Should men stay out of the abortion debate?

This is often a topic of discussion and I'm sure folks have some thoughts to share on the subject. I am interested in reading these thoughts.

..and they'd be available at every sportsbar and Jiffy Lube...

If we were the ones who got pregnant, we probably wouldn't be the ones making the laws.

Sorry for the caps, but that answer just blew me away.

It is absolutely logically correct.

but we don't have to listen to them because it is our bodies.

it's primarily a social/health issue that concerns BOTH women and men. No women use abortion as contraception.
Unwanted pregnancies are to 99% a social issue for everyone concerned, women first, but all the surrounding society too. Not allowing abortion is creating major problems for society as a WHOLE.

the privacy approach is only a red herring to avoid to discuss the real issues : contraception, sexual education, health risks among pregnant women and the month after birth (where 80% of the infant mortality occurs), decent living standard for single women, access to care an education for children...

"my body" is primarily an issue for white rich women. The rest have NO CHOICE.... abort or stay poor or even die

with your points

Although the OP focused on abortion so I did as well.

And I stand by my point that once the pregnancy is in place, the decision if the woman's. Period.

It's none of our business unless the baby in question is ours, and then it should be a decision of mutual agreement.

As far as law goes, it's not for men to decide imho.

he can just bolt if he chooses. He can say yes, I want you to keep the baby, then 6,7, 9, 10 months later he can hit the highway if he wants.

Otherwise, all bets are off.

Like I said, I don't think men really get a say unless they are the father. And even then, you have to earn the right to be a father. That's something that actually does start at conception.

an opinion on the subject is the father of the baby. And, even then, not so much.

it's my nature.

right to choice when it comes to one's own body.

With men saying yes or not and women...yes or no.

That would be very insightful, I think.

Men should be front and center in protecting a woman's right to control her body as she chooses relative to this issue. "Conservative" men don't stay out of the issue. They blow up abortion clinics. Confront them. Defeat them. Maintain constitutional liberties for all citizens.

If he is the husband of the pregnant woman, well, if it were me (being the man) I'd want to have a say. However, if I'd had the big snip and burn job... well, that could get complicated.

I had a girlfriend drop her daughter off for me to babysit. All I knew was that she had a dr's appt. She called me from home later to ask if the girl could stay a few hours longer... that she'd just had an abortion and wasn't feeling so great... I know for a fact that her husband had a vasectomy right after the birth of their daughter because I watched their daughter when the wife took him in for the surgery. They agreed they wanted no more children. I really hated being put in the position of knowing about this.

different way, would anyone mind being prohibited from abortion if only other women stopped them?

I don't think so.

hey, since no woman has ever been president, should women not be allowed to vote? :eyes:

then you will fight for their right to choose.

(at least that's my opinion)

It's a personal choice. So women and men should stay out of the debate - all the women and men that are not involved in or knowledgable about the specifics.

I think that men should be supportive on a woman's right to choose, period. I also think that all people belong in discussions.

and I say hell yah we should, if the roles were reversed, and men got pregnant, abortion would not even be debated.

People who know that they don't want to be parents should take permanent measures, imo.

That leaves the people who are waiting for the right time to use birth control.

Men should always use condoms, and never count on whatever the woman is doing to guarantee that they won't end up supporting the choices made for an unwanted pregnancy.

my body, my choice. PERIOD.

Should whites have stayed out of the slavery debate?
Should non-South Africans have stayed out of the apartheid debate?
Should men have stayed out of the sufferage debate?

All of us are entitled to participate in this debate. And on both sides of the issue--as on all issues.

I cannot believe progressives would even begin to think that certain voices cannot be heard in a debate: That's a hallmark of the conservatives we detest.

:)

Bad choice of a title by me.

On edit: My apologies to the OP. Stupid me!

is whites could be slaves; have been slaves. Apartheid by other names isn't particular to South Africa and men can be and have been deprived of sufferage. But no man will face an unwanted pregnacy.

I believe men should have a voice in this debate; they have no right to deny any woman the choice.

Whites were NOT slaves in the U.S. Men were not deprived of sufferage. The rest of the world didn't live in apartheid South Africa.

Is this or is this not a civil rights issue?

Men have been slaves throughout history; they still are in some parts of this world. What could you call the situation for Afro-Americans before the Civil Rights movement except apartheid? Men were deprived of sufferage because of their race, their class or their economic situation (property ownership). I did not say that men in this country face these problems today, but they have and could again.

Is it a civil right that any man is denied?

your not actually giving men a voice in the debate. At least not when you say "they have no right to deny any woman the choice".

because they certainly have a right to express their opinion. However, I believe no one has the right to deny any adult in possession of his or her faculties medical treatment of choice nor to force that person to undergo any medical treatment.

would be?

