Q: Were the black hoods Americans or Iraqis (or both)?

I haven't been finding this in any accounts, but the snippets of the Saddam hanging video made it appear to me that possibly the men under the black hoods might have been Americans.

If this turns out to be true, then I think we're in for a lot more danger in Iraq, and very soon.

... many Iraqi's that would be willing to do this. I some how doubt Americans would be extolling the virtues (in shouts) of Muqtada al Sadr, as the hooded men seemed to do.

n/t

The CIA involves itself in lots of "unsavory" goings on to keep our military industrial machine well-oiled, so to speak.

but, I just ask why ...when there are so many Iraqi's that would willingly do it.

I find the entire thing barbaric; I also have no doubt that the CIA is capable of anything ... I just think (due to personal interactions with people from Iraq) that there are many Iraqi's that would want to do this.

I DO believe that the entire thing was orchestrated by the US and it's operatives.

It's hard to find anyone who wants to "party" with them anymore.

I can't find a person that thinks this (the invasion and occupation) wasn't "F'ed" up beyond belief.

The Americans captured him and kept him in custody and handed him over to them. The US and Britain cannot escape responsibility for this and other atrocities in Iraq.

We're supposed to believe that, after being told repeatedly that the Iraqis just can't be trained, making them sound like inept dolts?

He never left U.S. custody, not even for a minute.

Maybe Rummy was the hangman

I wouldn't put it past the little Monkey Fuckboy.

edited for speeling

lmao?

??

pull the lever on that jackass. I'm thinking they were not having a hard time in that respect. Just a guess though.

Without knowing where he was at every second he was not in their custody??

who had been tortured, as bad or worse than Saddam's henchmen, and were rescued by American and Iraqi forces. Most of the violence is now being done by the Shiites. The Shiites are in charge of the "government". I think "mob" describes them quite well.

the U.S.? Saddam? Why is it that when a majority votes for a group we don't like, they are immediately illegitimate? Is it their religion?

Saddam would have been 70 years old in April. Not even the Arabs hang people after they are 70 years old. It is against their religion. So Saddam knew his time was coming. However, who should be in charge of Iraq? The people of Iraq should be in charge or the person they allow to rule them should be in charge. If they want change, then they should do what every other nation has done, fight for their independence. Assassinate their leaders. Blow up their homes with a car bomb. Surely they could have found a "suicide" bomber before we invaded? There have been quite a few since.

As for a "majority" voting for a group we don't like. It's a weak argument. Voting is no indicator of a flourishing democracy. People "voted" when Saddam was in power. Many of the votes in the purple finger election came from Iraqi voters outside the country, in places like Dearborn, Michigan. As we stood guard over the polling places.

Saddam kept security around himself it was impossible for someone to take him out. Dujail proved that, the dozens of other assassination attempts also failed. There are examples where the security apparatus of despots makes it unable for the people to fight back. Look at North Korea, do you feel the people there have any chance of overthrowing Kim Jong Il and hos F@#$ed up Chuche philosophy.

With them bowing down and kissing his ring and crap? Are you saying a sniper could not have taken him out?

When you saw Saddam among his people you saw him in Adhamiyah, or Tikrit, or Baghdad or Karradah. Even when Saddam went to Basra or other Shia cities the man either used doubles or had the area so heavily secured it wasn't possible. Al sadr is the most hated man in Iraq now, why has no Sunni Arab or Kurd ever taken him out, his security is nowhere near as good as Saddam's was.

Did they desert him when the Americans occupied their country? To give them "freedom" because they beleived in their CinC? Because the troops think they are only giving the Iraqis what every human deserves to have? Because it is a "moral" cause? Just what are your viewpoints on that, soldier?

Who do you think told us where he was???

Also the invasion shattered the invincibility myth that Saddam weaved around himself. What do my personal beliefs have to do with anything we are talking about. It appears you are trying to deflect the conversation from the topic at hand and instead redirect it at me. My views are my own, yet they are popular views here on DU. They are none of your business, I wold expect you to stay on topic.

