it and faxed it to over 20 US Reps and Sens. We can also write, phone, get our friends and interested rels to do the same. It could be a political tsunami which might be just what it takes to get the crawford scum off of our nice country.

At least do this, if you really CAN'T bear to let the person you voted for know that you'd like to see the Bushies gone, at least don't bad mouth the people who ARE committed to this. If you feel like a killjoy, keep negative complacency to yourself and just say a little prayer for those activists who are really out there trying to make this happen day after day.

:shrug:



You have the right to do anything you want. Go for it.

I cannot begin to get behind the thought of a Cheney presidency. However, I have my doubts whether or not impeachment will happen...but whatever does happen - I HATE to be told to STFU on a message board. Since it is a message board, however, it is your right to tell me to do so, as it is my right to tell you that I think you would be more persuasive if you used a different tactic to motivate and persuade.

I'm writing letters and signing petitions, too, but I'm still not sure it will happen...and no I won't STFU about it.

you are letting your passion rule your mind. Telling those on your side to get the fuck out of the way is not a good thing. What you need to do (in my respectful opinion) is JOIN IN the argument and make your views known. This is all a new and very complex issue and we are PROCESSING it, okay?

Hang in there. Take some of that passion and come up with some reasons WHY impeachment is necessary now, what the benefits will be.

Emotion is wonderful, but right now we need to think these things through.

I actually had an exchange with Will Pitt about this. I took Will to task for being schizophrenic about the Impeachment thing, turns out that he knows in his head it's not going to happen but his heart won't let him quit trying. At least that's the way I took it. If I let my mind rule over my heart then I would have the same attitude I have been coming across. The "what's the point" attitude. If I let my head rule I'd pack up my family and move to another country, but my heart lies here and nothing is going to stop me from trying the impossible.
I notice people are wanting me to "debate" with them. There is nothing to debate. Bush broke the law he needs to be impeached. Period. If you don't want to get involved in the attempt to remove the Neo-Cons from power fine, but don't attack people who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. And thats what I'm seeing, onenote took it personally because he/she was the last person I responded to in another thread about this but this thread wasn't meant for him/her. It was meant for me.

I thought you were just reading threads and exploded.

I've decided that impeachment is not a good thing for us politically but morals are not always politically expedient, so I'm behind action right now.

I do worry about it, however. I wish they could impeach the VP at the same time.

Hehe... which is why when I replied to you I was a little more um... coherent!

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I'm sure when we finally win you'll be happy to get in there and share the credit. Even though you sat on your ass whining.

Look closely...



Do any of these people look like they've never seen a fuckin' petition? Do these people look like they give a shit about your email? They want you to vote for them and give them money--they're aren't interested in what you have to say.

Now as far as doing enough...

YOU'VE already did enough--you've got these people elected.
What now? You gonna tell them something about Bush, they don't know?

They're smarter than you...see they KNOW you ain't voting Republican and so they GOT your vote regardless of what you want.

Let's face it--impeachment is a nuke and NO career politician is going to drop it on one of their collegues for fear that it might happen to them.

It's Christmas time...this latest Bush outrage will simply be in a month's time Net fodder duly bookmarked by the faithful.

PS "share the credit"
oh does this include sharing all the Zell Millers and Joe Liebermans or should I thank your hardwork for that...

I vote independant. I vote for the person not the party. Not one person on that pic has my vote. And if you think I helped Miller or Lieberman, you don't know what you are talking about. I have been railing against them from day one. You think these people are smarter than me? I fucking seriously doubt it. I knew Bush was lying about WMD's. And I had no "intelligence" to go on. And while those people in your pic may not give a shit about my e-mails, many people I have written to do. I have recieved many personal replies from politicans I have written to. Thanking me for my support and involvement. It's sad that you are so jaded you have just given up, but I do thank you for proving my point over and over with your replies.

You miss the point. These Dem Capitol Hill guys know what's going on fer sure. They won't drop a dime for Impeachment if they know the people are not behind them. That is why it's important for ALL those who possibly can to TELL the reps and sens how they feel. If they see it's a national movement, it WILL happen.

If we sit around and poo poo the idea before it ever has a chance to materialize like you have just misread our fire and passion, then we ARE fooling ourselves.

Especially the nay sayers like yourself.

It's the people you elected, remember? Walleye's rant would be moot, IF democrats starting showing some backbone. They don't need a petition to tell them how to defend the Constitution.

Are you seriously thinking that members of Congress are that misinformed and are in need of MORE people power? Good guys like Feingold have been out there all alone for too long.

You don't need to tell them anything...they already know and they ain't doing a damn thing.

