Stick a fork in me. I'm done.

I've sat through farce after farce of a hearing with these jokes of rat bastards of Senators in my time. I've seen glimmers of hope that made me think that maybe, just maybe, they do know how to stand on principle instead of giving in to political pressure. But I know now that this is all a farce. What initially looks like a principled stand slowly shifts to a cautious objection, then to wavering, than to a mealy-mouthed acceptance. There was a time when this NSA spying program was enough to stop the Patriot Act in its tracks. Then it was enough to get a hearing with the Attorney General. Then it was nothing again. Now, it's inappropriate to even mention it.

There was a time, too, when the Dubai ports deal was outrageous. Then, almost overnight, it was outrageous to oppose it. They didn't bother with the slow shift of apparent change. Probably because money was involved. No use wasting time when money is involved.

And it's the same on our side as theirs. The desire to compromise, to attract the middle. Which is outrageous because it's not the middle that won the elections or raised the funds for them. You never see Sam Brownback on the floor saying he will soften his rhetoric about baby-killing (notice, incidentally, how the Republicans are the blame-America-first crowd when it comes to that!) because he wants to attract the moderates. But caution, caution, it's the order of the day for the Democrats.

Caution is the second stand for the Republicans. Read my first paragraph. They shoot their mouth off and then retreat from it. We just skip the shooting our mouth off entirely.

But this was the last straw for me. I have never seen such an abandonment in my life. To think that only Leahy had the balls to show up for Feingold. To think that the others could not see fit to attend the hearing as a chance to "discuss the measure." Isn't it worth even discussing?

Dear lord. Don't tell me they're afraid someone will get to them. All we need to see is one act of political retribution and we will have the evidence we need. We need someone to take one for the team and then never stop talking about how he got stabbed in the heart. Hey. Any Senators close to retiring? You want to take a stand? The bad guys sacrifice their friends for the cause constantly. Maybe we need to do the same to show them just how bad they are.

I believe in most of what the Democratic Party says it stands for. My problem is, when it stands up, it's only a few feet high. Sorry, boys, but I can't see victory or justice from that height.

I can only hope Russ will continue to lead despite this rebuff. If he were to start his own political party right now, I'd follow him. I'm praying that he will have the courage to stand up where Paul Hackett (another brave man who simply made a different choice) sat down. Again, that's fine for Paul, but I swear that if Russ folds I will lose all hope.

Sometimes, I think that I will have to stand up myself. But who would follow me, even if I never gave in? I'm just the Witch.

who did Dubai Dubya's UAE buddies end up unloading the terminals to? Surely they're not still in charge?

ow agenda's -- plus they do have their choice for the Dem presidential runner. - not even Conyers made a peep? at least the pepukes stick together, ya gotta give them that much...!

Actually it is a Republican Senate hearing as Democrats didn't bother with attending. Tell me again how Nadar was wrong in saying how there is not much difference between the Parties.

at first. We can only hope that others will find the courage to follow in Russ's footsteps, but if not, I think we may have to admit that our leadership is crippled, and we alone are the leadership we seek. I have a feeling there is going to be a big uprising of the "little people," look what's happening with immigration protests, students hitting the streets in record numbers...

If we can't count on our leaders, we need to stop letting them take the lead. Keep the faith, Witch...we need every single one of us to fight this battle.

There were no political risks in standing with Russ Feingold. None. Harry Reid and the no-shows are useless and shameless.

I'm STILL flabbergasted by that! The sad thing is, we can call and call and call and email and email and email and they just IGNORE it and play to the "sensible center" they so badly want. Well, guess what? They can just see how much money, time, and effort they will get out of the almighty "sensible center." They won't be getting one cent from me. I'm done too. NEW DEMOCRATS ONLY! I'm sick of their high and mighty attitude toward ME. I PAY THEIR FUCKING SALARIES! It's their job to do what I want and time after time they ignore me.

Except, maybe it's time that we stop expecting anybody with a $2000 suit and a DC apartment to represent us. Seriously dark days are coming in this country, and I firmly believe that it is common knowledge among those in Washington, and that is why they're unwilling to do anything. They are protecting their own. They're hoarding cash, getting their ducks in a row for when the lid blows off. Because when the shit comes down, we're all going to be on our own. Still, they've been elected to do a job, and they have to show up and keep the seats warm. They can't muster much enthusiasm for any issues because they know it is pointless.

The debt we have isn't just unsustainable, it is suicidal. Yet, we're piling on more. The war we're waging we aren't winning, but we're about to start another one. There are fucking lunatics running the asylum, and they're so far relying on America's universal laziness and stupidity and ignorance.

