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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:49 AM
Original message
7 minutes of sanity in 2 hours of boredom
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 10:50 AM by SergeyDovlatov
 
Run time: 07:06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfLo0fuQq0
 
Posted on YouTube: October 10, 2007
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: October 10, 2007
By DU Member: SergeyDovlatov
Views on DU: 2862
 
I had to work hard on myself to watch through an entire republican debate last night.

Actually, 3 or 4 times I walked away from the tv to calm the nerves and not to throw something heavy into an innocent appliance (TV that is), but then convinced to finish watching it.

For those who didn't watch it. Here are a few minutes of the debate that were OK and even somewhat reasonable.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Mitt Romney's thoughts during Paul's discussion about economics:
"The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round
The wheels on the bus go round and round, All through the town!"
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Sorry, still a Republican
Maybe a Republican who dislikes the war and sees economic disparity but still a Republican...

At that note, you do realize this is a site that supports the Democratic party, do you not?
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I do realize it.
Though I think that I did a valuable public service to the community and spent two hours of my time watching the republican debate, so that others don't have to. ;-)

Imagine how revolting it was and I had the stomach to sit it through (barely)
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. He is right about the economy though
and I would like our candidates to weigh in on this in a detailed way. Just because he is a republican it doesn't mean some of his ideas don't have merit.
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Have merit for who?
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 12:22 PM by terminal_concept
People who never have enough money?
Libertarians believe in zero dollars minimum wage.
No taxes.We have working people drawing food stamps because they can't afford food.We have people who can't afford housing. What will he do with those people?
Those people get it from both sides . Either lower the cost of living or raise wages, then they won't need assistance.This guy would remove all the regulations and at the same time remove all the assistance.Small government my ass. The corporation are trying to overthrow our government.

Typical Republican response ,give the rich more money.
This guy would deregulate trade . Don't we have enough problems with outsourcing?This guy is all the worst parts of the republican party.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. He is right
about the federal reserve, about the military industrial complex, about our country being bankrupted by this war, about the deficit, about the destruction of the middle class. I am saying we need a discussion on the economy and he IS right about a lot of things in my opinion.
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Your answer doesn't say anything.
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:16 PM by terminal_concept
You can say you are in favor of anything while actually being against it.
Destroying the federal reserve would benefit bankers.
Destroying governmetn regulations would benefit the Military industrial complex.
How are you goig to pay off the deficit without taxes?
Which of his policies support the middle class.Maybe deregulating food and medicine?

He does all this while telling middle class he supports them.Do your homework.This guy is the lyingest politician I've ever seen .

Go sell this bullshit to Republicans that way they are sure to lose.Quit trying to siphon off Democratic votes.
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That is so wrong (RE: Destroying the federal reserve would benefit bankers)
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:36 PM by SergeyDovlatov
Bankers were the ones that wanted federal reserve in the first place!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve

Centralized banking was met with much opposition from politicians, who were suspicious of a central bank and who charged that Aldrich was biased due to his close ties to wealthy bankers such as JP Morgan and his daughter's marriage to John D. Rockefeller, Jr. In 1910, Aldrich and executives representing the banks of J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Kuhn, Loeb, & Co., secluded themselves for 10 days at Jekyll Island, Georgia.<2> The executives included Frank Vanderlip, president of the National City Bank of New York, associated with the Rockefellers; Henry Davison, senior partner of J. P Morgan Company; Charles D. Norton, president of the First National Bank of New York; ... Vanderlip wrote in his 1935 autobiography From Farmboy to Financier :

I was as secretive, indeed I was as furtive as any conspirator. Discovery, we knew, simply must not happen, or else all our time and effort would have been wasted. If it were to be exposed that our particular group had got together and written a banking bill, that bill would have no chance whatever of passage by Congress…I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak of our secret expedition to Jekyll Island as the occasion of the actual conception of what eventually became the Federal Reserve System.”


JFK was the last politician brave enough to take upon federal reserve. I am glad there is someone who keep federal reserve issue in the spotlight.

Military oversees spending is the easiest thing to cut politically and provides hundreds of billions in savings.
You need to look at practical ways of addressing the problem.

