Immigration

Why do some folks have such a big problem with immigrants? Most of them do the grimmy work most natives don't want to do... I have a feeling if the immigrants were coming from Canada, England, and Australia , and not Mexico, Haiti, and Jamaica they would be a lot more welcome...

People don't have a problem with immigrants, it's "illegal" aliens that are the concern (not those that have paid their dues to become a legal US citizen) Not sure why some want to make this a race issue, but in mind it is not... This country has legal borders that are manned by border patrol agents paid for by tax payers to keep people out that are not supposed to be here, but many think they can just cross without going thru the legal process... Thus the word "Illegal"

ww

because it represents an "excess supply" of low-skilled labor that competes with American blue collar workers in agriculture, construction, hotel services, etc. While they usually couch this opposition as being to illegal immigration, their arguments reflect their true sentiment about immigration in general.

It is a rare post which opposes illegal immigration, that goes on to propose a massive increase in legal immigration so that the same number of immigrants can enter the country legally.

sucking effect of the illegal aliens that has a serious effect on me.... They work for cheap to hide the fact that they are in the Country illegally and they draw on various assets of the legitimate tax payer monies for benefits... This is not cool in my opinion... Middle class workers have a hard enough time making ends meat now, without this added problem...

ww

one-way ticket to America to everyone who is collecting unemployment insurance or other social assistance payments. However, would those who accepted the offer be welcome in America?

who come here on a visitors visa and stay, getting jobs and becoming illegal immigrants themselves, yet no one is really buzzed about them.

England and Australia, and work here illegally, but...er...they are white and speak English, so no one mentions them.

If they arrived in greater numbers, would they be mentioned?

I knew people who worked in Japanese and Sushi restaurants who hired girls off the boat. I think the Sushi chefs could get work permits because it's a specialized trade that Americans usually aren't trained for but the waitresses were illegals. I think the same goes for a lot of the Chinese and Korean immigrants. It cuts across the board but I guess Mexicans are the ones we don't like.

As a person who works for the immigration court, you're dead wrong about that. They may not get as much attention, but if they're here illegally, they get just as deported when they get caught. There are immigration courts in Buffalo, NY, Batavia, NY, Chicago, Idaho...and they deal with a LOT of illegal cases involving white people.

The fact is that most people who illegally immigrate to the US do so from Central or South America. However, the court system does not treat them differently than it does "brown" illegal immigrants.

They don't get caught because they speak English and blend in better including the Scandanavians. Most of them are passing through and don't stay in the states more than a few years unless they marry an American. No one reports them to the INS. I know some Europeans who have been here for over thirty years, entering through the Canadian border, worked, raised families and never got a Green Card. If they are caught I doubt if they would be deported since they have American children and grandchildren. I don't think the kids even know that mom and dad are illegals. It's easy enough to get a legitimate SS # without a work permit if you open bank accounts. Don't tell me I'm wrong about what I know. I used to be a bartender in an Irish bar for eight years.

"I know some Europeans who have been here for over thirty years, entering through the Canadian border, worked, raised families and never got a Green Card."

were better off staying put because they might not get the amnesty. I went through the amnesty with a friend of mine and it wasn't like you walked into the INS and got a rubber stamp. It took long waits sometimes for days in lines and then months and for some years of being in limbo while the application was processed. Then some didn't get amnesty because something came up in the background check like a drug arrest or something like that that made things even more difficult. So some who had blended in really well and were established with good jobs and their own homes, raising families didn't bother.

I used to work for a general contractor, and many of the drywallers, roofers, painters, etc. in the area were illegal immigrants. They do very good work and they do it under the table, CHEAP. They aren't able to get insurance because their businesses don't exist on paper. Not having insurance makes them even cheaper. It is difficult for other building subcontractors - many of them union shops - to compete. It is not true that immigrants only do jobs people here legally don't want to do. Construction jobs used to be high paying union jobs.

I think there are indeed people who are opposed to immigration simply because of where the immigrants come from. But there are also people who are concerned about working wages continuing to spiral downward.

working wages? I don't believe that problem will be resolved until unions gain strength and the governments (state and federal) start undoing some of the de-regulation of corporations. So, if those 'illegals' who desire to become citizens were allowed to stay, then we would have more workers fighting for unions. No?

which is why I don't get into these debates. I could see things going a number of different ways.

It's hard, back-breaking, and often dangerous work. The contractors around here just love to hire illegals for cheap so they can afford their big-ass trophy homes. To hell with the American worker who wants to earn a decent wage for hard labor. I've really had it with these pricks, and I for one won't hire them as subs on any of my jobs.

or illegal aliens? They are nothing the same, and as I said I don't believe that most Americans have a problem with immigrants at all, no matter where they are from. One thing I have to say though is that illegal aliens are certainly hurting legal immigrants in many American eyes and a resentment is there with respect to this (At least in my view)

ww

Maybe if our forefathers hadn't massacred so many of them, the indigenous people themselves could have built a wall to keep US out. They had more to worry about from us then we did from them, in the end it would seem.

