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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:24 AM
Original message
Moussaoui defense "What knowledge government had before 9/11" ABLE DANGER
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2006/03/05/2003295905

......

Moussaoui's defense team underscored its plans to focus attention on the federal government's pre-attack actions by subpoenaing testimony from US Representative Curt Weldon (Republican, Pennsylvania). The 10-term lawmaker investigated a super-secret Pentagon intelligence operation known as "Able Danger" that raised the possibility that US officials knew about the Sept. 11 plot before it was carried out.

US District Court Judge Leonie Brinkema last Thursday rejected defense lawyers' subpoena for Weldon, but granted defense lawyers' request for testimony by three specialists involved with the "Able Danger" program.


The acknowledge al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui has been a volatile figure in the courtroom.
PHOTO: AP

"What knowledge the government possessed before Sept. 11 regarding members of al-Qaeda, and specifically links between al-Qaeda and the eventual hijackers, is a key issue in dispute in this death penalty trial," Brinkema said in her written order.

It is unknown if Moussaoui's lawyers also subpoenaed high-ranking officials, such as Tenet or US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, because the court has sealed the list of witnesses.

But Moussaoui's defense lawyers can draw upon evidence of government missteps from the exhaustive findings of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the US.


http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/14225641p-15049903c.html

Suit airs Able Danger claims
Two operatives in secret program say their lawyers were barred at hearings.
By James Rosen -- Bee Washington Bureau
Published 2:15 am PST Saturday, March 4, 2006
Story appeared on Page A12 of The Bee
WASHINGTON - Two operatives at the center of the Able Danger controversy have sued the Defense Department for denying them contact with their lawyers during closed congressional hearings and other probes of the covert intelligence program.

Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and J.D. Smith were among a dozen intelligence officers and contractors who worked on the clandestine program set up long before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to track al-Qaida. They are accusing the Pentagon and two of its largest components - the Army and the Defense Intelligence Agency - of violating their First Amendment rights by blocking their access to legal counsel during the closed sessions.


The lawsuit, filed Monday with the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, marks the first time that the incendiary claims at the center of the Able Danger saga have been made in court.
"Able Danger identified the Sept. 11, 2001, attack leader Mohamed Atta, and three of the 9/11 plot's 19 hijackers, as possible members of an al-Qaida cell linked to the 1993 World Trade Center attack or its participants," the suit said.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Only reason FBI got Moussaoui was DEMOCRATIC Congressmen...
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 01:02 AM by Octafish
...The Flight School instructors called the FAA and reported a student who wasn't interested in learning how to take off and land; the guy only wanted to know how to use GPS and make the 747 turn.

The flight instructors thought they had a terrorist on their hands. The FAA told them to call the FBI in Minneapolis. They said call Washington.

FBI Washington said "Fuhgedaboudid." The flight school wasn't going to take "No" for an answer, so they called their Democratic U.S. Rep. Oberstar and Sabo who got through and lit a fire under Freeh or somebody.



The strange case of Zacarias Moussaoui: FBI refused to investigate man charged in September 11 attacks

By Patrick Martin
5 January 2002

EXCERPT...

FBI refusal to act

The instructor and a vice president of the flight school briefed two Democratic congressmen from the Minneapolis area in November about their repeated efforts to get the FBI to take an interest in Moussaoui’s conduct. Their accounts were first reported in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, then in the New York Times December 22.

The vice president of the flight school, who briefed Minnesota Congressmen James Oberstar and Martin Sabo, said it took four to six phone calls to the FBI to find an agent who would help. The instructor became so frustrated by the lack of response that he gave a prescient warning to the FBI that “a 747 loaded with fuel can be used as a bomb.”

Investigation blocked in Washington

Moussaoui was detained by the Immigration and Naturalization Service on charges of violating the terms of his visa. Local FBI investigators in Minneapolis immediately viewed Moussaoui as a terrorist suspect and sought authorization for a special counterintelligence surveillance warrant to search the hard drive of his home computer. This was rejected by higher-level officials in Washington, who claimed there was insufficient evidence to meet the legal requirements for the warrant.

