Noise complaints about their kids could land LI couple in jail

I don't know the exact situation here (how loud/shrill/incessant the girls are), but having lived next door to a pool and a few screaming kids, I can tell you that it does get pretty annoying after awhile. Listening to leaf blowers construction vehicles and boom-boxes is more relaxing.


"Noise complaints about their kids could land LI couple in jail

By Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer | June 20, 2007

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. --It's what kids do: Squeal in delight when they're having fun.

But to some Long Island residents, those squeals are unwelcome noise and they want two neighborhood girls to pipe down when they're playing in their backyard pool.

The girls' parents, William and Rachel Poczatek, were hit with a notice of violation after neighbors in their bayfront village of Bayville complained that Ashley, 11, and Chloe, 5, played too loudly.

"I just can't believe it," William Poczatek said in a telephone interview Wednesday, hours before a scheduled appearance in village court to answer the charges. "What, are you telling me that a kid can't make noise? It's not fair."

The Poczateks were charged under a village ordinance for violating a noise code usually reserved for "the shouting and crying of peddlers, hawkers and vendors which disturbs the peace and quiet of the neighborhood," their attorney said. They could face a fine of $250 or 15 days in jail...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/06/20/noise_complaints_about_their_kids_could_land_li_couple_in_jail">Link to article

and it was one of the kids' girlfriends. They were in that pool until the wee hours every night and she had a screech that would split diamonds.

The land was still zoned for agriculture, so one day while the parents were by the pool I started driving stakes and setting strings on the part of my lot next to the pool. They asked me what I was building and I replied, "This is where we're putting the pigs."

They became much more responsive to complaints after that.

Brilliant move on your part! :)

Some have very piercing voices and the parents really don't seem to care much if they scream at the top of their lungs whenever they feel like it.

But, to my surprise, a polite request to the RW father that I barely speak to, ended the problem. That was 3 years ago, and only a few brief lapses have occurred since. Unlike some previous neighbors who were impervious to complaints from all the neighbors. We finally moved to a rural area to escape the din of, not only them, but just the incessant racket of city/suburb living.

Now, overly talkative crows and coyotes in chorus are our noisemakers and easily ignored and/or appreciated.

Sonofabitch sub-woofer is so loud it shakes the walls of my house when he drives by.

The real irony of that kind of thing is that women aren't much impressed by it.

Becasue I don't know females who are impressed by it either.

only one guy? you need to come to some of the local neighborhood around here!...

i still remember my high school days when we all looked up to those guys hanging out in the parking lot or a cruise-in, with a system so loud, they had to use a remote control (and a little safe distance) to turn it all the way up...doesn't seem that long ago, and now i'm the one covering his ears and cursing the teenaged punks

i have gotten old:cry:

but i have turned into my fatherB-) :party:

a year. Finally I opened a can of crazy on him in front of his girlfriend. He's been quiet since then.

incessant noise can literally make a person go nuts.

and also loudspeakers for concerts.

I waited until his mother was visiting.

going on. I think she was the one that finally put her foot down. This guy is old enough to be out on his own, but he is living with his mother. He must have a bit of freeper in him.

if these kids are playing during the day, they have every right to make as much noise as they want.

most towns have noise ordinances. One doesn't have the right to "make as much noise" as one wants. Reasonable limits are... well... reasonable.

kids and come here and say that...

I can some with a fair amount of certainty that you are not a parent...

my post?

Do you disagree that most towns have noise ordinances? Do you disagree that noise ordinances are largely reasonable both in theory and practice?

At least, that is how it has been every place I have lived.

there are stricter restrictions at night, but that doesn't mean I can sit in my back yard and set off an air horn all day long.

You can check the noise ordinances of dozens of cities here:

http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/cities.htm


All the ones I checked prohibit unnecessarilly loud noise during the day.

Most people wouldn't call two girls playing in a pool "unnecessarily loud noise". That's just sad. Most places have noise ordinances but I can't imagine living someplace THAT strict.

