The Beginning of the End of the Petrodollar

george_hurley

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:33 PM
Original message

The Beginning of the End of the Petrodollar

The Beginning of the End of the Petrodollar: What Connects Iraq to Iran

Finally, after 3 years the discussion leads to the REAL reasons we're dropping bombs and torturing people:

http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=530827

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george_hurley

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message

1. ***PETITION TO SIGN: NO WAR WITH IRAN ***

Hello,

For the past year, the growing tensions mounting between the US, Israel, and Iran are reaching a point where military action against Iran is w/in months of becoming reality. The repercussions are terrifying as such military action could involve countries such as China and Russia as they share massive energy/economic interests w/ Iran. The most likely scenario we would face would be the collapse of the US economy as the combination of a massive rise in oil prices and a run on the US dollar would surely be the weapon many countries would use to fight back against a preemptive US or Israeli strike.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn/

Also, here is another petition you can sign from another group:
http://stopwaroniran.org/statement.shtml

Thanks for your time

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acmavm

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message

2. Ummm, we have been talking about this issue since the beginning of

the war. No surprises here.

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havocmom

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. Ummm, DU is attracting a lot of new people here to learn.

Repeating info so they can catch up is a GOOD thing.

Snarky is not a good way to win friends and influence the people we need to reach between now and Novemeber if we want to take the Hill.

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acmavm

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #4

6. Look, first don't call me snarky. Second, it is well worthwhile pointing

out to people that these issues have been out there for a long time now. This is NOT NEWS. The fact that Saddam Hussein was going to demand for payment for oil in Euros was a major, if not THE major reason for Shock and Awe. And now it is being used against Iran. And the fact that we have been talking about it for three plus years means that the information has been out there for everyone to see. And what is most important about this information is not that it is just coming to light but THAT IT WILL NOT WORK AGAIN.

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havocmom

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #6

8. I didn't call YOU snarky & LOOK, you don't get to twist my words

Snarky was referencing the tone of your reply
And IT IS NEWS to a lot of people. Jumping on someone for reiterating what may be old news to news junkies like many of us here is NOT a good way to help cultivate more people who might just be joining the fight.

Do we want to win elections and stop the junta or do we want to intimidate new allies by being rude?

I choose the former and try to remind myself and others that we would do well to be patient teachers.

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acmavm

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8

13. I didn't twist your words. And since when do you decide what anyone

here is allowed to post?

Not only that, everyone should be informed of what the regime has been doing, why they have been doing it, and for how long. Seriously, worry about yourself and I'll take care of myself. That should give us both plenty to do.

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havocmom

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #13

15. LOL wasn't your post the one coming down on the OP?

Yeah, thought so

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acmavm

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #15

16. No one 'came down' on anyone. Just pointed out that this was old news.

The only problem was the one that you created. Let it go.

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havocmom

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Sat Mar-18-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16

18. So says the judge & jury of one

A-mazing. Just amazing.

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ClintonTyree

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2

11. To the average American, this IS a surprise.

Most of us at DU who have an higher than average need to know about subjects such as there are the exception, not the rule. The average American has no idea about the politics and economics of oil and this article is a wealth of facts in that area. To cavalierly dismiss this as old news is dangerous. More people need to be exposed to this for that is the only way change will be brought about.
I'm not ragging on you, I just disagree with your assumption that everyone knows about this. :)

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slaveplanet

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:45 PM
Response to Original message

3. I heard the Bourse

was stalled for 6 months minumum.

then again I heard the same thing about the bombing of Iran...

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serryjw

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. .....I don't think so........

quote..........
Nine indicators prove that the crisis is unfolding:
Nine indicators developed in this month’s GlobalEurope Anticipation Bulletin N°3, which I coordinated, out of which 5 are presented in this public communication, enable LEAP/E2020 to confirm the beginning of a global systemic crisis by the end of March 2006. The recent international trends that particularly affect the international financial system, and the preoccupying trends in the US, namely as concerns the reliability of statistics on the US economy<1>, have brought our research team to conclude that this global systemic crisis is already unfolding.
end quote........
http://www.newropeans-magazine.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3612&Itemid=85

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muriel_volestrangler

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #7

14. quote from an Iranian official - delayed until mid year

Despite repeated reports over the past 18 months or so that the planned bourse would finally open for business on March 20, 2006 -- and go head to head with the New York Mercantile Exchange and the ICE Futures Exchange in London -- the start date has been postponed by at least several months and maybe more than a year.

"In the middle of 2006, we are able to start the bourse," Mohammad Asemipur, special adviser on the project to Iran's Oil Minister, said when reached in Tehran. The plan is to trade petrochemical products first, with a crude oil contract coming last, a rollout that likely will take three years, he said.

"Oh, crikey, it's at a much earlier stage than people would think," said British consultant Chris Cook, who claims credit for coming up with the idea for the exchange in the first place and is a member of the consortium headed by the Tehran Stock Exchange that is charged with bringing the project to life.