There is really only one solution that I see coming, but because of the Patriot Act, I dare not even allude to it. ;-)

This is OUR country, after all. We simply need to muster the will and the outrage to DEMAND it back from the robber barons and corporatists.

The two party institution that has taken root since the very start of our nation, which I have always believed to be detrimental to our nation, has come home to horribly roost. The two parties have consolidated into a duopoly of entrenched power. They have insulated themselves from challenge by rigging election laws. Not only have they made it virtually impossible for an outside independent or third party movement; but through their stacking of the deck for incumbency, have made an internal revolution within a party just as impossible.

The result is absolute power, power without accountability. The culture of corruption, rife with profiteering, has created an environment where an element of the power structure is emboldened to go even farther, into more illegal and more immoral depravities.

A grassroots groundswell of non-violent dissent is the only way to reclaim our country. The galvanizing issue to overcome the mass apathy and ignorance is ripe for the picking. 9/11. Yes, the same issue that the government has used to consolidate power is the grounds by which to oppose it. Whatever you believe or don't believe about the 9/11 attacks themselves, the attack aftermath issues directly point to bi-partisan complicity in a cover-up and whitewash of the whole truth surrounding 9/11.

How can universal government silence about the rapid, bizarre and brazenly criminal destruction of the ground zero evidence, the intentional misinformation about ground zero air quality, the lack of investigation into the stock market put options, the lack of public disclosure, the lack of accountability, and the farcically inadequate 9/11 Commission Report be explained? How can it become any more clear that when push comes to shove, above all else, Republicans and Democrats will close ranks to protect the entrenched power structure they together have conspired to create and mutually benefit from.

If we cannot bring ourselves to catalyze now, before it is too late; we will deserve the consequences that our government brings down upon our heads.

I don't buy into these dog and pony shows. It's a whole lot of demagoguery and political grandstanding. Bush is done, and I believe so is his party. People are not buying into the bullshit anymore, they overplayed their hand. We're going to have another couple of close elections coming up, and we're going to have to fight like hell to beat these bastards back again.

Keep believing in and fighting for your ideals, you'll respect yourself in the end, and you'll be so much the better than the inhuman cretins you are fighting against, because they have no ideals. They exist on lieing, cheating, manipulating, killing, and torturing. They are sad and pathetic.

They might take our material worth, they might try and take our civil rights, but they can never take our dignity or our self-respect, unless we let them.

Peace.

:patriot:

That's the only thing Specter and Roberts have in mind.

Once they open this door, once they force the final version the Specter/Roberts insanity through, the concepts, not only the practice, but the concepts, of checks and balances and rule of law are gone.

And nobody would support him. We've seen that today.

how the fuck much is a bunch of cilantro?

because i'm mad as hell.

for Xmas, and they're VERY hot






PS...that was a funny thread last night...too bad the mods are so 'efficient'

before I had to turn the rat bastards off. I did do something constructive today, I went to the home place and picked us a big mess of wild onions.:mad:

Seriously...improved my mood today!

While they're busy pretending they don't know him, he's beginning to generate a progressive and populist following.

While it's true the system has stacked itself against a viable third party, there's such a thing as running Independent.

The Dems MUST endorse Russ!

I'm going to email them exactly what you said
"the democrats abandon Russ Feingold at their own peril."

when it stands up, it's only a few feet high

So true


I wish Russ would start a new party

In forming the nucleus of a new party too. I'm sure that Bernie is with Russ all the way here!

...they occupy would join the Green Party or start another party. The mealy-mouthed weak kneed dems make me sick.

the most shameful display of bickering, partisan politics I have ever seen and I've been around more years than I care to think about. If our esteemed Democratic Senators had given more backing to Senator Feingold, maybe this hearing would have made a difference. Too much to ask, I guess. Again, the self-promoting repubs, Hatch, Specter, Graham at al have so totally mucked up the issue that the whole thing was an exercise in stupidity and rude behavior. Senator Feingold was dignified during his presentations but he was the only one. I never heard so many detours from an issue. The panel was insulting, self promoting and just plain obnoxious. I will think long and hard before I support and donate to any political party again. Its back to the candidate only. Sorry, Senator Kerry. I know you are not on the Judiciary committee, and you, Senator Kennedy, you could have made a loud and clear position. Hey, Governor Dean, How loud did you scream this time. Yea, I'm angry. I think I might start deleting all the e-mails I get requesting money. I never have had much to give but I have tried. Please Senator Feingold, are you our only hope left??

and in brief, this isn't Dean's purview. He's not supposed to take a stand on an issue on which dems are divided. He has a job to do. That job is organizing and raising money. He's working on strengthening the grass roots of the party- and that's just what he should be doing.

if it got passed!

