What are you going to do about retirement? Got a plan?

Are you saving in a 401k? Are you lucky enough to have a pension or an inheritance coming? got a lot of equity in your home that you will sell and move to a cheaper area?

Seriously, I am saving on a 401K, but I don't see that it's growing fast enough to handle my needs.

most likely moving to a small place in a cheaper area so at least there are a few years before food stamps.

And I made/make good money - but there are many years still on the mortgage yielding a home I doubt I can afford post-retirement.

only the good die young

Redstone

I have read articles about my generation being the first not to be financially better off than their parents were. I feel like we will be working until we are unable to or die.

If I don't check out early, it could get ugly!

I have no savings, no property worth anything, and already live in an area of low prices-and equally low wages. But my grandfather worked until he was over 70, so I guess I can.

four years ago.

I'm off to Kauai..had it with these Northeast winters and the high price of heat. I'd rather deal with the Price of Paradise.

38 here and I don't expect to see Social Security. I will use my sisters idea of working until you are six feet under.

I lost pretty much everything since 2003. Had to cash in all investments (and pay early-withdrawal penalties and ungodly taxes) when I divorced in late 2005. I doubt now that I'll live long enough to retire, but if I do, it will be as a homeless insane ranting old scary dude, so it won't last long.

One of the remaining defined-benefits pensions (If it's still there in about 5 years)

My defined pension (county govt.) with SS and 401/457k should do it. I live simply, and have been blessed with good health; my needs are not much.

a401K that will not have nearly enough $$ in it; and SS. And a paid-off house. But I have VERY simple needs and I feel that will be enough to get by.

If you have those in hand, you can do just fine.

We plan to unload this beast of ours when my husband retires, and pay cash for a smaller manufactured home. With our savings, his 401-k and my measly pension (only 10 yrs in the union), we should be ok. Our needs are not all that much, and we don't spend extravagantly.

What we will probably do though, is to claim the tax-free exemption for us oldies when we sell the beast, and have our sons "buy" our retirement home for us.. That way they will own it already, so that when we croak, it will already be theirs.

We have a friend who actually makes more now than when he worked.

1. military pension
2. post office pension
3. ss
4. wife's military pension
5. wife's post office pension
6. wife's ss

He works for a corporation most think is the anti-Christ, and with 25 years of service, in a few years, he'll/we'll have pension or lump sum, savings program, medical, dental, eyeglass, and mental health benefits, and eventually, social security.

He hung in, he was lucky enough not to be downsized, and the company is solvent enough to make good on promises.

under the state teacher's retirement system. If it holds out, I'll be o.k.

After the Boomers destroy Social Security and Medicare and bankrupt the country, I'll just spend the rest of my life working.

I'll have a really big (by today's standards) portfolio of savings, stocks, and shit in my life insurance, 401(k)s, brokerage accounts, and other savings, but they won't mean shit.

Sure it won't be there if we keep saying that and acting as though it is a promise that can be broken.
Consider the hundreds of billions of dollars that were made available for Bush's romp in Iraq...

No, I demand that SS live up to its committment. We CAN afford it.

C) I am not planning my retirement on getting anything from Social Security, just to be safe. I will provide for myself to the best of my ability, instead of expecting the government to supply my every need - partly because it's the moral choice, partly because I don't think the country can afford to dole out money hand over fist taking care of everyone forever. The numbers (in terms of upcoming generations, potential earning ability of the upcoming generations versus the huge number of 'retired' or elderly, the massive American debt, trade imbalances, and inflation) just aren't there, unless this country does a drastic overhaul of our system (including a drastic reduction in military spending). We're entering into a non-sustainable cash outflow versus inflow time, that will exponentially spiral out of control into catastrophic failure, until we, as a people, open our eyes and make some hard but necessary choices about how we tax, how much we tax, and how we spend our taxes.

Last time I checked inflation wasn't all that bad. But I can't get past the part where "...Boomers destroy Social Security and Medicare and bankrupt the country...". I can't resist guessing what your "...hard but necessary choices..." could include. Drastic reductions in Social Security, Medicare, and other social program spending, while cutting taxes mostly for the rich? Prosperity would then trickle down from the rich, and the resulting economic boom would more than make up for the lost government revenues?

In addition to paying extra payroll taxes all our lives to build up the Social Security trust fund and not being eligible for full Social Security until age 66 or older, I'm sure you know of more sacrifices we Boomers can make so that you can keep more of 'your money'.

No, by "hard and neccessary choices" I mean a more equitable tax system that taxes the richer more than the poorer... but also ending the pork spending, and ending the rapid rise of new spending that we get every year - it's great having museums and park lands, historic landmarks, and stuff like that, but every year we add more, which adds to the burden. At some point, we have to stop or our taxes will eventually have to be very high.

Every new road we build adds to our tax burden by increasing the amount we have to take care of, fix, shovel, and maintain.

Every new bridge does the same.

Every traffic light, every street light, every prison, every new government building, every new government department... each one by itself not much of a burden, but over time it's mushrooming and cumulative.

We need to make hard decisions (hard for Americans, that is) about no incarcerating so many people, using treatment instead of prison, and reducing our prison population.

We need to make hard decisions about eliminating the bloated and wasteful middle management level of our educational system - more money to schools, no money to pencil-necked assholes working in a giant "school system" building downtown.

We may have to give up some programs that we like and support, but which we must at some point realize are costing us too much money - money that we can't afford.

We'll have to make the gard decision to stop spending in deficits.

I think we'll even have to make the hard decision to spend less than we take in in taxes, and pay off more of our debt with the savings.

The generations after the Boomers are smaller, so paying for what we have become acccustomed to in this country along with supporting the retired boomers is gonna be a very difficult thing. Add in to that all the problems we have such as our national debt and other things I pointed out before, and we're in for a difficult future unless we rethink how we run our economy and our government.