I like to read the discourse on these forums when bashing my groin with a meat-tenderizing mallet ceases to be painful enough to sate my masochistic urges...can be such elitist tripe sometimes.

"One thing I have to say though is that illegal aliens are certainly hurting legal immigrants in many American eyes and a resentment is there with respect to this (At least in my view)"

I think some over-privileged and entitled Americans are hurting America in the world's eyes. What point are you trying to make with that statement? Sounds like a half-hearted attempt at providing justification for making broad brush generalizations about anyone who looks or sounds like they might be a foreigner.

Could anyone but an over-priviledged elitist in the world's richest country with the world's most powerful military be so terrified of some poor folks with nothing? This whole "immigrant-scare" seems like some crazy-ass paranoid delusions of persecution from elitist pricks.

Makes me think of that Family Guy quote "Look Lois, the two symbols of the republican party, an elephant and a fat white guy who is afraid of change."

-personman

Edit: As far as the arguments about them stealing jobs and benefits(money basically), it really just shows how whipped by the upper classes people are, that the idea of the people who produce the wealth of this nation, rising up to ask to keep some more of it, isn't even on the radar.

These are my observations. I know some people are rascist and are motivated by that.

The only place where our population is growing is among immigrant groups. Regardless of what corporate slave-drivers and the army want, excess population is bad for the country. The western half of the 48 is pretty arrid and the southern half of that is a desert. The only way to continueto enjoy a good standard of living is to keep the population under control. Otherwise, the increasing pressure on resources and the environment will not be sustainable. As it is, many cities pipe in water from hundreds of miles away. There is simply no more room for growth.

The reason this country is so properous is because we think of resources as disposable. We use up cheap land, cheap energy and cheap labor to get what we want. The corporate owners can get their obscene windfalls while having enough left over to keep the middle class happy. This depends on turning more and more greenspace into "development" and extracting more and more resources. It is a lot cheaper to develope farmland than it is to rehabilitate city brown-space. It is easier to import cheap unskilled labor than to pay americans a living wage. It is cheaper to import skilled and professional labor from India than it is to educate our own people. It is easier to have workers with no rights who operate without safety or environmental laws make stuff than have it made here. This way of doing things is just not sustainable.

There is also a backlash by Anglo-Americans against illegal Latin aliens. (Latin? How much of Latin-American culture is based on indigenous practices rather than Roman?) They don't like the fact that Latin people, mostly from Mexico, are sneaking in and are apparently being rewarded for it. What augments the irritation is that people from every other place have to follow the rules to get it. (I know about employers violating the rules. I am just trying to answer the question asked.) Anglo-Americans also feel a little threatened by what they see as an intrusion into their culture. They see Latins coming here and insisting that Anglos make room for Latin culture rather than becoming absorbed into the Anglo culture as previous groups have done. (NB: I am aware that Am. Indians predate Anglos and that Spanish-speakers do as well in much of the USA.)

Simply saying that it is ethnic prejudice is a gross over simplification.

be drawn somewhere. What incentive is there for people to stay and make changes for the better in their own countries (remember this country wasn't always a haven - people fought and died for the rights and prosperity we have now) when they can just pick up and come here. Sooner or later, we are all going to suffer for it.

Resources are finite, jobs are finite, and the tolerance of those who find their wages continually declining is finite. I think some people are so afraid of being tagged "racist" they fail to see the practical side of the matter.

Fear of change, fear of anything "different." Cultural differences, physical differences, language differences. Fear of evolution. Fear of becoming a "minority."

"Most of them do the grimmy work most natives don't want to do ..."

Because we are so 'superior'?

Because, of course, who would want to stay in the land of their birth when they can come here and pick your lettuce, butcher your meat and clean your bathrooms?

Certainly we wouldn't want to encourage them to stay and fight to overthrow the corrupt regimes in their homelands, would we?

Better to entice them with low wages and the alluring "American lifestyle".

The fact is that most illegal immigrants do come from Mexico because of NAFTA and the desire of Bush and the mega-transnational corporations to turn the U.S. into a low-wage nation. Besides, when the economically discontented cross the border and come up here, it reduces the poverty problems for Calderon and the ruling oligarchs in Mexico City. Everybody is a winner except the exploited workers -- American and Mexican.

But mostly I'm really getting tired of this near-bigoted notion that we should be happy that these unfortunate souls can do our "grimmy" work ... so amnesty and a guest worker program are compassionate 'solutions' ... yeah, right.

I think illegal immigration needs to be stopped, preferably by punishing the employers. If they can't work they won't risk coming in illegally.