Again like I said captured Saddam bodyguards turned on him because at that point in 2003 they feared us more than Saddam.

I was on topic.

country, then yes he was impossible to kill. When we overthrew his regime, that shattered the invincible aura he had. What few men stayed with him were able to be turned when we captured them. This really isn't hard.

we have to live with it.

The violence is actually done by two groups. During the daylight hours the Sunni militants are setting off IED's, VBIED's, SVBIED's, and SVIED's against Shia groups. When the sun goes down the Shia militias rule the night, going after Sunni's fellow Shia's they have scores to settle, and just about anyone else that gets in their way. They are a nasty piece of work, regardless of who created funded them or whatever, I think most Iraqis Shia's included would not shed a tear if they were targeted by US and/or government forces.

Groups like that cannot operate in the fashion they do without a good deal of real and solid popular support.

But most Iraqis want peace and quiet and know that the Mehdi army is not an improvement.

Iraqis are hardly exceptional in that regard. Differences begin to appear over how this happy state is to be achieved. A fair portion of the Shia populace in Iraq gives every sign of thinking the activities of the Mahdi Army are the best means of securing peace and quiet, at least in their neighborhoods for themselves. An offensive against them by U.S. soldiers would certainly "heighten the contradictions" considerably: it would not only force a number of these people to a more open stance in support of that body and against the U.S., it would expose the degree to which the puppet government we have erected in Iraq is really a creature of Mr. al'Sadr's, and not of our's.

n/t

C'mon do you really think they'd have a hard time recruiting followers of Al-Sadr to hang Saddam? And there's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to suggest that's precisely who executed him, from taunting exchanges to eyewitness accounts to Iraqi bloggers' analysis. But, hey you want to believe it was American exchanging curses in Arabic with Saddam, go for it.

If you look closely and watch the actions of a couple in the background, as they back away and let the Iraqis "finish" the job..

I'm not going to see it, but I think you're wrong, and so evidently does every Iraqi blogger I've read. Really, there was absolutely no need for American executioners, and really can you see Al-Sadr's henchman letting that happen? They hate the Americans. There's been some speculation that Al-Sadr made a deal with Maliki; that his crew would be the executioners and that the execution would happen immediately, in exchange for returning to the government. That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than your saying you think they were americans, with absolutely no reasoning or evidence other than a couple of them moved away. If you have real evidence or sound reasing, pleas present it.

I'm not saying the Americans pulled the lever - but they escorted him to the gallows. They would not turn him over to anyone without being present at all times with the security needed to assure he did not escape. Seems to be common sense...

That means they turned Saddam over to the mob without question and did not assist in escorting Saddam out of the "American" prison that was holding him- in the American base? The Iraqis came into the building and the Americans gave them the key to the cell and said, "Take him"? They were not concerned that he would escape? They trusted the Iraqis to do just what they said they would do? I'm trying to envision how Saddam was turned over without Americans being involved in any way??

A couple of the"hooded" men definately backed away and acted like they were just there to see that the job got done, but didn't really partake in the verbal exchange.

in an execution there are escorts and executioners. some are there to lead the prisioner and others are there to do the deed. One group would logically stand aside as the trained executioners do their jobs. This is quite simple actually. ;)

It also makes it darn convenient for the dumbass average American to know who they're supposed to hate now that Saddam is dead.

This was all a well rehearsed show put on for the U.S. to bolster support for staying in Iraq a few more years.

I can curse in Arabic, it's not all that hard. ;)

My question is why you would get Americans to pretend to be Shia Iraqis when there are certainly no shortage of the real thing willing to do the job.

Sometimes a spade is a spade i guess.

get "real" indians to dump tea, it's easier to control the situation when you know who the players are.

