Sibel Edmonds - "Kill the Messenger" - Part 1/6

Run time: 10:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99lH4B3slGM   Posted on YouTube: January 24, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 24, 2008 By DU Member: Mr_Jefferson_24 Views on DU: 3643

 
2/6: http://youtube.com/watch?v=D4Tb_py9CzI

3/6: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pB64UVyp-x0

4/6: http://youtube.com/watch?v=fCigSefXYjg

5/6: http://youtube.com/watch?v=iP2S-IileTA

6/6: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRRvRKjRIzo

2001


Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

Please stop hijacking the importance of what Sibel has to say with such cheap CT bullshit.

YOU KNOW SIBEL EDMONDS VIDEO KILL THE MESSENGER

THE ONE WE ARE DISCUSSING!



Grossman met with 9/11 financier Mahmoud Ahmed on 9/10/01

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x191984

Perhaps this is the reason the American media won't touch her story? Because most of her supporters are so steeped in 9/11 CT that the reporters can't see her truth through all the junk?

You should think about this.

Grossman meeting with Abbas has a lot to do with Sibel's story, I agree, but precious little to do with 9/11.

You can only imagine such a connection by subscribing to yet another 9/11 CT bullshit line. The story that Abbas had money sent to Atta ($100,000) is nonsensical on its face and comes from a single questionable source (The Times of India, hardly impartial when it comes to smearing Pakistani figures of power). Why would Abbas send money to Atta at a time when Atta was busy wiring back the funds he already had and didn't need to the people who had provided it to him? A little last-minute money laundering before the Big Wedding? How exactly does sending your money to someone who's about to be world famous as a terrorist "launder" it? It's stupid. This is the only link to 9/11 given for Abbas, and it's mind-chokingly stupid.

With that single crappy thread, you tie Grossman to 9/11. Dear God, aren't the things Sibel alleges about the man enough for you? Sibel sounds like she has proof of the things she has to say, and you, one of her chief supporters here, seem determined to wash her away in a tide of 9/11 CT bullshit. Sounds to me like Sibel DOES need to call you off.

about what I am posting.

If so, you will be so good as to explain what Grossman meeting with Abbas has to do with 9/11. I can't see any other possible connection than that flimsy story from India. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Put your own words there or stop complaining when necessary inferences are drawn.

It's your means of distraction, isn't it?

I hit the nail on the head, didn't I? You were connecting Grossman to Abbas because of the Abbas wire transfer story.

http://www.dissentradio.com/radio/08_01_24_giraldi.mp3
Phil Giraldi chats about Sibel Edmonds
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2765950

What do you mean? I know exactly what you meant, and you pretend that I've "put words into your mouth."

Instead of your Googlebombing, why don't you Just. Answer. The. Question.

The video in the OP begins with the statement "It all started one morning in September, 2001".

Seemslikeadream responded by quoting that line.

You then charge seemslikeadream with "hijacking the thread".

That makes no sense, sorry. He quoted a line from the video that was posted. That is not hijacking the thread, and no amount of spin or backpedaling is going to change that.

If anyone can be charged with "hijacking the thread" - that person, clearly, is you.

They spend lots of time going to various forums, watching for key threads that are are an attempt to open up the supressed intelligence behind our September 11, 2001. Then they open up to a specific page in their information supression manuals while taking a dump on intelligent Q&A, which is what a lot of DU threads would otherwise contain (many complain it used to contain more often)

Why believe a DUer like me? ... Let's just ask one of THEM! -


"Hey, I'm just a TROLL! I'm NOT responsible for ANYTHING I say! "



Indeed.

Sibel Edmonds case: The real culprits of 911

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x173660

The only thing there connecting Sibel to an actual 9/11 connection is her letter about prewarnings before 9/11 from another translator. It would appear that she means Behrooz Sarshar though she does not name him, and she reports an "enhanced" version of his story. Accounts of this story widely vary, but the actual details don't seem to be as specific as Sibel reports in that letter. I offer no explanation for this, and I welcome her comments on the matter.

