Do you believe a Democrat-controlled congress would impeach Bush?

My gut tells me they wouldn't have the will. They have demonstrated an astonishing lack of political discipline, follow-through, and courage over the past half-decade (Conyers and Boxer excluded).

Why should I believe they would make a real stand against Bush?

As far as I can see, the Dems are still the party of Daschle -- trembling in post-9-11 paralysis.

Flame on.

I don't know whether or not they would actually impeach, but folks like Conyers and Boxer could at least get a hearing.

If the Dems take back Congress with only a one or two vote margin, probably not. But the key factor would be to bring Republicans on board-the impeachment must be bi-partisan, or else KKKarl will say it is simply a smear by the traitor-Democrats.

You have every right to assume they have no spine. But I believe John Conyers would initiated it because it's the right thing to do. On many issues, all the way from election fraud to WMDs to wiretaps without a warrant.

The Dems held back on Iran-Contra only to have Clinton impeached over nothing. I think the days of gentleman politics on the Dem side of the aisle are over.

Every Republican administration since Nixon has broken the law with impunity.

anti-Communism, which excused all American foreign policy sins, like his father did.

Dubya has nothing to fall back on once his cowardness, incompetence and criminal negligence that led to 9/11 is exposed. The Dems should be in full investigation and prosecution mode.

It is the exact same thing...they needed a boogeyman to keep us in fear with. 9/11 supplied that perfectly.

He's hiding behind terrorism, as he probably has planned from the outset, in order to take this country down into Fascist One Party dictatorship and to shield his actions from criticism all the while.

Hopefully the new members won't be so paralyzed by the past.

if the public wanted it, they could find the backbone to do it

the Repukes set the precedent as using impeachment as a political weapon with Clinton

I could just see them getting control of Congress and deciding that it's in the country's best interests "not to cause the people of America any further division" by impeaching the no-good fuck.

They had better impeach him if they gain control. In fact, even if they don't gain control they better serve him with Articles of Impeachment, just to let us know they tried. Our party owes us that one favor.

Don't get me wrong...they need to have their asses impeached. But the fact is, the whole fucking mess they've made of everything needs to come out so that only the die-hard kool-aid drinkers will think of them as innocent victims of a "partisan witch hunt." The whole country needs to back away in horror from their crimes so that we can all scream "never again!"

Of course, I thought we'd achieved that with Watergate, but this is so much worse than anything Nixon ever did.

I agree with the original post here. I thought that Daschle's loss would have a silver lining in the cloud, but I haven't seen enough to make me believe our side has the balls to even try it, much less pull it off. Say what you want about Repugs, but they do have the stones / gall / audacity / selfishness to drag the country down in order to try to destroy one man - our side doesn't. JMO.

I think we have a de facto one party system. The Dems are largely in bed with corporate interests as well. I believe the only reason there's an outcry against Bush now (excluding the ones with integrity who've resisted from the beginning) is that he's f'ked up so consistently and blatantly that it's impossible to ignore it anymore without looking like idiots themselves.

They will not however risk "controversy" in America by actually enforcing laws or defending the constitution. That, of course, would be disruptive to national interests - whatever they happen to be this week.

We're in upsidedowninsideout world.

J

The Democratic party is pretty much a party of gutless wonders, aside from the CBC. They have little to offer and have shown themselves to be the "me too" party. They go along to get along and exhibit no leadership. It is difficult to name one impressive figure in the whole bunch that has had much of anything useful to say over the past five years.

this isn't the heyday of a majority democratic party country -- and while the tactics of the repukes have extraordinarily successful -- i see no committment on the part of the democratic party to play the kind of hard ball the repukes play.

don't forget -- the repukes were willing to work very hard for many years to get to where they are today.
that determination hasn't gone away.

we need that steely muscular resolve from the democratic party.
THEN all bets are off.

then they would have to impeach Cheney as well. That would leave the speaker, I believe. Hastert, right? I hate Bush as much as anybody, and I agree that the Dems have been pretty spineless. There are also those such as Clinton (flame on) and Leiberman who seem to be posturing.
As for Bush, I would settle for neutering him. Whack his pee-pee by stripping him of power.

And the Senate isn't even involved in impeachment unless the House impeaches. Conyers has started the process already.

Now, there may be a few Dinos who would resist. But that number could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. Even they would come around once the magnitude of */Cheney crimes came out into the light. Hell, I bet there are a number of Repugs who'd agree.