...I guess children are to be seen and not heard...in a really fascist and repressive and uptight world.

Lee

it's pretty objective to measure a decibel level.

I'm not saying it's a proper use of the ordinance - I was disputing the idea that people are free to make as much noise as they want.

But the people who live next door have a right to enjoy their property, too. If your children make so much noise that the neighbors complain AND is in violation of the law, it's not unreasonable to ask the kids to keep it down.

What if the noise situation was like this?...

Turn up your speakers and play it over and over a few times through-out the day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEi7FINa2DY&mode=related&search=

Repeat daily for a few weeks and tell me if it would be a "fascist and repressive and uptight world" if someone filed a complaint about the racket.

During the Day or on Friday and Saturday nights? Cool. I'm an ol' hippie. I live in a liberal college town...Austin. I get...playfully...upset at the kids across the street who are in their middle twenties. They throw parties sometimes and you can't hear a thing. I tell them...wow...back in the day, the late sixties, the seventies...I'm 53..WE knew how to throw parties. They could dance to it in the next town.

The middle-aged lesbian couple and the other young couple near us...THEY know how to throw parties.

I love quiet but there is also a time for noise.

We're talking about little kids PLAYING in a swimming pool during the day. I guess they should be sitting in their house, little hands folded in lap...whispering because children should be seen and not heard. :puke: I think not. ...and it's summer time... Jeez, this place is a scary place after all. Some of you guys need to take a nerve pill. :rofl:
Lee

between shrieking at the top of your lungs and sitting in the house, quietly, with hands folded?

We had four kids in my family, and an above-ground pool. Believe you me, my mother would make us keep it down long before a neighbor would've complained.

We made plenty of noise - but the maximum amount of noise possible? No - that wouldn't have been allowed.

around at the top of our lungs.

I find really interesting about this case is that there are multiple complainants from the neighborhood. It's not just one crabby person.

they MUST be either seen and not heard, or be allowed to shriek at the top of their lungs whenever and wherever they want!!!! There is nothing in the middle, no other solutions!

;-)

I guess with an 8-year-old and a newborn, my ears (and subconscious) doesn't even register those noises as loud.

It's all in what you're used to.

at restaurants or in other public settings. Of course I don't WANT to hear a baby cry - but it doesn't set my nerves on end the way it does for a lot of people.

On the other hand, kids shrieking as loud as possible will get to me.

I'm not a loud person and they take after me, thankfully. My husband's "singing" (and the quotes are to put it nicely) is louder than my kids. LOL!!

But, after hosting eight years of birthday parties and friends and now the whine of a newborn on hand, that shreiking just didn't seem to bother me like a big loud sub-woofer would. Now THOSE bother me.

I don't think I've hardly ever asked my older daughter to be quiet. (Stop being so evil, yes, but quiet no.)

My younger daughter is the more likely offender of any reasonable noise standard. But even she's not THAT bad, except in the car.

Here is the list from the page for Los Angeles.

********************************

Sec. 112.01 .......Radios, Television Sets, and Similar Devices.
Sec. 112.02 .......Air Conditioning, Refrigeration, Heating, Pumping, Filtering Equipment.
Sec. 112.03 .......Construction Noise.
Sec. 112.04 .......Powered Equipment Intended for Repetitive Use in Residential Areas and Other Machinery, Equipment and Devices.
Sec. 112.05 .......Maximum Noise Level of Powered Equipment or Powered Hand Tools.
Sec. 112.06 .......Places of Public Entertainment.


ARTICLE 3
SPECIAL NOISE SOURCES

Sec. 113.01 .......Rubbish and Garbage Collection and Disposal.


ARTICLE 4
VEHICLES

Sec. 114.01 .......Vehicle Repairs.
Sec. 114.02 .......Motor Driven Vehicles.
Sec. 114.03 .......Vehicles - Loading and Unloading.
Sec. 114.04 .......Audible Signaling Devices.
Sec. 114.05 .......Audible Advertising Devices - Commercial Food Vendors.
Sec. 114.06 .......Vehicle Theft Alarm Systems.
Sec. 114.07 .......Audible Status Indicator.


