My fundie former friend who had abortion and today is anti-choice.

When she was 12, she was impregnated by her EIGHTEEN year old boyfriend. (A little background: her parents were negligent, her father was an alcoholic, and at this time in her life they were going through a divorce and were completely self-absorbed. She dated the 18-yr-old with their consent. Did I mention, SHE WAS 12 when she became pregnant.)

So she found her self pregnant, and her mother took her to a clinic in Mississippi (where she still resides) to have an abortion. She was able to continue her schooling, and eventually graduated from high-school and married twice, in the second marriage having kids, all though the marriage continues to be in dire straits. (Husband has a cocaine addiction, but that's another story.)

Today, she is one of the most vocal anti-choice people I know. She is a total Bush supporter, even though she's completely politically illiterate. She doesn't know WHY she's a Republican, she just is. She meets people and judges them by whether they are a "good Christian" or not. She's a gossip monger: anytime a group of friends were gathered, she would commandeer any discussion to talk about people in our town--and to pass judgment on them. (In one of these conversations, she pronounced a doctor in our town to be "A Good Christian." One of the women in the group was that doctor's former nurse, and brought up the many affairs he had had, one of which led to a suicide by a young girl barely out of her teens. But this doctor attended church, you see, so he's "A Good Christian." Again, another topic.)

She and I ceased our friendship when, in private conversation so as not to embarrass her, I brought up her hypocrisy in relation to abortion. I asked her why she would deny other girls and women the ability to make the choice that gave her a second chance at her own adolescence, and to choose when the time was right for her to have children. She was speechless. She had NO answer. And then she became extremely hostile toward me, not only insulting me for having no morals, but also insulting my child, because "he's going to be a nasty liberal just like you."

Moral to the story: it's terrible that many of the women on the front lines of the abortion debate would refuse to other women and girls in the next generation the right to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. Whether or not they utilized their rights to choose, the right was available to them. And even in this group of anti-choicers are people who HAVE terminated their own pregnancies, yet they see no hypocrisy in advocating removal of choice from other women.

then maybe it should be illegal



just kidding


she sounds like a very narcissistic person who had developed a reaction formation to cope with her guilt about her abortion

Can you say that in laymen's terms? :D

And, yes, she is VERY narcissistic.

Namely her self, but those who yell the loudest as well.

defense mechanism

In a way, anyway, in that you take on the worldview of the dominant person.

I see what you are saying.

I've known my share.

Once they get what they want/need, its 'screw everyone else'.

Oh, and they do tend to be extremely vocal and vote like rabbits reproduce

And then multiply that times ten.

People who are out of control or who are involved with others who are out of control usually try to control what they can, even if those issues have nothing to do with their current unhappiness.

Easier for her to yell and scream about abortion than to face her childhood pain and the fact that she is married to a cocaine addict.

that says it all - this isn't a patriotic American. . this is an insecure, irresponsible, half-citizen who has to memorize all her talking points. Hypocrisy to the max.

Sounds like a person of very low self-esteem needing the "fix" of gossip to point out other's short comings in order to 'feel better' about herself. Sad.

Perfect description.

A little epilogue to the story above. She's now getting her elementary education degree so that she can "bring children to Christ" in her classroom. She will use her classroom as a soapbox, and that's scary.

upon students? Does she understand the inappropriateness of pushing her religion on children? If she wants to influence kids' religion she ought to teach Sunday school; If she wants to indoctrinate young children through *public* schools - than good luck to her - because as the political shift is moving through the country, the context of the local school begins to change as well - and she will be at risk of not having a job due to violating the Constitution (per seperation of state and church).

She sees her proselytizing in the classroom as a form of rebellion against the persecution of Christians.

She does teach Sunday School. That's not enough for her, though, because she believes that the true need is to reach out to all of the unchurched children in the urban school district WHERE SHE ALREADY IS A TEACHING ASSISTANT. She's even used the term "in the trenches" in discussions about her battle against the ungodly in the public school system.

go through historical examples: The Inquisition, Pogroms, the Haulocost. Examples of when folks finances, and later existence being in peril due to their religious beliefs *that* is religious persecution. Even when folks give their trumped up, urban myth forms of examples of "Christian Persecution" - none of them rise up to historic examples of persecution. Self-righteousness, however, is often quite apparent.

is not being able to force their beliefs on others without question.

There is no pleasing fanatics and zealots of any kind.