I think the preliminary answer was "yes, impeachable," but I haven't heard any updates lately.

Since Bush broke the law I am sure a democratic house and senate will impeach him.

For the simple fact that the country is polarized enough already, no thanks to the evil tactics of the other side. They might come up with some sort of special punishment but the majority wouldn't want to make him a martyr for the rethug cause.

paramount this (OK, next) year.
:kick:

in our Southern newspaper today. It is as clear as it can be. The Dems need to pursue-I am hoping they will.

if they want the left to support them anymore. And I do mean that. They would lose their base by not protecting the Constitution from this type of abuse.

The Congress in its present makeup, even with enough votes to take back the majority, are a bunch of emasculated WATBs -- they're soooo afraid! We need to elect Senator John Blutarsky. I can hear it now:


Lieberman: Whining. War's over, man. Bush dropped the big one.

Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

H. Clinton: Germans?

B. Clinton: Forget it, he's rolling.

Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

thinks hard

Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!

runs out, alone; then returns

Bluto: What the fuck happened to the Democratic Party I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Bush, he's a dead man! Cheney, dead! Rumsfeld...

J. Murtha: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

Bluto: We're just the party to do it.

Dean: Let's do it.

Bluto: LET'S DO IT!

People can make as many negative statements as they wish, since they are completely without risk. This is a very different approach than actually trying something and seeing if it works.

In fact the people who bitch the loudest about the supposed failings of the Democrats got exactly what they wanted - the Democrats out of power. Therefore what we are living is exactly what the fuck these people asked for.

Some of these people claim to not be enjoying their nirvana of one party rule. My gut tells me that these people, who do nothing but bitch, have an astonishing lack of self-disipline, absolutely no courage (since they do nothing but bitch), and are completely lacking a clue about how to offer positive actions.

Whatever the probability may be there is only one mechanism throguh which a Bush impeachment (and Cheney impeachment) is even possible: That would be a Democratic Congress. Therefore anyone who is carping about what might happen in that event is essentially in the business of completely eliminating the one (and ONLY) possibility for domestic justice under the terms of self-government.

It is always possible that foreign governments will kick the rotting doors in of the USA and will arrest and try our government, but I think it is better that we attempt this ourselves before events make that tragic and most likely violent outcome necessary. I repeat, there is BUT one possibility to have Bush impeached, tried, convicted, arrested, criminally tried and incarcerated. That possibility is only a Democratic congress. Without that first step nothing will happen except through violence.

Totally Cash Poor/Independant Progressives

the dnc is just the 'liberal' wing of the corporatist party, both it and the rnc are bought and sold corporate fronts with false and meaningless differences that flare up to entertain us, they both vote for the monied interests (as a whole), you and me are meaningless

It has nothing to do with guts. It has to do with politics and the rule of Law and I believe that at the time, during the Clinton Adnministration when Newt Gingrich's so-called Contract With America began, a tidal wave of legislators from the GOP were swept into office not knowing squat about what this country is all about We are experiencing the results of that now. Men with no conscience, at the reins of government. Also, the Democratic Party lost its long time hold on the congress. THATS WHY WE WILL IMPEACH. Once we regain control, we undo all the wrongs that have been perpetrated on this country by the repukes.

And, on the off chance that there is any Democrat who has trouble getting tough with the Bushies......just remember, getting re-elected requires party backing which copuld be lacking at the next election.


Yes. once we have he chance. I think we will kick Bush right thru the goalposts.

Let's ask this question. If you could secretly tap all of your opponent's phones, e-mail, Blackberry's and cell phones. Wouldn't you do it?. Why is it that the Democrats vote with the majority? What does our great leader have on the Democrats?

The democratic leaders seem more focused on only doing publicity stunts and getting their faces on camera rather than doing any real legal action, real investigating or real legislation.
Too chickenshit they'll get their phones tapped or Hannity and Limbaugh will say bad things about them.

I have no doubt, whatsoever, they'd impeach that asshole and indict his lot of corrupt goons! :grr:

to impeachment--but I still think it is 50-50.

A dem controlled House would mean his nuts are in a vise anyway.

And besides if succegully impeached by the House.ANd sucessfully convicted by the Sente. It would mean we get Cheny for president. Umm no thanks.

Scheming for a twofer? Would be viewed as a vendetta. and there would be backlash. considerable backlash. But lets say the stars are alighend and kismet happens. Nancy Pelosi would become president. Is that what we want? Really?

