What I find totally depressing about recent polls...

...however positive the results may seem to us, is that there apparently exists a solid, unshakable 33%-40% bloc of support for a president with authoritarian leanings and a seemingly complete disregard for the Constitution and Bill of Rights...

...no matter how badly he does.

Think on that awhile. In a way, I could better stomach genuinely high approval ratings (60%+) for Bush if things were going well (as they did for Reagan during the mid-'80s boom"). That way, I'd figure that it was merely the results of Bush's leadership they were approving of, not the philosophy behind it.

But, as it is, it seems to me that a third of the country or more just likes the idea of a right-wing dictatorship -- fascism without even making the trains run on time.

And I hate to think what that bodes for the future. :scared:

and I take exception to your phrase "there apparently exists a solid, unshakable 33%-40% bloc of support". His support is neither solid nor unshakable and will continue its slow but inexorable decline.

...but I have to wonder what more it would take for current Bush supporters to turn. If they haven't concluded, in the face of all the current evidence, that Bush is a miserable failure, would he need to be caught tunneling into the local bank, or shoot someone in public (hey, it worked for Cheney!), or (gasp) be revealed to have received blow-jobs from a young intern?

My point is that those who currently back Bush do so in spite of the results of his presidency. Which tells me that they are people who embrace his ideology of imposing a right-wing agenda (and the Constitution be damned), not his effectiveness. In other words, a bloc who prefer right-wing philosophy to democracy. And that's a chilling thought indeed, because, long after Bush is gone, they'll still be voting.

"My point is that those who currently back Bush do so in spite of the results of his presidency. Which tells me that they are people who embrace his ideology of imposing a right-wing agenda (and the Constitution be damned), not his effectiveness. In other words, a bloc who prefer right-wing philosophy to democracy. And that's a chilling thought indeed, because, long after Bush is gone, they'll still be voting."

which corresponds to the percentage of hardcore RW religious fanatics who have supported him all along. No chance of change there, however their sway on American politics in general is slipping along with Bush's falling popularity. He has lost the great majority of Independents, has completely lost Dems and now many in his own party are finished with him. I can't be overly concerned with the 20% of fundies who still adore the nincompoop when they are all he has.

to be profitting from all of the "mistakes" that have been made

i have very very wealthy repug friends who now hate *..they hate him maybe not near as much as me but they hate his policies..they hate the debt he has put us inot and they hate this war..they speak horribly of him..

but on the other hand i have a very dear friend who is poor but mormon..we can no longer talk..our realationship is a long one and now all but over..and all she does is praise * and god...and yes she is very poor and her husband has been out of work now for several years..she had to get a dead end job just for their survival...

so don't just assume the rich support this lying pig in our white house..

oh and by the way , my hubby and i are very well off and gave a ton of money to kerry and all dems in my state and other states..we hate * with a passion..

fly

The 33% are the Christofascisti; they've been told Bush is God, err,
good and they always believe what they've been told to believe.

They would gladyly see most of us here exterminated so America
could be more godly.

Tesha

and learn that this is a country....not a church....that promotes extermination....

...more than the opinions of the people who write them. Simply, if they started reporting 'legit' numbers, that would no doubt be <30%, then you make it harder to stop the rot so to speak. People will drop support for him faster if it will start reflecting bad on THEM not him. By keeping all reported polls at a static 35-40% level, they create the impression of a president under fire, rather than an unpopular ratbag. Polls = more spin.

uninformed or stupid, or religiously insane.

even to themselves. Sound familiar?

The trickle down economy certainly didn't seem like a boom to me......

..."boom" was supposed to be in quotes.

If you recall, from about '83-'87, the economy seemed to have recovered from late-'70s inflation and the '81-'82 recession, and to be headed upward. Granted:

a) it was a "recovery" fueled by a massive increase in debt (sound familiar?), and

b) it was driven by grossly inequitable conservative policies, and thus was far more beneficial to those at the top of the economic ladder than the rest of us.

Still, to all appearances, it was a considerable improvement over what came before. And, even the "average guy" no longer had to contend with double-digit inflation or unemployment, so they could rationalize that "the Reagan Revolution worked." :puke: The point is that Bush supporters don't even have that means to rationalize their support, but they back him anyway.

small in numbers...so why we give them any creedance is beyond me!
we should be wiping the floors with them..instead we pander to this sick bunch..

fly

that if you took any country/society/culture you would find about that percentage of people who are drawn to authoritarian leaders, and are nascent fascists. It seems to be a certain personality type, thankfully in the minority. What we have seen it that 30-40 percent become empowered in this country, and it is indeed a scary experience. Having enjoyed a heyday, the fascist-leaning American minority will likely be harder to control in the future, and that is pretty depressing.

get them to vote Demo in 2006. But first we must motivate the base.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

They need the security of someone to direct their lives and provide for them. And of course they are irretrievably stupid.

They can't accept that they are responsible for Bush's unblemished record of failure. When they say they still back him, they mean they can't admit they were wrong.