It presumes a conspiracy theory when none is needed. The US already funneled Saddam through a show trial, and certainly urged his immediate execution. There was simply no need for the executioners to be American. Or don't you think there are thousands of Shi'a who would gladly have done the job. And even the most casual observer of the war knows that this won't help boost support in any meaningful way. Read Josh Marshall's excellent piece written within the last couple of days.

So yes, we staged it, but no we weren't players in the final act. I've given many reasons in my posts in this thread for why the Americans as executioners theory is off base, you and others supporting it have given anything close to a decent argument as to why the US would take such a risk.

by American troops?

he was executed in the same building in which he'd been imprisoned. I'll try and find out.

That is what I'm trying to find out also.

From the BBC:

"It took place in an Iraqi compound known by the Americans as 'Camp Justice', a secure facility in the northern Baghdad suburb of Khadimeya, outside the Green Zone."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6218675.stm

Evidently he was held up til his execution at Camp Cropper

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/29/D8MADP600.html


Evidently Camp Cropper is quite close to the airport so it's not in the Green Zone, I gather. Are Camp Cropper and Camp Justice one in the same? Or are they in the same compound? I still can't figure that out, though as I said, I could swear I read a story saying he was executed in close proximity to where he was held.

That's it!..Thanks.

that Saddam was taken by US guards to the execution room and turned
over to the Iraqis there. The article said the guards then left the room,
and that no Americans were present for the actual execution.

That makes sense to me. There were enough Iraqis there to control the
situation. But, if Bushco thinks that this will somehow improve the way
we are viewed by the ME, I think they are mistaken.

So long as they knew where he was. I was trying to rationalize this in a way that I think this Administration thinks...That is very possible and logical.

to insure there were no problems. If I can find the article I referred to,
I will post the link.

for the info. I just could not imagine the Americans turning Saddam over and not knowing where he was right up to the moment the rope snapped...

and indicated you have no plans to do so. Nonetheless, you have opinions based on not having seen it.

U.S. forces putting Saddam to death does not "presume(sic) a conspiracy theory". As you said, none is needed.

We're to believe the U.S. just cannot train an effective group of security forces who are ready to keep order in Iraq, but that Saddam Hussein was handed over to these supposed inept dolts, knowing there are many who'd try to free him if they had the chance?

The use of Special Ops to execute Saddam has nothing to do with a shoratge of people willing to do it. You seemed to suggest that it had been offered as a reason.

Yes, the US had custody of Saddam, even during his hearing.

But it seemed like there was a definite "handing over" to the al-Maliki Shi'a government that took place.

From there, it was their show.

They woud permit Al Sadr followers to come into the American-held prison that was holding Saddam and take him out without American troops escorting him? If they were escorting him to the gallows, would they not put hoods over their heads also? Just asking...

have handed him over to Iraqi officials- not Al-Sadr's men- who escorted Saddam to the execution site and then handed him over to the Al-Sadr henchman. As I said, I believe the gallows was constructed within the same complex as where he was imprisoned.

I think they were. Of course, we have no way to prove it or not. It was just my impression that a couple of the men in the footage where they putting the hanging cloth around Saddam's neck, acted differently. They acted like American military, even with the hoods over their heads. Just my impression.

I am a member of the Army, how does one act like American military??? From what my friend Grant told me (still in Baghdad) Saddam was transported by Iraqi forces off of Cropper to the execution site. There was a prisioner transfer where the Iraqis had to sign for Saddam, the same way we turn over all our other prisoners in Iraq over to the locals. They were handpicked men, they transported him, set him up and pulled the lever. My friend is just grunt but he is in the Green Zone, he said once we signed Saddam over we had nothing to do with the execution.

Iraqis do that?

moves the Saddam Era Iraqi Army executed during the course of the duty day.

What does this question mean???

that a couple of the hooded guys appeared to be American, that's all. I can't prove they were. That was only my impression. Since I cannot prove it, I should not have mentioned it?? American soldiers do have a way of putting their hands behind their backs and carrying themselves that the Iraqis may imitate, I would admit.

now that is a question that makes sense, since the Iraqi military and police forces have been retrained by Americans then yes it makes perfect sense that their Parade Rest, Attention and At ease would closely resemble Americans.