However, I have been countering this argument with the assault on choice.
Pointing out to these holier-than-thou's that NOW the pendulum swings in their favor and they are perfectly okay to take away someone else's choice to NOT have a child, what is going to happen when the pendulum swings in their direction and their choice to HAVE a child is taken away?
Choice means more than one option.
When you allow someone to take away your choice, you allow them to do simply that.
Is that REALLY the fight we want to fight?

it is true that women can be the most viscious to other women.. especially once they find religion or some other self-righteousness. They feel through their own guilt that they made a mistake, but they shove it under the rug, instead taking up the banner of inducing other young women who find themselves in that situation, to feel like bags of shit and to adhere to their dogma. I am so sick of hypocrites.

I know people like that.

Leave ME alone.

Just a wild guess. :shrug:

an abortion they have selective amnesia concerning their younger selves

Holier than thou doesn't begin to decsribe them now

Hypocrites

find solace in painting by numbers. How sad that she is putting herself in a community of judgemental people who would cause her to feel bad about something she did at age twelve.

For many, the need to have its approval is more important than the need to remain mentally stable, healthy, normal, or ethical. It lures many back to its destructive embrace years after one would think they could have become permanently free.

Gays outing famous people pretending to be straight? I wonder is a some point we're going to need to start outing people like your friend. I know that sounds kind of mean, but she sounds pretty awful, and not just because of her hypocrisy--she is doing real damage to others.

I'm an anonymous person on DU, posting about a person I won't name, and that no one on DU has ever encountered, beside me.

I couldn't do that to any other woman. I believe that women deserve the right to confidentiality. I'm not a big fan of outing gays, either.

you ever have the chance you could ask her why she approves of back alley abortions. She will protest. Tell her she does if she takes away safe legal abortions because that is where the abortions will happen.

Pro- back alley abortionists. They are anything but pro-life, or even anti-choice.:grr:

Misogynistic women, how sad.

Point out to her that if she, at the age of twelve, had ONLY had the option of an illegal, back-alley abortion, that she may not have survived. And her children wouldn't be here.

EVEN if she had given birth to the child and given it up for adoption, it would have changed her life. Have you asked her what her life might have been like if she had married that eighteen year old MAN who should have been charged with statutory rape?

Edited for typo.

When she told me about her abortion, she also confided in me by telling me that the guy had recently called her, and that she still has feelings for him!

His call to her is what precipitated her "confession" to me.

:silly: :freak: :banghead:

Yes, when we discussed it later, when I brought up her hypocrisy, I did tell her how fortunate she was to have had the right to safely terminated that pregnancy. Didn't sink in, though.

about abortion, especially in mixed company. The truth hurts, but eventually it will either sink in, marginalize her message or shut her up. Either way, these people need to be called on their actions in a way that makes a lasting impact and changes their behavior.

She was angry and demoralized because she knows you are right. And that's what she should feel every time the issue comes up. Hard I know, but the GOP are the ones who set the tenor here. We can be gracious once they start to behave themselves again. Until that time, they need every spanking they get.

Choice is built on privacy. Her or anyone's medical history is noones business but her own. Of course, if she starts in on abortion, a "hypothetical" talking about a 18-yo impregnating a 12-yo, and what would SHE do would be too hard for me to resist if I was in the OP's shoes.

Wouldn't it be sweet though to watch her head explode!

I'm sorry if it seemed that way, for that was not my intent. :hug:

If a man really wants to have a baby than it's okay for man to rape woman. Honest to god he said that and I still get sick over it. The strange thing is Kevin - that's his name - has a wife and kid go figure this pro family crowd. My gawd these nuts are living right down the street from me. Thank god I got a 173lb mastiff for protection.

I guess he would be ok with his daughter being impregnated by a rapist, because it's ok to rape, right? These people are a bunch of animals.

Sweetest kid in the world, I hope his old man doesn't teach this crap to him.

He will probably be a liberal somewhere to the left of Noam Chomsky. Wingnuts tend to have kids like that.

Because they really want to have babies! :sarcasm:

:toast:

:D :toast:

abortion and went on to graduate and to attend medical school. That choice allowed her to become a dentist. Shis is now a religious right nutcase who would outright ban abortion.

Still, she is the exception. Other right wingers I've known or known of who have had abortions have been moved to moderate their position on abortion.

after forcing his first wife to abort a pregnancy.

A few years later, in the late 80's, he was all pro-birth. I was supposed to conveniently "forget" his ex-wife's abortion when he started spewing his anti-choice crap at social gatherings.

It made me sick, really. Repukes are no more than parasites who feed off the system but want to deny anyone else the same help.

you will find many, not a few, but many similar stories and the attendent hypocrisy.

is the main reason for all the future problems in her life due to guilt and fellings of low self worth. And that if she had the baby she would be 'happy' now.