FBI agents tracked Moussaoui’s movements to the Airman Flight School in Norman, Oklahoma, where he logged 57 hours of flight time earlier in 2001 but was never allowed to fly on his own because of his poor skills. This alone should have set off alarm bells, since a confessed Al Qaeda operative, Abdul Hakim Murad, had trained at the same school, as part of preparations for a suicide hijack attack on CIA headquarters. Murad testified about these plans in the 1996 trial of Ramzi Ahmed Yusef, the principal organizer of the 1993 World Trade Center car-bombing.

SNIP...

FBI officials responded indirectly to this criticism, flatly denying the account of the warning given by the flight school personnel. “The notion of flying a plane into a building or using it as a bomb never came up,” one senior official to the Washington Post January 2. “It was a straight hijacking scenario that they were worried about.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/mous-j05.shtml





You know, 'Dreamy, we're talking about a government led by traitors?

Moussaoui is all BEFORE 9-11. Ashkkkroft, Freeh, Sneer and the crazy monkey wanted nothing to do with getting a FISA warrant for Moussaoui's laptop.

Funny not having a FISA warrant didn't stop them from getting what they wanted from NSA. I imagine the same holds true for the FBI.

EDIT: stuff
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Help me find and kill terrorist agitators!
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 01:03 AM by seemslikeadream
:hi:

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sibel Edmonds Ready to Talk
Why has the Monkey House gone through such hoops to keep the lid on papers, whistleblowers and truth?

Gee. Could Bush and Co. have something to hide?

Damn right.



FBI WHISTLEBLOWER SIBEL EDMONDS IS READY TO TALK!

'Gag Ordered' Former Translator Seeks to Tell Congress and the American People What She Knows
Online Petition Launched Calling on Congress to Hold Joint Public Hearings by the Senate and House Judiciary Committees to Finally Allow the Truth of Her Allegations to be Told...


BradBlog

She's fought her case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. It was the very same day that the façade cracked on the front of the building and a...

She's fought her case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. It was the very same day that the façade cracked on the front of the building and a chunk of marble -- just above an allegorical statue representing "Order" and just below the words "Equal Justice" -- came crashing to the ground. The highest court in the land refused to hear her case.

Along the way, the Dept. of Justice has done everything in their power (and then some) to keep her quiet. They invoked the rarely used "State Secrets Privilege" to shut her up -- going so far as to use it, without explanation, to remove her and her own attorneys from the courtroom when arguing their case against her.

In at least two unclassified Senate briefings, FBI officials confirmed the validity of her reports, but the information from those briefings was then retroactively classified by the DoJ -- which served to gag the Congress from further investigation on the matter. The DoJ even retroactively classified a 60 Minutes profile on her -- after it had already aired!

All of that, even after the DoJ's own Inspector General's report found Sibel Edmonds' allegations to be "credible" and "serious" and "warrant a thorough and careful review by the FBI." The unclassified version of that report was only released by the DoJ after prodding from Congressional members and the 9/11 Commission.

CONTINUED...

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002496.htm#More





Edmonds has the goods on just about everybody, from traitors in the FBI to traitors in Congress and traitors in the Pentagon and the traitors in the Chimpzekutive branch. And by the way some judges are acting toward her, they're showing signs of fear of imprisonment.

Who knows? Maybe the truth will out.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R n/t
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. So is his defense that he was working for the USG?
I don't get it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh yes you do BUDDY BUDDY, file83
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 09:24 AM by seemslikeadream
:hi:
BUDDY BUDDY
http://www.gsnmagazine.com.nyud.net:8090/images/aug_05/atta.jpg
DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER
WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/124834/678


DIA Agents were ordered to put yellow Post-its over Atta's face and the face's of 3 other 9/11 terrorists

"We were directed to take those 3M yellow stickers and place them over the faces of Atta and the other terrorists and pretend they didn't exist," the intelligence officer told GSN."

Intel agents Michael Shaffer and Scott Philpott have confirmed Rep. Weldon's claims that a chart with Atta's face, soon the photos of 3 other members of the 9-11 terror team, were known to DIA team Able Danger by early 2000.

This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose.

Of this there can no longer be any doubt.