Nacy Pelosi leading the charge to indict Bush and Cheney in order to ascend to the Presidency.Sh would be the least popular bresident in all of history and completely ineffective.

Principles impeachment or not. I want to win in 2008 in a landslide as a national repudiation of the NeoCon agenda.

If Pelosi were the heir apparent we would likely lose in the Fall.

NO thanks.

It's a two-thirds majority in the Senate. I honestly believe that Senators, in general, are law abiding. And this president and his cabinet have committed high crimes. There is no doubt to that. Although the Senate decides what "high crimes" are. In the case of Clinton, it was having bad hair, or some such thing. I forget now.

Yes. I amn not an optimist. But I believe he will be impeached. Only because if he isn't, then what is America? Trash.

But really, I don't know. I'm just an internet forum member. What goes on in Congress is far deeper than what most of us know. Like the previous poster said, maybe weighing out Cheney as president would discourage impeachment.








(How on earth did this happen in the Clinton White House? Gee, I wasn't paying attention at all. Evidently, it IS possible.)

You are also correct. Not only are we watching in disgust and disbelief at what's going on and being gotten away with, just a little bad publicity, nothing else, in Washington, DC, but the rest of the world is watching with the same disgust and disbelief too.

I have no doubt that a democratically controlled house would vote for articles of impeachment. You merely need a majority and I think that Nancy Pelosi could get it done. The problem is getting 2/3 of the senate to convict * of the charges that the house managers would present the senate with. Removing a sitting president from office is not something that a senator is going to take lightly. This happened during the Clinton impeachment trial when several republicans voted to acquit Clinton of all charges. This drove Hast and Delay crazy because they were unable to force the Senate Republicans to vote along party lines.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

If we put some real progressive Democrats in office who don't ignore or disregard the CBC and other real Democrats we've already got in office, I think we can make things happen. The career politicians and corporate whores will either have to play along or be made to look like assholes.

The Democrats, if they regain control of the House, will initiate investigations of various policies. But the House (and the country)will still be fairly evenly divided. Unless a clear cut "smoking gun" is produced by these investigations, there will be no impeachment. The Democrats will conclude, correctly, that the electorate isn't interested in impeachment and that pursuing impeachment would give the repubs a great opportunity to rebound in 2008 by claiming that what the country needs is a plan for the future and the Democrats are wallowing in the past. (Before you flame me, I'm not saying I agree with these sentiments, just that this is what likely will occur).

A few hard realities: First, when the Repubs pursued impeachment against Clinton, it cost them seats in Congress. Unless there is an overwhelming public demand for impeachment, the same thing could happen to Democrats in 2008.

Second, notwithstanding what some DUers seem to think, there isn't a secret silent majority of progressives who haven't been voting for Democrats because they are too "moderate." When the Democrats have run hard to the left of the repubs, we've gotten clobbered: McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis come to mind.

Finally, while I'm appalled at the administration's secret use of warrantless wiretaps, my bet is that the Democrats won't pursue impeachment on that basis. Why? Because even Democrats want to preserve the options for expansive executive power with respect to foreign affairs. They may not say so publicly, but when push comes to shove, they won't go after the president for this. If however, it were to come out that, a la Nixon, chimpy had made abused his powers to spy on political rivals, then I think impeachment becomes a very real possibility.

onenote

I agree with you that the Dem's have demonstrated a lack of spine in years past. I worry that their philosophy has more to do with the general philosophy in our government that they are "protecting" the American public from all kinds of things.... what our defense department is working on, the general corruption in politics, etc. etc.

Even during the Nixon era some Dem's (Hillary Rodham) went out of their way to prolong the "investigation" process much longer than necessary. After reading a lot of information on that era I have come to the conclusion it was to keep information they felt was damaging to BOTH sides from the general public.

IMO, BOTH sides of the aisle don't want certain information coming out in a publicized trial and the investigation process involves a great deal of maneuvering to find a way to keep certain information from being exposed during that process.

I do maintain hope that a Dem controlled congress can manage to get the investigation process started but there isn't a whole lot of time left to them to actually accomplish and impeachment and conviction if they linger in those investigations as history shows us they are likely to do.

One can only hope that SOMEONE is already conducting as thorough an investigation as possible without Congressional authority right now, so as to make the process move a faster than in years past.

"Democrat" is a Republican slur.

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