*************

:shrug:

It's disappointing to me that so many people can't seem to grasp their own fallacious reasoning.

Concerning most noise ordinances is as is stated in the OP...

To dissuade hawking vendors and the like...not little kids playing and enjoying their innocence..

:shrug:

Doesn't really matter if it's kids playing in the pool, or some jackass busting up his driveway with a jackhammer.

You on that one...

throw the book at 'em then

if the parents had been responsible and told the kids to shut up.

They are kids. and they are playing. If the neighbors don't like it, maybe they shouldn't live in a neighborhood with other people.

If the parents can't parent responsibly, they shouldn't have kids.

God forbid a child should ever be asked to consider anyone but themselves.

I'll never understand this "cult of childhood" that persists in America - that anything a child does is A-OK and any attempts to ask a cihld to moderate their behavior is just soul-crushing fascism.

I have some neighbors who feel their kids should be allowed to do just about anything. The kids are total destructive delinquents. I finally had to call the cops after three years of telling them I was fed up with their crap. Once the cops came, peace and quiet ensued although we are now on non-speaking terms, which is fine with me.

Thank you! Very well put! :)

also destroys their widdle self esteem. That's why according to some reports, the current generation of college students are the most narcissistic. Everything centers around the almighty and all powerful KID.

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/02/27/study_college_students_more_narcissistic?mode=PF


Study: College students more narcissistic

By David Crary, AP National Writer | February 27, 2007

NEW YORK --Today's college students are more narcissistic and self-centered than their predecessors, according to a comprehensive new study by five psychologists who worry that the trend could be harmful to personal relationships and American society.

"We need to stop endlessly repeating 'You're special' and having children repeat that back," said the study's lead author, Professor Jean Twenge of San Diego State University. "Kids are self-centered enough already."

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

for the neighbors.

I don't think it robbed them of their joy or innocence, but it might have made us better neighbors.

Playing loudly is one thing; disturbing others is another story. My parents would get on our case when we were kids if they thought we were so loud we were disturbing others. They didn't wait until everyone was angry at them. Kids can have fun without shrieking. Plus they learn respect for others when they are told to tone it down.

bigger lot so the sound of their loudmouth kids would be stifled by distance. Of course, they can also tell their kids to quiet the hell down, which I doubt will destroy their little egos and traumatize them for life.

Why this bothers people is beyond me. I guess they'd rather sit in their houses and listen to bombs going off in foreign countries. Geesch.

I think there is nothing more pleasant than hearing a child laugh and scream in delight. Of course, there's nothing more annoying than listening to a child whine and nothing more heartbreaking than listening to a child cry.

I think a happy medium could be reached. The neighbors need to get off it some and the parents need to curb the shrieking a little. Why do we all have such thin skins anymore?

I guess our quality of life must be sacrificed, "for the children." And once again we hear on DU about how some are just a little more equal than others.

Disgusting

about.

My kids have rarely, while playing outdoors, needed to be told to keep it down. But when it was called for, that's exactly what I did.

;)
I'd agree though kids up late at night making noise are annoying. But in the day?

I had to threaten to mace a cop who was beating a person he had never talked to. The plain clothes cop just started beating him.

One of my friends was threatened with an arson charge based on falsified fingerprints taken from when he was registered for the missing children scare in the 80's. This was the local doctor's son. He is now 38 years old and a business owner and was arrested last year for riding a unicycle. Riding a unicycle is not illegal in his city and he was riding on his own property.

I had annother friend rammed by a police car when he was riding on his bicycle. He was a school teacher at the time.

I've had alcohol planted on me before i ever had my first illegal drink.(thank god for blood testing)

I've spent 3 nights in jail on the charge of driving without a front lisence plate even when I was from a state that didn't issue front plates.

I've had two lovers who have been threatened with jailtime for accusing the men who raped them.



I could go on and on...

Oh, and just in case you don't think i know how to behave around cops, ask my ma. She was a cop.