There is no problem with current spending levels, but rather with our spending choices. Federal spending, as a percentage of GDP, is running at about 20% - close to where it has been since WWII.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/outlays-per-gdp.php

And taxes are not historically high either.


http://www.cbpp.org/4-10-06tax4.htm

Further, the US tax burden is low relative to other industrialized countries.


http://www.urban.org/publications/1000976.html

But I share your concern about current deficits and the national debt. We were in a good position to pay off our national debt after Truman, Ike, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, and Carter all did their part to pay it down. But along came Saint Ronnie of Reagan and Poppy to run it right back up, almost to where it was at the end of WWII. Clinton did his part and more to turn that around, but then Junior maxed the national credit cards out again.

So how could it be that we are running up these deficits when Publicans spend only slightly more than Democrats? Tax cuts for the rich, that's why. Publicans cut taxes for their cronies, that's for sure, but they actually increase spending more than Democrats do.

The facts show that we need to make some changes in how our tax burden is shared: Higher income taxes for rich people and corporations would seem the most appropriate first step. And our spending choices need a hard look. You mentioned reductions in our domestic and social programs, but not the most obvious candidate for fiscal accountability - our out-of-control military spending. Eliminating Junior's Maginot line in the sky and his adventure in Iraq would improve our bottom line in a tangible way.

Hidden amongst other things, though, so easy to miss.

It's pretty sad to think about how much the rightwing decries every other country, especially the "barbaric" ones and laughs at the other 'civilized countries', and yet, amongst the civilized, we spend way, way, way more on military; we allow execution of criminals; we have a high infant mortality rate; we are the only ones without healthcare; our public education system is the shits; we have no viable environmental policy; we reneged on the Kyoto protocol; we reneged on the Geneva Convention; and so on...

The countries that we most look like are the very ones that the reichwing labels as "evil" and "freedom hating" and "unchristian".

Anyway, that was a tangent not totally relevant to the discussion at hand... but somewhat relevant.

It's also funny how they call the Democrats, who look at the tax income and say "Okay, that's all we can spend", fiscally irresponsible. And, even worse, the media let them get away with it.

I already collected Social Security--from my father's death (when I was 4 years old) into my college years. (Actually, my Mom got the checks; but she contributed plenty to me.)

And I'll get more SS, eventually. But the Republicans say it will fail. And lots of people listen to them.

;)

....and never once looked back.

Railroad Retirement pays the freight now.

22% of wages goes into defined contribution. Lump sum payment upon retirement or death (full amount payable to assigned survivor(s). Retirement any time after 55. Proud to be union.

There might be union jobs out there.

I have a pension plan and savings, and I just hope I can get to enjoy it before I'm too old and decrepit to travel.

at 52. Hubby, 4 yrs ago - also at 52. Neither have 'pensions' or any government help - I was self employed. We did save a lot and invested (mostly) wisely.

Neither inherited anything (my dad was a welder - mum cleaned a doctor's house), no trust funds, no hand outs. We live well, have 2 homes (used to be 3) and go to Paris for a month each year.

It can be done - we know, we did it.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

...men. (sigh)

Where the hell do you get off calling me names? How the fuck do you know which illnesses, disabilities or challenges we have or have not faced?

Some people just bounce back up and work their fucking tushes off, instead of whining and resenting others successes. We earned this retirement, nobody gave us anything. Am I proud of that? You bet your ass I am.

you should not be ashamed of your accomplishments, and i didnt see you as being snobbish

I'll likely be homeless when I retire. But I do know some nice beaches to be homeless on.

... his/her homes?

rent free in the cottage on our land I'm afraid. The funky log house is ours and our daughter lives in our SF home (it's quite small).

But you are very welcome to bring a camper or tent and stay on our land - we had someone doing that last year too. Just chip in for electric now and again.

You see, we do share as much as we can - we're Liberals (I'm a socialist) after all.

:hi:

men. :thumbsup:

Nothing wrong with independence. Not everyone can do it...but if you did, congratulations on a job well done.

contaminates the vessel which contains it. That is painfully obvious in the nasty response(s) that a few people have had here. I assume that your position is based upon your efforts, and not from stealing from those who are apparently jealous of you.

I retired in my mid-40s. I'm amazed at some of the stupid things people say to or ask me on those rare instances when I go out in public.

For many of the reasons you've said.

It sounds like you made good choices. Too few people do that.

I have a decent portfolio, balanced between medium-risk and low-risk investments. I also have the benefit of my military retirement going into the investment pool, while I work at my "second" career and consider going into business for myself someday. I have credit life insurance on my mortgage, and I own everything else free and clear.

It's all about the choices we make. I chose a military career, and chose to get my degree while I was in the service. I choose to live simply now. I have a modest, but comfortable house on five acres with a pond and trees. I drive a ten year old truck and ride a 23 year old motorcycle. I don't buy all new stuff just because it's new and shiny. Yet, I want for nothing.

If I make it to retirement at 58, or end up with a disabling condition, I'll live comfortably for as long as I have. If I don't live that long, my son and the other people I love will be provided for.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

They choose to lose everything they own in a hurricane. They choose to get injured in accidents and become paralyzed. They choose to get Parkinsons, MS, cancer. They choose mental illness. They choose to not have IQ's high enough to go to college. Riiight.

I don't turn the other cheek either and so a big fat ignore for you too.

I left school in England at 16 and started working 2 days later - because my parents needed me too. I arrived in the States (Houston) with nothing but 2 suitcases of clothes/books and a job offer in 1979.

We were both previously wiped out by divorces and 4 years ago my mother in law, sister in law and myself were all diagnosed with cancer within 8 months of each other. My MIL died. SIL and I are still here.

And, while I haven't been in a hurricane, I have been through many earthquakes. One of which (1989), cost us $50,000 in uninsured repairs.