"Here lies lonestarnot, and the fight she never forgot!"
"NEVER SURRENDER BASTARDS!"

male, not that it makes a bit a difference it's always nice to find out a little bit about the people that you fight in the trenches with in regards to this war of disinformation day in and day out.

Copy editor genes kicking in ;-)

to them more. It's a man's world you know.

I knew when I said the male/female thing that it would raise some eyebrows.

Sorry if I crossed any lines:yourock:

:hi:

:patriot:

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

At least, I'm fairly confident in that. I suppose anything could happen but Russ folding isn't something I see as really likely.

It's so frustrating to watch this, isn't it? I don't understand why they can't just do their jobs. It was just a hearing. Why don't they want to at least hear the argument? Is that too much to ask?

I want an explanation from them. (I won't hold my breath).

He is a completely different type of politician...

It was frustrating, I do support Leahy's approach however... HE didn't sign on, but he did ask the appropriate questions and took a "let's investigate " approach which is respectable and appropriate.

I am deeply disappointed in the rest, if there is ANYTHING that Democrats need right now its f*ing UNITY, you idiots! Take one play from the Republican playbook, its UNITY. Without it you are a bunch of self-righteous, egotist blowhards!

Ask a question or two if you're feeling "bold." How hard is that?

political one.

instead of voting for my milksop of a Democratic Senator, Bingaman.

He's got only a 60% positive voting record. He'll probably also be reelected.

However, if his support starts to be eaten into by the Greens, maybe he'll clean up his act and realize that just fattening his own portfolio and watching his pension accrue weren't why he was elected in the first place.

We as activists and advocates should be calling on voters to examine voting records which are a true evidence of where you stand.

they know what they're doing. That their actions, and apparently inactions, are part of some grand strategy to get the House and\or Senate back in Democratic Party hands.

I'm afraid I just don't have that kind of faith.

Look, if the Dems lose in 2006, but go down fighting like hell, then it continues to be my party of choice. If they go down on their knees, the silence only broken by a whimper, and an apology...

Helloooooooo Greens!

:shrug:

Because I don't think the public is against censure..... I know the people listening to the hearing is no measure but it was interesting to hear from republicans who think Bush is anti-Republican and should be penalized.

leaders. They are merely The Democratic Wing of The Corporate Party. Who gives a shit what "the little people" want? Their only purpose is for a few to show up and cast uncounted ballots every couple of years to legitimize the corporate agenda.

about what the citizens think and what the citizens want? At least Leahy was there, honestly representing his Vermont constituents, but I'm sick to death of the rest of them who appear to treat Feingold (a certified god, IMHO) as if he's a nut. Maybe it will take the 2008 primaries to wake their asses up. I won't vote for anyone who doesn't support Feingold and I will definitely vote for Feingold if he runs.

I can't possibly imagine it, but I suppose everyone thinks their own position is right...

IMO, the Repubs made a grave miscalculation today. When you've got people in your own party that support censure and the rage in this country is palpable...

Well, you are just not listening. I believe it will bite them in their treasonous asses. A girl can dream, right?

peace.

I'm sad.

is, behind such a gross lack of support for Feingold? It makes no sense. I believe that most of the country, Republicans and Independents included, favor Censure for His High(Low)ness. How much is Reid responsible for this? Is there anyway to replace Reid?

have millions wrapped up in the corporations? It always ties back into the money.

They don't want to upset the companies that buy them their re-elections. They don't want to negatively affect their own balance sheets.

They are millionaires, they sit in Congress and talk about spending billions for this and trillions for that. How much could they possibly relate to us? Representative government? Not anymore - not until we get the cash out of politics and the votes counted in ways we can verify.

"There was a time when this NSA spying program was enough to stop the Patriot Act in its tracks. Then it was enough to get a hearing with the Attorney General. Then it was nothing again. Now, it's inappropriate to even mention it. There was a time, too, when the Dubai ports deal was outrageous. Then, almost overnight, it was outrageous to oppose it."

Same patterns for: DSM, election tampering, WMD, Iraq incompetence, deficits, environmental rape, Medicare lies, Plame (for everyone but Fitzgerald), Sibel 9/11 revelations, Rule 21 invocations, really bad nominations including judicial, lobbying reform/Abramoff, Sciavo debacle, and more misdeeds in every policy area. Insiders and insider books come out with damning truths about what hot water we're in....and go nowhere fast.