The fact is that there are a large amount of nearly 40 year old white males like myself who have never actually seen a police officer do something positive.

I once had a cop give me a ride when I was out of gas. Other than that every time I have called the cops no arrest has been made, no fingerprints taken, no serial numbers recorded, the names of witnesses weren't written down and the hit and run got away, no stolen goods were recovered, and in one case i was told that i couldn't get someone who had shot a child with a BB gun arrested for assault, when even discharging a airgun in the city limits is illegal.

This is in the 7 different states and at least 15 different counties i have lived in, just in case you're about to blame the bad eggs.

Here in Phoenix, it has to do with whether or not a certain noise can be heard from a certain distance...regardless of what time of day the noise is made. After 10:00pm, noise violations have other variables factored in. At any time, excessive noise can be a misdemeanor, with a sizable fine.

Jeez, weren't you people ever kids? Kids make noise. It's what they do when they are happy healthy kids having fun.
Lee

my neighbor runs a daycare, and I live around the corner from an elementary school.

I was disputing the assertion that people have a right to make as much noise as they want during the day. That is legally untrue.

for the poster above (posts 5 and 15) who said just that.

I'm 50 yrs old, only 3 less than you. When I was growing up in San Antonio in 60s and early 70s, we lived right next door to Lackland AFB. I mean about 300 yds away was the fence. But we were still well within SA city limits. Back then, we could shoot off fireworks anytime during the time of the year they were sold. I'm talking firecrackers, bottle rockets, roman candles, sparklers,... shit everything. We even had a next door neighbor that was a DI and would bring home artillery simulators to shoot off in the field across the street. No one said shit. No one called the cops.

These day someone might be taken to jail. See how thing have changed?

The point is this: When I was happy healthy kid, I liked to blow up shit for days on end. So these days, are you cool with all the neighbors shooting off fireworks for days at a time with out calling the cops? Even late at night?

Ummm...how is shooting off fireworks comparable to making noise while playing in a swimming pool?

Lee

"When I was happy healthy kid, I liked to blow up shit for days on end."

Some kids like to make noise in the pool. I liked to makes LOTS of noise shooting off fireworks.

As much noise as they want? No limits at all? As if daring to ask kids to keep it down a little and think about other people is such a terrible joy-of-youth-destroying burden upon them? Kids require being allowed to act with utter complete thoughtless abandon, and the very slightest encroachment upon that will destroy any chance at happiness?

If you never told kids not to steal, most kids would steal things and think nothing of it. I'll take it that you do see the wisdom of curbing that kind of "natural" behavior, and that you don't figure that you'd be ruining the fun and supposed innocence of youth by doing so. So why not some reasonable limits on noise, something perhaps a little bit lower than the maximum decibel output an unrestrained kid might happen to be able to achieve?

I don't have kids. That doesn't mean I'm completely unwilling to make some allowance for the fact that kids will indeed make some noise now and then, act up a bit, etc. I don't feel at all required, however, to be just as tolerant of kids as their own parents are, especially when those parents are overindulgent or so accustomed to the racket their kids make that they can obliviously tune it out.

Yup...kids romping around making noise and playing at a pool...they're going to turn into bank robbers. Dang. "Hey, you kids should never play with wild abandon. Make a staid kind of noise. Now. Or you will grow up unethical and have no limits...why the anarchy of it all." :rofl:

Lee

The parallel was that you don't always let kids do anything that's supposedly "natural".

The parallel was that part of growing up is learning some limits, and learning consideration of others.

Faced with logic and reason, feigned obtuseness is required when one doesn't wish to concede a point. All too common on DU.

I just hope none of these curmudgeons EVER have children.
Lee

Read it again.

He implied I really agree but am unwilling to concede. I, in NO way, agree. Not even a eensy bitsy teeny weeny bit.
Lee

number of neighbors in conensus on the complaint makes me wonder...

My brothers worked on the their cars in the driveway. I have no doubt whatsoever the neighbors were glad when we grew up and moved out.