Next?

No wonder you can't save anything for retirement!

}(

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

from a lawsuit of a Bar for a handicap violation? You even mentioned the new name of the Bar after you took possession. You should be set for life.

You've got me way mixed up with somebody else. I haven't had a drink in over 20 years.

together with some luck and lots and lots of determination.

While our friends were all buying 'executive' gated homes here in silicon valley, we chose to live in a blue collar neighborhood and fixed up a run down house. They traded in their Lexuses (Lexii?) and Beemers every two years, my husband drove his Ford Escort until it literally died with 235k on the clock - then bought another used one. We had nice vacations and ate out, but I scorned jewelry and 'designer' labels. We bought more houses, fixed and flipped them and then got into small residential complexes - all before the last boom - that's where the luck came in.

My husband has a PHD in Physics and worked in silicon valley all his life - travelled a lot, so we have gazillions of 'miles'. I left school at 16 and worked hard all of mine. I opened my own business with $30k back in 1994 and within 2 years it was billing $3 mil a year with 4 employees- took a hit during the 'dot com' bust, but turned it around again and sold it 2 years ago. We bought a home on Vanouver Island before the Canadian boom and it's a very funky log house on 10, very rural, oceanfront acres. We have no need for 'clothes' up there - just jeans, jackets and boots and an old pickup truck. We have chickens and goats and grow veggies and fruit. Our other home is in San Francisco.

We live well but, as I said 'designer' is not in my vocabulary. I'd much rather go on a trip than bother with any jewelry - I have a good watch and my wedding ring.

We've had our share of 'hard times' and heartbreaks - no-one is immune - but we also had a plan and stuck with it. We knew what we had to do to get where we wanted to be and we did it to the best of our ability. Actually we planned on retiring at 50 and were just a couple of years out.

I wish you all the best in your retirement - you'll get there and you'll love it. It's all it's cracked up to be.

"Retirement" won't be an option for many -- health insurance will be too big of a problem.

Please don't give people false hope.

But some of it is luck. Such as, having good health and not developing a disability or having some bad accident.

people who are fortunate to have made good financial decisions. Nothing wrong with that!

and yet some accuse you of being snobbish. I guess if you were successful it takes away from them somehow.

WTF is with that?

That's just me. But it's sad that society is not set up to provide for its people. Sad to say that in the 21st century.

We are spending $122K every minute in Iraq but we refuse to provide for our own people.

Because even on this site people think that if we make life easy people will become lazy.

n/t

I have a certain product in mind, combined electronic hardware and software device. The important thing is manufacturing something where I can make something from raw materials instead of just being a reseller or service provider. Hopefully I can keep as much of the production as possible in the U.S. I've been working on it for 3 years now and I'm working on the final touches now. I'm hoping to have a product in a couple months, then I can start marketing it.

I would be more specific, but I can't be sure what I'm selling until it's done. Until then the final product idea could change.

:-)

If only one of those babies hits, I am set for life. :-)

Send your donations to me, and I'll pass them on to the businessmen!

I cant hardly wait.

...actually sounds a better than working 60 hours a week and having nothing to show for it.

He retired with 30 years (civil service, municipal gov't) and jumped right back into another municipal job, which he'll be able to retire from in Sept. 2009, with 10 years in. Me, I'm on SSDI and trying to save back thru an IRA (turned over from a 401K). If something "happens" to him, I'll get 60% of his first pension through my life.

Because I have a "severe" disability, SSDI was the way to go for us because of the national health care situation. We didn't want to be stuck without a safety net for my health care. It sucks, but sometimes it's more beneficial for disabled persons to apply for benefits than it it is to try to work, as the health care is guaranteed. The SSDI helps us pay bills that I used to be able to pay for when I was working, but they come nowhere near to what I was making in salary. My eligibility for Medicare enables us to breathe a little easier...

Oh, if only they would open up Medicare up to the uninsured and the under-insured, or go to a universal plan...

At this rate we won't have a decent retirement. Hubby is working his ass off to pay for his truck in the next few years so that way we can put more away for retirement. He doesn't want to put that extra money into a 401K because he doesn't trust that we'll get much out of it. He wants it to go in a regular savings account.

I'm not so sure about that because it's too easy to dive into. I'm thinking of CDs.

That allows your account to grow faster.

Sure, it's taxed when you withdraw it, but most of us will be in a lower tax bracket when we retire...so it makes sense to keep it tax-deferred while we're at a higher tax rate.

(knock on wood).

Husband will get a county govt pension. Plus there's SS (not really banking on that here) and some modest savings. I farm so I personally have no "real" savings but the property has wildly escalated in value (there's a mega mall going up within a mile of our farm and the subdivisions surround us :puke: ). We also own a very modest house that we rent - that would be sold and that $$ will go towards retirement (anyone who owns rental properties will understand why old timers shouldn't try to keep the rental property when they can't maintain it - that's why it would be sold).

Our property is basically our ticket to a good retirement. We've already discussed selling out and moving to a more cost effective area, banking the difference between the sale of the property and the cost of the new property to further ensure financial safety.

We'll continue breeding and selling horses till we die, planting some veggies to sell roadside (we also run an organic produce stand) even if it goes to a very minimal level. I guess we love farming - we don't see ourselves as ever really "retiring". Even if we fall on hard times healthwise, we'll rent the land and operation until we are either back on our feet or just live on the rental income until we die.

