Kansas op ed says do not have sex for pleasure.

Attention to all Democrats who are not standing up for women's rights anymore. No, I am not talking to all of you, but I am sure as heck talking to those who are afraid to speak out for us.

This is the result of giving in to this bunch of extremist religious groups. They will NOT compromise with you. They will get their way, you will get nothing.

I have no clue how many Christians really believe this stuff. I know I heard inklings of it before I left my Southern Baptist church after being called unpatriotic for opposing the war. This is the end result of giving in to extremists. You just gave in to them again on the Patriot Act, and I don't even remember what on what other issues who have sold us out. I can not keep up with all the pandering. So just stop it.

Birth control prevents God’s work



She goes on to use the word "pleasure" again in a negative way, saying that it is at the heart of using contraception...or something like that. This is very disturbing. If people believe this, they should keep it as a religious view. It should NOT be legislated, nor should it be presented in such a way as to insult others. And just seeing this as an op ed in a newspaper scares me to death wondering how far down that road we have gone.

This is ridiculous. And too many Democrats think that just ignoring this will make it go away. No, it won't.

Church and had three babies in four years. No wonder Rome recommends it.

because I was undergoing other medical treatment and was warned NOT to become pregnant.

I'm guessing that using the rhythm method works for some and not others. I still use the rhythm method (but, thank GOD, the Sponge is back on the market - now ovulation days are NOT off-limits! :bounce: I cannot take the pill, btw. My naturally-regulated cycle turns to shit and my liver hurts.)

to help her get pregnant and she ended up getting pregnant but with triplets I believe. I can't remember if they were triplets or sixtuplets. But either way she got really pregnant. She was very close to having the babies but the month or two before her due date she lost them. :(

women into line and insure more members for their churches. What the hell would they do if members dropped away? So they use a form of intimidation and fear to control, as most institutional religions do.Women, your job is to breed and do as you are told.I am so thankful that I was taught otherwise.

techniques are, and we're still using the same contraception that caused such an outbreak of Caesars.

thing for the church to OK. If sex is for making babies, are we trying to trick God with it? "Well God, I tried but no baby"

You are proof it doesn't always work, but it can be quite effective with regular cycles, doing the basal body temp and checking the discharge. Still that's OK with the church. Why?

Sure God can just decide to trick you back and pop an egg out. But couldn't he also break a condom, weaken a diaphragm, alter hormones?

The Church's teachings also say that if one partner wants sex the other has to put out, except in cases of illness. It doesn't phrase it that way and it isn't preached but a priest and I found that once when we were trying to find justification for some birth control teachings.

It is all way too stupid. It is a sin of the church itself to be against birth control considering the stress and economics and plain old reality in other countries as well as here.

I'm sure Rome sent you regular child support checks to help out since you tried to follow their teaching.

because theoretically no egg or sperm are "wasted" -- they are "saved" for later, and the Church also gets to inflict suffering on young horny married people, and Lord knows Holy Mother Church loves to inflict suffering.

No, the Pope sent no child support for my unplanned children -- and after three, I decided trying to pave my way to Heaven with a dozen children I couldn't take care of was untenable.

We left the Pope and turned to the Pill.

Must they not have sex with their spouses? Perhaps she covers that issue, but I don't want to read the article.

I guess we aren't supposed to be having sex.

Shhhh! Don't tell. :evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

Oh... wait... that's sex, too, isn't it?

:evilgrin:

Like I needed that vision in my head. :rofl:


Just kidding - you know I love you :loveya: - but still, I didn't need that vision.

engaging in sex not for procreation would be a BAD thing?

Surely you jest.

to continue procreation. Their problem is when MAN makes that decision.

partners is physically unable to have normal intercourse, I do know that much.

I suppose these people would tell married folks who simply don't want to have children that they should not ever have sex, even though married.

The ONLY purpose for sex is procreation according to these whackos. It's evil to have sex for pleasure........

Jesus allowed eunuches to marry.

My cousin and her husband are trying to get pregnant now and have been for the past little while and not having luck. So because of that should they never be intimate with each other? Humans need to feel touches.

don't enjoy it.

I'm still trying to figure out why God gave women a clitoris, considering her theory.