MUST READ - RE: ABLE DANGER INFO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4447706

Hopsicker: Able Danger Intel Exposed "Protected" Heroin Trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x149481


Able Danger: Short Time-line
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4441903

Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4494524



Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
Thursday, August 25, 2005


Able Danger (search) is the code name for a military-intelligence unit that apparently learned a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks that lead hijacker Mohamed Atta (search) and other terrorists were already in the United States.

One of the central Able Danger claims — that military lawyers blocked the sharing of the Atta information from the FBI in the late summer and early fall of 2000 — will be a focus of the committee's if a hearing takes place, FOX News has confirmed.

Some analysts involved with Able Danger have recently gone public with their findings, saying they were discouraged from looking further into Atta, and their attempts to share their information with the FBI were thwarted, because Atta was a legal foreign visitor at the time.

"This story needs to be told. The American people need to be told what could have been done to prevent 3,000 people from losing their lives," said Rep. Curt Weldon (search), R-Pa.

Weldon drew attention to Able Danger by speaking about it on the House floor and publicly calling for the Sept. 11 commission to explain why the intelligence information wasn't detailed in its final report.

Some Able Danger analysts, including Army Reserve Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (search) and Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott (search), claim that in October 2003, they told commission staffers of the presence of Al Qaeda operatives in the United States in 2000.


more
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166800,00.html


Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1727804&mesg_id=1727804




Condi in Middle of Able Danger ‘Cover Up’"

Weldon is now saying that the Pentagon cover up of able danger “will shake the country to its roots."

...

If the claims made by the Able Danger participants and Rep. Weldon are confirmed, former National Security Adviser Rice and other Bush Administration officials will face a barrage of questions. First would likely be an inquiry into why the administration unceremoniously axed the Able Danger project in May of 2001.

During an August 20th interview on C-Span’s Washington Journal, Able Danger member Lt. Col. Schaffer posed a question of his own:

"The American public should ask themselves: Why would the leadership of DoD shut down, terminate, a project which was aimed at targeting al-Qaeda offensively? ...

"Why would they shut that down, four months before 9/11? That’s the big question right now, we have to ask that. I don’t know the answer to that question because I know my side of the story, I know that when a 2 star general got in my face and said, “I’m a 2 star general and you are not. You are to stop your support of Able Danger.” That’s what I know personally. But the question has to be: Who told him to do that? ...

"And why did the rest of the project, I’m talking about Special Operations Command and the Army portion of this, why was that terminated?

"Those are the questions that need to be asked."


more...

http://www.theinternationalpost.com/z30082005.html

Congressman Weldon -- Why now? Why ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4500623

Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three more people associated with a secret U.S. military intelligence team have asserted that the program identified September 11 ringleader Mohammed Atta as an Al Qaeda suspect inside the United States more than a year before the 2001 attacks, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

The Pentagon said a three-week review had turned up no documents to back up the assertion, but did not rule out that such documents relating to the classified operation had been destroyed.

Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott and Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer last month came forward with statements that a secret intelligence program code-named "Able Danger" had identified Atta, the lead hijacker in the attacks that killed 3,000 people, in early 2000. Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), vice chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, also went public with the allegations.

Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst in the office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, told reporters that as part of the review, the Pentagon interviewed 80 people.

Downs said that three more people, as well as Phillpott and Shaffer, recalled the existence of an intelligence chart identifying Atta by name. Four of the five recalled a photo of Atta accompanying the chart, Downs said.

Pentagon officials declined to identify the three by name, but said they were an analyst with the military's Special Operations Command, an analyst with the Land Information Warfare Assessment Center and a contractor who supported the center.

Downs said all five were considered "credible people."

But officials said an exhaustive search of tens of thousands of documents and electronic files related to Able Danger failed to find the chart or other documents corroborating the identification of Atta. Phillpott has said Atta was identified by Able Danger by January or February of 2000.