That would be at about 50 or 55 - another 25 years or so out. We are maxing out our 401ks and we both have IRAs. We own a duplex which we occupy half of. We are keeping our eyes open for another plex and maybe another after that. Eventually we want a condo in a high rise for ourselves (we figure the rental properties will provide all the yard and maintenance work that we can handle). Don't know if this approach will do the trick for us but we don't trust stocks alone to make it happen. There is a lot to be said for owning real estate. And if we have to keep working into our sixties, it's not the end of the world. We'll probably do that part time anyway. But the goal is to not have to work if we don't want to.

and we started later than you (in our 30's). We now own a 2x4plex's and a duplex- (self managed). We also maxed our 401k's/SEPIRA's but won't be touching those for another few years. We aimed at 50 and made it by 52. You are doing really well, with a little luck and a lot of grit you'll realize your dream. Good for you.

Never trusted the stockmarket. He fought tooth and nail not to sell anything before he died -- and did. And handed it on to us. We're very lucky.

Being a landlord is a pain though. We are not really cut out for it. But looking at the long term, we figure if the rents
cover or almost cover everything including the services of a management company then it's worth it. Over 20 or 30 years we think real estate will perform pretty well. We are looking for appreciation and deductions not income. Hell, I don't know really. Just trying to take care of ourselves.

It was a pain in the butt for dear old dad as well. You're right about stocks; I own them, too. But I do put my money in all sorts of places. Too many folks believe the market will make them rich. And the ones I know are all amateurs.

The retirement benefits have been cut over time. They changed the pension to a cash balance plan which is worth much less. Next year, they're stopping contributions to the cash balance plan and dropping the lump sum for each additional year worked (on the theory that our life expectancy is decreasing and less money will be needeed).

As far as 401k's, I contribute 6% of my paycheck. I could have invested more aggressively during the 90s, but I didn't lose anything in the crash. Plus there's a company match. I lost some money (total $40k) investing in a friend's startup company and to a crooked broker. But there's still enough there to make a difference.

I signed my house over as part of a divorce settlement, and didn't buy again before the real estate boom. So no home equity. However, I've bought five very cheap rental properties in Baltimore. They have been an education and a nightmare, and I've yet to get positive cash flow, but it's more than made up for by property appreciation. So that's another piece.

There's social security, which I don't think will go away completely. Plus it would be nice to keep doing something that's compensated, even if the pay is not that high. If I get remarried, whatever my future spouse has is part of the mix.

I took a more practical career partly because I wanted a stable paycheck and retirement security. There are few guarantees nowdays. But among those multiple sources, there should be enough to make ends meet for retirement.

I was 2 months shy of my 55th birthday when I retired. I took my pension lump sum, 401(k), and Roth IRAs and ran with them. My wife is still working as a school teacher, but doesn't have to. We have been lucky, and are enjoying a secure but simple retirement.

Pay close attention to what your employer is doing with your pension lump sum and retiree medical. You might decide it's prudent to retire before January 2008 when more 'enhancements' make your benefits even more 'competitive'. If you want to know more, PM me.

Social Security is not going away completely, and really doesn't have a serious problem. That's mostly hype from Junior and his cronies, who want to convince us there is a chrisis so that we will go along with their 'reform' plan - which is to gut the program in the name of saving it. The simple truth is, Social Security will be just fine until 2040 or so (based on very conservitve estimates) if we make no changes at all - and even at that it will be able to pay 70% of its obligations. And the shortfall could be easily rectified without hurting anyone seriously.

The only real danger to Social Security is from the Publicans who hate the program and want to destroy it - and from those of us who have bought into their hype. Now that we Democrats have won control of Congress, I believe that danger has been at least reduced and perhaps eliminated.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

>>
Pay close attention to what your employer is doing with your pension lump sum and retiree medical. You might decide it's prudent to retire before January 2008 when more 'enhancements' make your benefits even more 'competitive'. If you want to know more, PM me.
>>

Yes, it will be interesting.

And you are absolutely correct about retiree medical. Even after you are retired, the rules can change.

After getting laid off from my mid-management job three years ago, we drastically reduced the complexity of our lives. Our standard of living is down, but our quality of life is up. Ad hoc/freelance work can be fun. I guess I'm retired, because this is what I envision for retirement.... except with fewer school conferences. ;)

We're building a house, and the banker says that when complete it'll be worth quite a bit more more than my original estimate. Sweat equity pays off, I guess. There's a strong demand for contractors in my area, I'm considering doing that when the house is complete.

During my working life, I always saved 20% in a 401k. Some ups and downs, but fortunately more of the former.:thumbsup:

The biggest risks are college and health insurance for the future.

There are two ways to prepare for retirement; save money or adjust expenses. Don't neglect the latter. I recommend the book "your money or your life". It was an epiphany for me.

I hesitated to reply to this because it's easy for one who is optimistic to come off as smug. Absent catastrophe, I anticipate being comfortable, mostly because our needs and wants are pretty modest.

>The biggest risks are college and health insurance for the future.

I don't see how anyone can retire prior to age 65 -- the health insurance situation is too risky. And even if you are Medicare-eligible, Medicare is in terrible financial shape.

Health insurance is the biggie.

I remember reading a WSJ article about a year-and-a-half to two years ago that talked about the number of millionaires in their late 50s - early 60s who are holding onto their corporate jobs just for the health insurance.

... the $1500 deductible was satisfied with one phone call over a three-hour period.

It turns out it was just dehydration, an expensive damn lesson. $500/hour! :hurts:

Ambulances are loud inside.

The other family members are taken care of through better insurance vehicles.

if they have pre-existing conditions.

through your employer. Many don't offer it, as I'm sure you all know.

And even if you have it today, it could be gone tomorrow.

I am amazed at the number of retired people with retiree medical insurance who think they are OK. A lot of people don't seem to understand that corporations are reducing/eliminating their retiree coverage. And unless you have a union contract, you have very little (if any) protection from corporations reneging on their promises to provide health care.

Sell everything we own and move to some third world country?

six years ago we had some prospects, but the Bush years have pretty much wiped all of them out.

