My two cents.... What do you think?

In debating the state of affairs with freeper types over the past 8-9 years, I have made the following observations:

1. There are more freeper types than there were in early 1990's
2. They are far more fanatical than they used to be
3. They are quite up-to-date with current news, albeit THEIR version of things
4. They are thoroughly indoctrinated, almost brain-washed with misinformation
5. Almost all of them are "angry-white-males" who feel victimized.

I would blame one single factor for causing this: conservative talk radio. All the other factors pale in comparison to the power of the conservative talk radio with its millions of freeper-type listeners who religiously get their knowledge from that source.

We let conservative talk radio start, pooh-poohed it initially, ignored it as it grew and ridiculed it when it took a commanding hold.

In my opinion, the answer is not more liberal talk radio. Liberals have been thoroughly demonized. We need "firebrand" (to use a MSM term) talk show hosts who reach these people by a) acknowledging some of the liberal excesses (I know I will get flamed for this but yes, some liberal policies went too far at times and did cause injustice in pockets), b) acknowledging what ails these people and c) addressing their concerns from a progressive perspective. This should be done with a clever intermix of passionate rhetoric with interwoven memes and messages of how Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage/O'Reilly are liars and how their lives have been destroyed by conservatives shedding crocodile tears. We need people who can make the word "conservative" an anathema just as they have succeeded in making the word "liberal" today. I can cite Karel as an example of the sort of host I am talking about. Al Franken types won't cut it in my opinion.

Unless we counter with such a type of "mainstream" radio (NOT liberal talk radio) I doubt we will ever reach them via any other means. The conservative talk radio will remain powerful and a political force even if we win a few elections because it will keep the danger alive, seething and motivated all the time like what happened in Clinton's second term.

How can we get more Karel types out there, fund them, sponsor them and give them national exposure to direct more people to their audience?

I think that it just seems that way because hate radio gives them such a loud voice. It seems to me that there are less than during the 60's, but maybe what we are seeing is more of the ones that do exist are becoming bolder, since they have a president and congress to latch onto now...

In any event, they will EXTREME themselves right off the planet before too long. I see people who I once thought were total redneck extremists even getting disgusted with "them," so that's a good sign.

Great thoughts, though. We need money in order to buy more airspace and get our messages across, but for now we have the Net...

as the awful truth of the utter incompetence of this gang in power starts to dawn on the brighter ones.

The departure of a few just makes the remainder get louder, more defensive, and nastier. This is the dynamic of the schoolyard. If a bully's sidekick moves away, that bully has to step up his activity so nobody notices.

However, they are pushing themselves right off into the lunatic fringe. When hate radio started out, it sounded seductively reasonable: "what's wrong with expecting those welfare queens to do a little work? Why should I have to pay to raise some other guy's kids? Why can't I keep more of what I earn?" Well, it's spun way out into lala land now, and even the hardcore is starting to notice and deny they ever listen to it (although they obediently recite the day's talking points).

I have been debating with a group of people since Clinton's impeachment. These are not your garden-variety nazis -- these are people just like you and I. I have seen them turn to the dark side more and more and not one of them has given up.

As an example, the Bush spying story should have made the white house roof cave-in. However, the hate radio imemediately went on the offensive and all these people are now firm believers that Clinton did it too -- which is far from the truth.

Perhaps their ranks are thinning where you are but I live in the bluest of blue places (San Francisco bay area) and am astonished about these people! If I shook my head every time I felt like it, it would be orbiting canis major by now.

if Clinton had done it they'd have strung him up on the WH lawn on national TV. I'm shocked too, sometimes, I mean the freeps have their insane people but I have people who I work with who are freeps, and you would think would know better. I think it's a combination of fear and lazyness. They are too lazy to seek out the truth, they would rather just believe what the government tells them, and they are afraid of what they might find if they do seek the truth. I have talked to a couple of people on DU who used to drink the kool-aid and they explained to me how difficult it was to see the truth. Basically it's a complete change of their values system, and some people just can't deal with that.

A lot of Californians are moving to Arkansas because the cost of living is so low. Several I have met are extremely conservative, even those from the Bay Area. You are right that they appear to believe anything they get from certain sources, and aren't about to be swayed from their beliefs. I don't try to dissuade these folks, but work on those who aren't sure or who are trying to figure out things-these are the ones that can be swayed, and when they change--we have a new political group in my county which was founded in part by ex-Republican retirees from other states who have settled here. They raise money for ads in the local paper, have meetings, public lectures, do demonstrations, write letters, etc, etc.

laughed at some of his comments -- never thought he would last. boy was i wrong. and you know what, i've studies hypnosis and when you're driving you're in an altered state and having people like limbaugh blasting into your ears, it goes right to the subconscious mind.

Just curious.

http://www.karelchannel.com/subpages/radio/radiomain.htm


I have not heard of Guy James if you have a link, I'd appreciate it.

could participate in things like the Nazi death camps.

Unfortunatly, a quick visit to ferak republic provides the answer.

but it's funny-I don't find the foaming at the mouth freeper types running around here. I am wondering if what we are seeing are not more freepers but more freepers on the internet. I've noticed that talk on the internet is much more intense than it usually gets in real life because of the anonimity. The two freeper types that have confronted me were giving me religious grounds for their support of Bush (and this was 2003, when I was part of an anti-war protest). I replied that the Constitution gave them the right, and they looked rather startled at me and the other protestors. No confrontation, because they couldn't disagree at that time that the Constitution gave them the freedom to speak and worship as they wanted.

I think it is very interesting that since that time I have come across only one freeper, and she was supporting Bush based on misinformation. I simply said, "Let's agree to disagree-but you might wish to check on your facts, as I will mine." I see her from time to time in the course of my business, and she's always been pleasant ever since-none of this "kill the traitors" rhetoric that you find online.

I listen to 1400 from Boston at work, and sometimes the fellows come in and listen, too, and they either don't comment or comment favorably on what Al Franken and Stephanie Miller say. Around here, there isn't even a hate radio station (just country and rock stations and NPR), so maybe that's why I haven't come across anyone who is hateful. But when I travel to Springfield MO, I don't get any negative reactions to my Peace is Patriotic and Democratic Underground bumper stickers, either.

The entire media is owned and strictly controlled by the corporatists. There seems to be a fundamental disconnect on this issue even here, in the heart of the resistance, the corporate masters are not re:puke: or democratic, they couldn't care less which party rules as long as that party is beholden to them and their bribes (contributions).