"We have not discovered that chart," Downs said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/security_attacks_pentagon_dc


Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1744982&mesg_id=1744982

Specter Wants Answers About 'Able Danger'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1796658&mesg_id=1796658


NYT/Reuters: Pentagon Blocks Testimony at Senate Hearing on Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1795221&mesg_id=1795221

NOW - ON CAPITOL HILL - Able Danger Inquiry CSPAN3 9:30am et
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4836496

Able Danger ties Condi Rice to Chinese espionage! (really!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4846388&mesg_id=4846388

VIDEO-the Senate Judicial Committee ABLE DANGER saga
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Official: (Curt Weldon) Attack on Cole foreseen (ABLE DANGER)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1915365&mesg_id=1915365

New 9/11 Timeline update, with new Able Danger page
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Weldon seeks Defense testimony on al-Qaida
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1931300

Weldon rips 9/11 commission over intelligence failures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1959226

General gave OK for Able Danger (confirms al-Qaida mission prior to 9/11)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1973724
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. k & R
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why would the government want to put to death a witness to the biggest...
...crime perpetuated on American soil?

Even if the guy is guilty of participating in the plot, what he knows may help prevent future attacks.



The Terrorist Motel

The I-40 connection between Zacarias Moussaoui and Mohamed Atta


by Jim Crogan

WHAT HAPPENED AT THE NONDESCRIPT ROADSIDE motel outside Oklahoma City was just a fleeting encounter during the twisted cross-country odyssey of the terrorists who would carry out the September 11 attacks. Mohamed Atta, alleged leader of the plot, and two companions wanted to rent a room, but couldn't get the deal they wanted, so they left.
It was an incident of no particular importance, except for one thing. The owner of the motel remembers Atta being in the company of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called "20th hijacker," who was arrested prior to September 11 and now faces conspiracy charges in connection with the terror assaults.

If this recollection is correct, the entire incident, and its absence from the public record, raises new questions about the FBI investigation of Moussaoui and even the 1995 destruction of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Already the FBI has endured a withering political and media critique for failing to aggressively investigate Moussaoui and his contacts during his four weeks in custody prior to the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Some FBI officials have responded by characterizing Moussaoui as only a minor player. But the report from the motel owner, if proven, could change that. And it also could force the FBI to reopen its investigation of Middle Eastern connections to the 1995 Oklahoma City blast, because convicted bombers Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols reportedly stayed at the same motel, interacting with a group of Iraqis during the weeks before the bombing.

AT PRESS TIME, THE ERRATIC MOUSSAOUI, WHO IS representing himself, was attempting to plead guilty and bring his trial to a close. The 34-year-old French citizen of Moroccan descent had previously filed some 94 hand-scrawled, rambling motions attacking the government's case and its right to prosecute him.

But that circus obscures a conundrum of a different sort. The government's case, as outlined in its new six-count conspiracy indictment, is largely circumstantial, lacking any definitive link between Moussaoui and the 19 hijackers identified by federal authorities. All of which makes the apparent shelving of the Moussaoui-Atta sighting all the stranger. In fact, even though multiple sources contend that the FBI interviewed the motel owner, there's no indication that prosecutors were told. It's possible that the FBI found the motel owner's identifications wrong or his story unreliable. But it's still odd that, in interviews with the Weekly, Justice Department prosecutors seemed to know nothing about the motel encounter, especially because agents reportedly told the motel owner they would pass the information on to Moussaoui's defense team.

CONTINUED Google Cache...

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:23_mo8D3-LsJ:www.laweekly.com/ink/02/36/news-crogan.php+moussaoui+connections&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2



Gee. Connects to a lot of things, from Oklahoma City to Iraq -- and not in the way Rumsferatu and Co. would like.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Si. I don't think this guy is going to survive suicide much longer.
I haven't the vaguest idea what he really did or did not do, but I want to know what he knows about our government's involvement in 9-11. This case is phenomenal to me.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Where are those 'lone gunmen' when you need them ? Or Jack Ruby LOL
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Should Moussaoui Have Been A Witness Instead of a Defendant?
The guy's story does not fit with the other 19.

Why? Was he a decoy? Does Moussaoui even know what side he's on?

Unless we get him to talk, instead of locked up in a psych ward or buried in the prison graveyard, we'll lose a window into the terror flying student aspect, at the very least.



Should Moussaoui Have Been A Witness Instead of a Defendant?

TalkLeft blog
Tuesday :: September 24, 2002

Seymour Hersh writes a very long profile on Zacarias Moussaoui in the new issue of The New Yorker available here. Hersh tackles the question, "Has the Justice Department mishandled the case against Zacarias Moussaoui?" In other words, would we have been better off if we had made a deal with Moussaoui to spare his life in exchange for his information on Al Qaeda rather than bring him to a public trial where some of our sensitive information gets broadcast to the world?