I know that the law on the books says they can face it, but is anyone really considering this. They probably will receive a fine at worst.

Imagine the how loud the kids will scream if they find out that their parents did go in jail.

Lock 'em up.

:sarcasm:

I'm a big fan of quiet, and would rather see our justice system being used to enforce noise ordinances than weird religious ideas about drugs and sex.

Once I tried to call the cops on city workers who were jackhammering outside my window at seven a.m. on a Sunday. The dispatcher said they could break the law because they were the city. I told her that's not how the law works, and she hung up...

... when the screams become insdistinguishable from REAL agony or the sound of someone being raped or kidnapped or DROWNING, they pose a very real problem. There is that point when any reasonbly sane and caring human is almost automatically stressed to rush to another human's aid ... and, yes, a few kids CAN lack any moderation on their noise. They MUST be tutored ... because it's important that those cries aren't "Wolf!" ... not only for themselves but for others in the neighborhood. "It takes a village!"

The pitch above and beyond screams of agony. You know the one. They're proud of that one, because of the it pisses people off so much.

I've had to reassure neighbors that their kids WEREN'T bothering me because I regard the sounds as joyful and pleasant ... except for the ones that make me panic and want to go save a kid from drowning or call 911. When they pretend that such a scream is "fun" it's time for a talk.

Drowning is what's going on when you DON'T hear the kids playing in the pool.

Was that really so difficult? :eyes:

Well, then drown the other one.

Problem solved.

(I work at home and live across from an elementary school playground. Yup. They scream. That's life.)

"Marco" "Polo" "Marco" "Polo" "Marco" "Polo" "Marco" "Polo" "Marco" "Polo" hour after hour after hour.........punctuated with high shrilly screams.

I've had occasion to witness that and it's enough to drive a person over the edge.

my mom taped it up and we were back in business the next day...
singing a newly composed ode to her "Coco is loco! ".

but it's kind of understandable. ;-)

I'm an ol' hippie. I live in a liberal college town...Austin. I get...playfully...upset at the kids across the street who are in their middle twenties. They throw parties sometimes and you can't hear a thing. I tell them...wow...back in the day, the late sixties, the seventies...(I'm 53)..WE knew how to throw parties. They could dance to them in the next town.

The middle-aged lesbian couple and the other young couple near us...THEY know how to throw good parties.

I love quiet but there is also a time for noise.

We're talking about little kids PLAYING in a swimming pool during the day. I guess they should be sitting in their house, little hands folded in lap...whispering because children should be seen and not heard. :puke: I think not. ...and it's summer time... Jeez, this place is a scary place after all.

Some of you guys need to take a nerve pill. :rofl:
Lee

It's either the joyful noise of children having fun, or it's "I guess they should be sitting in their house, little hands folded in lap...whispering".

TOO loud can and does happen. Children sitting quietly with hands folded in their laps is not the only one of two binary alternatives. Can you possibly make a point based on reality instead of cartoonish oversimplification?

No, children playing in a pool shouldn't have restraints on their volume. It's absurd. Just because a child does something that bugs a curmudgeonly adult, doesn't mean the child doesn't have a right to do it. Summertime, pool, kids....noise. Deal. Or move into a gated community for old quiet people. I REALLY doubt the kids were in the pool 24/7.

Hey! Idea. Science...let's just start creating life, then sticking it in a Borg maturation chamber and popping out a fully formed adult in a few months. Why bother with that troublesome and often noisy thing called childhood at all?

Jeez.
Lee

There's just nothing in between for you, is there? Either children have NO restraints on their volume, or it's the "Borg maturation chamber". Nothing in between. And unless the kids were in the pool "24/7", then there just couldn't possibly be anything to complain about.

From the article (emphasis mine):


Suppose it were "only" 4/7, not 24/7, but that 4 hours was the only four hours you have to enjoy your self at home between work and sleep? What if that 4 hours is like what one other poster described:


Of course, the father of the noisy children exhibits the same insistence on binary choices you seem unable to break away from:

No, Mr. Poczatek, you simple-minded idiot. You're being told there are SOME limits on how much noise your precious darlings can make, not that they can't make ANY noise.

