I know this article has been mentioned already, but I did want to emphasize this part:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-clooney/i-am-a-liberal-there-i-_b_17119.html

The fear of been criticized can be paralyzing. Just look at the way so many Democrats caved in the run up to the war. In 2003, a lot of us were saying, where is the link between Saddam and bin Laden? What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? We knew it was bullshit. Which is why it drives me crazy to hear all these Democrats saying, "We were misled." It makes me want to shout, "Fuck you, you weren't misled. You were afraid of being called unpatriotic."


And in addition to Mr. Clooney's words, I'd like to add that we have yet to hear Sens. Clinton, Kerry, or any other pro-war "democrats" stand up and take responsibility for their cowardice. They continue to cop out with excuses like "Bush tricked us!" or "The IWR stipulated that Bush come back to the Congress again before invading!", etc.


I personally don't believe that this party can ever fully recover or claim the high ground as long as its pro-war members don't own up to their complicity in the Iraq fraud and pledge to turn over a new leaf.





But I know it's never going to happen...

And I thank him for his comments, but it is up the constiuents like ourselves to stand up to the DINOs and demand responsibility...

Most of us don't. I say let him speak and hear him speak.

food for thought....

Was a B Rated "Actor" and his best moview was Bedtime for Bonzo......Do we even want to go there? ;)

He plays the baddest guy in a film where everybody is a bad guy and he dies great. :-)

It was 8 years of his pResidency.....

Good part of why I enjoyed that movie so much was watching him die at the hands of Lee Marvin who may have been a bit of an SOB but served his country a hell of a lot better than Reagan or any of the assclowns he surrounded himself with.

Clooney has all of Reagan's charisma, better looks, and isn't even in the same league in terms of intelligence.

I'd love to see a governor, then a President Clooney, but it seems like all of the really good ones aren't interested in pursuing public office.

How about "Good Night and Good Luck" and "Syriana" for starters? Some actors and artists use their talent to reach millions of people in ways most of us cannot. I applaud Clooney for using those talents to make important statements on a global scale.

We are very greatful for his work and comments...

he is a constiuent too :shrug:

Ofcourse he is, and I have no issues with that..... ;)

:shrug:

bring your suit

downturns in Las Vegas. Mr. Clooney et al have decided to not go ahead with their project, along with many, many other luxury builders and developers there.

There was a massive 10 year plan for vegas that just dried up, like the desert it's in the midst of.

The official website of their investment group
http://www.lasramblasvegas.com/news/

Larry King interview w/ Clooney
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/16/lkl.01.html

And Rosa Parks was just getting on a bus.

if I said what I'm thinking about a few of them regarding the Iraq war resolution, that's probably a good idea! ;) It wouldn't be pleasant.

Abso-fucking-lutely George, I'M A LIBERAL TOO AND DAMN PROUD OF IT....

I have a hard time with "we were misled" too -- come on, WE all knew it was BS, why didn't THEY? Hillary lost me on this one....

That's why I say we clean house as should the repukes...

Kerry did not support the war.

I supported him with deep reservations on the hope that his election might save some innocent lives from the meat grinder of Iraq - no other reason. I never expected meaningful change from Kerry, but Bush was so bad that I went out and voted for him - even campaigned for him.

I never stopped being a Kucinich supporter, though.

I campaigned for him, I gave him money, I helped organized his rallies locally, I met him, spoke with him...but all along it was an ABB vote.Still there are plenty here who will attack me and call me a "Kerry basher" because I was disappointed in the candidate that I worked my ass off for and sacrificed a huge amount of my yearly salary for. SCREW them. We're allowed to feel damned disappointed. I don't know about you, but I didn't get to vote in any primaries-they were meaningless when they came to my state. I was a strong Kerry supporter when I had no other choice, but I'm praying for a candidate that I can truly believe in next time around.

statements and rely on soundbites.

Clooney's a lot less temperate than I was last night on the thread I started. And you're a lot more moderate in your criticism of Clooney than your criticism of what I wrote. Too funny.

One thing I would never doubt is the earnestness and sincerity of your positions even when I make that rare disagreement. ;)

I'm keenly aware that we share far more than that which separates us.

...that you choose the exact moment that Senator Feingold is smacking down your President to post this?

LOL

NGU.

It's illustrative of the difference between a democrat (Feingold) - and whatever it is the pro-war dems really are.


...and please refrain from calling him "my" president.

*I* did not vote to support his illegal slaughter of Iraqis and American troops.

:eyes:

LMAO

NGU.