I also remember being taught that a woman can NEVER say NO to her husband if he wants sex, no matter what!

I've been out of school more years than I care to talk about, so I don't know if they're still teaching that stuff.

Ai yi yi........

That is seriously how these people think.

Tucker

I'd lay even odds she isn't practicing what she preaches......

If you're looking for hypocrites, just go to church, the bigger and pushier the better....

I do agree with that. And they're very noisy too. The older ladies at my church are always up in other people's business. Not all of them mind you just enough though. Oy. But yes those who are the loudest vocalist in that certain area I'm always curious about. Because most people just let people be.

I stopped going years back because I realized looking around at Sunday services that the majority of the people in the church were the ones who went around the other 6 days and 23 hours of every week being in everyone else's business and gossiping about people they didn't even know. They think an hour a week will ensure them of eternal salvation no matter what they do the rest of the time. I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy of it.

of miscarriage? And wouldn't that be a good thing?

I seem to remember reading something about this a year or so ago, but my quick google just comes up with http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/lowtech/lowtech10.html which seems to imply the opposite, though.

the human race would never have started. If they ain't enjoying it, they ain't doin' it right.

and about vomited.

Her picture was there - she is an attractive young woman. But I guess her looks might make up for the fact that her brain is missing.

The real target isn't just Roe v. Wade, it's Griswold v. Connecticut, which was the first ruling that people had a right to contraception.

Tucker

This is ridiculous.

At first, it was only about abortion. Then they started claiming emergency contraception, which can (theoretically) prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall (but which is mostly used to delay ovulation), is actually a form of abortion. Soon they will start making the claim that since other hormonal birth-control methods can also theoretically prevent implantation, those methods are *also* abortion.

Of course, headache pills and cold pills can also theoretically prevent implantation--but you notice nobody is going after those, because they aren't contraceptives...

Tucker

birth control that they CLAIM (despite medical facts to the contrary) actually cause abortion. Number one on their hit list is the birth control pill, the single safest and most effective form of BC to ever hit the planet. They want it GONE.

They also want the IUD GONE. For the same reason - that it actually is an abortifacient.

Am I the only person who DOESN'T think a f---ing blastula or gastrula or morula is a PERSON ON PAR WITH MYSELF?????? What has gone wrong? Who the hell owns my body - me, or the state, or some fundie church??????

It just isn't for sex and pregnancy. Sometimes if a woman is having trouble with getting her period her doctor will perscribe her some BC to help get her back on track.

BC pills are used to treat acne in some cases, for endometriosis, severe cramping and heavy periods. I guess in their warped thinking women should have to suffer needlessly, as long as their's a chance of a zygote in the mix.

Why don't they just have our uteruses removed at puberty and made the property of the state, since they take such an interest in them?!

:mad:

IUDs are tops on their hate-list because of the unimplanted-zygote thing.

IUDs prevent pregnancy by keeping any fertilized eggs from implanting in the uterine wall. According to the fanatics, this constitutes an abortion.

The anti-choice bunch really does not believe in contraception at all.

It is a fact that fertilized eggs by the hundreds of thousands get flushed away in menstruation every month, without women even being aware of it. No one knows why--it's just Mother Nature's way, and it's not a pregnancy. Don't know what the fanatics think about that.

They are fanatics, and fanatics are dangerous people because whatever they are obsessing on becomes the only important thing in the universe. Fanatics can move mountains and topple kingdoms. Fanatics can strap bombs around their middles and blow up strangers who never did them any harm.

Hekate

Griswold was the first decision to create a "right to privacy" -- an autonomous sphere free from government intervention into our private lives.

Lawerance, the decision which overturned sodomy laws, was heavily based on Griswold.

which contraception (and especially Plan B) brings about, takes the heavy hand of the state and inserts it, uh, into your genitals. This is NOT a conservative position, pardon the mental pictures this paints.

BTW, they're playing word games too. What is a fetus ? They claim it's a fertilized egg as "conception". Medical terminology, always kept the 120 days as contained in the Roe ruling, but the first trimester as 90 days is the common "limit" most people think of.

...as though there must be only one purpose, and as though this horribly repressed writer has found it.