I got the same impression looking at the supposed "Arabs" who stood behind Nick Berg before he was beheaded.

I can't understand why this semes too far-fetched for some people. :shrug:

but the fact that they wore no uniforms and had their faces covered tells you all you want to know about the TRUE security situation in that country

from the Nick Berg video, on the method of execution was different.

"Moqtada! Moqtada! Moqtada!"

From what I saw, it seemed quite obvious they were Iraqi based on their accents, and I saw ZERO reason to hypothesize or otherwise that they could've been American. Why would they have been? This is just another preposterous theory put forth by those who are never satisfied unless there's some sort of controversy or conspiracy they can blather on about.

I think it could have been a matter of Americans being there amongst Iraqis to ensure Saddam didn't escape or put up too much of a fight and that the execution took place.

And we cannot put stupidity past this administration with such matters.

By the way, it's kind of offensive that you're writing me off as a conspiracy theorist when I made no such indication.

Even the question implies such, even your further statement of "I think it could have been a matter of Americans being there amongst Iraqis to ensure Saddam didn't escape or put up too much of a fight and that the execution took place." implies such.

I wasn't really saying you were a conspiracy theorist, as my response wasn't solely directed at you. You merely asked the question, which means you are seeking existence of a conspiracy. My direct statements would be more towards those who are actually putting forth the theory that there is actually any legitimacy to the ridiculous notion that the hooded men were Americans.

Some things just are what they are. This is one of those times.

I don't think it is a ridiculous notion at all. Why is it impossible?

Nothing's ever impossible, but that doesn't make it reasonable or of rational mind to consider to be true, either.

Before the execution?

You turn saddam over to the govt. he will end up torn limb from limb while people drink his blood. And wouldn't the world press have a field day with that one. If you keep him til the last minute, you can pretty much ensure his execution the way the court demanded because there would not be enough time to get people in place that would desecrate the body as I mentioned beforehand.

"he will end up torn limb from limb while people drink his blood" ..Hmmm.. Sounds illegal?

we would turn over a POW so that justice could be carried out. Keeping the time and place secret limits the chances that he can be undone in a most barbaric way. Again you are trying to be cute. You still have not told me how men in hoods "act military".

You are in the military and you don't think military actions can be distinguished from normal civilians? In body language and actions? Perhaps things have changed more than I know? That is very possible.

seen the video phone plus the google video. I see nothing to tell me that Americans are present. I see Police and maybe an Iraqi army type.....That's about it. Again with the police and Iraqi army trained by american military or american police contractors, many of them veterans of your age, no I see no evidence of americans being in the room. I am looking at this objectively and I am not seeing it man.

Do you think this is logical explanation?

there were Americans nearby as the execution site was an Iraqi section of an american base. We were discussing in the room if I remember correctly.

They may have left the room before the rope snapped. Off the subject matter, do you think it would help if the US gave up the Green Zone? If they did , what would happen, in your opinion?

Just because you don't like the obviousness of the topic of focus, doesn't mean we're gonna start a conversation on a separate topic.

The topic is whether or not the people under the hoods were Americans. The obvious, logical, rational and common sense answer is no, they weren't.

as illogical and irrational as it seems to me...

I'm dyin to hear your reasoning for why an obvious and common sense deduction that they were Iraqi's is illogical and irrational. You said that it is, even though almost the entire world agrees with it. So are you just saying things for sake of saying them, or do you TRULY believe that believing the executioners were Iraqi is illogical and irrational? If you do truly believe that, then I implore you to explain just how, exactly. That should be quite interesting.

apparently out of touch with reality because I like being in the military.