In answering, Hersh begins by outlining the differences in conduct between Moussaoui and the 19 hijackers:

"If the government's case is built on the similarities between Moussaoui's activities and those of the known hijackers, it must account for the fact that, though he shared their allegiance to Al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden, his behavior in America was strikingly different from theirs. The government has found evidence of e-mails and meetings among the nineteen, but none between any of them and Moussaoui. The hijackers tried to fit in to American life?drinking in bars, for instance. Moussaoui, while in Oklahoma, remained largely aloof, although he was voluble about his Islamic beliefs. He criticized members of a mosque in Norman for not lowering their gaze when meeting women and for looking at lightly clad cheerleaders. "He went around making a nuisance of himself everywhere he went," Frank W. Dunham, Jr., the federal public defender in charge of Moussaoui's defense team, said. "He was not flying under the radar by any means." Another Moussaoui attorney depicted him as "wearing his fundamentalism on his sleeve," and said, "He was incredibly argumentative?always."

Also of note is the high bar the Justice Department has set for itself in seeking the death penalty against him:

"It accused Moussaoui of a level of involvement that included advance knowledge of the plans, and of the scope and intent of the mission. In this view, he wasn't just a candidate for the twentieth hijacker: he was one of the actual hijackers in all but the final execution, and was prevented from acting on his intentions only by his arrest. "

CONTINUED...

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/000523.html



Here's the Hersh thing on Moussaoui referenced above:



THE TWENTIETH MAN

by SEYMOUR M. HERSH

Has the Justice Department mishandled the case against Zacarias Moussaoui?

Issue of 2002-09-30
Posted 2002-09-23

About six years ago, Zacarias Moussaoui, who is now facing trial on capital charges as the alleged twentieth man in the September 11th aircraft hijackings, travelled to Chechnya with a childhood friend to join separatists in their fight against Russian control. At the time, young men from throughout the Muslim world were arriving in the region, which was regarded, after the Russian defeat in Afghanistan, as the site of a new jihad. Moussaoui was a Frenchman of Moroccan descent, and his friend was also from an immigrant family. Evidently, Moussaoui did not impress his superiors in the operation. When the Chechens decided that the foreign volunteers were more trouble than they were worth, Moussaoui was told to leave. (His friend was invited to stay, and was later killed, reportedly while filming combat scenes for an Islamic Web site.) "They sent Moussaoui packing," one of the lawyers appointed to represent him told me. "Who wants him around? He brought nothing to the table. He's trouble."

In February, 2001, Moussaoui showed up at the Airman Flight School, in Norman, Oklahoma. He was now thirty-two, and had continued to travel in pursuit of fundamentalist causes. He had been in Afghanistan (where he is alleged to have spent time in an Al Qaeda training camp), in Pakistan, and in Malaysia, while maintaining a base of sorts at a radical mosque in North London. When he arrived in America, two weeks after returning to London from a trip to Pakistan, he told customs he had thirty-five thousand dollars in cash. His sudden interest in flying had led him to pay five thousand dollars, in advance, for a series of lessons that should have allowed him to earn a pilot's license. Over the next three months, Moussaoui took fifty-seven hours of flight instruction, far more than the twenty hours most students need before flying solo. But he left the school in late May without a license.

Moussaoui's foreign travels and his ties to Islamic fundamentalists had brought him to the attention of the French intelligence services. After Moussaoui was arrested here on immigration charges in mid-August of 2001, the French gave the F.B.I. a dossier on him, which, according to an official who reviewed it, documented some of his contacts but provided no specific evidence against him. Nevertheless, the French report came to be viewed as an important missed warning. Americans wondered if the F.B.I. and other government agencies, with the "twentieth hijacker" in custody, had bungled the chance to put the pieces together and possibly stop the attacks.