This is what's the matter with Kansas--the twisted desire to have one's desires, and everyone else's, regulated by a Big Brother. And a God whose "creative power" can be "prevented" by a millimeter of latex is not one I would worship.

Go hide in a cave, Ms. Knight. Those of us who live in the real world, and enjoy doing so, do not need your sick fantasies.

I am sure there are plenty where you live too.

No reason to come down on Kansas for this. Most of us here are not this stupid.

It was starting in our church here a few years ago. Women are to remember their husbands are their masters.

Husbands are supposed to treat their wives with respect and care and they're supposed to be equal etc. At least that's how I was taught in the church when I was younger.

...as in the book title:



I live in Georgia, and so will not be putting on airs. ;-)

Kansas is really a pretty nice place to live.

I don't know if they still do...been out of school a LONG time. Sex is only for procreation, and God made it pleasurable to populate the World.

What are the odds? ;)

I posted her contact information elsewhere in the thread.

Catholic Church. There are two you know.

I didn't know that until I relocated to San Antonio in 1992. I checked the phone book for the closest Catholic Church, and saw this ad for a church that still had the latin mass. I grew up with that and thought it would be nice to go to their service.


YEEEOOWWW! Was I surprised! I didn't wear a hat or any head cover, and was stared at the whole time! (With what appeared to be disdane I might add!)

Then the priest stepped into the pulpit for the sermon. Seems ANYONE who strayed from the REAL Catholic Church and decided to adopt the "English Mass" was going to hell!

Freaked me out!

I never went back!

Instead I follow my mother's spiritual beliefs by attending ceremonies (some annual) overseen and conducted by my tribal elders in Oklahoma, Wyoming and Kansas. I did know someone (a classmate) who quit the Catholic Church and became a Baptist. She said she left primarily because confessions were no longer private (no confessional box available). She's a RWinger. When I was growing up I there were a number of Catholic families in the neighborhood but they were of the hip, liberal variety. For a long time I thought all Catholics were hip and liberal.

But, as to your question, differences in practices between churches within a particular faith doesn't surprise me.

Not all of course, but a lot. Some are waking up to how they have been hijacked.

with the words of one idiot. Actually I'm sure she's part of a little circle of idiots. Those of us here in Kansas with any lick of sense usually make fun of these people at public schools. Hadn't thought about this before but our teasing of these idiots in public schools might actually be the cause of the increasing number of religious-based schools that have cropped up. Now, if we could just get them to leave the state altogether....

BTW, in view of your response to this "article", do you find the views of Ann Coulter indicative of her birth state (New York) or the state she was reared in (Connecticut)? How about her Palm Beach neighborhood where she apparently lives (although she votes elsewhere)? Should we send out the alarm to those places too? Should we contact the hard working Dems in Florida, New York and Connecticut and tell them to give up too?

on edit: changed the word "city" to "state" in reference to New York.

I was not even thinking along those lines. I was thinking of how the Democrats are afraid to offend people and don't stand up for us.

Hey, I live in Florida, I can't make fun of anyone.

I am sorry you took it that way...I am referring to extremists overall. I had to leave my church here in Florida, it got so extreme.

There is a story in the Old Testament of Lot who goes his seperate way of Abraham and they're leaving Sodom and Gamohra because his family got a warning to leave the city before it was destroyed. His wife looked back and was turned to a pillar of salt. So one night they were sleeping in a cave and the daughters got him drunk and they each slept with him.

the same crap they hit Margaret Sanger with years ago when she fought for contraception-- nothing ever changes with these tightasses-- contraception was going to bring in a deluge of moral decay as we all rutted about without the fear of pregnancy.

Well, what if it has? People don't seem to screw any more or less than they ever did, they're just a little less pregnant and probably more healthy now after doing it.

When it's good, it's great
And when it's bad, it's still pretty good.
:D

You know he's one frustrated fellow.

I shudder to think what America would be like w/o birth control. I wonder if she understands the poverty level would increase and more husbands would be going to prostitutes rather than risk knocking up the wife again. That would mean more sexually transmitted diseases being spread around.

Do people such as these never think?

:evilgrin:

And he's wearing a condom because he doesn't want/can't afford any more kids.

What an idiot.