Whether the particular law being invoked really fits the case -- that's another matter. But after having neighbors complain many times (one person said complaints to the family and the village had been going on for THREE YEARS), that the parents have decided that no one and nothing else matters more than their kids being exactly as noisy as they please, and not one decibel less, it's selfish and inconsiderate and overly-indulgent in the extreme to have not tried to get the children to try to keep their noise down a bit. The parents should have tried to make peace with (and for) the neighbors before it came down to a matter of law enforcement.

You don't even want to seem to consider in the slightest that the complaining neighbors might actually have good reason to complain. That's just out of the question, apparently. It simply MUST BE that anyone complaining is an overly-sensitive old fart whose ass belongs in an "Adult Community", and the children COULDN'T POSSIBLY being doing something beyond the pale and over the top with the disturbance they're making.

You sound almost hysterical. It's funny. :rofl:
Lee

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You did call me an asshole. Don't worry; I won't alert on you. I find it hilarious. Grrrr....the Big Bad... :rofl:

Lee

So you think you "win" by using one of these: :rofl:

Of course you find it hilarious. You're not only self-centered, but like most simple minds, easily entertained.

Yup...bordering on hysteria...

Maybe it's nap time.
Lee

complaining? I think these kids must have been really loud and doing it a lot. Usually after a parent is asked something about their kids, they usually respond in a cooperative fashion. It looks like these neighbors were complaining a lot to the parents with no results. What would it have taken the parents to tell their kids to tone it down?

I'm sorry. The more you make an effort to point out how things might be seen differently, the more "hysterical" you are. You can only "win" by showing what an easy goin' sort you are, who laughs at the concerns of others who get "all worked up" about "nothing".

Seriously, I have neighbors with two boys who are juvenile delinquents. After three or so years of telling the parents I wanted the kids and large dog to stay off my property with no results, a complaint to the police and the police going over there for a little chat, I have very few problems with them. I wish I had gone to the cops a lot sooner when I look back on it now, but I kept thinking each time I said something to them, it would work. Rotten parents usually don't want to get the picture; the kids are obnoxious brats because of the parents.

Can you possibly make a point based on reality instead of cartoonish oversimplification?



Cher

Until you have walked a mile in any of our shoes, you cannot sit in judgment on us.

You don't know about our situations or our lives. I am especially sensitive to repetitive noise because I am bipolar. I am sensitive to noise at night when I am trying to sleep.

So by your logic, my insanely inconsiderate next-door neighboor has a perfect right to hang SEVEN SETS OF METAL WINDCHIMES within twenty feet of my house, namely my family room, where I spend 90% of my time when I am at home. (Because of insomnia, I usually bunk there, too.)

Because, you know, it's freedom of expression, man! Right? *eye roll* I was raised by two of the biggest hippies you ever met, and can tell you that neither of my parents ever espoused the philosophy that children should be permitted to run amok and cause havoc for the neighbors. Quite the contrary. We were schooled to consider others' feelings first, as a means of contributing to the greater peace and understanding on this planet. That means consideration for others, particularly adults.


:hippie:

I'm severely bipolar, PTSD and clinically depressed. I never even said it wouldn't bug me. It would. A LOT actually...but my rights as an adult are not more important than a child's rights. There should be times of the day...OUTSIDE where kids can make ALL the noise they want for at least a couple of hours a day...at least. I would put in ear plugs or turn on the tv. MY kind of hippies were taught...it REALLY does take a village and that includes letting kids be kids...at least sometimes. I've lived in communes and collectives where we shared child raising duties.

If it's summer, daytime, swimming pool....blech...I give up. Be as curmudgeonly as you like.
Lee

Now when they get to be teens and start to crank the bass on their "boom cars", now that is annoying as hell.

If one doesn't ever want to hear a child playing, one should move to an adult-only community. How much do you want to bet that if some of these complainers are parents themselves, they are parents of the aforementioned kids sitting inside on their ass all summer?

