Pledge of Allegiance poll

Besides the "Under God" part, how many of you believe in the Pledge of Allegiance. How many people here really feel some sort of allegiance to the flag and/or the republic for which it stands.

add on the word "sometimes" to the end of the pledge in public. I get looks from people and I just smile. They know too.

on after thought..
I think I'll start adding on "sometimes, but not very often".

If people would pledge a little more allegiance to their fellow brothers and sisters and actually follow their "justice for all" part of the pledge, I would be more willing to be all giddy about the flag. As it stands, a large percentage of people would rather fight for the words of the pledge of allegiance than to fight for the rights of the people the flag represents.

of a free and equal society
and to the humanity it represents
one Earth under Democracy, indivisible
With Liberty and Justice for ALL.

To something that is good and is for the betterment of man or the world. And a republic government is one of those as long as it does good.
But there is no shame in qualifying that allegiance and reserving it for times when the republic is actually doing something that is morally agreeable with you.
And no one need ever pledge allegiance as if they were getting married...unntill death due us part.

Really... get to that last line and start choking. Gave up trying to get over it decades ago.

It is not the flag I hold most dear and need to publicly proclaim my love for. The Constitution, now there is something worth pledging allegiance to. Instead of proclaiming support for it, as an afterthought and for the Republic, for which it stands I choose to spend energy to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution instead of mouthing platitudes and jingoisms mindlessly.

The fact that we, as a people seem to have that backward might just be part of the problem :shrug:

Granfalloon - http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/Granfalloon

A granfalloon, in the religion of Bokononism (invented by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass". That is, it is a group of people who outwardly choose or claim to have a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless. The most common granfalloons are associations and societies based on a shared but ultimately fabricated premise. As examples, Vonnegut cites: "the Communist Party, the Daughters of the American Revolution, the General Electric Company, the International Order of Odd Fellows -- and any nation, anytime, anywhere." A more general and often-cited quote defines a granfalloon as "a proud and meaningless association of human beings." Another granfalloon example illustrated in the book was Hoosiers, of which the narrator (and Vonnegut himself) was a member (however grudgingly). In the same book, he introduced foma ("lies") and wampeter, all terms of Bokononism.

Or even a representative republic...

Ragged Old Flag by Johnny Cash

I walked through a county courthouse square,
On a park bench an old man was sitting there.
I said, "Your old courthouse is kinda run down."
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town."
I said, "Your old flagpole has leaned a little bit,
And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it."



He said, "Have a seat," and I sat down.
"Is this the first time you've been to our little town?"
I said, "I think it is." He said, "I don't like to brag,
But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag.



"You see, we got a little hole in that flag there when
Washington took it across the Delaware.
And it got powder-burned the night Francis Scott Key
Sat watching it writing Say Can You See.
And it got a bad rip in New Orleans
With Packingham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams.



"And it almost fell at the Alamo
Beside the Texas flag, but she waved on though.
She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard, and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag.



"On Flanders Field in World War I
She got a big hole from a Bertha gun.
She turned blood red in World War II.
She hung limp and low by the time it was through.
She was in Korea and Vietnam.
She was sent where she was by her Uncle Sam.



"She waved from our ships upon the briny foam,
And now they've about quit waving her back here at home.
In her own good land here she's been abused --
She's been burned, dishonored, denied, and refused.



"And the government for which she stands
Is scandalized throughout the land.
And she's getting threadbare and wearing thin,
But she's in good shape for the shape she's in.
'Cause she's been through the fire before
And I believe she can take a whole lot more.



"So we raise her up every morning,
take her down every night.
We don't let her touch the ground
and we fold her up right.

On second thought, I do like to brag,
'Cause I'm mighty proud of the Ragged Old Flag."


I love our flag, almost as much as I hate what Bush and his Repuke cronies have done too it.

More interested in the thing they intend to represent.

First, I know you said to ignore it, but I am opposed to "under God" in the pledge. It is a very clear case of establishment of religion.

Putting that aside , however, I am still opposed to children saying the pledge. It has nothing to do with my allegiance to the republic or the flag that is a symbol of it. It has to do with the idea of indoctrinating children through the use of loyalty oaths. I think it is wrong. Anyway, we shouldn't (and don't) need loyalty oaths to instill a respect for good ideas and a good society. Let the ideas and the society deserve the respect.