Black Box Voting recives new legal threats from ES&S

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/45350.html

This is the fourth time Black Box Voting and/or its founder, Bev Harris, have received legal threats from voting machine vendors who believe they have the right to sell secret software that miscounts elections.

Attached below is a copy of a peculiar cease and desist order from ES&S, which asks Black Box Voting to remove links that don't exist on its Web site. Black Box Voting does not even have access to the information ES&S is demanding.

ES&S machines have demonstrated proven miscounts in Texas, Florida and Arkansas in the Nov. 2006 election, but exactly how the software miscounted is supposed to be a secret, knowable only to people who work for this privately held company.

Even the county officials, who in some cases have been crying out for assistance -- and are unhappy with the level of service they've received from ES&S and its contractors -- are not permitted to look at the ES&S software that miscounted their votes.

Details on those stories follow, after some additional records are received from Freedom of Information and public records requests to further document those situations. In the mean time, some of the ES&S miscounts can be found through news searches.

Here is a link to the latest ES&S threat letter, which is full of factual inaccuracies:

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/ES_S_Slashdot-45355.pdf

The files in question have been floating around amoung various voting integrity researchers for more than a year, and Black Box Voting contends that no copyright violation has occurred anyway, as review of these files is clearly in the public interest.

This is what you get when you privatize voting companies. Unlike Diebold, ES&S is privately held and discloses no public information on its owners, which have included Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, his campaign finance director Michael McCarthy, the Omaha World Herald (which controls many of the newspapers in Nebraska and has failed to cover the conflict of interest of its own state senator). Other owners that have been listed, but whose current involvement is not confirmed since ES&S's stock transactions are a secret, are: A consortium of owners of the former Cronus/Business Records Corp. from Texas. This involvement was mentioned in 1997. Also, an entity called "Normal Investments LLC" was listed by ES&S on documents submitted to Santa Clara County, Calif. during a procurement process.

We will refer the cease & desist from ES&S to our Board of Directors. It's hard to know what to do with it, since nothing in the letter appears to address anything Black Box Voting has control over.

PERMISSION TO REPRINT AND DISTRIBUTE THIS ARTICLE IS GRANTED, WITH LINK TO http://www.blackboxvoting.org

*runs for cover*

:popcorn:

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Let the games begin!





:hi: Sapphocrat - long time no thread (me that is). Missed ya. Here's a giggle - I typed your name then read over all to check for errors (I never use spell check). I spelled you name sorta right -
"Sapphobrat" :P

Good to see you too! :hi:

It's OK, I've been called LOTS worse than Sapphobrat!
:rofl:

:popcorn:

This could be a while. :hi:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You can count me among them.

You're way better about bookmarks than I've ever been! Bookmarking this one, too -- I can never find it when I want it.

PM me and I'll be happy to send it (and others) along.

David Allen

that went down. i bookmarked it!

(the perfect link to direct those who weren't caught up with all this back then--)

thanks.

You can also find more info here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace

I think you guys are allowing your emotions to get in the way of the issue at hand and are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Whatever happened in the past doesn't negate the fact that BBV and Bev helped get the word out about the voting problems, and by bringing that up every single time there's a thread that mentions her or BBV you are diminishing the value of the post.

The post is about ES&S more so than BBV, about their privacy issues and how they are trying to squash any efforts of the public knowing how the software that counts their votes works. That's the important thing.

So please, can you guys stop the petty posts about the past? It's getting in the way of the real issue at hand, privately owned voting machines that cannot be verified, which I would assume you would like to have resolved.

and that is, that while Ms. Harris has done some good work, she's also a bit of a grifter. She's taken credit for others' work, she's taken money that's not accounted for, she's accused others of doing what THEY weren't but she was (cashing in on the whole thing by filing a qui tam lawsuit), she has turned off or alienated important allies or potential allies (Olbermann, Randi Rhodes, others I don't even know about), contributed at least by negligence to one person's death (Andy Stephenson), and so forth and so on. This is just a partial list.