If sex wasn't fun, nothing would do it. No bird ever thinks, "I must put my sperm in a female bird's cloaca so she'll lay eggs." No, he just feels like rubbing his cloaca on his mate because it feels good and he feels excited to be with her, and he doesn't know why.

Tucker

Animals, unlike humans, can emote - they at best have LIMITED forms of intellect. Many have none at all; it's purely sensual (the use of senses and emotions).

However, I have noted species of bird and fish (for example the South American Cichlid you would know as "Angelfish") do pair for life - and same-sex couplings have been witnessed. Maybe God had a chat with them too? Or maybe they recognize the danger of disease? Or maybe they recognize the reality of emotion? Or something none of us has a clue on?

I think, if people bothered, monogamy is possible. I've yet to see any of my relatives in my family divorce. (one did breed outside of wedlock, but in a nation of only 300 million I'm not going to care just so long as the child is properly raised and educated to be of use as an adult. And too many kids born that way end up with HELLISH and UNPRODUCTIVE lives. So maybe what we are witnessing today isn't right. But at least somebody is trying to do SOMETHING about it. Pity it doesn't go with the offshoring and anti-America dealings of recent... )

...seeming first to decry our thinking sexual urges animalistic, then chiding her fellow citizens for not rising above them.

Poor lady. The dearth of pleasure in her own life is driving her to eradicate it in others'.

If God didn't want us to feel pleasureable while having sex then why did he create orgasms?

so that I can inform her, that women take the Pill for many different reasons OTHER than just birth control. And it SHOULD be something between the woman and her doctor. And NOT any of Ms Knight's business?????

I am so sick and tired of these people trying to dictate how we live. Get out of my life and NOW!

I would bet she is in the phone book. And she lives in my county. Just sayin . . . :eyes:

sometimes the paper has a way to contact the columists.


perhaps I can write a letter to the editor..... wonder if they would publish something from someone out of state?

Here's her contact listing on the church's website: http://www.princeofpeace.info/contact.html

I don't think you'll find an e-mail address for her though. I don't think that would be allowed for a number of reasons: possible problems with radiation adversely affecting her current fetus, she can't reach the keyboard to type since she's pregnant all the time, it would take time away from being out there indoctrinating others, grease from cooking is really harsh on the cooling fan in most CPUs and exposure to the internet might educate her.

Is the town slut. :evilgrin:

Did you really think she didn't have one? Kristin Knight, the author of the published piece, is also one of three contacts for the "Familia" ministry of at the Prince of Peace Catholic Church in Olathe, Kansas. Interestingly enough, the other contacts appeared to be a married couple. So, maybe Knight is revealing something very personal about her own marriage in her article :eyes: because I can tell you from experience that there are many of us in Kansas who find a lot of pleasure in sex. A lot. A whole helluva lot.


Here's her contact listing on the church's website: http://www.princeofpeace.info/contact.html

Here is the description of the ministry (from: http://www.princeofpeace.info/organizations.html )



You know, usually I like the stuff that you post. IMHO, posting stuff like this does little more than help the GOP in my home state. It reinforces the mantra to the same Democrats that I canvass during elections who ask me why they should vote. They point out the Kansas is a red state. Guess what? It will remain one longer the more GOP talking points like this - Attention to all Democrats who are not standing up for women's rights anymore. No, I am not talking to all of you, but I am sure as heck talking to those who are afraid to speak out for us - are propagated. Talk about a kick in the teeth to all of those of us working on the ground in Kansas and Missouri for the Democratic party. But, hey, maybe you're right. Maybe we aren't accomplishing anything and we should just give up. After all we can't talk to them but wait, what's this?

Take a look at something proud2Blib posted in the Kansas forum last week:



Dean's plan is working in Kansas, that's why there are RW-nuts like this coming out of the woodwork - just like a rat from a sinking ship, she's climbing on one of the few dry bastions left and screaming at the top of her lungs. In fact, it is because of, as you say, a "bunch of extremist religious groups. They will NOT compromise with you. They will get their way, you will get nothing," PLUS Dean's DNC plan for helping our state party recruit candidates, do ground work, and all the other things that the Democratic Party in Kansas is doing is causing the moderate GOP'ers to leave their party.