So you go tell them again...ok

OR you can say enough is enough...pick this issue as a national movement and tell them, gut check time, or pick troop withdrawal or any number of outrageous acts on the part of Bush
(hell two weeks go I was reading all about how Bush should be impeached for commenting on the Delay indictments, while refusing comment on Rove and Scooter, 'because it's before the courts')

Check this link for what is being passed off as a WH press conference? Can't blame the Press or the coverage...they are asking tough questions now.

I don't think it really is Bush anymore (anyone here under the impression tht Bush isn't impeachable), or Fox News...it's the OTHER branches that must start doing their job and stop looking for 'timing'


What's the worst that will happen? Lose another election

Impeachment just may NOT happen if people don't start believing in it!

I can't believe the attitudes on this website. It almost seems like the DU members would rather nitpick about Condi and what Fitzgerald is saying rather than actually WORKING towards getting rid of this GWButthole. I mean, Condi and Fitzgerald are important, but the REAL challenge involves Impeachment and / or Resignation. Demo's complacency makes for sheep and cattle happy in their 2nd class status, NOT concerned and energized citizens interested in the welfare of their country.

If you want to contact me or buddy me or whatever, I will join you at any time online here to work to remove this alcoholic Chimp from our WH. I'm sick of his shit to the point that I would do EVERYTHING legal and moral in getting his Crawford Ass sent back there for good. --- SushiFan

president. We nitpick between writing LTTE and to our congresspeople. We discuss current events between phone calls to our senators and representatives. We converse about how things could be between our local dem meetings and standing out on the corner with a "impeach bush" sign getting flipped off by right wingers. You have no idea what you are talking about when you are talking about DUers.

we are not talking about every DU'er, in fact I made sure to give a shout out to all those who are actually working towards an end. We are talking about the defeatist "what's the point attitude".

I haven't seen one post with a "what's the point attitude" and I read here for hours every day.

Maybe there should be a "I'm going to lecture you now" icon for those of us that would love to put these lecture posts on ignore.

You did give a shout out to DUers who are doing things...I am one of those. You are lecturing those of us who aren't sure impeachment can be a reality...I am one of those, too.

who are shitting on Du'ers who even bother to try. There are a couple of those posts in here and if you go to any Impeachment thread I'm sure you will find others. Maybe you misunderstand, I'm not sure impeachment can be a reality either, but I'm going to keep trying. And if I occasionally get pissed off at the defeatist attitude well then that's my right, just like it's other peoples right to flame me for it.
Check out post 18 below, that's what I'm railing against.

and "believing in' impeachment isn't like believing in Tinkerbell. I have no problem threads discussing impeachment, but I think its important for those threads to be fora where the pros and cons of an impeachment strategy can be weighed. The pros: if it happened it would mean the public had finally recognized what a disaster chimpy has been and had risen up to defend the constitution. The cons: the chances of success at this point seem slight and the risk of alienating voters -- voters that we desparately need and that are beginning to think its time for a change -- might be turned off because, whether we like it or not, they're not quite to the point of wanting an impeachment debate as much as they want a government that isn't crony-ridden, corrupt, and incompetent. Now, its a valid point to say that if you don't push the impeachment argument, the public won't come around. But its also valid to suggest that given the numbers in the House and Senate, the risk of alienating voters isn't worth it.

onenote

and if you took this thread personally or were insulted by anything I said it was not specifically meant for you. But you see Impeachment as a debatable issue. I see no debate needed. Bush broke the law and subverted the Constitution that he swore to uphold. Impeachment doesn't need to be debated it needs to be acted upon.

Argue this and argue that. That has been the one note coming out of the Democratic Party since I don't know when, culminating in the candidacy of John "Don't Rock The Boat" Kerry last year. Dean would have been a superior choice.

This sttitude is why Dems have been out of REAL power since 1994 --- pussyfooting around the electorate. Hey, I'm the electorate, YOU are the electrorate. The electorate wants something out of the ordinary otherwise they'll stay with the Bushies as bad as they are.

It is OUR job -- YOURS AND MINE -- to get the voters MOTIVATED to want to expel this Constitution-killing junta outta the offices of power. We are here, meeting, discussing the issues, arguing back and forth. We as DUers are concerned citizens committed to the well-being of our nation.

If we don't fan the fires of the LEGAL PROCESSES of Impeachment and / or Resignation, who will do it then, our grandmothers?? Don't see me as impertinent cuz I'm not. I'm just very passionate about getting EVERYONE to share my passion in getting GWB banished or sent to jail where he belongs. He is DOWN right now. He is more vulnerable now than he ever has been. This is our time to strike back at the GOP Kool Aid. God help us if we blow this opportunity.