No doubt she is capable of doing some good things and I believe has done some good things in the past and perhaps even the present and possibly even the future. BUT it's critically important for anyone who cares about this issue (and everyone should0 to know at least this much: be very, very careful and DON'T get sucked in or snookered.

your last line:
""BUT it's critically important for anyone who cares about this issue (and everyone should0 to know at least this much: be very, very careful and DON'T get sucked in or snookered. ""

but not in the popular way it seems to be believed here.

A sure way to raise the ire of DU is to bring up that womans name. Andy was loved and respected here and what she did to him was unforgivable.

Read the what Kelvin Mace had to say about her before you pass judgments on those here who harbor no respect for her.

The link is above in post #9 it's very informative.

I read about it. I still think that you have to separate the issue from that experience.
I'm not trying to diminish anything that happened, I certainly don't know the extent of it, but I think the OP was about the secrecy desired by one of the voting machine manufacturers and it got trampled on and dismissed simply because it mentioned BBV and Bev.

As I said, it seems that people are allowing their emotions to get in the way of looking at the issue at hand.

I understand that you will probably still disagree, and that's fine, but for the good of secure voting I would respectfully ask that you at least take my observation into consideration.

Peace.

And it has been answered, but I will post it again:

Here are the excuses offered by Bev apologists and my answers:

1) "It doesn't matter if Bev libels people and lies as long as she stops BBV". (the ends justify the means).

Do I really have to explain to liberals why this is immoral?

2) "Bev said..."

We have heard Bev's claims. We have seen no evidence to back up these claims. We have been very careful to document our claims with links, and emails (Bev's own words). The word of someone caught in multiple lies is not "proof".

3) "Bev has saved the world, what have you done?"

*sigh* If you really wanted to know (and I don't think you do) you could avail yourself to Google and find out what we are doing. We never claimed to be saving the world, just fighting paperless voting the best we can.

4) "After all Bev did..."

Bev didn't do it on her own, she had help, LOTS of help. She rewarded the people who helped her by publicly smearing them.

5) "Prove to me that Bev..."

I've posted the proof. Read the links.

6) "No, point me to a summary or specific post that proves your case."

Sorry. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, we require our proofs to be read IN CONTEXT. Anything else would be unfair and deceptive. Reading and thinking is hard work. It's why we are liberals and not freepers.

And I have added a new one

7) If you attack Bev, you must work for (fill in the blank) Diebold, Karl Rove, the Bavarian Illuminati, etc.

You know, I get real tired of this kind of paranoia. Do you homework folks, look at the documentary evidence that exists. While some people who are anti-Bev also make these kinds of allegations against Bev, I don't, nor do the majority of Bev critics. This is reality, not a Robert Ludlum novel.

There is clear and convincing evidence showing myself and many other Bev critics as working hard against BBV. There is clear and convincing evidence in the form of OFFICIAL filings with the IRS showing that there are SERIOUS problems with how Bev has handled over $1 million in donations given to her.

Many of us have clearly established records as liberals dating back a decade or more. Bev has a record of being anti-Clinton and colluding with Freepers.

If you are now going to insist that this is all faked, there is no hope for you and I will not waste my time with you.

As I have said before, t is regrettable this is necessary, but Bev's "help" is making our job harder.

The group in question has no credibility, but they LOVE to pretend they do. For those of us who are actually INFORMED about the issues at hand, we are aware that "glory hounds" (like the leader of the group in question) cause damage to REAL INVESTIGATION.

Bev and her group are to Election Fraud Investigation what Jimmy the Greek was to sports commentary -- a public embarrassment, and a huge self promoter.

I know what she did -- and didn't do -- during the 2004 Election Fraud Investigation. My opinion on her has been well documented. Read this link, if you want to know about REAL frustration: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=211132

Here's one from four months ago. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace/16

"Bev helped get the word out..." Well, she did plenty to discredit the movement, smear legitimate election reform activists, harm people in many ways and alienate those in liberal media so that they shunned the subject when we needed them. BEV has been "getting in the way of the real issue".

THAT'S a damned "important thing", too.

"petty gossip"?