Quoting from http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/01/election-candidates-po...

"Congress should dramatically reduce its overseas commitments, as well as spending in areas like corporate welfare, and devote one-half of the savings to debt reduction and the other half to transitioning to a market system of retirement security and health care. This action will allow the government to meet its obligation to those relying on Social Security and Medicare while allowing younger people to escape the mountains of debt we are leaving--$60 trillion of liabilities."
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Don't get your info from wikipedia!
Look at the "Ron Paul" page, it's squeeky cleen. The sixteenth amendment page includes a tax protester section. The federal reserve is a complex issue. That's why I won't take the word of no Libertarian on such a complex issue!

Now of course is when I get swarmed by "Ron Paul " supporters.

Is not the function of the federal reserve to have GOVERNMENT control over the banking industry?
Why yes it is. Don't give me no "I don't trust it " bullshit . That is it's intended purpose.

This guy is a Republican and somehow you are trying to sell him at a Democratic site.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Have you seen the video "Money as Debt"?
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 08:42 PM by JohnyCanuck
It explains how the banking industry under the oversight of central banks create most of the money in circulation through debt (bank loans, mortgages etc) and how the money thereby created and put into circulation is never enough to pay back the original debts plus the loan interest incurred. Therefore, more debt has to be created to get more money into circulation, but it ends up in a dog chasing tail situation where overall debt in the economy has to keep growing over time in order to keep sufficient money in circulation, because if there isn't enough money circulating the economy will crash. Some alternatives to debt based money are discussed (but very briefly) in the video.

This is the web site where you can purchase the video www.moneyasdebt.net. Or if you have a high speed internet connection you can watch it on Google video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

This is what Elizabeth Kucinich has to say about this video:

Elizabeth J. Kucinich, monetary reform activist partner of
Congressman, and US Presidential aspirant, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

"I have worked for a long time looking into monetary reform and after 10 years, finally someone has produced a DVD entitled "Money as Debt". It is a fabulous fun yet powerful introduction to the issue of monetary reform. It's the best over view I have seen so far; the best by far. ESSENTIAL! Everyone should watch it!

The topic of DebtMoney is THE issue of our times. It forms the basis to every nation's areas of core material and spiritual concerns such as economic development, employment and environmental sustainability.

If only government officials, civil society organizations, environmental groups, unions and well meaning international development strategists trying to eradicate poverty really understood this topic... the world would be a much better place.

Only 47 minutes long, this DVD is ideal for public education in schools, colleges and universities, as well as individual or family viewing, with lots of juicy re-useable quotes from prominent bankers, economists and presidents."

www.moneyasdebt.net (click on the link labelled "Reviews")


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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. BIG PICTURE - $48 TRILLION of DEBT in America, and rising rapidly



BIG PICTURE - $48 TRILLION of DEBT in America, and rising rapidly

Here's one graphic of many shown in the main Total Debt Report, linked below.

This is A SCARY CHART - showing trends of total debt in America (the red line, reaching $48 trillion in 2006 vs. growth of the economy as measured by national income (blue line). (adjusted for inflation). That debt increased $3.9 Trillion (9%) in the past year.

Which line goes up faster, the red debt line or the blue net national income line? Answer: the debt line.

And, that debt line is going up faster and faster than national income! Right?

(maybe, like this chart, your own personal or business debt is also going up faster than your own income - - possible?)

As mentioned, debt is here defined as all U.S. debt (sum debt of federal and state & local governments, international, and private debt, incl. households, business and financial sector debts, and federal debt to trust funds).

This chart shows, for the period 1957 to mid 1970s, total debt (red line on chart) was increasing close to the growth rate of national income (blue line on chart), despite war debt for WW II, Korea and Vietnam.

But, in the last several decades total debt has zoomed up, up and away - - growing much faster than national income. It has now reached $48.4 Trillion ($37.7 trillion private household/business/financial sector debt PLUS $10.7 trillion federal, state and local government debt).

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm


Quote from the producer of the video "Money as Debt":

Money created as interest-bearing bank credit is a magic trick, a fraud - now 3 centuries old; one that very few people have seen through despite, or rather because of, its utter simplicity.