Is there NOTHING in between?

My kids play outside plenty - but I wouldn't let them scream as loud as they can just because they're playing outside.

Playing is not incompatible with consideration of others.

Despite numerous complaints frommany neighbors, these parents never thought of telling their children to keep the noise down; undoubtedly they thought they were entitled to do nothing and their children were entitled to make the nerighborhood unliveable for everyone else.

There's a big, big difference between the normal noise of children playing and noise so obnoxious that numerous neighbors made multiple complaints. This isn't one cranky neighbor who has a beef; it's irresponsible parents whose sense of entitlement just bit them in the ass.

I can handle noise personally but I would be mad too if the kids around my home were so loud that they woke up my napping baby, because it's really difficult to get her to sleep and I *need* that time.

Besides that, some people work nights and have to sleep during the day.

And lastly, I used to live by people who had a kid who screamed so loud when she played tag or whatever that it was ear piercing, and my heart would skip a beat and I would panic for a brief second before my brain realized nobody was screaming for help. This happened about 3 times a week, every week, all summer long. It was aggravating, and I couldn't believe her parents let her do that. I always thought that if something really happened to her and she screamed, nobody would even look out the window anymore because they were used to it.

As one who is sensitive to noise (about 15 per cent of the population is), I can tell you that there are plenty of parents who take that attitude: little Susie/Johnny has the right to scream as loud and as long as he wants. After all, he's a child. He has a right.

Of late, it seems the high-pitched, shrill, scream is the means of expression for children. Never mind the ear-piercing pain of those within earshot. Never mind its nerve-jangling effect. They're just children. They have a right.

These parents never grasp the opportunity to teach their child something about consideration for others. In addition, there are multiple ways to express oneself. Screaming isn't the be-all and end-all of joyful expression.

However, one would never know it to watch the idiot morning programs, like The Toady Show and Good Morning America. Now we know why screaming is held in such high esteem: adults travel all the way to these shows to scream. If I ever watch these shows, it's with my finger on the mute button.

But I would just like to say that you indulgent parents have won, at least with me, anyway. I have given up on expecting any civility in this society and thus I never--ever--am without my earplugs. I wear a pair around my neck even in my own home and when I'm out in public, I wear them all the time. It is amazing how sane it keeps me.

On occasion I will use noise-cancellation technology earphones with my iPod. Works just as well.

So you win. Go ahead, scream your effing head off along with your kid. I won't even know about it.

During the school year they are outside for the school bus at just after seven am and around two thirty pm when the bus lets them off.

During the summer they are outside just about all day whenever the weather permits.

As a parent and grandparent the sound of children having a good time is music to my ears.

I do have some totally crabby neighbors who complain and actually had a petition going to try to stop kids practicing sports there on sundays. :eyes:

Hello! The school was there when you moved in. If you didn't want to hear children maybe you should have moved somewhere else.


I did have one noisy bird outside my window this morning at 6 AM! It reminded me that this is the first day of summer. Let the fun begin!

I also used to live across from a school and I loved it too.
Lee

warning one morning. We called the cops and they told us it was legal even though my audiometer registered an audio level of 119 decibels.

This is almost louder than a concert by The Who.


The punchline is the the cops refused to do any thing even though i later found that the operator didn't have the proper permit because the antique jackhammer he was using had been banned a decade or two ago.

the case, I'd be mighty miffed. too.

There's one generic thing called "kids having fun", it's something kids must do, it produces one kind of sound, it's a lovely, joyous sound that only sour, crabby old people can object to, and if you can't put up with it, that's your problem and you should move or wear earplugs or "take a pill".

C'mon, get with the program! :eyes:

As a legal case, I'll admit it was a stretch trying to employ the "hawking and peddling" law for this. Perhaps the local government will now realize that passing a more generic noise ordinance is a good idea.

we would have been on a long-term timeout if we were to ever have acted that way, regardless of the age. It's just plain rude imo; those kids need a bit of adult supervision if they did in fact scream for hours.