...k&r for OP

At the Pittsburgh, PA hearing on voting machines, I looked right at the VP of ES&S and said "If we had your source code, I'll bet we'd be talking about all the ES&S hacks today instead of all the Diebold hacks."

Full story here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=412184#412188

I guess they took the message seriously, after their own fashion....

and went with ES&S touchscreens w/ no voter verified paper trail at all.

I and a friend from the disabled community were involved in the fight from the first and REAL citizen input was ignored from Day One. My friend was appointed to a committee that was to provide input (because they thought his disabled advocacy would make him pro-touchscreen). When it was clear that the committee would recommend strict audit standards, they were disbanded and ignored.

The whole process in PA stunk to high heaven.

it will be the accumulation of small acts of courage like yours and your friends that turn the tide against the mafia organizations and restore our democracy.

color me skeptical ... just reminiscent of other breathless posts that were couched into begs for money. It worked. For a while.

has donations down 80%, but Bev's salary up 50% (she now pays herself $90,000 a year. Total expenses and salaries for Bev and the board exceeded donations by about $3,000.

Total salaries with payroll taxes, etc. is $200,506, exceeding income by $25,000.

Thanks for clarifying.

Pass the hat. I'm sure someone would be glad to spit in it.

Directly from her front page, placed top and center:

So, that's my take.

they seem to say that Bev has posted a link to Slashdot, that links to zip files on a server under her control (blackbox1.org) containing programs ES&S own.

IF true, then Bev would be in violation of the law.

Now, a look up of blackbox1.org shows the owner is hidden by a proxy. One might assume that ES&S' legal teem would have picked up the phone/FAX/FedEx envelope and told the proxy to fork over the name of the domain holder. One could be absolutely wrong, since my experience with these things tells me that most law firms are completely clueless on IP law and the DMCA.

Now, if Bev REALLY doesn't own this server, or have ANYTHING to do with the files being posted, then her lawyer should simply send a letter back saying in essence "We don't own the server, try doing your homework. Now piss off!"

Instead, Bev is turning it into yet another "fundraising moment" by getting it posted over here.

ES&S are being idiots about this for two reasons. 1) Their attorneys, who claim to be experts on copyright law, chose to send a C&D letter to demand the files be removed. If they really knew what they were doing they would simply have used the DMCA to pull the files themselves. A "pull down" notce happens at once, it does not have to wait for "due process" (a power I totally disagree with). 2) Instead, they have sent a C&D letter, which Bev posted (and any moron would know that she would post it), which tells the world the location of the files. I just checked, the files are still there and still there and still accessable. Also, a DMCA order would also have revealed the actual owner of the server.

If Bev truly doesn't have anything to do with it, they have made Bev look the hero, giving her more means to raise money, and they have opened themselves up for counter litigation from Bev.

These people shouldn't be allowed to write grocery lists, never mind write voting software.

"they seem to say that Bev has posted a link to Slashdot"

She appears to claim that she had not, but by publicly posting the letter, NOW she HAS posted the URL addresses.


"Now, if Bev REALLY doesn't own this server, or have ANYTHING to do with the files being posted..."

If. We have nothing to say that she does or doesn't... only her claim that she doesn't have access to the information (and ya know how that goes).


(Bev says~) "We will refer the cease & desist from ES&S to our Board of Directors. It's hard to know what to do with it..."

After having spent over $78,500 in BBV funds on legals fees, ya think she'd have her attorney's FAX number??


"One might assume that ES&S' legal team would have picked up the phone/FAX/FedEx envelope and told the proxy to fork over the name of the domain holder."

What says they didn't? Perhaps they did.


(Bev Harris~) "Black Box Voting contends that no copyright violation has occurred anyway, as review of these files is clearly in the public interest."

So it appears that she is saying that she didn't do it, but IF she DID do it, her defense is that she didn't do anything illegal. Good luck to her in using "in the public interest" as a legal defense to copyright infringement.

Looking very much forward to Bev posting BBV's response letter. Wonder when that'll be.

of the BBV Homepage....Greedy, conniving wench that she is...Fuck her and the horse she rode in on...Or should that be Clinton Cigar she rode in on?