Issues:
1) Dem majority in at least one house of Congress;
2) enough public outrage to force Republicans to consider voting for impeachment; and
3) sufficient Dem backbone.

Over and over and over.

Whether the cowardly media, DLC types & GOP will go along with it is bedside the point.

I agree with you- kick.

and laugh at their partisan machinations which have swung around smartly and kicked them in the ass.

now they should be made to live by it.

Folks are welcome to read my view. worth it just to see the future cover of Time Magazine.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5702672&mesg_id=5702672

Even if it is likely that Bush will not get impeached, he could be forced to resign. Remember, even Nixon resigned before he was impeached.

As sad as it is too think about I dont see impeachement happening, good god, what Tipsy McDumbass did in response to Katrina was much worse than anyone had did since NIXON (I also worked on Hurricane relief in Biloxi, so know the damage to property and psyche) add to that the war, the torture, the PLAME THING, god it took all that to just make a ripple, and the Media still covered for him, and what was the story coming out after the Indictments "oh this could have been a worse week for the PREZ" lord. The media is in on it becuase thats what the corportate heads want, any talk that weakens the prez is bad for business, we missed our chance when ROVE wasnt indicted, thats when all the POST KATRINA stuff could have come to a head, now even if ROVE is indicted it becomes just another story, The one thing that couldnt save bush were the pictures coming out of the GULF (war and our gulf coast), we had a small window when there was national outrage (even the old time conservatives) but now its back to business. Look at the headlines "consumer confidence up" (up from negative 10 to negative 6?) Only the people in large numbers will bring him down and as long as he has his "I LOVE TORTURE" and "THE NSA can spy on me as long as they protect me from terrorists" base, nothing will happen. He needs to be in the mid thirties. Right now he probably has most of his 44% base back, that the moderates have deserted him wont matter, sad to say. I blame the media and kiss asses like lieberman, fuck that support the president shit, if he is doing a crappy job all around why the hell support him. The silver lining to all this tragedy and heartache is that we have a chance to run against something, while he doesnt, so if we put our efforts into 06, i think that is where we can make real strides. Bush and the right wingers wont have the luxury of running against someone they will only have thier record and thats where we win. Remember he only got 50.7% of the vote last time, so he went for polarization anyway, you cant keep that up, the outcome has been disastrous for the country, but we have them where we want them, and a full out concerted effort form us, the progressives and even DLC people will get us over the top. Think of it as an extended national primary only with diverse candidates to put on TV (CASEY, CLINTON, ANGELIDES) put it together and we can do it.

Impeaching bush will not guarantee the democratic party anything except people like yourself in the darkness of night gleefully rubbing your hands together rejoicing "we got the SOB"

News Alert: Until the party puts together a comprehensive national security initiative that the public can trust in, impeachment will never be supported by the general public. That's reality.

Even if we regain control of the house in 2006, that does not mean we can push impeachment though until we do that.

But more power to you if it floats your boat to chase the chimpster.

:eyes: Impeaching the chimp is a start. A huge one. If you think that managing to impeach this ass won't have any effect on anything then I guess you will just have to live with your little "news alerts". Here's a "news alert" for you. The republicans have no "comprehensive national security initiative" either. Actually they do. Kill anyone who isn't on "our side". You know what with a policy like that there is no way we'll ever defeat them :eyes:

"comprehensive national security initiative" simply is the result of the poll after poll after poll that tell us the general public doesn't trust the democratic party on national defense. That's a reality. National security is the # 1 concern of americans.

That's part of the problem with the rethugs being able to call anything their do "Part of the national security or defense" We have nothing to give the american public an alternative to evaluate.

To impeach the chimp the party is going to have to be able to give the people a sense of security so their congressman can be supported to move forward even if we control the house in 2006

I know that in the realm of ideologues that shit doesn't matter.

then their priorities are all fucked up. Nothing I can do about that. My #1 concern is for the welfare of my family not the security of our nation. Our nation was pretty secure till Bush took office. Clinton had a 64% approval rating even after the Impeachment hearings. And he is considered soft on defense by the right. It's not National Security thats hurting the Dems, it's lack of a spine. If we had a liberal candidate who's convictions were as strong as the Chimps we could start to regain respect and power. The problem is that some Dems seem to think that we should be moving towards the middle. Wrong. A 2 party system works because there are 2 opposing points of view and a compromise can be reached in the middle. If we are already in the middle then all compromises fall on the right.