But I do not think the Americans were absent from the event. It is not logical or rational to think that the Americans would turn Saddam over to the incompetent Iraqis (remember the comments about Maliki) for even one second and not know where he is being taken and not be present to make sure he is taken to the point of execution. Since he was in possession of the US military, it seems logical that the US military would escort him to the site of his execution and then let the mob have him. I think it is naive to think the US did not call the shots on this execution. If Bush, Cheney, and Gates did not want him executed, he would be alive today, no matter what the Iraqi government wanted.

As someone in a post above noted, it was reported he was escorted to the building of the execution and the AMericans then stood outside the door as the execution was taking place. That is logical to me. I only asked if the people in the video were Iraqi or American? Obviously neither of us can say for sure, although a couple seemed to be Caucasian, they did have masks on. I am simply trying to piece together how this murder was carried out.

But I read the last line and I deleted the post. Kentuck, I'm sure you are a great guy, the last sentence means there is a gulf of understanding between us that cannot be bridged. I do not believe the haning of saddam was murder. It was justice, I believe our best course of action is on this particular item to agree to disagree. Have a safe and happy new year and I will look forward to talking to you about other items in the future.

That's what I said to begin with: The people in the masks were not Americans, and to think they were is completely illogical. Thank you for your agreement. :hi:

I still think we may have seen a couple of Americans. I don't think they pulled the switch, so to speak. They only threw the dog in the water - it was up to the Iraqis to hold its head under the water... (Remember the staged event of pulling over Saddam's statue when the troops first entered Baghdad?)

I guess some will always want to believe anything, no matter how illogical or baseless, just for sake of being atypical. What can ya do. :shrug:

and play in the surf........:D

:)

If not those in masks, still watching to make sure that the hanging happened. Of course they would be.

n/t

I think you may end up being surprised on this question?

feel we will be surprised. It makes no sense.

No Americans.

They were wearing ski masks.

So what makes you think they were Americans?

Skin color?

Western mannerisms?

Why is that such a conspiratorial question? I'm supposed to believe it is impossible? Or that the Americans would never do such a thing? Why do you suggest it could not be Americans??

Why would americans be needed to take Saddam to the execution chamber? Why would Americans need to be in ski masks to be there? Why Why Why???

Saddam is the "Big Prize" in the war. The President has his pistol - that was taken from him when he was captured - in the little room just off the Oval Office, which he shows to friends..

When you have the Big Prize, you do not let it our of your site, as if he were a captured private in the Republican Guard. My guess, and we can only guess, is that the Americans never let the Big Prize out of their site until the rope had snapped. I don't know for sure and neither do you. We can only give our opinion. You can call it impossible and a conspiracy theory if you like.

I have friends still in Iraq that are privy to more info than you or I. I have heard a little from them and granted they don't know everything, but they do hear things. Moreso than you or I, and the word on the street is that Saddam was signed over the Iraqis and then escorted only by the Iraqis to the chamber.

As for your "big prize" theory, that is silly. The big prize was in much more danger from Iraqis than from us. It makes no sense to send americans to "make sure the job was done" because the Iraqis were more than willing to do it themselves.

And Saddam was "protected" from them by the Americans. That means they were the "enemy" of Saddam. The Americans handed Saddam over to the enemy. He was a POW, by that definition. International law is suppposed to prevent any POW from being turned over to their enemy. But, that is not relevant in this discussion.

As for what your "friends" hear in Iraq, are they in the Green Zone? From all the reports, there were very few people involved in the transfer of Saddam. Of course, they had to "transfer" him. We could not hang him ourselves. But, the question is, when he was transferred, did we just wash our hands and not follow the mob to the gallows? Yes, they were a "mob".

turned over to the elected government of Iraq. So yes it is relevant, the elected govt. regardless of what you or I think of them are the representatives of Iraq, turning over Saddam to the govt. is not a violation of a law as far as I am concerned.

As for my friends, as a matter of fact they are in the Green Zone. As was I before I came home. And if you know soldiers, you know it is almost impossible to keep a secret, especially one as juicy as what happened to saddam.