Yes, I've got a 410k, yes I expect to get "some" $$$ from SS. But at the end of the day, taking control of how your savings works for you is ultimately in your hands.... unless of course you had rather trust some fund manager to "maybe" deliver 5-7% y-y.

MZr7

I've got a minuscule 401k. It won't keep me. Social security won't be there when I reach the age of retirement. George Bush wants to gut it. I've tried to save, but right now I need every penny I earn to pay the bills in the here and now, it doesn't leave much to set aside for later.

..apart from the government pissing away the SS fund that is. You get the government pension no matter what (well, that's the theory). There are many people, who don't need a government SS check, but will get it anyway until all the $$ are gone.

Yes, I know we all paid into it, but I paid/pay gazillions in taxes too and never saw much of a return on that. So why not a 'means' test of some sort, that kicks those with say $100k plus 'unearned' income, out of the feeding trough? If their income drops below that, due to low interest rates or whatever, then they qualify again.

SS should be for there for those that need it - not pocket money for those that don't.

Means test Social Security and you kill it off.

Listen to Ted Kennedy.

You are payinig now for your parents and that generation that came before you.

As long as the system isn't raided (like * did) it works until almost forever.

When you retire, the kids that around now will pay for you.

It's a good system. It's better than, say, taking a bunch of money and going to Vegas and throwing it on the crap table. That's what the repukes want us to do. Take our money and buoy up the stock market. The DJ is not much better than gambling.

SS is a plan, and it works. Leave it alone.

BTW, I have no problem with Bill Gates or Warren Buffett getting SS benefits. They're a part of the system and should be eligible.

=L

A family friend, who lived to be nearly a hundred, bought land in the early 20s in Texas, back when you could still get the oil rights. She was making 250k a year and had never worked a day in her life (her husband owned the only car dealership in town for many years even before the oil money), and when they started sending her a check for Social Security, she said it "just wasn't fair to all the people who were poor like she'd been when she was young." Said she didn't want the check, and had to FORCE them not to mail her any money.

So I'm good with having a cut-off for Social Security benefits. It's just like a progressive income tax. Sure, you pay into it your whole life, but if you were rich enough to be making 100k a year in retirement, you probably never missed that tax money much, and other people need it a lot more now.

How was your strawman entitled to Social Security income if she never worked a day in her life? You don't pay Social Security tax on investment income - or on income from pension plans, unemployment benefits, sick pay, or alimony payments. And didn't she have to sign up to start receiving the checks that she didn't want?

You and others have fallen for the right wingers' Chicken Little ploy. Entitlements don't need to be cut. Social Security is just fine. By extremely conservative (deceptively so IMO) estimate, Social Security will be able to meet all current obligation until 2040 if nothing is changed - and will be able to sustain 70% of all payments after that. Until recently the projected date was 2048.

The average life expectancy of a 65 year old is 18.4 more years, which means most of us who have reached age 65 can expect to live until we are about 83.4 years old. Boomers were born between 1943 and 1960, making us between 46 and 63 years old today. By 2040 Boomers will be between 80 and 97 years of age. Most of us Boomers will be dead by the time the projected shortfall occurs, if it ever actually does.

This is all smoke and mirrors to provide cover for defaulting on the treasury bonds that the Social Security trust fund is holding.

not Social Security.

But the right wingers are doing everything they can to default on Social Security's treasury bonds, which the general fund is going to have to start paying in 2018. That's really what all this Social Security hype is about.

What we need to do with healthcare is just make everybody eligible for Medicare. We could do that without any additional overall cost by eliminating the private insurance companies and the middleman costs that are associated with them.

It sure beats the other options like cutting benefits or raising the retirement age. Think of it like an insurance policy. If you retire wealthy and you don't need it, what's wrong with that? What you have put in can help others less fortunate, what wealthy person would have issues with that? I wouldn't.

If you put in a means test, the people who don't qualify because they make too much will think of it as a welfare system. Consequently, they won't want to contribute to something from which they won't benefit.

Already retired from one career.

(Ironically, all my pension checks are from FOX, Newscorp, as in Fox Entertainment Division.) The predators came by (Rupert) and bought my company. After a few years, I took early retirement.

Now, I've embarked on another career and I am so happy, I can't tell you.

What am I planning?

To work until I drop. Or work until my knees give out. All that.

I love what I do, and they'll have to tear the DV cam from my cold dead hands before I'll stop.

I have a stagnant 401K from aforesaid Newscorp, medical from FOX, and a small pension.

AND I feel like a lucky person.

If you are not covered by a union contract, you're screwed, right?

It is VERY scary.

when you're old.

:sarcasm:

I know people who are in the process of being screwed over by their "wonderful" children at this very moment.

we are managing on Hubby's SSDI (renal failure). Cashed out everything after he was laid off from WorldCom and couldn't find another job. Sold the house and moved to cheaper area. Then his health went downhill. Just went through Ch. 7 this summer. So, no, there will be no "retirement" for Hubby; if he survives to age 65 he will be lucky. As for me, if I earn too much. he will lose Medicaid. Saving at our income level is not possible.

The future is cloudy, we live one day at a time.

I installed carpet and other floor coverings for 30 years. The union died long before I came along.
I made basically the same per square yard when I stopped as when I started. Subcontract No befefits.

Now I'm 51, retred on SSI $603/mo beccause my spine finally gave out in 00 just after I bought my first
house. Wife (since 99) bailed out in 02 when we lost the house and filed Chapter 7. took 3 years to get
SSI. I took the back money I got and bought a 1978 28 ft sailboat. I'm living in it on a friend's farm
in the process of rebuilding it (slow been at it a year) rent free but friends wife wants me gone so I'll be back in
the water in spring one way or another Marina rent is $200/mo but I don't know how i'll manage. I'm
spending all I get for food gas ect now.