Sibel's story only concerns 9/11 tangentially. The 9/11 attacks threatened to expose the operation that Sibel found out about, and steps were taken to hush those connection up. There remains no evidence that anyone in the CIA working with anyone in the ISI knew of the ISI ties to al-Qaeda, and certainly there is no evidence of pre-knowledge of operational details of the 9/11 attacks. Sibel found out about the operation and its coverup in the wake of 9/11 (much like the CIA and others trying to hide their plots to assassinate Castro in the wake of the JFK assassination). This cover-up is fully explained with the simple facts given and suggested by Sibel's current statements, and they DO NOT implicate anyone in the government in a MIHOP or LIHOP fashion. The 9/11 attacks flipped a huge rock over, and many crawly critters went scuttling for the dark again. Sibel heard some of this activity and was even invited to help craft a new darkness for them. She has valiantly refused to do so, and wedding her story to 9/11 CT is a betrayal of what she is trying to do.

I will state that the possibility for this pre-knowledge is there, though I find it a remote one. Allowing Sibel's story to progress based on the facts it actually exposes will be pulling a thread that could expose actual pre-knowledge, or (in my opinion) very probably will not. Either way, the allegations that can be asserted by her evidence have their own, self-sufficient enormity. Let her story progress without these mindless distractions into the patented factual inaccuracies of 9/11 "Truth".

I'VE KNOW FOR A VERY LONG TIME. HAVE YOU EVER VISITED HERE?


Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

It marginalizes her more effectively than anything Bush's administration could do to her.

quoting the opening statement to the video sure is marginalizing :eyes:

If and when she tells me I am to stop posting something about her story I will listen to her, I will not listen to you, so I'll thank YOU to quit giving me advice.

I'd be very disappointed to find out she gives this easily disproven CT any credence.

It doesn't make the "put option" CT any more true.

or what... Jesus!

Particularly when it's being attached to the reality behind Sibel's story.

as you'd wish upon others. Make sense yet?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

I guess I'll keep talking, thank you.

what to do. That single web page is less than credible nor substantive... with NOTHING TO BACK IT UP! My God....

If You Can't Refute the poster above with anything of real substance, shut up yourself and leave that poster and others alone.

That "single web page" is Snopes, which has become something of an authority online. It uses the research of the 9/11 Commission Report to back up its debunking of the rumor, which is not "NOTHING" as you so factually inaccurately put it.

The 9/11 CT bullshit line is exposed as such. Please stop attacking me.

Why are you posting such ambiguously phrased statements?

It was his thread

You don't know that easily obtained fact about Sibel?

It's all connected bolo, you just can't deny that


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2745145

After five years of thwarted legal challenges and fruitless attempts to launch a congressional investigation, Sibel Edmonds is telling her story, though her defiance could land her in jail. After reading its November piece about Louai al-Sakka, an al-Qaeda terrorist who trained 9/11 hijackers in Turkey, Edmonds approached the Sunday Times of London. On Jan. 6, the Times, a Murdoch-owned paper that does not normally encourage exposés damaging to the Bush administration, featured a long article. The news quickly spread around the world, with follow-ups appearing in Israel, Europe, India, Pakistan, Turkey, and Japan—but not in the United States.

Edmonds is an ethnic Azerbaijani, born in Iran. She lived there and in Turkey until 1988, when she emigrated to the United States, where she received degrees in criminal justice and psychology from George Washington University. Nine days after 9/11, Edmonds took a job at the FBI as a Turkish and Farsi translator. She worked in the 400-person translations section of the Washington office, reviewing a backlog of material dating back to 1997 and participating in operations directed against several Turkish front groups, most notably the American Turkish Council.

Or Cheney. Whoever. You can't do it. No one can do it.

Sibel grabbed onto this story (I believe) because it is an example of the kind of things that were allowed to fester while her described operation was underway. This is what I mean by "tangentially". While American, Turkish, and Israeli (ATI) officials may have been conspiring to sell state nuclear secrets to Pakistan (the gist of what Sibel is claiming), parts of the Pakistani arm were also engaging in support functions for al-Qaeda. The 9/11 attacks may indeed have been planned with the recognition that mid-level and senior-level al-Qaeda members would ultimately be protected because of this operation, but that doesn't imply that the ATI operations planned the 9/11 attacks. On the contrary, the 9/11 attacks threatened to expose the ATI operation, and al-Qaeda played a deft game of hiding behind a coverup they knew had to happen.