You are dead on with those past examples--good thinkin'.

And if anybody seriously thinks this, ask any African-Americans or Native-Americans whether anybody who was neither and helped both in their struggle to fight of their rights to become equals in the eyes of the law whether they just should have "stayed out of it".

And it seems that mainly the people fueling this debate are white (natch) guys who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about - like Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson.

But it's not. While those morons deserve to be demonized, there are MANY, MANY, MANY people who truly and conscientiously believe that abortion is wrong.

I live in a very Republican area. Believe me, not everybody who is opposed to abortion--even adamantly opposed to abortion--is a misogynist who simply wants to control women. Most of the people I know who are most opposed to abortion are women.

It's much more complicated than that. And we MUST realize that instead of just saying "shut up, you don't deserve to be heard on this issue because" _______ (fill in the blank).

I detest conservatives who do that. I equally detest progressives who do that.

He says, "I am against abortion. But my opinion only counts if I am the father of the woman contemplating abortion or the father of the fetus."

go over with you?

He uses the line on his redneck acquaintences, who usually recoil in horror once he's said his piece. If you realized our particular circumstances, you'd understand that the statement is, for him, really funny.

He is a hard worker, very compassionate and would give you the shirt off his back. He will go out of his way to help anyone. My husband once asked him why as a working man, did he vote republican. He said it was because he was against abortion. It was the only reason he voted republican. My husband asked him if he would like the government to have control over his body? He put it in a crude guy way, but that was the gist of it. His friend said it wasn't the same thing. To which my husband replied, "Sure it is, when the government tries to tell me what I can or can't do with my ****, they might as well cut it off, since I will no longer have control". His friend got that. That and the fact that he was against the war, he now votes for Democrats. Not sure if that is an answer to your question?

in this debate then we have to add post menopausal women too.

:shrug:

I understood what was meant.

Back at ya.

It's a societal problem, and until women get pregnant by other women, men are stakeholders, too. Even then, the children produced by whatever means in this country are a concern to all citizens.

Women get the nod on the decision to abort, but not exclusive rights to the issue.

of healthcare and reproductive decisions. Once that control cedes to the Government, it can be further expanded. Maybe vasectomies for all men over 35 with a family history of heart disease...you know, because chances are they'll die young and leave babies fatherless! Whacky crap! OR, quarterly donations to the sperm bank...mandatory, but only for those already genetically tested and approved. Everyone else is a looooosssserr!

Crazy sounding...but so was 1984 when I first read it.

Hell, nobody has ever stopped ME! But should they have the deciding voice/vote on this issue? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

protesting outside than women! These are older guys who have nothing better to do on Saturday mornings. One of the guys has a van with blown up color photos of aborted fetuses (so he says). He goes to abortion sites all over the state and has been involved in lots of court cases. They also carry signs warning women that abortion causes breast cancer, a total lie.

I often wonder what has happened to these guys that they concern themselves so much with women's uteruses and breast health. I also wonder if the women who are out there with them don't ask themselves the same thing.

That's the choice that men have. Otherwise the choice is up to the woman. At least that's what I feel.

... welcome men when, and only when, the men agree with what the woman says.

When the men disagree with the women, then the women do the "you have no say over our bodies" thing.

Not criticizing or anything, just reporting what I've seen...

This is strictly a fight between those who possess some basic working medical and scientific knowledge of a woman's reproductive system and embryonic/fetal development and the know-nothings who basically don't give a damn how it works or how many people know how it works, but are told over and over that there is a soul in the woman's womb as soon as semen enters the vagina. That's where I see this debate focused.

Thanks for the dose of reality.

rights!

:smoke:

that the most visceral critics of abortion are male? Talk about control freaks. Yes, I believe males should stay out of the abortion issue.

I look at this way; just assume that if you make someone pregnant, what happens to the fetus is out of your hands.

If you're not comfortable with that, then wear a condom. For added protection, find out before hand how the female feels about abortion. If you're too lazy or immature to do these things, then don't complain if the fetus you helped create, is aborted.

Women are just as "visceral" about it as men. Some of the opposition IS about controlling women, and they are assholes. But very much of it is NOT about controlling women. If you continue to characterize this debate in such a simplistic way, we'll not get anywhere.

there is nothing simplistic about this issue. It does seem however, that almost all, not all, but almost all of the anti-abortion and "pro" family groups, are headed up by middle-aged white males. I've always found that a bit odd.

And of course the bomb throwers, literally the bomb throwers, have all been males, to the best of my recollection.

In fact the one person who is loudest and most against abortion in my life, is a girl I know who is very religious, and the fact that she hasnt managed to get pregnant yet makes her hatred for abortion even more intense.

I doubt there would be much debate.