It is my intention to make this mysterious debt-money system comprehensible to everyone. It is also my intention to foster sufficient understanding of the problems with this money system that citizens will be motivated to join the monetary reform movement and/or create local alternatives to the global monetary system - a system in which most of the productive people of the world are collectively chained to an ever-increasing and perpetually unpayable debt.

This is a system designed for elite control of the people by those who have given themselves the privilege of creating money. It is also, I believe, a system that is designed for catastrophe. As the movie explains, there can be no sustainable civilization without a sustainable money system

http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/ProducersComments.html

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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. lol at (Quit trying to siphon off Democratic votes.)
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:32 PM by SergeyDovlatov
RP is the best thing that happened to us in '08. He said he is not supporting republican nominee (hint hint 3rd party run, anyone)

He will be be Ross Perot of 2008. He will split the repub votes and give the presidency to any dem running.

I think we should not be afraid of Ron Paul, but encouraged if he improves his name recognition since it will make him more likely to run as a 3rd party.

Do you honestly believe he can win repub nomination? He was just voted most hated men on the right by right-wing bloggers.
:rofl:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2007/10/rightofcenter_bloggers_select_3.php?loc=interstitialskip
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. How convenient
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:55 PM by terminal_concept
The "Ron Paul" spammers didn't find that poll!

Oh wait ,YOU DID!

make up your mind .Do you support his position or just want him to run third party?
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. made me think
I see... Getting a little worried that Rudy will lose in the next election.
Based on the quality of your postings I start to wonder whether Giulianni campaign payed you to infiltrate DU.

:rofl:

Seriously, though. Just relax and enjoy the election. This one will be an interesting one to watch.
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. If I wanted Rudy to lose.
I would sell "Ron Paul" to Republicans.
I'm seeing this stuff all over the web. You can't discuss anything with these people.
They are not reasonable .
I've retreated here to DU and theres nowhere to go from here.
So don't bring that crap here.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. Don't let him bother you. I got the same treatment after asking an innocent question about M. Moore.
I had been posting liberal messages and contributions for months, and one day, on a Michael Moore-thread, I asked a question about something I had read in a Dutch newspaper that very day that I never had heard of before: did Moore have stocks in Halliburton? Then a mega-flame fest began. Lots of people told me I was a right-winger, a Republican in disguise, and that I (I quote) "should feel very unwelcome" on DU.

A lot of these people are paranoïd freaks. They see a Republican behind every post that isn't in 100% agreement with everything the Democrats say. It was a huge dissapointment for me, since I thought all the sane folks were on DU. Up until that experience, I had a good time here.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. You must be joking
Because I say he makes some good points that automatically means I support his run for office? Good grief. I don't think in black and white. Our govt is supposed to be in control of our money not the federal reserve. This is an area it might be worth your while reading up on. I wouldn't vote for him if my life depended on it. That doesn't mean some of what he has to say doesn't have merit.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. As a site populated by free thinking democrats...
we should give credit where credit is due. I miss the old republican party that Ron Paul represents because at least you knew that if they got elected the lives of those needing government supported programs would probably suck, at least they wouldn't see themselves as a Christian army doing the work of the Lord (and hastening on armegeddon if you believe in such things). I can recognize good arguments no matter who they come from and I'm sure you can too. As my grandma says, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day"...unless it's digital:)
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hurricaneric Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ron Paul wants to ...
pull out of the United Nations and dissolve NATO. He's crap.
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I have no sympathy toward NATO
NATO is an aggressive alliance and serve no purpose whatsoever apart from promoting new cold war.
* War of aggression against Serbia.
* Trying to encircle Russia

Maybe not entire UN, but UN Security Council needs to go. It is a tool to legitimize wars of aggression.
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hurricaneric Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well there you go
but in my opinion, NATO provides a crucial mediating force in ethnic conflicts such as the Serbian/Albanian conflict or the Lebanese/Isreali conflict. As for the UN security council, it's not so much the organization that is at fault, it is the nations -- largely the US -- that is the problem and by extension, the leaders of those countries. We need more diplomatic organizations to avoid wars, not fewer.

sounds like you have more in common with Ron Paul/libertarianism then Democratic ideals, or maybe I'm just reading between the lines?
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I grew up in Soviet Union
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 12:23 PM by SergeyDovlatov
before immigrating to US so I do have a different perspective on NATO and Serbian conflicts.