I was Vietnam veteran, probably before you were born. Some things soldiers can know, and some things they do not know. They are in their own little universe most of the time.

great, you and my dad were in Vietnam. What does that mean in regards to this???

Also I believe the All volunteer Army to be a different beast than the Draftee army. Just my opinion and my observation for how my dad and his friends talk about their service and how I and my friends do the same.

The Army veteran of today seems to be very different from the Vietnam veteran of my day. Does anyone in the volunteer military challenge authority? Or do they just do as they are ordered?

I am quite happy in the Army, I was quite happy when the awesome Bill Clinton was Prez..... What exactly am I supposed to be doing??

and the structure of the military. You don't mind taking orders. You don't question authority. Don't take this too unkindly, but I think you are not in touch with the big picture. I think you should read Eisenhower's Farewell Address about the MIC...

another person deigns to tell me what reality is. I am quite in touch with the big picture, I am college educated and I read voraciously. I like the military because I like my country. I like the military because it allows me to do many other things I could not do if I was in a 9-5 job. Again I am polite but it is quite frustrating when people tell me they know more about me than I do.

I guess you will be accepted. :)

I am a soldier I have orders to follow whether they come from bush, clinton, Kucinich or ugh...........Pat Buchanan.....

Not a suckup, just mindful of my oath and my duty.

You swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States - not to follow the orders of an insane leader.

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."


I am doing that right now. Look I do not care for the President too much, but he is the elected leader, until he is brought up on charges, arrested or confesses to war crimes he is the leader and I must respect that. I will not lift a finger to do anything to bring the end to his presidency. That would be treason and I don't like Kansas (Fort Leavenworth) Anything you say to the contrary I will ignore. Look it's not personal you sound quite intelligent, but my duty is to my country and as of today that man is the leader of this country. No matter what you or I wanted in november 2004 that is reality.

I'm not sure if it says anything about "unlawful" orders. You're an educated person by your own admission, so I'm sure you are familiar with the Nazi, "we were just following orders"? Where will you draw the line?

been deemed to be illegal??

I won't fire on americans........

...and rules about torture? Or turning over POWs in your possession to other entities? Or executing POWs?

quite familar, we have yearly training on it.

Look if your goal is to try and paint me in a corner, I won't play your game. I am an active duty soldier, I have rules to follow, I must listen to the President, hopefully in two years we will have Gen, Clark as our President and I can feel better.

Abu Ghraib was a disgrace. Saddam Hussein was turned over to the govt. of Iraq. No matter what you or I think of that govt. it is the govt. I do not believe Saddam was ever an actual Prisoner of War, and the Iraqis executed Saddam not us.

I am not a bug to be toyed with, I do not enjoy someone trying to pin me up against the wall. I do what I do to fulfill my duty, my honor and my oath. Spin it however you wish, that is what I do. Now if you will excuse me, it is a nice day and I have been indoors far too long.

I'm still waiting for him/her to explain to me how they acted like American military?????

BTW I agree with you, there is no evidence that they are anything but Iraqi men.

are you talking about?? Did you see something no one else saw? Do you know for a fact not one American was at the scene of the execution? I am not as sure as you.

for an American to be there. It is a violation of every statue of prisoner transfer in Iraq, it would enflame tensions if it leaked out, and you can be certain Mehdi army guys would tell the world Americans were there. There are numerous reasons for Americans to not be there and not one good reason to think they would. Basically your whole premise appears to be that because some Iraqis assumed Parade rest they are Americans in disguise. Do you have other evidence???

"..it would enflame tensions if it leaked out.."

we do it?

in a military situation that is one of the biggest fuck-ups in the history of this nation's history. Burn the house down before you leave. Kill Saddam and the psychopath that is your Commander in Chief (not mine) will get his rocks off and can say he "won" as your buddies continue to die under the belief that you are fighting for something moral and right, when in fact, it is a criminal act. But, you, no doubt, think otherwise.

that's one theory.

tomayto, tomahto.

that's a very, very good question.