I don't wish bad for those folks who have it better than me, But I wish the SSI payments could go up
at least to poverty level (27/day I'm at 20.10/day now)

SSI pay should at least be poverty level

"Workers currently pay Social Security taxes on the first $90,000 of their wages. Some people have suggested that the cap be raised or even eliminated altogether. The result would be the largest tax increase in U.S. history, $541 billion in new taxes over the first five years alone..."

http://www.socialsecurity.org/reformandyou/faqs.html#5

This punished the middle class and would be rabidly popular if the Dems eliminate the tax contribution cap. PLUS! Social Security would be solid as a rock under Al Gore's lock.

if I didn't have that I'd be really screwed.

that she will not be getting a windfall after we die.

We're doing a 'Warren Buffet' (though with .0000001% of his assets) and like him, don't believe in inherited wealth. We love her very much, but if she wants to be wealthy, she can work her ass off, like we did.

She's been working since high school, all the way through college and now, at 25 works at Genentec. She lives at our San Francisco home and pays rent and her own bills - ok, so we are putting the rent away for a downpayment when she decides to buy, but she doesn't know that.

She's already socking money away in a 401k for her retirement fund, knows how to live to a budget but still has a good time - we are proud of her for it.

I don't begrudge you yours though, spend it wisely but enjoy it.

too many people have gone through large periods of unemployment. That really ruins your savings plans. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. 80% of small businesses fail within five years.

Stable income stream means ability to budget and from a good budget you can save. Remember 10% of the men ages 30-55 are not working. Most people didnt get in financial trouble from frivolousness or lack of working hard. The major cause for bankrupcy is health care costs. Accusing folks of frivolity is like hitting welfare for the poor because of a small number of scam artists.

"too many people have gone through large periods of unemployment."

who left me the inheritance worked very hard for it and she did without many things. I feel honored that she trusted me with all that she worked so hard for. I feel very responsible for using it the right way and want to invest it wisely so I have enough to use for my expenses and to do good meaningful things with. I have no immediate family to leave it to so when I'm gone all of it will go to some worthy causes.

Warren Buffett has $36 billion.

And .0000001% of $36 billion is $36.

Sorry but I just had to run the math!

And when I get to a point where I can afford it I'll start putting away 20%. While I've been paying into Social Security for 24 years and counting I have little hope that it will be there when I finally retire, so I'm putting away everything I can on my own (which isn't easy on a human service salary).

We also have independent investments, Roth IRA, etc. Plus, by the time we retire, our fruit orchards will be kicking ass, thus providing a solid supplemental income. Also by the time we retire, we will be energy self sufficient via a windmill and biodiesel production. Thus, with no electric bill, no mortage, lowered fuel costs, lowered food costs, we should do pretty well.

I say power to those who can, and do get to retire. All without screwing someone else. A couple people upthread were able to do it and got unfairly jumped on.

I'll never get to retire. I can't afford to make use of my company's 401k benefit. It's there, but there's always something I'm required to spend money on, money I'd like to sock away for later. There have been attempts to get 401ks going, but I never got vested enough to get company contributions, in one case the company never gave me my 401k money when they went out of business.

Just about every three years, the company I've worked for either went out of business or they were downsizing and my department was the one to go. Last time I was just about to cross the great divide into the second tier of vacation and personal time benefits for the first time in my life. Then the company, one of the top ten multinationals, decided to shed its American software, hardware, networking, and printer services.

Today I expect to be laid off in two years, because it's time to, not because the company's in trouble. The company is great to work for, and hugely successful, but I'll get booted out the door because that's the way of it with me.

No matter how hard I work, no matter how skilled I am, no matter how much creativity I bring to the job, no matter how many procedures I come up with to make other people's jobs easier, no matter how many certifications I earn, no matter how impressive the resume, no matter how many customers request me by name, it doesn't make one bit of difference. Every 4 to 5 years, it's bye-bye to Nobody.

You think a person might throw up her hands in disgust and despair? No. I don't. After each layoff, I get more active in liberal politics and move further to the left.

I've tried to be an ant, to save up for the future, but every time I do, I get kicked in the teeth. So now I'm a grasshopper, living in the moment and not worrying about the future. There's not a damn thing I can do to prevent the next layoff, it'll happen when it happens and like all the times before it will have nothing to do with me. I'll take yet another humungous pay cut, find new things to cut out of my life, and keep on keeping on.

For all of you who CAN save up and retire, good for you! I only wish I could do the same.

Anybody can save up and retire if they aren't stupid and make bad choices. Anybody can overcome bad breaks and extenuating circumstances. Get with the program dude.

(The attitude is what I objected to, not whatever measure of financial success someone has.)

when I was trying to get a 20. There is no such thing as random chance, so that 20 sided icosahedron should come up with whatever number you want every time you roll the dice.

I guess it just means I'm undeserving. :sarcasm: /rwtalkingpoints

I see your point. You're probably right there in the same boat with me.

It didn't use to be that way in America. People at least had a reasonable chance of finding a job where they could spend their working lives - and seniority meant something. I know you've seen the corporate propaganda, how today's workforce wants to be mobile and not work at the same place for their whole careers, blah blah. No it doesn't, it's the corporations that want people to be mobile, and in your case it is painfully obvious why this is so. They're dumping you right before you become eligible for benefits. It reminds me of some employers who make sure none of their employees ever work enough hours to be categorized as 'full-time'.

Our wealthy elite has bankrolled a long transition far far to the right in this country. For comparison, consider some of the things Ike had to say. I am hoping that January 2007 will mark the humble beginning of a movement to transition ourselves away from the extreme right we find ourselves in today.

Don't give up. Lots of people do their best and fall short of their goals, through no fault of their own. But it's a pretty safe bet that most people fail if they don't try to succeed. Sounds like you're in IT, which has been hit pretty hard in recent years. Have you considered going into business yourself? It might be a way to break the cycle that you seem to be in. I have a friend who did that, and he gets big bucks whenever a company hires him to do IT work.