I guess this is my way of saying, I think your post is a little exaggerated. I saw this as someone who lives in Kansas. There are more reasonable people here than there are of Kristin Knight.


edited: removed a redunant phrase for clarity. At least I hope it is more clear.

be significant if they are "Mothers of Young Children".

Guess if they're anything else, they don't count. No role for "Wives" or "Mothers of older children".

otherwise they might already be thinking for themselves. :hide:

And we all know that EVERYONE in Olathe is a RW asshole like that idiot Kay O'Connor. :sarcasm:

Thanks for reposting my post. Good fit. :hi:

besides, one of my favorite ex-boyfriends was from Olathe. Hoochie-momma, he was hot and liberal. Then again, he wasn't living in Olathe when I knew him. :eyes: I guess he escaped. :rofl:

Trust me, you would NOT like living there.

I don't really have a reason to leave. :eyes:

it was the first mainstream multiplex in the KC area to show it

The Wingnutiest part of Johnson County.

No big deal if your mate is like Ann Coulter or O'Really, or any other Repiglican. How could one get any pleasure out of sex with a TOTAL GEEK?

>How could one get any pleasure out of sex with a TOTAL GEEK?<

I wouldn't call Ann Coulter a geek. I'd call her a waste of human skin. My husband is a software geek.

Geeks and nerds need love, too. Sometimes they are hotter (and much more creative,) than those who know all the "right" things to say and do to attract whomever it is they're trying to attract.

Just sayin'. :blush:
Julie

porkin' her/him like he/she hated her/him!

I'm talking circus side show type geek! dAnn is an Elephant Man Class Geek! I'll bet the bulge in her/his throat is bitten off chicken heads!

Look, this is the same state that periodically reminds us that there are people who believe that the earth was created on a sunny morning in October 4004 BC. And yes, our great land is full of little darlings like this, whose wombs are ovens of productivity and bake fresh buns at a prolific pace (you saw her author note about having 4 kids...) and who are happy to receive their husband's seed and take a spin at the roulette wheel of sperm motility. While this sort of saftig, faintly sloppy fecundity is splendid proof that Darwin's observations about the drive to species survival were correct, we also note that the best representatives of the species are not necessarily the ones that are constituting most of its representatives in each generation. Get used to it. The people who made change were rarely solid representatives of the little burger, and more frequently the obnoxious assholes who painted their houses green, told the neighbors to fuck off, and ran the local polluters, blowhards and fascists out of town. You think the Founders weren't pains in the ass ?

You are absolutely right that "liberal" self-satisfied complacency is the enabler for the sewage these people emit to reach the public ear. We have work to do. It starts with yourself (and you seem plenty active there) moves on to your immediate circle, and builds critical mass from a thousand individual points of light (hehehe). Keep up the attention, the rage and the work, la lutte continue, but sleep peacefully at night knowing you are in the right, and fuck freely and joyfully. The personal is political, which you clearly understand, and all else flows from there.

having a good time." -- HL Mencken

Have him tell the President first.

Sheesh, a country of only 300 million; which is zilch compared to just ab out every other country!

:rofl:

It's just not one issue with me about abortion but its a whole slew of things that the religious right does. Look theres only one way to deal with a bully, you've got to hit him hard in the nose. And if you do it once they'll stop. I say that we should have an annual DU camp out at Dobson's focus on the family headquarters and just keep protesting them until they get the message to stop pushing thier verison of christianity on us. I am not talking about the good christians on this page mind you, just the rw loons.

...but this kind of crap is not new. In fact it is far less than it ever was.

Stolen elections, however, are new, in the regard that the use of the machines will one day allow them to steal any vote they want. Then you will see this religious crap grow.

20 years as a tool-maker. If you design an apparatus, I will make it. The only specs are that it be one that allows these nuts to do penance at the same time they are being "Fruitful". Nothing disfiguring or that does permanent physical damage, just something that guarantees that only the most warped of them will find pleasure in the sex act. The rest will do it for the "Love of Jesus". AND its use should be mandatory in the state of Kansas.
The stories that I could tell of those conservative Kansas girls I met in the early sixties in Wichita.

:puke:

SO what's left, masturbating?

oops! That isn't allowed either, is it.

Or having sex with your own gender.

Have the fundies outlawed chocolate?