The assumption of government bungling was predicated on the assumption that Moussaoui was indeed the twentieth hijacker. (There were five hijackers on each of the three planes that hit their targets, but only four on the flight that went down in Pennsylvania.) Moussaoui has said in federal court that he was a member of Al Qaeda, but he has denied any involvement in the hijackings. Many present and former F.B.I. and C.I.A. officials have told me that they believe he was "a wanna-be," as one put it, and far too volatile and unstable to handle a long-term undercover terrorist operation. Nevertheless, they said, Moussaoui may have crucial knowledge about Al Qaeda. "He knew how the system worked and knew how to get in contact," a former C.I.A. official said. The real bungling, this official and others believe, has been the handling of Moussaoui since September 11th and the framing of the indictment against him; for one thing, no federal prosecutor has discussed a plea bargain with him since the indictment, late last year. The case against Moussaoui, like the war on terrorism, is far more complex than the government has revealed.


After his failure at the flight school in Oklahoma, Moussaoui decided to try again, this time in Minnesota. He arrived at the Pan Am International Flight Academy, in Eagan, near St. Paul, on August 11th. According to Clancy Prevost, his instructor, he seemed to be just another wealthy foreigner with a passion for flying—"friendly and amiable." Prevost, a former Navy and Northwest Airlines pilot, said, "I had a terrible time, because he had no knowledge. He knew nothing. He had no spatial skills. But he was a customer, and you wanted to give him his money's worth, and so it boiled down to me just telling him stories. We had lunch and shot the breeze. There was nothing to indicate that this guy was anything other than a genial businessman who liked to hang out with pilots and could tell the girls that he flew a 747."

CONTINUED...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/020930fa_fact



If this guy Moussaoui's put to death, it's just Bush Crime Family S.O.P. "Dead Men Tell No Tales."


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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Just after he was caught he
threatened to kill Ashcroft. I don't have the link on this, it's just something I remember. It just sounded like he was framed: he had a deal and was double crossed.

I'm gonna dig around for this.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. This case is central to unraveling the mechanics of MIHOP IMHO.
People like the Mouseman are hard to off when they are in jail and so high profile. :crazy:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Who does Moussaoui tie to in the Bush Crime Family?
Gee. Something in the back of my mind...a flea, perhaps.



What the 9/11 commission report ignores: the CIA-Al Qaeda connection

By the editorial board
24 July 2004

EXCERPT...

On the most basic level, the 9/11 report is a whitewash. The 567-page document is filled with criticisms of the Bush and Clinton administrations and the performance of the government agencies responsible for intelligence, national security and emergency response. But the commission attributes all of these failures to incompetence, mismanagement, or “failure of imagination.” The fundamental premise of its investigation is that the CIA, the FBI, the US military and the Bush White House all acted in good faith.

SNIP...

The CIA, for instance, failed to notify domestic police agencies after two known Al Qaeda associates—and future 9/11 hijackers—arrived in Los Angeles. The two men, Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who were on a CIA watch list, were at one point listed in the San Diego phone book. They traveled freely during the summer of 2001, when the intelligence suggesting a major Al Qaeda attack reportedly peaked. One of them left the US and reentered without hindrance, while the other renewed his visa.

The commission’s report suggests that the two men had confederates in southern California who have never been named, let alone arrested. “We believe it is unlikely,” the report states, that al-Midhar and al-Hazmi “would have come to the United States without arranging to receive assistance from one or more individuals informed in advance of their arrival.” It is known that at least one FBI informant was involved in providing housing for the two.

The FBI played a key role in burying a series of warnings about the potential danger from Al Qaeda terrorists enrolled at US flight schools, most notably in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui. An admitted Al Qaeda member who was seeking training at a Minnesota flight school, Moussaoui aroused the suspicion of instructors who tipped off the authorities. Moussaoui was detained in August 2001 on immigration charges, and local FBI agents sought authority to investigate—which was denied by FBI higher-ups in Washington, despite the receipt of information from French government sources about Moussaoui’s connections with Islamic terrorists.

SNIP...

While documenting numerous CIA and FBI actions that effectively prevented the exposure of the 9/11 conspiracy, the commission’s report never addresses an obvious and crucial issue: were any of the Al Qaeda operatives, especially the ringleaders and organizers of the suicide hijackings, at some point assets or agents of the US intelligence services?

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jul2004/comm-j24.shtml



CIA. FBI. INS. NSA. DIA. DoJ. DoS. The Pentagon. Etc. Etc. Etc.