According to vocal coaches, it is very unlikely that anyone can scream at the top of their lungs for even one hour unless they have proper vocal training.

So since we have caught the neighbor in an OBVIOUS lie. What else is she lying about?

It looks like the neighbors might have more issues than just the children with their neighbors-

from here - http://www.wnbc.com/news/13541219/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

Neighbors in this posh community on Long Island's north shore who complained about the noise did not speak with reporters after the court proceeding.

Earlier, neighbor Sheila Brown said the children's squeals were not your usual brand of merriment.

"I have five dogs," Brown said. "Five dogs don't make this much noise. This is not something that started yesterday. They have been asked politely, but this is an ongoing issue far beyond children just playing in the pool."

Campanelli countered that a 74-year-old next-door neighbor of the Poczateks had nothing ill to say about the racket.

"Not everybody is complaining," he said.

The laws bear me out on that.

Maybe the 74-year-old is hard of hearing, or figures that if the neighbors in question already terrorize the neighborhood with their inconsiderate over-the-top noise, he might be in for even more trouble if he says something. After all, he has the joy of living next door to these inconsiderate excuses for parents.

I work in the field of amplifiers for live performance and i can tell you that there are a lot of cities who can't be bothered to look at any other device than their watch when it comes to noise. In fact most police departments don't even own a simple $70 noise meter from radio shack.

It has been my experience that when ever i have called the police to complain about noise that is happening in the daytime the lazy cops do nothing. This happens even when I can offer incontrovertible proof that the sound levels incurred are actually enough to damage people's hearing. They even refused to press charges when myself and an audio expert from Brown University offer their testimony.

I focus on teaching him to moderate his volume now so that he'll be able to turn himself down when he's older.

Shrieking and screaming and hollering is fun. Sometimes it's inappropriate. Shrieking ALL the time is inappropriate.

These girls are learning two things: 1) they don't have to respect the needs of others, and 2) they don't have to compromise their wants in order to accomodate a community's needs.

These are not lessons I want my son learning.

It could be kids who are screaming and out of control, but I live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids and a lot of pools and I've never heard that kind of noise. Two sets of vocal chords can only make so much noise for so long before getting worn out. Unless they've had formal voice training which I kind of doubt in this case.

Or it could be two or three neighbors getting together to try to make a particular family move out of their "posh" neighborhood for some reason other than noise. At least one of the articles I saw called it posh. Anyway, that happens too.

I'd have to physically see the situation to judge for myself but I have a hard time believing two children can make that much noise.

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I'd tell them to shut the fuck up. You can have fun without making excessive noise; I do it all the time.

It's so sad. You've obviously had your spirit broken young, and will grow up to poison the world with your wretched, inflexible authoritarianism. ;)

Now, repeat after me: if it's daytime (not that there's any assurance in the published stories at all that all noise was made only during daytime hours -- but let's not confuse things with facts here), and children are HAVING FUN, it's simply NOT POSSIBLE for them to make TOO MUCH noise. Physically impossible. "Too much" simply cannot exist in the context of noise made by children in the daytime having fun. It's like a law of physics or something. There is no "too much", only joyful exuberance, and we can't possibly get enough of it!

Just keep repeating it until you believe it. If you're having trouble making this sink in, try acting like a smugly superior asshole towards other people who think it actually is possible for kids to be too noisy -- that seems to help. :evilgrin:

I know. I was just a really li'l kid myself not too many years back. I at least still remember that gawd-awful, entirely inappropriate noise children can make.

...as long as they don't mind me turning up my Norwegian black metal loud enough to drown 'em out. :evilgrin:

We have community pools in my neighborhood and even completely filled with kids, the noise is more than tolerable.

On Fridays, one of the pools has Friday Cheers with music, etc. I can hear every lyric being sang.

You would be hard pressed to convince me that these children are screaming at the top of the lungs for the entire day rather than squealing occasionally in delight at being in the pool.

It's also an extremely seasonal thing in LI. I say suck it up.