Maybe, he should have said "Go unfuck yourself".

Otherwise, they can go fuck themselves.

:evilgrin:

people. So I'm not getting any of you for not thinking this is important enough to go there.
Lots of people read DU.

:)

:7

:grr:

To my fellow Kansans: that's it, it's a wrap, it is over. Tell those Republicans who are quitting their party and are joining us in running the fundamentalists out of office - Brownback, Roberts, Kline, Ryun, Moran and Tiahrt - that we should just give up. The GOP has won because they aren't listening to us.

I wish you had not taken it that way. I even PMed you with an apology.

I am a Floridian and get made fun of all the time.

Since you've taken the liberty of disclosing that you sent a private message to me I will go ahead and post my private response to you. This is the heartfelt response that I was composing while, at the same time, you were compelled to post your announcement that you apologized to me rather than wait for a response. I don't get it. :shrug:

I did not mean to upset you at all. I did not think you saw my posts at all.

I'm a die-hard basketball fan and while the coach's show was on I was only looking at DU at commercial time. In fact, the only reason I'm up this late is because I was waiting for my basketball round-up. Which reminds me, I actually spent the first commercial break of the coach's show to write-in my calendar which conference games were being played when.

I'm not upset, just straight-forward. Can't help myself. I was raised with six brothers. My husband says I have a bit of a masculine personality from time to time that is particularly evident when my attention is being divided. Often times, I end up sounding brusk because I'll just cut to the chase. Just be thankful you don't have to live with me. (fwiw, my husband is reading through this thread on his computer across the room laughing his head off.)

Some think I was, I was not.

I was thinking more of religious extremists in general, and of our party's lack of courage on the issue.

So don't recommend. I guess some took it wrong.

I'm a Christian but I get so sick and tired of other Christian's telling me how to live my life. I may not be ready when I'm married to have a family yet whether because of a career or financial purposes etc. They have no right to tell me not to use a pill to stop pregnancy. And if God wants me to have a child so bad they're really belittling God in my opinion as a believer. We have to fight these people and fight them hard. What if a woman gets raped and there was no protection? She can still go and get the "morning after" pill and stop that pregnancy. If these people don't want abortion than give us our pills!

in the usual sense. The "As I See It" column is open to anyone who wants to write a personal opinion piece on any topic. It's sort of like an extended letter to the editor.

And it's not very hard to get published. They allow a wide variety of topics, and I think the main criteria are that it's reasonably well written (not sure how much editing they actually do) and is a topic that's topical and they think will be of interest to the readers.

I had no trouble getting my own "As I See It" piece published two years ago when I was running for office.

and in many cultures and religions (the themes concerning sex and pleasure as being something bad). Still, modern society has managed to change to a more healthy attitude about sex and it's natural connection to pleasure (it is naturally pleasure so that there most likely will be reproduction). At some point, I hope our society returns to a healthy acceptance of sexual pleasure instead of the radical religious version that it's all bad.

and show America what the radical Christian right really is, and really thinks...

I assume that this idiot realizes that in the "good old days" that many children did not survive to adulthood because of contagious diseases. If this idiot provides medical care to her children to prevent disease than she is interfering with God's creative processes. If she has heat, air-conditioning, and in-door plumbing, she is also interfering with God's creative processes. If she drives a car or used a computer to type this crap, she is interfering with God's creative processes.

I have a simply suggestion for the author of this editorial. If she really does not like modern life, she can move out into a shack with her kids and her husband and give up all the sinful conveniences.

Do any of these fundies have a life?

They are too busy minding everyone else's business to have a life of their own.

G spot for?

The creepy fundie look so many of them have.

What is that?

I see a lot of people with a love/hate relationship with the Old Testament, aka the Torah. They're all for the stonings of gays and adulterers and the crackdowns on disobedient kids, yet they ignore the parts that tell us to provide for the poor and needy, to welcome the stranger, and yes...

Do not ignore the barren woman.

What does this mean? It means that barren women should not be deprived of sex. This has two meanings within itself. Firstly it means not to withold sex during the parts of the cycle when a woman is unlikely to concieve. Secondly, it means that women who are past their childbearing years or who cannot concieve for medical reasons should also not be deprived of sex.