No one could've known a thing. Right.

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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Can anyone refresh my memory
Didn't the person who issued the visas have a "suicide" accident - car crash - right before she was to testify?
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. WOW! If it is true it should be another
entry at Bushbodycount.com.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Zacarias is no dummy.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is this a 'contributory negligence' claim ?
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 03:39 PM by EVDebs
After all, as of 9-11 there were only 33 FAA Air Marshals...today there are thousands, per newspaper accounts. And since 1995s Bojinka plan becoming common knowledge, even the airlines themselves knew something like this could occur.

The Able Danger information that has come out so far sure makes the government's coverup efforts look ridiculous

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2146415&mesg_id=2146919

Not to say that Moussoui isn't indeed guilty, if LIHOP or MIHOP were involved. His goose is cooked no matter what.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. the government may look a lot less competent about what it did to stop the
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 04:14 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/14022541.htm

"By the time jurors face a decision on punishment, the government may look a lot less competent about what it did to stop the attacks," Tobias said.

.....

But Moussaoui's court-appointed defense team is ready to urge the jury that the 37-year-old Moroccan-born French citizen should be spared execution because he knew far less about the plot than top officials in the Bush administration, including then-CIA Director George Tenet.

more
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. General gave OK for Able Danger, confirms al Qaida mission
Gee. Seemslikeadream knows more stuff than too many people in government work have no clue about...

Treason, for instance:



General gave OK for Able Danger

Former military chief confirms al-Qaida mission


by James Rosen

December 10, 2005
Knight Ridder - 2005-12-08

Gen. Hugh Shelton, who was the military's top commander during the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, confirmed that four years before the tragedy he authorized a secret computer data-mining initiative to track down Osama bin Laden and operatives in the fugitive terrorist's al-Qaida network.

In his first public comments on the initiative, which some former intelligence officers now say was code-named Able Danger, Shelton also confirmed that he received two briefings on the clandestine mission -- both well before the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Right after I left SOCOM (Special Operations Command), I asked my successor to put together a small team, if he could, to try to use the Internet and start trying to see if there was any way that we could track down Osama bin Laden or where he was getting his money from or anything of that nature," Shelton said Monday in an interview.

"It was just kind of an experiment," Shelton said. "What can we do? So, he pulled together a bunch of really bright, computer-literate guys from across the services."

Shelton's assertions are significant because they raise new questions about the government's knowledge of the al-Qaida network before the Sept. 11 attacks and about the subsequent findings of a commission that Congress set up to probe the attacks.

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROS20051210&articleId=1440



So, Boosh -- and more to the boss, Poppy -- why would you know Atta is leading the effort to teach all these terrorists how to make passenger jets turn left and right and up and down and not raise a finger to stop him?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Prophesy fullfilled Jah bless Octafish
Marcus Garvey's words come to pass,
Marcus Garvey's words come to pass,

Ain't got no food to eat,
Ain't got no money to spend, wo-oo-oo
Ain't got no food to eat,
Ain't got no money to spend, woo-oo-oo

Come, little one and let me do what i can do for you
And you and you alone
Come, little one, come wo-oo-oo
Let me do all i can do for you and you alone, woo-oo-oo

He who knows the right thing
And do it not
Shall be spanked with many stripes,


Weeping and wailing and moaning,
You've got yourself to blame, I tell you.
Do right do right do right do right do right,
Do right do right do right do right do right
Tell ya to do right, woo-oo-oo
Beg ya to do right, woo -oo- oo

Where is bagawire,


he's nowhere to be found
He can't be found
First betrayer who gave away Marcus Garvey
Son of satan, first prophesy,

Catch them, Garvey old

Prophesy fullfilled
Catch them Garvey, catch them woo-oo-oo
Hold them Marcus, hold them woo-oo-oo
Marcus garvey, marcus woo-oo-oo



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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Moussaoui should align with the 9/11 victims in their lawsuit.
I'm sure their lawyer, Stanley Hilton, could use what Moussauoi knows about 9/11 to bolster his case. hee, hee.

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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. K & R! Hmm...are we closer to opening that Pandora's Box yet?
:hi:

:kick:
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No kidding. I don't see how
the rot of the Bushista's can be contained much longer. :hi:
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