...since Feingold isn't one of the cowards who voted for the IWR.

...to a dem congress critter who actually said "The IWR stipulated that Bush come back to the Congress again before invading?" I don't mean that as a challenge, more as a matter of curiosity. Even just a name. I've seen that statement by DUers, but not actually by anyone in congress.

This appeal is general, BTW-- if ANYONE can provide that link it would be much appreciated.

The reason I'm so interested is that it would be a blatant lie for anyone in congress to make such a statement. The IWR is short and easy to read-- I'd urge anyone who hasn't read it to do so-- http://www.yourcongress.com/ViewArticle.asp?article_id=2686 -- and it actually calls on Bush to do very little (contrary to what some have suggested, it doesn't even call for any future diplmacy after October 10, 2002). It simply gives him a blank check for a war of aggression under the War Powers Resolution of 1973, essentially substituting for a declaration of war, and requires only that he send congress a letter announcing the invasion within 48 hrs (Sec. 4 has a further reporting clause, but 4(b) undermines it). For anyone in CONGRESS to suggest otherwise is somewhat shocking if they actually read the IWR.

And skimming through that, it does look an awful lot like a blank check...

...it's an utter get-out-of-jail-free card. I wonder how many people have actually read it, and especially from the perspective of a legislative document in which language is everything? Unless it says "the president shall" he isn't compelled to do anything for congress-- not even respect them in the morning....

I destest moral cowardice no matter what the 'pragmatic' rationale. We marched in October 2002 - many tens of thousands of us took to the streets - and it was absolutely no mystery to us. Misled? BULLSHIT!

This wasn't merely 'pro-war' ... it was pro-rape, pro-plunder, pro-imperialism, and anti-international-law.

Won't he get stoned for telling the truth?

They SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that their cowardice would
come back and bite them in the ass. They DID know.
We ALL knew.

Even as one who voted for Kerry, I said then and I say now: He blew the election when he voted 'Yea.'

The perverted and illicit 'logic' of "we were assured he'd exhaust UN options" just doesn't hack it. Not at all. That means they had time before they needed a resolution at all! There was no 'imminent' threat or reason for haste ... or any reason to act legislatively at the time they did. Without that reason, only a 'No' vote suffices. The sole rationale for having the IWR vote prematurely was to have the specious fig leaf. Pure deceit.

The IWR would not have allowed for inspections to occur. Nowhere in the IWR did it say that Chimpy could attack Iraq unilaterally, illegally...

To say Kerry is "pro-war" proves that he is a political amateur. Did Clooney not want inspections to happen? Does he even know that the IWR stipulated that? Does he care?

And know that many Democrats have said their vote was wrong and have done nothing but hold Bush accountable for the disaster in Iraq from the beginning. And F-U to any idiot who doesn't understand that they are complicit in letting Bush get away with his lies every single time they repeat the BUSH FRAME, "voted for the war".

Amen. :applause:

sounds like the dems got a huge perception problem, they need to be more like dean, imho, no one thinks he rolls over for the neoCONs.

peace

People on DU are no more immune to repeating hype and lies than anybody else in this country, including Howard Dean. He started this assinine "voted for the war" shit, when he should have been focusing on Bush not living up to the diplomatic requirements of the IWR.

i say the dems have a perception problem & you say 'BS'

i think your response is indicative of the communication problem of many of our leaders today.

won't listen to weTHEpeople and blame everyone but themselves...

reminds me of a 6yo.

thanks for helping to illustrate my point.

:toast:

peace

You're not. And the left has distorted the Iraq war and the WMD intelligence almost as much as the right. For instance, the fact that no official, including Scott Ritter, ever said they knew to a certainty that there was no WMD in Iraq. Or that Bush himself said it wasn't a vote for war. Or that Saddam retracted his inspections proposal. Or that the UN voted FOR an Iraq resolution AFTER the US resolution. A whole host of things that the far left regularly distorts for its own political agenda. It's nothing new. It's not a matter of perception or communication, it's just a fact. Most people know it, that's why the far left is not and never will be a political force.

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com

you need serious help on your so called 'facts' but just look at the facts on the ground for a moment.

psst... pass the word :hi:

peace

Even when you dare to roam into the ranks of the far left and call them out on their own brand of "truthiness". I see it on DU on a daily basis, there's a regular disconnect with the facts around here. I don't have them wrong.

the UN has called this war ILLEGAL, hello...

the rest of your spin was just that, spin... guess what though, we got a paper trail on DU, this ain't FAUX NEWS where you can get away with your spin.

after 5 years on this board i have learned that whenever someone calls you a 'far leftist' you won.

fyi

peace

As the IWR was being written, Iraq was still attempting to negotiate the terms of the inspections. They would say full inspections one day, then turn around the next and demand restrictions or concessions. That is just the fact of what happened, a fact the far left, yes the far left, never talks about.

"Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz said his nation would allow inspectors to return only if the United States doesn't bring military action and if U.N. sanctions are lifted."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/15/powell.aziz.iraq/index.html

This happens ALL the time, the far left has even gone after Kucinich at times. The far left is great at ripping everybody up, but has no solutions, therefore they don't have to answer to any consequences. Like a bunch of 6 year olds.

hello...

peace

This is about the IWR and the inspections. Saddam did not let the inspectors in before the IWR and I just showed you that he never even agreed to. But that's typical far left "truthiness"; when caught "misleading", change the subject.

and we all knew they manipulated intel to get their war on and our 'leaders' just went along for the ride either because they were SCARED, CLUELESS or in on it.

but i know, i know, that is all old news, time to move on, eh and besides they would have fought the illegal war better :eyes:

peace

How does your mind work that you can just ignore what is right in front of your face??? This is about the IWR, not the war.

is that clear enough fer ya?

this isn't JUST about that single cowardly vote, it is about the YEARS of spinelessness to the bush crime family before but especially since that vote.

most of them acted COWARDLY that day and continue to do so to this very day and if they can't stand the heat they can get the fuck out of the kitchen.

you want to say it is all in our heads, fine, just remember, perception is EVERYTHING.

i hope the leaders wake the fuck up.

Band of Brothers (video)
http://www.bandofbrothers2006.org/2006/03/video_wmv.php

peace

You make up your mind and fit the facts to around that conclusion, and then it's a big "go fuck yourself" when somebody points out the errors. Just like I said.

they have rolled over for the WORST criminal admin in our nations history for 5 years and counting now... and we got a paper trail to prove it. (thank gore he 'invented' the INTERNETs)

if your argument made any sense what so ever they would have been up in arms as soon as the neoCON thugs invaded yet that never happened... the best we get, to this very day, is they would have fought the illegal war better :puke:

i say bullshit, the U.N. has declared this an ILLEGAL WAR name 1 senator who has owned up to this fact.

peace

This is about the IWR. You absolutely refuse to stick to the facts of it and throw a temper tantrum instead.

You want to switch to the UN, they didn't declare it an illegal war. Kofi Annan said he thought the war was illegal, the UN didn't declare anything.

Why can't you make your case with the truth? Every time the far left lies, the rest of the party has to deal with those lies AND the lies from the right in order to try to get the facts to the people. Perhaps if the left didn't lie so damned much, the rest of the Democratic Party would have been able to convince the people of the truth of the war and prevented it.

they couldn't do it YEARS AGO & they STILL can't.

wtf is the matter with them :shrug:

peace

And the FACTS leading up to it.

and counting.

fyi

peace

Frankly any fool that is still in U.S military at this point in time deserves everything rim job they get. The red herring of who in hell voted for anything anymore is mute. Most of us here are pretty sure the last two if not three national elections were stolen. What are you, they, us (or however you want phrase it) going to do about it?

The country we knew and loved is gone. The glimmer of some dream about it might live on but thing to understand is we will never be able to go back to where we were before knowing what we know now.

That's what the thread is about, specifically. You want to talk about stolen elections, go start another thread.

Mr. Cloony is a couple light years behind but it's nice to see one or two picking up on the clues mashing the cliches aside

Getting mired in some philosophical debate about what ifs from years ago serves about zero purposes. Mostly watching the track record from what did they do for us then as compared to what was done in the present it's quite plain that the leopard has kept his spots. Nothing has changed in that aspect and will not change until enough people are willing to stand up and say enough is enough.

Btw I don't need another thread to debate stolen elections here either, there is a whole other forum for that. The main point I was making is that the thread was about saying FUCK YOU and the vote for iwr was just a jumping in point, but I would be willing to debate that if you like

And for the last several years. Unless you're willing to acknowledge that every fact in post #44 is true, then there probably isn't much to debate.

* has not lived up to any agreement in his entire miserable life, Howard Dean is only a party operative and holds no elected office to hold anyone accountable but thing is, that mostly, most of all, is that most of the so called elected people at the federal level are just corporate toadies able to hold that position because the world corporate has found them innocuous enough to let em stay. I would rather understand than to disagree, so thanks for helping me understand.