It had not dawned upon me.

thanks.

and happy new year :hi:

that would make him the ultimate decider then wouldn't it...........:D

What kind of job do you think he has done, under the circumstances?

Iraq he has bungled it beyond belief. He is my Commander in chief so I will say nothing ill about him, needless to say I did not vote for him in 2004.

It appears you are trying to be cute and try and pin me down as being a Bush supporter. I am a supporter as far as he is the elected President of this country and I have take an oath to support the Constitution as well as his orders and the orders of the officers over me in accordance with UCMJ.

I did not vote for the man, do not like his Iraq policy, but he is my leader so I will do what is asked of me. There is nothing shameful in this position, I am a democrat and a good progressive, but the reality is he is the President no matter how I wish he wasn't. Therefore I am obligated to do my duty.

How does this bear on this conversation???

I was considering, based on some of your comments, of asking you the very same question.

Bush is a "leader"? :wow:

of this country. No matter how I wanted a real military man in there, this is what we got. I have to listen to him for 2 more years and then I can breathe easier like I did from 1995-2000.

And I am not being rude. I am being honest, he has avoided answering several of my questions and has "like stephanie" gone right up the insult line and then backed off. We are talking about Saddam and whether americans escorted him or not. It seems for a newbie to disagree with Kentucks premise is enough to question my political leanings. I call them like I see them. I have been polite, and will continue to do so.


Edit: I have no hard feelings towards kentuck, my wife is from Kentucky, as I assume this poster is.

He was appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000. The '04 elections were rigged.

El momo lied us and the military that you love into a war.

Sickening.

weren't the 06 elections rigged?

I'm sorry, I find this particular theory laughable, the evidence isn't convincing.

Too many people wanted the repukes out of office and wanted a lame duck pres.

You are showing your ignorance by stating the proven facts laughable.

NTW, the Dems take over in just a few days. Investigations will bring their dirty, criminal deeds to light.

When did you join up?

And I'm sorry I do not agree. I still want to talk to you about other issues. I think i'm fairly intelligent and have studied Bev Harris and other theroists on this subject. I do not believe 2004 was stolen, if it was easy to take 2004 it would have been easier to take 2006 as they would have refined their tactics. What would stop them??

And too many people becoming aware of voting problems.

I didn't think you were in the least bit hostile or rude, and I don't see how anyone could think that. You want rude and mocking in this thread, take a look at my posts- and no one questioned my dem credentials. I suspect it's the newbie thing. Anyway I'm glad to see you posting, and thanks for your service.

I have pretty thick skin, it's just twice in 24 hours someone tried to create my reality for me, as if I am not smart enough to know what I believe in........

If you can't stand the heat, you will get out of the kitchen... Like tempered steel, it make make you stronger? :)

there's the problem, Jarheads irritate me....... :D just kidding

:) Our job is to find the truth. The mainstream media has deserted us. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. We believe we should afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. We believe that someone must always question those in power, Democrats or Republicans. Greed knows no limits, in the military or in the private sector. The people must guard both of them. We are the people.

:shrug:

n/t

If so, then we know this was a conspiracy!

see an Orange jumpsuit either......... :D

Heavy thick clothing as to make them look larger? That is what I noticed about all of them....

cold in Baghdad that night.

December in Baghdad makes me forget about february in Korea. It's not as cold, but it feels that way.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I do believe it's very possible that there were Americans in the room. Or that Americans handed Saddam over right outside the room and then watched from a live camera, waiting to make sure the execution was done "properly."

Why is that so hard to believe, and why does it make other posters here so upset? The stakes were sky high, and there were too many things that could have gone wrong in the final moments--say the trap didn't open or the noose wasn't placed properly on Saddam or the person supposed to pull the level didn't pull it. Can you imagine how bad that would have looked for the bush administration?

and they scrambled his face? Obviously did not want the identities of anyone shown. Which makes sense at such a scene.