I am all for UN peacekeeping forces, but not using UN to give an aura of legitimacy to bombing other countries.

Russia suffered the most casualties in and contributed most to winning WWII. Most of Russians consider the War most obnoxious manifestation of evil. So, naturally, being anti-war is one of the major qualifying factors for me. Next two are protecting social security and reducing federal deficit.

Mike Gravel, Dennis and Ron Paul are the ones who most out spoken on the war.
I don't feel that Edwards, Obama or Clinton are serious with respect to ending the Iraq mess and altering US foreign policy
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. what to say
Ron Paul spam on DU.
I honestly wanted to watch the debate but every time I search youtube all I get is "Ron Paul".
It's always the same message.
The federal reserve.
But I don't have money in the bank ? How do I benefit from that?
I guess I get trickled on again.
This guy is the military industrial complex dream come true in an anti-mi-complex message.
"Ron Paul" is a liar and a deciever.
I would be willing to sit here and let them nominate hime because then they could expose how ridiculous his policies are and the dems would win for sure. But I don't want us to get that close to SLAVERY.
No i don't believe "Ron Paul" supporters swarmed the internet out of thin air. Neither do I believe 5 million dollars came from said thin air.
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. I don't know that he's a liar or deceiver
Only RP and those closest to him would know that. BUT... my gut feeling is he quite sincerely believes what he's talking about. He's too consistent in his message. So I see this dichotomy between his observations of current affairs and his plans for solving our problems. I agree with him when he talks about his observations but I cringe at his libertarian solutions. Some people just don't get that, though, and see only one side or the other.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. Gotta say that did kick some buttski.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. "Zhopa" actually is Russian for Ass
n/t
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That is correct
n/t
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
42. Spasibo no cherez 4 goda v istochnei Evrope, po moemu znaio neskolko slov!
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 08:03 AM by YOY
n/t
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Awwwwwwwww guiliani you absolute moron.
:argh:
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wow he really owned the debate results too...
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:18 PM by rAVES
Mysteriously, the CNBC poll results vanished shortly after the debates ended. However, for those who want to know the results, the last post we were able to record were as follows:

At 5:46 p.m EST:

1. Which candidate won the debate?

Ron Paul 75%
Mike Huckabee 7.1%
Mitt Romney 5.6%
Fred Thompson 5.3%
Rudy Giuliani 3.6%
John McCain 1.8%
Duncan Hunter 0.7%
Tom Tancredo 0.7%
Sam Brownback 0.4%

2. If the GOP primary was to be held today, which candidate would you vote for? * 8253 responses

Ron Paul 76%
Mike Huckabee 7.1%
Fred Thompson 5.5%
Mitt Romney 4.9%
Rudy Giuliani 3.5%
John McCain 1.5%
Duncan Hunter 0.8%
Tom Tancredo 0.5%
Sam Brownback 0.3%

3. Which Republican candidate is best for your money? * 8253 responses

Ron Paul 76%
Mike Huckabee 7.2%
Mitt Romney 5.6%
Fred Thompson 5.2%
Rudy Giuliani 3.2%
John McCain 1.1%
Duncan Hunter 0.8%
Tom Tancredo 0.6%
Sam Brownback 0.4%

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1526617595&size=l

http://dailypaul.com/node/3195

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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's because
They are obviously gaming the internet.There must be a large group of paid spammers somewhere. Maybe they outsourced it. Every poll on the internet is being cheated by "Ron Paul" spammers.