You said: "...many Democrats have said their vote was wrong (re: Iraq War)..."

Must have missed many of the many.

Can you please provide a list of the ones you are talking about, and links to support that assertion?

I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks.

:shrug:

Every time one of them has said their vote was wrong, it's been posted; Feinstein, Kerry, Edwards... what good would it do to post it all again???

is it 5, 10, bigger then a breadbox, mightier than a steam locomotive???

Somebody here, or on some other blog, must have a tally going.

Sorry for poking fun, but you said, 'many' and that is definitely news to me.

Any help in this direction is appreciated.

:hi:

I have no idea, I can't remember them all.

But you do make my point that DU isn't interested in the facts of it any way, despite the claims that they want apologies, otherwise it would be readily known and acknowledged. It isn't, as you've just shown. DU doesn't care about facts, just childish ranting.

So that when somebody, say you for instance, says that many Dems have admitted that their vote for the Iraq War was wrong, you could link to the Talking Points Forum where we could all benefit from the proof provided by the wealth of researching Dems and Progressives here on this board.

Now THERE is an idea, huh?

:shrug:

Cause I ain't here 24\7, and would love to be able to have YOUR facts at MY fingertips, no?

:hi:

Because that's what it would take for you not to know what's going on. Sorry, I dont buy it. I don't even understand the necessity of playing the twisted little game, but whatever floats your boat.

It's a start. I'll try to find the rest when I get a chance.

Thanks ever so much for your help.

LOL

:wtf:

Dodd, Rockefeller, Harkin...

Am I really the only one on DU who cares about the truth??

Edwards and Murtha are the only Democrats that I can recall that voted for the IWR, but later publicly, and without reservation, stated that they were wrong.

Which shows how "plugged in" DU is.

All mouthin' off.

He needs a nice swat on the ass.

I'll do it!

Get in line! :headbang:

The "Duh, I wuz fooled", is pathetic.

as they change the term to "Bush LIED to us" and repeat it at least 12 times before the election (Penance)

Can't think of a single mistake they've EVER made!

Clooney not needing to be elected has a lot more freedom to say what he really thinks the many in congress. I think "we were mislead" is about the best you are going to get. Given that many in Washington that stood up against the war lost in 2004, isn't it clear that until the American people wake up there is little Democrats can do.

i have been here pay'n attention since 2001 and i agree with him.

time to turn up the heat since the polls tell us the people are awake & thet are on our side on ALL the big issues.

peace

clearly the state the country is in is all due to phony political posturing by the Democrats. It has nothing to due with the majority party. Once again Clooney fails to address the simple fact that the Democrats that voiced the loudest opposition to the war got burned. They got burned in 2002 and again in 2004. Currently the Democrats are sitting back and letting Bush hang himself. There is simply nothing politically to gain from trying a strategy that burned you twice before. Particularly when you can make a lame excuse and let all the press focus on the presidents continued disconnection from reality. To put it another way if I was a Democrat that did vote for the resolution am I worried about running against a anti-war republican? Answer... not really.

i'm with clooney and the majority of america, we need radical change, ASAP.

to all the status quo dems i just got 1 thing to say...

FUCK YOU!

peace

It was go-along, get-along, Bush-loving dems like Daschle and Max Cleland that lost their seats. The vocal war opponents kept their seats. Hell, even Cynthia McKinney deservedly got her seat back.

So how is it that democrats who opposed the war got burned?

I'm Howard Dean. The canidate the doesn't like the war. Vote for me plz...

Kerry ran against the worst president in modern history and lost by 3 million votes. Are you saying that he would have gotten even FEWER votes had he voted against the war?

Nah, it was much better to vote against an obviously fraudulent war, especially with his vocally anti-war past. God forbid he ever come across as CONSISTENT.

Such is the way of things: principled individuals like Paul Wellstone are taken away, whilst politicos such as Madame Clinton and Joe Lieberman, both of whom never had a principle they wouldn't sell to Big Business, are expected to live into their nineties.

I just hope someone told Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers to stay away from small aircraft.

HE SPEAKS FOR ME !!!!!!! HE SPEAKS FOR ALL DECENT AMERICANS !!!!! *SWOON*

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq were:

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota) Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Re
Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
John Hostettler (R-Indiana)
Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office)
Jay Inslee (D-Washington)

How to proceed in creating a better system?

nor the Patriot Act.... Need I say more?

was politically motivated and several democrats, I think, voted for the authorization because of it or because they were planning to run for president in '04 (Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, ect) and didn't want to run as being soft on security/defense.