It truly is religious based. Forget common sense. Forget all your normal reasons otherwise.
They believe we are in our last days, deficits are meaningless, they have won the abortion argument, morality has been politicized and everything is under control. You have to love them for it though. They are sticking up for what they believe just as well as you are.

Many people tend to trust leaders despite anything they do simply because they are "our leaders". The polls supported Clinton during the height of the impeachment hate fest, because he was the president.

Supporting the Bushco, I have a hard time believing that there is genuinely 30-plus percent of our populace that actually supports them.

Because chauvinism during a time of war - even a staged, phony war that serves as a cover for empire building and a war against freedom - there will always be simpletons who fall back on blindly, unquestioningly supporting the "home team," despite every situational inducement that indicates grave hypocrisy.

I read the pimping of the 30% polls as a desperate measure to help the Estab (hopefull) convince more of us that things aren't as grim as they are.

.... coined a term for this years ago. He calls them the "30% idiot contingent". They are mostly deluded "christians". Bush could sprount horns, a tail and wave a trident and they would still support him.

The only good thing is that they are not a majority, and they never will be.

screw a pink elephant on the front lawn of the white house with a million cameras catching the action..and they would find some damn excuse for him..

they are sick people and why we pay one damn bit of attention to those sicko's is beyond me..they are not even a real minority.

fly

I think he is just becoming unpopular in the way many presidents become less popular in their second term. I think the war is becoming less popular, because I think the people that were in love with the idea thought it would be over quickly and don't know the PNAC from Buggs Bunny. I still think at least 50% of the population have no idea about the abuse of power that has been going on. Sorry, I know this post is pessimistic, but until I see the truth more on TV and the front pages of our papers, I believe we remain in serious trouble.

Given our foreign and domestic policies, these are perilous times. And I agree that unfortunately many people still have no clue as to what exactly has happened/is happening. However, people viscerally pick up on it even if they convince themselves that they're "too busy" to bother informing themselves.

Conversely, the fact that this admin likely doesn't even have 30%, yet "we the people" haven't risen up and kicked these guys' asses is a far more troubling reality.

Fascist families? Some institution for morons? Nazi school? Just where the fuck does it come from is the burning question?

Plotters, planners and connivers of a particular mindset eventually formed various alliances and "groups."

The media are (is?) a very powerful tool and we were way too late in realizing this.

There is constant reinforcement of talking points and misconceptions through (especially) AM radio as these 30% drive to work or to shop.

Religious fundy radio is also rife everywhere. (One can only wonder how may new religious radio stations have been purchased by organizations that now have lots of extra money through "faith-based" government grants.)

This is, of course, not the only factor. But I think it is an influential, one.

and know them Pubs have used this to some degree for a very long time...

The "Authority" is taught to the Peeps in such a way....they do not think of it as a YOKE but that of Goodness....even if pain is involved.



Another way to look at it: A Lot of Us have become adjusted to continually hitting ourselves on the head with a hammer because it feels so good when we stop.... that we continue.

Where people would continually give - what they were told to be - increasingly powerful, harmful electric shocks to other people simply because "authority" was governing their choices? Very creepy.

"We are actively discouraged from thinking constructively and questioningly, and once an individual has accepted the numb acquiescence so encouraged, an insidiously vicious circle has successfully been promoted. Another rather convenient result of such a situation is that people who don't think constructively and questioningly don't even realize it." ~ Michael Timothy, "The Anti-Intellectual Ethic"

your question of WHY.

I actually think the mid-thirties number is accurate, and here's why.

It comes down to support of the Republican party. Even if you know your leader is doing a terrible job you still might say you support him to keep the party from being taken down. If the media, and everyone else, is telling you that Bush's low approval numbers are hurting the Republican party wouldn't you consider saying you approve just to help other's in your party. I'm not saying I would do this, but many others might.

I would like to see a poll that asked the strength of approval. I know there is one that asks if you strongly approve, somewhat approve, strongly disagree, or somewhat disagree.

I think his strongly approve numbers are probably way down in the teens. Actually, here's a link from rawstory--> http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Gallup_Bush_disapproval_rating_lowest_of_0308.html. It shows his strongly approve numbers at 20. I think the somewhat approves are those that can't stand Bush, but vote somewhat approve to help the party.

Am I way off here?

a large and sleazey power has overtaken America and it will take personal pain for these losers to realize they are just pawns

People mentally digest such garbage while perceiving it as "reality."

That's the key aspect to why the explanations of how propaganda and brainwashing end up sounding so bizarre and "nutty" to people: there's a natural tendency to "go with the flow," and most people, since childhood, haven't been roundly encouraged to really think and feel for themselves ..hence, my family and friends and co-workers all watch the same TV "news" as I do, occasionally read the same major periodicals, etc, so how could so many of us HAVE IT ALL WRONG? ..that elusive sense of cultural familiarity makes them ask?

Answer: it's much easier than you'd believe, or would like to believe.