Once most of us see what's going on, we can make changes and stop repeating the same mistakes over and over. There are enough scandals and misdeeds in the memory hole to sink a dozen administrations if only there was the will to pursue them.

Don't be "done." Just stop placing false hope in undeserving places.

I mean, they are both from Wisconsin, they are both even Jews (not that that means anything) where was he?????

From what I understand, unlike Kohl, Russ is not a millionare..

That's really the root of the problem. The congressmen have figured out they can pretty much get away with anything.

There is the 70% who are desperate to get rid of Bushit, and there is the bottom 30% in IQ.

Just as there is no longer any middle class, there is no longer any middle ground.

gives power to centrists and Republicans when it wants people in power who want to make only cosmetic changes and are impatient, full for greed for power.

It gives power to Democrats when it wants fundamental change and people who don't value power for its own sake.

I read this post and wonder. The People expects of us to fix and save this foundering Titanic, not long worries about particular deck chair arrangements. Why it is pretended that our leadership is to blame...I understand why people prefer that view, but it's not the large truth of our situation.

I have the same problem with "little" Democrats 'standing up' and having too little stature or perspective. I see it in the average, vocal, Democrats as much as the leadership. Demanding change for the sake of change, simply because things feel intolerable, is not a true plan and not an exercise of power that matters. That is why The People stymies this behavior that is just activity, frustration manifested, just lashing out at Things We Don't Like and is not true action. The People does not see a true principle or commitment or the humility needed in average Democrats either.

We'll get power when we stop demanding it, when we have the confidence and commitment internally to be patient and let The People and Republicans finish up with each other on their own. Rather than get between them. The People prefers us, is already leaving that crap abusive boyfriend, but has to do so on her terms.

both houses of congress supporting him. But, many of us here see the terrible danger and know that once this power has been given to any President either Democrat or Republican...the PEOPLE will NEVER GET IT BACK.

When you see folks here who are beside themselves begging someone to stand up....just realize that's its those who see the terrible danger.

Think of why John Dean would want to put himself through any of this when he had made a new life after Watergate. How John Cornyn and Arlen Specter spoke to him today at that hearing was a disgrace. But, these people will come after anyone who disagrees with them...and to see Democrats staying away from that hearing...not even questioning the "witnesses" that Specter and Repugs stacked the deck with...was a sign of weakness in their characters rather than just sitting back and waiting for the Repugs and the People to sort it out.

I understand what you say...and when other DU'ers say we need to wait. But, this has been going on since 1994 and many of us have been through this too long to wait anymore. And, many of us worked so hard within our Party to get the vote out...to get involved....and yet ...this is what we see after so many years. The frustration and anger along with overwhelming disappointment is at times too much to bear...

the PEOPLE will NEVER GET IT BACK.

We have the weakest President ever now and he's getting weaker and more desperate every day at a constant rate. Time is our ally. The politically definitive action that settles the issue for all time is that he destroys himself. (Which he is on course to do.) If we destroy him, the Right will consider our argument unproven and force us to deal with it again.

I understand what you say...and when other DU'ers say we need to wait. But, this has been going on since 1994 and many of us have been through this too long to wait anymore. And, many of us worked so hard within our Party to get the vote out...to get involved....and yet ...this is what we see after so many years. The frustration and anger along with overwhelming disappointment is at times too much to bear....

Overcoming ourselves, our own addictions to moralisms and fearfully running to moral higher ground and taking offense by proxy and generally the behaviors of the eternally powerless and outraged, is the hardest battle of all.

The People wants a party that governs well, is principled and focussed on the future and wise to the present. It has the GOP for harboring resentment and grudges forever, is unprincipled and anger-filled at the present not being what it is supposed to be.

With the new electronic voting machines will we even have the option of a write in vote?:think:

I am totally heartsick over the usurpation of our rights with the Democrats' complicity.

I'm sure in awhile I'll be ready to pick myself up, dust myself off and try again. But damn, it hurts.

Did I mention it was the off year election six years into a lame duck presidency? Even setting aside the issue of principles, it doesn't even make any sense as pure strategy.

The strategy seems to be to cave in and then tell your base what an electoral albatross they are and how they're just a bunch of whiny assholes you don't need anyway.

Oh, and by the way don't forget to send in that check to the DLC, you fucking hippies... Brilliant.

my ego is fragile. :) :puffpiece:

My empathy lies completely with you. I know exactly how you feel and I'm really sick of it too. I'm especially sick of people implying that people who think this way are "bad Democrats" for feeling disappointed in our elected representatives for not representing us. Look how many others feel the same way. This is a pretty long thread.