"You can rest assured, there will not be a crude oil contract, Gulf-based, in my opinion, within a year -- and that would be really pushing it," Mr. Cook, a former director of ICE's predecessor, the International Petroleum Exchange, said when reached in Scotland.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060314.RIRAN14/TPStory/Business

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serryjw

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14

17. Only time will tell

I have no reason to believe them any more than I believe *

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muriel_volestrangler

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Sat Mar-18-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17

19. It's not much of an exchange if you tell people it won't be open

If you want to do business, your customers have to know you're there, and ready to serve them. I think that if the Iranian government says the bourse isn't opening yet, it's reasonable to take them at their word.

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serryjw

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Sat Mar-18-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #19

23. This is BIG, this is HUGE

the Delay and only Mohammad Asemipur is reporting it. No other newspaper in the world has picked this up...I find that strange

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muriel_volestrangler

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #23

24. No newspaper has been saying the bourse will open on the 20th March

It's just been internet commentators whose sources aren't given. The last actual statement from an Iranian official was back in September, when they said they planned for a March 2006 opening, but hadn't yet made any plans to use the euro:

LONDON, September 7 (IranMania) - Iran?s stock market chief dismissed reports that the proposed oil bourse will use the euro as official currency for petroleum transactions, stressing that the Stock Exchange Council has not made such a decision.

Heydar Mostakhdemin-Hosseini, who heads the board of directors of the council, told ISNA that the council has agreed in principle to the establishment of a petroleum exchange, stressing, however, that the details of the project have yet to be discussed.

?A consensus on the establishment of an oil bourse has to be reached before discussing the details of the project and the possible branches of the bourse,? he said in response to reports that the proposed petroleum exchange will have several branches across the country.

He said the Stock Exchange Council is required to determine what types of transactions can be conducted at oil bourse.

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=35269&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs

Since then I've been able to find no comments from Iranians at all, just unsourced claims by commmentators. The article shows that it's never been that firm a project. The claims that the US would start bombing Iran before March 20th to prevent trading in euros of oil have never had any basis.

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serryjw

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #24

25. Sorry, I don't believe it

I have read too many false flags in the last 5 years. WE are discontinuing the release of the M3 monetary aggregate because our gov't read a few articles on the Internet??

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muriel_volestrangler

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #25

27. I don't know why the M3 measure is being discontinued

but this DUer, who is a professional economist, thinks it's useless:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=474909&mesg_id=475632

Maybe the current US Treasury economists agree with him.

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serryjw

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #27

28. IMHO

TOO much of a coincidence!

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havocmom

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Sat Mar-18-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message

5. Thanks for the links, geroge_hurley!

The more attention we can raise to the connections and the more people we can help become aware of the connections, the better the chances for getting masses to turn out in oppostion to junta aggression

:thumbsup:

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ClintonTyree

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message

9. I can't stress enough how important this is.........

K&R. If every American were aware of this, if every American knew about the politics and economics of oil, there would be some MIGHTY changes in our culture. However, the average American continues on his blissfully ignorant way totally unconcerned with what goes on in the REAL world.

Everyone should read and understand this. It is for this reason alone that over 2,300 American men and women and countless Iraqis have died. It IS all about the oil and the house of cards that is the American economy.

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Gronk Groks

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Sat Mar-18-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #9

22. If this analyst is correct, we are toast...

...doesn't matter if Dim's or Thugs keep control...the economic underpinnings have been destroyed.

We might, just might, be able to salvage the economy (if not American Supremacy) by diverting virtually all military spending into balancing the budget/debt reduction and going to alternative (non-fossil fuel)production as fast as possible.

This would mean abandoning our reliance on the only two props that are keeping America from immediate economic implosion, however. The (very large) gamble is that we could bridge the gap before the implosion hits. This is very much a desperation move.

We may have no other choice however other than to die a slow lingering death, much like the British did when they lost the Empire in bits and pieces.

Politically it is impossible though.
The reThugs are wedded to the idea that military force can stave off economic disaster. In the immediate future they are right, but by 2020 we implode.
The Dims are too afraid of the Thugs to take the all out gamble that will be needed to succeed.

Like I said we're toast.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong...

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freefall

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #9

29. Oh to be blissfully ignorant. It must be such a pleasant state. Why did I

have to be born with an inquiring mind.

Just kidding of course but there are days when blissful ignorance looks mighty attractive!

Peace,

freefall

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helderheid

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Sat Mar-18-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message

10. you're not _THE_ George Hurley.... are you?

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leftchick

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Sat Mar-18-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #10

21. who is THE George Hurley?

Edited on Sat Mar-18-06 04:50 PM by leftchick

:shrug:

edit: so I had to google... this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hurley

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helderheid

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Sat Mar-18-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #21

26. Only THE BEST drummer whom I happened to get to share a beer with 10ish

years ago before a fIREHOSE gig in El Paso :)

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sasha031

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Sat Mar-18-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message

12. thank you for the post

an excellent historical account of a fall of a empire...

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freedomfries

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Sat Mar-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #12

20. k & r

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