P.S. no one is fooled.
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. yea amazing isnt it?
you'd think after the last few Debates the monied cretins Guiliani would have learned their lesson and done the same...since it seems so possible.
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Sufficient Voice Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. You see these are not paid spammers.
They are spammers, but not paid. They just love Ron Paul so much they spend their time doing this. You see some people on the right really love their country too (although they might have a narrower idea of what that means then most of us), and see it falling apart like we do. They have simply have been told to mistrust democrats, government, and liberals their whole life. They feel that Ron Paul is the only person who can save our country. (Although many of them don't think Dennis would do that bad of a job either. They feel that Dennis' heart is in the right place.) I know this because these Ron Paul followers are always at our anti-war demonstrations, our civil rights demonstrations (although they don't always like the ACLU), and our election reform meetings. Sadly, they are more passionate than most progressives.

Although some of their actions might be misguided (like gaming internet polls). I challenge you (and frequently myself) to be as passionately dedicated to your beliefs as they are. (ie it ain't about money, its really is about love, sometimes it is, even on the right.)
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terminal_concept Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. that proves it then
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 05:03 PM by terminal_concept
Libertarians are real.
I saw one too.he looked just like "Ron Paul" ,and he had a green hat with a shamrock.
And he said.
Once I abolish the federal reserve,me pot o gold will be worth a fortune.

Libertarian principle are in direct conflict with Democratic principle and I would not be letting them infiltrate your organization.

Somehow with Democrats having overwhelming support ,Libertarians are out talking them on the internet. No thanks, i'm not buying it.

Love is not lying and decieving.

edit:
DU members taker note of the nearly flawless psychology of the posters .Bravo.
Lets all go spam something.No you will never be able to outspam them.
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. eh christ.....
would you rather Mitt Romney? there does HAVE to be a viable opposition you know....
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. He gets more money, but the polls are not increasing
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 05:18 PM by CGowen
By SUSAN DAVIS
October 4, 2007; Page A6

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Ron Paul disclosed more than $5 million in third-quarter fund raising for his insurgent Republican presidential bid, the only Republican in the field so far to report increased donations.

While the Texas lawmaker remains a second-tier candidate in a party field dominated by the likes of Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, his grass-roots campaign continues to build steam, thanks to thousands of small donors over the Internet.

Campaign spokesman Jesse Benton estimates that as much as 80% of the campaign's donations are received online. In the final week of the third quarter, Dr. Paul, a licensed obstetrician, raised $1.2 million in Internet donations alone. The $5 million haul more than doubles his $2.4 million showing in the second quarter.

The funds will allow him to increase staff from 44 to 50 aides and to conduct his first major media buy heading into the crucial early primaries. The campaign has set a goal of $12 million for the fourth quarter.


....

By contrast, Mr. McCain is betting on success in Iraq. He has struggled financially and is expected to report numbers on par with Dr. Paul. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee also leads Dr. Paul in the polls, but raised an estimated $1 million in the third quarter.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119146668063148662.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. polls are faked.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. They are, but how much ?..............n/t
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Obviously that would depend on
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 11:56 AM by rAVES
how much the General public disagrees with the MSM/elite.. in this case Kucinich and Paul are hugely popular and the MSM do not like that, so they have to fiddle the polls (or outright make them up) to make it seem pointless to the public to vote for them.. its an absolute disgrace and an affront to democracy.

Paul's results in all the debates, along with Kucinich are absolute PROOF that the Polls are rubbish to be dismissed.




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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. there was a thread on Kucinich not long ago
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Heh.. Disgraceful...
The rest of the world can see this quite clearly.. so when Bush et all go on their rants about freedom and democracy, you might understand the collective eye rolls.. though I'm sure you aint alone with this kind of manipulation.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh my - he is going to take a big chuck of the R base if he ever
decided to run as an independant.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. I think Ron Paul will attract a lot of Republicans, and the debates give
hime a leg up because he stands out in the crowd. I got called freeper yesterday because I pointed out that Ron Paul may well be the opposition candidate and a candidate who has a clear stand on the war (however wrong he may be on other issues) may atttraft more of the genreal public than someone with a murky stand.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Some of my Democratic relatives are speaking about him
since watching a few of the debates! He does make sense on some issues.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Quick - show them his web site before they drink the kool-aid! nt
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. I told them to look at Kucinich :) Republicans relatives that
voted Democratic hoping for accountability and an end to the Iraq occupation are still waiting, they think Bush and Cheney should be impeached. Bottom line there are many on both sides not happy with the top candidates in either party.
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