This is what Sibel is alleging, according to everything I have read. 9/11 is a part of the story, but it is tangential as far as the main thrust of her allegations, and a diversion into 9/11 CT woo like put options and Abbas wire transfers is handicapping the ability of the story to take off. If such things become exposed later (with actual evidence) as the actual story gets legs, then more power to it. But right now, free Sibel's story from easily debunkable CT reasoning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2761324&mesg_id=2761324

White House in panic over Sibel Edmonds?
Posted by lukery on Thu Jan-24-08 09:22 PM

Sixteen days after the UK Times' published a blockbuster article, For sale: West’s deadly nuclear secrets, about how certain top US government officials were enabling Turkish and Israeli interests in supplying the nuclear black market, President Bush quietly announced on Tuesday that he wants Congress to approve sales of nuclear technology to Turkey.

Is this a reaction to the Times article? It sure looks like it. I wouldn't be surprised if we soon start hearing about retroactive immunity for the guilty parties, just as we are seeing in the illegal spying case currently in the Senate.

As always happens in this case, the silence in the US media is deafening.

Two years ago, Bush's efforts to sell nuclear technology prompted much “ indignation and furor," but not a single major US media outlet has yet reported the proposed deal with Turkey. Agence France-Presse put out a report on its wires which has been picked up around the world, but that's about it.

The White House press release says that Bill Clinton agreed to the deal in 2000:

However, immediately after signature, U.S. agencies received information that called into question the conclusions that had been drawn in the required NPAS (Nuclear Proliferation Assessment Statement) and the original classified annex, specifically, information implicating Turkish private entities in certain activities directly relating to nuclear proliferation. Consequently, the Agreement was not submitted to the Congress and the executive branch undertook a review of the NPAS evaluation.


It would certainly be interesting to know which "Turkish private entitities" Bush is referring to here. If he had said "Turkish private companies" instead, we could be comfortable in presuming that he was referring to the two named Turkish companies involved in A.Q. Khan's network, EKA and ETI Elektroteknik The phrase "entities" on the other hand is broader, and could very well include the American Turkish Council, the 'entity' named in the Times article as well as other articles about Sibel Edmonds case.

The timing here is also interesting; "immediately after" Clinton approved the deal in July 2000, US agencies became aware of this Turkish involvement in the AQ Khan network. This was fully three years before the Khan network was officially exposed.

The White House press release continues with some curiously descriptive narrative:

"My Administration has completed the NPAS review as well as an evaluation of actions taken by the Turkish government to address the proliferation activities of certain Turkish entities (once officials of the U.S. Government brought them to the Turkish government's attention)."


Given that the entire press release is basically written in 'legalese', this unnecessary parenthetical aside stands out like a sore thumb. I wonder who injected this statement into the announcement, and why. It sure looks like butt-covering to me, given the latest revelations in the Times.

The phrase 'once officials...' also appears to be a curious formulation. I'm not overly familiar with presidential statements and US government protocols, but I would imagine that "Agencies" or "Departments" would normally communicate with foreign governments on such important matters, and I would imagine that presidential statements would normally refer to such agencies, rather than 'officials.' Perhaps I'm wrong, and perhaps this is common practice, but it sure looks like an attempt to exonerate certain individuals such as Marc Grossman who was accused of some very serious crimes in the Times article.

Who were these officials? How, when, and in what format, did they bring this information to the Turkish government? I'd like to see the official communication, please.

And what, exactly, has the Turkish government done to 'address these proliferation activities'? We know that ETA and EKI continue to operate, and as far as I know haven't been penalized. The press release says that this information is all classified.

Summary
It appears as though certain administration officials have been illegally supplying the Turkish nuclear program for years, and now that they've been publicly outed, the Bush administration will simply make the entire program legal, just as they are trying to do with the illegal spying.

Congress has 90 days to amend or block this legislation, otherwise it automatically becomes law.

We need public open hearings to determine which officials have been supplying the nuclear black market before this becomes law.

Should I take that as an admission that you cannot draw a direct line of working knowledge between Bush-Cheney and al-Sakka?

you would know that is an exact quote from the film.

It STILL has nothing to do with Sibel's story. The put options were investigated and found to be innocent. Period.

I think it's really tacky of the 9/11 CT movement to use Sibel as a human shield. Her story deserves to be told for what it is, and not for how it can further your agenda.

if she's around and catches this, maybe she can answer as to just how much.

The video says just what I've been saying.

The main event is the ATI Group doing everything from nuke secrets to drugs. 9/11 was a sideshow.