I've had a part-time job at a small PR firm for the past 2 years, and there's been hardly any work for me there since August. I'm a marketing writer with a journalism background.

I'm 54 and have fibromyalgia, so I can't handle standing for long periods of time.

Nobody wants to hire a 54-year-old woman unless they need a cleaning lady, in my opinion. I've sent out a lot of resumes and had dozens of interviews, but can't find full time work. I have always had a job, and never had any trouble finding or keeping jobs, until the late 1990s. The only time in my entire life that I collected unemployment was from 2002 to 2004, when I was laid off from my current part-time job.

Fortunately my husband has a job, but we are just barely covering the bills and not saving a cent. And his department is filled with Indians replacing American computer workers, so he works incredibly long hours just to keep that precious job.

Retire? :rofl:

it's time for the ERA

Middle class jobs are being eliminated by the tens of thousands. Competition for the fewer and fewer remaining jobs that pay a decent wage has grown fierce. The pie keeps shrinking for all of us.

Men have the edge over women, whites have the edge over blacks, etc. And there's nothing the corporations love better than pitting us against one another so we can blame the "other guy" instead of realizing that the executives are grabbing obscene amounts of money and leaving virtually nothing for the rest of us.

I'm a darned good writer and reporter, but most jobs involving writing these days also demand that you be able to make up data spreadsheets, write speeches, know programming languages, have a master's degree, lay out pages with Adobe or Quark, and so forth. It's the same thing in other fields. I simply don't have money to go back to school -- we've got two kids in college.

In other fields, people are being replaced through the outsourcing of jobs or by insourcing -- importing foreign professionals and paying them less to do jobs previously done by Americans.

There's a phrase, "right to work," that refers to state laws that eliminate the ability of unions to collect dues from workers. I wish "right to work" had a different meaning entirely -- the right of taxpaying American citizens to obtain and keep jobs that pay them enough to live on and save for the future.

and you're right about corporations pitting us all against each other. There is also a good point about trying to keep one's skills up and not having any support (training spent by the corporation, not out of your wallet).

However, still... at the end of the day. Women in their 50's arent working at any decent wage rate except for jobs in the pink ghetto like teaching and medical professions and maybe, law.

I've been investing in the 401k that the company I work for offers. I'm doing well with that, and have picked some nice diversified options for my money and it's grown quite a bit.

I don't plan on Social Security at all when I retire, so I keep plugging away at the 401k. I bump up the percentage that is withheld each week every 6 months.

My wife and I have pretty good pensions, pretty good health insurance, bought our house when the market was favorable. We also started saving for retirement 15 years before we retired. Paid off all of our interest bearing debt (except the mortgage), then approximated how much we would be getting in retirement and started living on that. Paid cash for everything. Everything else went to saving for retirement. IRAs, and deferred savings plans at work.

But, we were lucky to work for the government which had, at the time, good retirement benefits, good health plans, which we could carry into retirement, no kids, and inexpensive tastes (a good book and a nice place to read it is our idea of a great time).

I have no idea how people with kids, or without good pensions with health care, can afford to retire.

I AM retired on SS Disability. There's nothing more to come.

:cry:

But I was going to buy one of these coffee mugs for myself for Christmas. :)

http://www.cafepress.com/dogs_of_war/1855387

I retire at 48. The pension plan is automatic. I contribute to my 401k (the Thrift Savings Plan) and the government matches 5%. The stocks and precious metals are new as of about 6 months ago...it's not difficult to get started if you just set aside a small amount of money every month. I get a reduced SS benefit beginning when I retire at 48 (part of my job's benefit package).


I won't be wealthy, but I should be able to retire on time without too many worries.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

All I did was save all my life. I saved money from my first job (at 14) right up to my last (at 57). I never saved a lot and a couple of times I had to dip into that savings, but I never quit saving anytime I had an income. To be fair I almost always had good paying jobs. Never high paying jobs, certainly never what you'd call big money, but always good for the area in which I was living. My total time unemployed over my working years was less than 3 years too, so that helped.

You want to retire? Save!

I was 53. I just turned 54. Have full pension and medical until death. Have my 410K. Twenty years of contributions without a withdrawal. Wife retire in Aug of 06. Worked for the County Road Commission. She has her full medical and pension until death. Also has a 20 year, 457 savings. (401K for Gov't employees) House is paid for.

Moving to Tennessee in the Spring. Having a house built. It will be paid for. Only worry about the electric and phone bill.

Do you have a union contract?

to new contracts. It has never been eliminated. Ever. Won't happen. I currentely have it in the existing contract.

They could stop making cars today and still make money. Cars is not all thay make. The Asian market is making them a bundle. With Kerkorian out of the way, they will take off now, with all the cuts in employment that has been made this year.

How do you know that during that timeframe GM won't go bankrupt?

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SB110003711129469246.htm
>>
When a deputy sheriff came to his door with a court summons, George Kneifel, a retiree in Union Mills, Ind., was mystified. His former employer was suing him.

The employer, beverage-can maker Rexam Inc., had agreed in labor contracts to provide retirees with health-care coverage. But now the company was asking a federal judge to rule that it could reduce or eliminate the benefit.

Many companies have already cut back company-paid health-care coverage for retirees from their salaried staffs. But until recently, employers generally were barred from touching unionized retirees' benefits because they are spelled out in labor contracts. Now, some are taking aggressive steps to pare those benefits as well, including going to court.
>>

I think you should be....

about my retirement benefits than I am.:shrug:

I could loose mine completely and still be covered under my wifes. She retired from Municipal Gov't.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50D11FC3A5B0C758CDDA80994DE404482&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fW%2fWalsh%2c%20Mary%20Williams

State, county, and municipal governments are not necessarily safe either.