Stop pretending it is. It's not that easy. Let's behave like progressives and prevail with ideas and not with false arguments.

Favoring Abortion: Men Versus Women

Situation Men Women
All or Most Cases 54% 58
To Save Woman's Life 88 88
To Save Woman's Health 82 83
In Cases of Rape/Incest 80 81
Physically Impaired Baby 53 55
To End Unwanted Pregnancy 43 40
D&X/Partial-Birth Abortions 28 19
Pregnancy is 6 Months+ 15 8

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html

And don't forget - most voters are women. If women uniformly supported full abotrion rights you'd see a very different set of elected representatives.

Last I checked, we're involved in reproduction as well.

Talking like this marginalizes pro-choice males in a big way unnecessarily.

Don't debate -- protect. Men should protect the rights of women. Aborting a child seems like a sad and horrible thing to me but taking away a woman's choice is not consistent with freedom. On the other hand Repugs' claim that their goal to protect the unborn is 90% of the time a lie and/or a political ploy that has nothing to do with pursuit of freedom on their part.

Or, are very close to her and she needs your support....

Then, you can discuss it with her and she can take your opinion into consideration when SHE makes the decision.

How myopic are some of the responses in this thread. :rofl:

Of course not and I think men have a place in the abortion debate. That may be a silly analogy, but that's how I've always looked at it.

I guess they need to keep their mouths shut too???

Men have every right to be involved in the abortion debate...as they should be. They have the right to an opinion on the matter, and a right to voice that opinion.

However, being part of the debate is not the same as being the one to make the decision. Nor is it the same as them being essentially the only ones making the laws. The ultimate decision is up to the individual woman. Nobody...man or woman...should have the right to legislate it.

I know it was on DU that I read. More men than women support choice.
So if we don't stand up for womens rights and women don't either.

Ciderhouse Rules

but I still think everyone should have a voice in the debate.

because the debate is about medical privacy and the right to make the decisions that affect your own medical care. Men should absolutely be supporting a womans right to make her own medical decisions.

Sid

- you should stay out of it. I don't think there is a debate.


It's up to the woman. If you support that choice - then by all means - do that. Get involved politically, even.

As a woman, I think I have preference over what happens to my body. However, males as well as females have a vested interest in the conception, birthing, and raising of children, and therefore have, at the very least, the right to tell us how they feel.

I don't support laws forcing women to inform the father if they are going to have an abortion, but I think that most women will tell their partners anyway, so that is a moot point for me--those who would not probably have a lot of other relationship issues besides an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy.

In truth, naming the discussion "debate" is a mischaracterization. How can there be debate about whether human beings are entitled to human rights? The anti-choice position has no moral standing; outlawing abortion kills women. How is it even possible to "debate" with people who would condone the deaths of women (or any other group of people), the denial of their human right to autonomy, privacy and physical safety?

If we MUST be drawn into a verbal war with these people then men, by all means, should participate, to stand up for the women they love. Men have both the privilege and obligation to work in defense of human rights for all, just as do women. I am proud of the men who stand up for this right.

If the OP is asking whether men should have any any say in individual abortion decisions, the obvious answer is that the choice is the woman's. A man may offer advice, comfort or aid, but he has no claim to a woman's body for any time or reason.

:yourock:

Sitting around and being quiet about it does nothing but make the other side twice as powerful. You know the fundie men aren't going to shut up about it.

In addition, since side by side numerically in comparison more men support choice than women do overall, the pro-choice cause would actually be hurt MORE by stifling the voices of men. Not sure that would be such a smart idea, ya know?

To say that they should is a classic example of ab hominem argument.

Whether or not an argument for or against abortion is valid has nothing to do with who is advancing it.

if you mean a debate over one person thinking of having an abortion, no one but those asked by the person thinking about having an abortion should have a say in the debate.

If you mean a debate over the morality of the act of abortion and the various social issues leading to and arising from, then why not, if people wish to debate such I see no reason to limit it to one gender.

I suspect you mean a debate over the rights granted by the court decision Jane Roe vs. Henry Wade, in which case men as well as women are granted the right to control and regulate their bodies without undue government interference, and certainly men should have a say in a debate over rights that have been granted to them.

its not my body.

maybe I am wrong

of any gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, age, etc.... the day I tell anyone they have no voice, is the day I am no longer a liberal.

Personally I know more women against abortion than I do men.

Said so much in such a concise way. I agree 100%.

but ultimate decision for the individual rests with said individual.

as a man, i don't feel i should be able to tell a woman what to do. but that doesn't mean that i should keep my mouth shut about the issue of the legality of having one. there is a difference.

But women know what's best for themselves, and I think the anti-choice movement (most of which are men) need to get that through their thick heads.

But that's where it stops. No man should be allowed to make this decision for a woman.