Don't you understand? 9/11 threatened to EXPOSE this arrangement. That's why Al Qaeda (mid and senior levels) knew they could get away with the attacks. The ATI Group would make sure they were kept out of interrogation rooms because they could spill the beans on the ATI Group.

That is why the ATI Group DIDN'T do the 9/11 attacks OR have them carried out. The one thing they wanted was business as usual.

She's a great lady and patriot.

Thanks for posting all of this.



:thumbsup:

What's the significance of this date which flashes on the screen near the beginning?

One airline was due to a common risk management technique in which shares of the airline were also purchased.

The other was due to a tip in an online trading magazine and was shorted by dozens of non-connected people.

Please stop drowning Sibel's story with 9/11 CT bullshit.

YOU KNOW SIBEL EDMONDS VIDEO KILL THE MESSENGER

THE ONE WE ARE DISCUSSING, I ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED

9/11 CT bullshit is hurting Sibel's chances of being heard. Why are you contributing to her marginization? You obviously want her message to be heard. Why are you handicapping it needlessly?

You are showing your ignorance bolo, it's really refreshing that you would want to exposed yourself like that

Your own video recommendations have varied from the useless to the wildly fascinating. I've been wanting to see this one, though, and am sad to see it tying into 9/11 CT. I figure that it will be mostly good, however.

Unbelieveable

that may be raised in that video but require no viewing of that video to be informed about.

:boring:

and obviously haven't been paying much attention nor to great detail of Sibel's case. If you had, you wouldn't be screaming like chicken-little in regards to 911 and a connection. Here is what the Times of London quoted from Sibel:



Obviously, there's a reason why Sibel testified to the 911 Commission, in secret, for 3 hours. If Grossman aided in the release of suspects being interrogated for their possible involvement in 911 because they might "spill the beans," then I'd say there's a huge connection. You denying it doesn't change that fact for the rest of us who have been paying attention.

and then proceeds to chastise me and make up willy-nilly shit about what I believe and what is in the film. :shrug:

Tacky, tacky.

I think people can read, and I think they can see exactly where I stand on the issue. They can see that what I said is what you ended up quoting.

No wonder you couldn't understand why I posted what I did, you didn't know it was in the video because

YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE TIME TO WATCH IT!

The only thing I learned was the exact contents of the video.

inaccurate.

Sounds like a meeting between Rice and Tenet that has differing accounts and secreted documentation to me.

Documentation which I've already signed a petition to get released.

:shrug:

I would be VERY disappointed to find out Sibel actually subscribes to this easily disproven piece of 9/11 CT crap.

:kick:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a090601putsshorts&scale=0#a090601putsshorts

Suspicious trading occurs on the stock of American and United, the two airlines hijacked in the 9/11 attacks. “Between 6 and 7 September, the Chicago Board Options Exchange purchases of 4,744 put option contracts in UAL versus 396 call options—where a speculator bets on a price rising. Holders of the put options would a profit of $5 million once the carrier’s share price after September 11. On September 10, 4,516 put options in American Airlines, the other airline involved in the hijackings, purchased in Chicago. This compares with a mere 748 call options in American purchased that day. Investigators cannot help but notice that no other airlines such trading in their put options.” One analyst later says, “I saw put-call numbers higher than I’ve ever seen in ten years of following the markets, particularly the options markets.” “To the embarrassment of investigators, it has also that the firm used to buy many of the ‘put’ options… on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by ‘Buzzy’ Krongard, now executive director of the CIA.” Krongard was chairman of Alex Brown Inc., which was bought by Deutsche Bank. “His last post before resigning to take his senior role in the CIA was to head Bankers Trust—Alex Brown’s private client business, dealing with the accounts and investments of wealthy customers around the world.”




911 FBI Insider Trader tried to contact Witness
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x146351



Buzzy and Cookie on the road to 9/11,Blackwater and the State Dept IG



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=183603&mesg_id=183603

It's time for you to make a little concession to this fact.

And thanks for putting all of the links in one place. I don't understand why everyone doesn't do this for videos broken down into several parts. It's so much easier to follow and prevents other videos from being knocked off of the front page of PV.

This documentary is very well done. Be sure to go to the YouTube link and rate it 5 stars. Let's get this puppy on the front page of YouTube.

Share 'em and spread 'em!

http://wecanchangetheworld.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/kill-the-messenger-now-on-youtube/

I'll make a separate thread for it, but thought I'd give it a heads up here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cn5oOxMJ73k

share it with AddThis