:pals:

It seems like they take turns standing up to the Repubs, if and when they do. They can never do it together.

Is this by design??? Is my tinfoil hat too tight??? Sometimes I wonder if the Dems are just there to distract us a little. They aren't a true opposition party.

The Republicans are not entirely off base when they exploit the culture card. Elite Dems are well meaning and entirely conceited. The experts understand that domestic spying is wrong, but they think average American is just too goddamn stupid. (I'll come clean and admit that I've been guilty of this kind of thinking myself) They think they can hide their self perceived differences with Joe Six Pack with clever triangulating and then get into office and have enough political finesse to govern like FDR without alienating any "NASCAR dads" in the process. It never works.

In the end you've got to have faith that if you speak up for what is right there is enough latent public opinion on your side to back you.

It's for the DNC and for Democrats, but I'm not terribly excited right now by the Democratic Party. If I had any money to spare I'd send it to Vote Trust USA, anyway.

With little enthusiasm. Mostly because the idea of DeVos as Governor scares the shit out of me. I live in MI.

Got a message from Stabenow yesterday for help/$. She can go hit up her friends at Citibank for the cash. She doesn't need me.

I think our state has been set up for election fraud to repay a huge donor ... but we gotta try.

I've got the envelope on my desk! Mind
if I use your advice when I send it back:

Dear Senator Stabenow:

Here is NOTHING for your campaign. Please
go and hit up your friends at Citibank if
you need backing, since my "back" was "stabbed"
already by your bankruptcy bill vote.

I will vote for her, but I WILL NOT work for her.

But I voted for Kaine for Govr. and so did a lot of people in the previously repuke western burbs of D.C..

Warner is a war-mongering fascist and Allen is a smirking chimp clone/bigot. Writing to them, calling them and/or emailing them is literally insane, if your definition of insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different result.

Warner said he's not pro-torture, gee what a leader huh?

VA is 1/2 full of the stupidest, most mundane and most robotic people I've seen on Earth. The vacuous looks in their eyes is enough to scare the hell out of anyone.

:shrug:

Come over to Maryland, if its that bad!

Painting Virginny blue. :)

:toast:

:applause:

People are figuring out who's on their side and it ain't the Republican Party. They're now proven liars, incompetants, cheats, and self-dealing pols of the worst sort.

Dems are inept (geez, we couldn't even stop rigged elections !) but our hearts are in the right place. R's...do they even HAVE hearts ?

what were they all doing?

The gutless, no-show Senate Dems who refused to back Russ Feingold during the THE BIGGEST CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS OF OUR LIFETIMES will be remembered henceforth for their craven cowardice.

In a way, they are far more destructive to America's system of constitutional democracy than Dewine, Snow and Hagel... the GOP lapdogs who brokered the backroom deal with Rove to castrate the full Senate judiciary committee hearings and proffer "figleaf" legislation which allows Bush to utterly ignore the Fourth Amendment from now on.

No one has ever expected anything from the aforementioned GOP lapdogs but rote acceptance of the Bush Administration's latest dreary talking points.

But with respect to our Democrats on the Senate judiciary Committee, we who value our constitutional heritage had, until today, remained confident THAT THEY WOULD AT LEAST SHOW UP!

:grr:

are Rove operatives.

How on earth can anyone look at this country with a straight face and believe that holding our tongues and waiting until the next election will solve a thing?

Hey, while we're at it, let's not mention that we're Democrats either. Fox News has made the Democratic Party fall out of favor. How will Democrats ever win an election again if they keep insisting that they're Democrats! Everyone knows no one likes Democrats! They wear flip flops and drink French wine and they hate America!

C'mon get with the coop, er I mean group.

Where were the senators? None of them showed to WITNESS and STAND with those who were unjustly deprived of their votes, yet had the courage to share it and put it on record for us. Remember? Think of the power that might have been represented for all Democrats had our leaders showed they would STAND. I t was that important. We might not be where we are today if we had taken a stand then.

For most (like Stabenow and Levin) nothing has changed. Those expressing dynamic leadership now? Changing: Feingold and Boxer. They are presidential. I could also vote for Dean, Harkin, Leahy. They are leaders, always...by example and I can trust that. I miss Paul Wellstone.

I am very disappointed with the no show from Michigan. Call them all out by name...over and over if necessary.

TELL THE TRUTH, don't you?

I agree with EVERYTHING you just wrote!

And I LIVE in Michigan, and they WILL hear
from me.

We need a People's Party.