Why not? Because evidently procreation is not the only reason to have sex. Interesting how God understands us, eh?

--then why did She make it look like a taco? Have them fundies just answer me THAT, 'kay?

for the fact that she and she alone can have sex strictly for pleasure. All other creatures have a procreative function with their orgasm. Just a little known fact that I wanted to share.

do dolphins have a clitoris?

for procreation. Both will also use sex as "payoffs" for favors (both males and females). Bonobos also engage in same sex unions, which obviously have nothing to do with procreation.

http://www.blockbonobofoundation.org/

http://whale.wheelock.edu/archives/ask01/0097.html

the other higher creatures Bonobos and Dolphins. It makes for an interesting grouping, don't you think?

I know because I took an anatomy class a few years ago and we dissected cats and one of the parts we had to know was the clitoris!

Why would "god" give us an organ that gives us such pleasure if she didn't want us to use it - often!!!

that became unjust." . . . W.H. Auden

these days, people are having multiple children because having children brings them pleasure-but the world certainly doesn't "need" more human beings. In fact, our species very survival is being threatened by overpopulation; we had always sought to control our environment to sustain it, but now we must control our population to sustain our environment. Ad unpopular as the concept is, that's the reality that we're faced with. Redistribution of resources as a salve for our species problems can only be maintained as long as the resources themselves exist.

As for sex as pleasure; I do see sex as a means of communication and bonding between two people as a "moral" act, as long as there is some kind of meaningful relationship between those who are engaged in it (not necessarily marriage). We are increasingly isolated from one another. I'm even hearing that regular sex between married couples is becoming a rarity. American should indeed be making more Love and less War, but that's just my opinion. :-)

Afterall, if sex isn't about pleasure, then it's about pain.

She better hope her hubby doesn't go out of town on business trips.....

WE should match her up with that hunting-biker-"Rich GOP operative"-"poor-in-reality"-non-Equire-cover
fat dude.

I'm going to go home and masturbate in honor of this absurd piece of twaddle. :rofl:

Rice and beans, People.

Food is supposed to make you just strong enough to go to work six days a week and still have the energy to come to church on the seventh day to give us all your money.

Part of this movement back to "sex only for procreation" is to remind people that being gay is SINFUL and WRONG.

Long ago I decided that if God made people attracted to people of the same sex, then she/he must have intended for it to be ok. The fact that almost zero Christian churches understand this is one reason I became pagan.

Because if I understand this correctly, I should have NEVER gotten married the second time to that woman who had a hysterectomy, because we couldn't have any kids, and I should get rid of my current GF because she's been through "The Change".

Or just keep it in my pants, I guess.

A LOT of Xians are a sick bunch of Mo-Fos when it comes to other people's sex lives, Y'know?

But you should also take a young nubile into your bed. Some Old Testanment patriarchs had numerous wives & concubines.

The older women can be useful around the house.

"Honey, since you're no longer fertile, GAWD sez I'm to bring this young nibbley into our bed...That's OK with you, isn't it? after all, It's GAWD's command..."

Next sound you hear will be the .357 coming out of the nightstand drawer...
:7

lack of understanding of the bible concerning sex. If she had ever read the Song of Solomon and had any comprehension skills she would know that sex is celebrated as pleasurable and desirable for the bonding of a couple.....and even oral sex is in the Song of Solomon.

I wish these ignorant, puritanical people would actually READ the bible and if they don't understand it they would just shut the hell up.

The new push for children in the Christian community is for one reason....to outnumber the births in other religions in order to maintain a majority.

We were told by our priest (Eastern Orthodox Christian) to consider not using birth control, as it is a barrier, both metaphorical and real, between a husband and wife. It's not a hard and fast rule, though, as there are times that birth control is the right choice. Our church also says that abortion is sometimes a necessary evil, which sometimes gets the right-to-lifers in our church upset.

The problem lies in the theology behind what she's saying, I think. Western Christianity says that original sin is passed on at conception and that we are born sinful. How can anyone take pleasure in an act that could create a sinful being? It is a theological problem for them that has real ramifications in real life.