I would suggest you read up on Mary Williams Walsh's articles in the NY Times.

Consider yourself warned.

You can choose to ignore it or not. Your choice.

Hmmm. Wonder if Cheney owns any stock in Purina.

Edited for typo

old-man version of Robin Hood:crazy:

sit and type, so I can keep working as long as my brain holds out.

I'll probably have to.

pension, inheritance nope no equity I have none of these but I will tell you what I do have I have a heart and the best life ever. Everything I have I give to my family and my friends and I also give to people I don't know and that is the sweetest of all. This Christmas give till it hurts.

Merry Christmas to you, and thanks for the uplifting words.

Too many young people don't. I'm catching up now with my retirement, but I'll be 62 before I'm even eligible for full retirement, and 67 for it to be good. And that's only if I finish this stupid master's degree. Many of my colleagues will be eligible for retirement at 52, finishing their glory days teaching community college or working wherever they please. The ones who saved beyond the retirement plan will be able to live out their days playing golf and cruising around in the RV.

Barring any long-term health care needs, I may get a small inheritance. Also my house is worth something, and I've been wanting to move to Arkansas for years anyway...

And I'm still better off, probably, than most Americans. Gotta count my blessings.

health costs a bee-yotch, though, even with Medicare (for which I'm too young).

stock market is a scam..

but have been putting 8% into a 401k since 24, I'm now 42. Also bought into the company 10 years ago, so far, so good. I worry that I am not putting enough away, always rented, so no home equity. Spent more on cars and toys, at 42 I look back and sometimes wished I didn't.

The earliest I could consider retirement is 60. I'm not so sure I would want to retire earlier, work is rewarding. Give me too much free time, I get into mischief. I was out of work 20 years ago due to a car accident, sat around home for 3 months and got extremely bored, almost depressed. Getting back to school and work was a relief.

An inheritance is a possibility, my dad got money from his folks, lived frugally, and invested wisely. This is not something I am counting on however. He could retire, but at 70 is still working 32 hours a week, and putting money into his 401k. Silly work ethic thing, I guess. Or maybe he and mom are worried they will drive each other nuts if they stayed home together every day.

I will join the riots if SS becomes means tested. This rewards those who did not plan at all, and punishes those that did manage to save something. Absolutely unfair, bordering on thievery. The money I paid into SS is mine, please don't plan on stealing it.

to work (assuming I'm healthy), with the corresponding contributions and interest. I don't now whether this will be enough when the time comes, but so far it's seemed to be doing well. So, I've started making personal contributions to it, along with those the church makes. I also have a home equity fund, that doesn't have much in it, and is to be used to purchase a home when the time comes.

And I still worry.

But I was a teenage single parent who graduated neither high school nor college therefore my lifetime earning capacity diminished accordingly.

But I do have a 401k, two IRAs, a small mortgage on a small house and I can keep it at all as long as I have the ability to earn a paycheck. But if I don't, I have disability insurance for the income I need.

well before I was ready. I had a bunch of money in the stock market and my retirement account (TSA). Bush came in office and I saw the writing on the wall. I pulled my money out before he let the market tank. I had enough to pay off my mortgage. That was like having an extra $600 a month. I got my pension minus what I got from SSI disability. I'm doing OK, but not as good as I wanted.

... all I can come up with right now ...

They'll find me slumped over my desk one day. That's my retirement plan.

And it occurred to me that there had to be a better way to check out.

from being a marine engineer for 25 years and an IRA. I have a little inheritance money, plus the duplex I own and we live in that I bought in 1990 for less than half of what it's worth now, so for the time being we're doing okay. If my husband passes away before I do, things will be a little harder for me because MEBA doesn't want to give me survivor benefits since I wasn't married to HullBoss at the time he retired. But I think even in that event, I'll be okay because I would have the rental income, social security and I'll probably be working until I can't anymore (I'm self-employed).

It's rather miraculous that things have turned out this way for me. I've been completely flat broke with no financial cushion at all for so much of my life that I just always assumed that it would be a struggle for me until the end, but fate has smiled on me, at least for now. However, I've learned never to take anything for granted, and I'm glad I have the experience of living on next to nothing because I know I can do it again if I have to.

401K, pension, SS & income from rental property should provide me with a decent living.

My home is paid off. I have no debt and no credit cards to get into debt with.

except for what to do about my medical insurance because I am so ill.

We're looking into a high deductible private plan that will take me.

I will soon find myself in the same position as you.

The high-deductible plans suck.

Universal healthcare can't come quickly enough.

I am fortunate enough to be financially secure enough to cover the deductible without breaking a sweat. Do they suck in other ways?

Even if you are financially secure enough to cover the deductible, you shouldn't have to go with one of these policies to get coverage. Health insurance should be affordable. I'm sure you have better things to do with your money than throw it to an insurance company.

And even if you have enough money to cover the deductible, you still have to get an insurance company to take you with pre-existing conditions. Yes, it sucks, doesn't it?

get his company to offer retirees the company group rate insurance - you would pay the whole tab instead of a portion like an employee but still get the group rate.

So far they won't discuss it. All the founders (my husband is one) are hitting retirement age and they don't want them to go! *chuckle*

I am only 44 so I'm looking at (actuarially) another 10 years, maybe 15, barring renal failure, of needing medical. (You can enroll in Medicare if your kidneys go.) I can't get life insurance for ANY price so have investments and stuff put away for my son.

I wish I could offer you more than that.

Hopefully the Democrats will offer some solutions SOON.

(I don't think high-deductible policies are a solution.)

I like where I live.

My plan is to build a really nice house in the next 12-18 months and stay in it until I die and likely use a reverse mortgage to live off of in my retirement. Not much choice otherwise.

and living in Mexico.

Seriously, this whole compounding thing better pick up the pace!