9/11 regardless on how or why it occurred changed the world, the politics of the country and what "sells" to the public as important issues. National security sells like a ice cream on a hot summers day.

The Democratic party leadership needs to divorce itself from trying to make the war in Iraq a wedge issue. They need to position myself beyond the war and what do we need to do next to secure our country. Now that would take a spine!!!

Until the Dems leadership figure out pretty much everything falls behind national security in the american mind, we will never make the type of headway we need to to regain power.

Like I said I guess we will just have to disagree.

This Rat-Ass has done far too many evil things to our country Not to be impeached. I'm not exactly in the darkness of night, as you say, but it would feel mighty good to be able to rejoice and say "We got the SOB" and therefore will eliminate the biggest danger this country has ever known.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :woohoo:

It wants a vision for a better America that answers TO American voters, not to special interests that are increasingly owning our government. Some may not realize that their frustration of their politicians not listening to their concerns can be translated into our politicians no longer answering substantively to us with the way campaign financing works now, but with some effort and helping to explain this to them, we should be able to bring this to light to them.

Heard some congress critter candidate talking with Tony Trupiano who was filling in for Ed Schultz today that was talking about putting together a "Contract for America" style document which would be a similar plan that Gingrich put together for the Rethugs when they took over congress. Though I hated that "Contract ON America" then, the idea of getting people to commit to an agenda that everyone can buy into is a good one. There are more areas than just security. There is the economy, jobs, health care, social security, pulling out of the war, etc. where one could build a list of consensus issues and those supported by the American people.

And it is our job to help get impeachment on that list and how we want to pursue it so that it doesn't sound just like political gamesmanship, but a well thought out statement of facts of what this president (and vice president) have done that warrants this sort of action, that a majority of Americans can subscribe to, and emphasize ways to keep it from destroying our country and how we can make it work for us to construct a more accountable and properly functioning body in the future that works together both internally and internationally.

If we can sell the public on impeachment, either the Rethugs in office will have to jump on board with that action or else risk getting thrown out of office in 2006. If they are a part of the solution, then we can emphasize that is the best way to build more bipartisan efforts towards a stable and responsible government in the future, and one where we perhaps don't need to go so far as putting folks like Bush in prison, which will likely happen if they don't come on board and Democrats sweep into majority control of both congressional houses.

Impeachment might not ACTUALLY happen before 2006. That it does or doesn't happen isn't a win or a loss for us. What IS a win is to make sure that the public buys into the idea of impeachment before the 2006 elections. That is what ultimately will help drive voters to vote in a strong Democratic majority in 2006, and ultimately for things to get fixed in 2007, one way or the other.

Wow, a cogent and reasonable post about impeachment.

Vision is the key word.

I sound like a GOP because I point out the current political strategy employed by the party leadership is lacking a critical aspect that poll after poll tell us is missing???

The american public perceives us as weak on national defense???

Why would a run of the mill average joe american support his congressman in impeachment hearings if they don't trust what will happen after the chimp is removed from office concerning national security.

Do you honestly think the GOP would not make that a talking point???

Do you???

Easy as pie.

Go walldude, go! I do not understand why many here chose to go way out of their way to spread negativity by actually starting threads about how impossible it is to bring * to justice. What if Cindy Sheehan had simply buried her sorrow in a never ending bottle of bourbon? We wouldn't have had one of the most wonderful grassroots spokespersons against this illegal war. I say we should all strive to emulate Cindy, rather than the quaking scaredey cats of the DLC ilk.
:yourock:

and
so, ehem, cough cough
he would be the president if bush was impeached

And we keep going until NO MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S PROFIT.

mainstream media so when all these other whistleblowers keep taking the lid off some more pandora's boxes, we got the word all greased up and ready to go.

that there are people on the inside who really want Bush out. They keep giving us stuff to go on and we keep letting it drop. Then we get people who let it drop and then bitch because some of out here don't want to let it drop. The problem is there aren't enough of us screaming and I finally got fed up with people who are not only not screaming but who have the nerve to challange those of us who are.

even us nut cases need a little Harry Potter once in awhile. I promise to respond to any more wonderful flames that come in when I get back in a few hours...

Apparently I'm not the only one who is pissed:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5701703

...to get Bush impeached, but we still have to try. So I am not one of the individuals saying that we should give up. If enough people got off their butts & tried to make impeachment happen, who knows? We might just succeed. But if everyone just moans & groans, forget it. We've lost.

Tammy

While discussion about possible impeachment and trial is a valid topic for discussion; dicussion is the key word.

This thread, in it's form has become Flamebait.

Thank you for your understanding.