Eastern Christianity has a different definition of original sin, and we don't believe that we are born sinful. We believe that we are born good but into a world where it's easier to sin than not and where we usually take the easier path. Our theologians specifically chose that route on original sin because it means that we don't think unbaptized babies are going to hell and that we don't think sex is bad. We like sex, think it should be a pleasurable union (preferably between husband and wife, but that's Biblical--I know many who are very forgiving on that), and don't like it to have any negative connotations.

I'm not saying our Church is perfect by any means (way too much homophobia, I think, but I'm working on that), but I think we all need to deal with the real thinking underlying her premise. I would love to have a real conversation with that writer about her theology and why she believes what she does.

"You can have sex in your home, just no kissing, thrusting, moaning, or movement of any kind"

But so do I, and I think she's completely NUTS! Insane? Yes, insane. Religion does that to some people. I feel so sorry for her four children!

home-made gift cards to a local Christian bookstore, my card was of a kiss. I said to her - no way a Christian store wants to promote sex.

Keep it in the closet, that is what they do.

buzz off, the clowns. Chastity? Could help our population problem but it will never happen. Never. What they're really saying is sex is dirty.

is available on the web ? Ann and her sister even had Notre Dame University's president on board with that one, if I remember correctly.

is this chick promoting the rhythm method?

and lots of clear thinking pro choice Dems.

That's what's going on with Kansas.

For fun or otherwise.

Can others be so lucky because they don't get lucky? I doubt it.

Let them change what they want. This won't affect me much at all. </personalinterest>

Because it might lead to dancing.

NO FUCKING TEXT!!

even if you're using contraception?

What would this writer say to couples who are infertile or past the age of fertility? Because there is no chance of procreation, wouldn't pleasure then be the primary reason for having sex? Or should people just no longer have sex when having children isn't an option?

(or to create pain for someone else)

That's what their OP ED should be.


They want more soldiers to die in their wars....

"We may witness a similar transformation during this century. In Europe today, for example, how many children different people have, and under what circumstances, correlates strongly with their beliefs on a wide range of political and cultural attitudes. For instance, do you distrust the army? Then, according to polling data assembled by demographers Ronny Lesthaeghe and Johan Surkyn, you are less likely to be married and have kids—or ever to get married and have kids—than those who say they have no objection to the military. Or again, do you find soft drugs, homosexuality, and euthanasia acceptable? Do you seldom, if ever, attend church? For whatever reason, people answering affirmatively to such questions are far more likely to live alone, or in childless, cohabitating unions, than those who answer negatively."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x195218

There is spiritual value in enjoying being alive.

Those that don't want others to enjoy all the blessings of life are denying God, Goddess, god or the gods. Fuck 'em (or not) ;)

They want to control and punish sexuality.

Well, probably... I wouldn't know. :7

this is what a priest told the campus Newman Club, according to my Catholic friend (we graduated 1961)

years later (mid to late 70s), my husband came home still shaking his head over the rant some (religious right)in his dept gave during lunch.....an anti-abortion rant, but the one professor kept going on and on about how every sperm could be the start of a baby (he may not have actually said something this extreme--it was a university SCIENCE dept after all--but my husband was so shocked at what some had said he wasn't completely coherent).....

I think that even ascetics like San Juan de la Cruz and their hairshirts, who describe sin and lust ultimately as functional narcissism and urge mankind to die to themselves and kill their own desire for pleasure and give themselves entirely up to God are seeking pleasure of a kind, that of true and transcendant love. I'm sure that they learn to get great pleasure out of self-torment and self-destruction.

It's about putting minorities in their place.
Create a we-them menatality.
Reduce empathy.

All those baby boomers get to tell the youth what to do.
Lord over them.
Help them. (They think so.)
Same time, save heritage.

RepubliCON voter issue.

MINORITIES:
abortionists
gays
intellectuals
commies
sex-lovers

Nothing personal.
Not against sex really.
Just a way to lock voters into a base.

or mandatory chastity belts.

These people are weird

making me horny!!

a small organ that is capable ONLY of giving me pleasure (well, sometimes pain, but only the good kind ;) ). It has no other purpose! I think God would be mad at me if I neglected it - I mean, why sould she have given it to me if not to use it? }(

Live your entire life in abject misery...:sarcasm:

No possibility of procreation? - Don't even THINK about sex!