Illegal hiring is the cause of...

---

...illegal immigration.

Some thoughts:


I am opposed to this immigration bill, or any bill that makes legal those who have arrived here illegally.

I favor instead to establish a simple employment validation check system for employers, increased enforcement patrol at the employer level, and to come down with borderline Draconian measures against the employer.
A message needs to be sent that if you hire, then you do time.

This, in my opinion, will slow the problems we face at the border to a trickle.
The jobs will dry up for illegal help and the labor pool will sparred the flood it is now getting and reverse the downward trend of wages we are now, and have been experiencing at the labor level.

We learned under the amnesty bill that Reagan signed that when the illegal worker went from illegal to legal that they moved up into the better jobs and flooded the labor pool there thus driving down those wages. The same thing will happen.

Strong employer sanctions and continued border enforcement are my solutions. But the emphasis should come at the cause of the issue which is, I believe, at the employer level.

Illegal hiring creates illegal immigration.


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the borders are not secure.... Securing them will take a significant amount of cash, but in the long run would do the job.

ww

You'd better get to work on YOUR Border!

that have the problem though, since it's your country that is being over run with illegals and not mine.

ww

will feel the pain. Our worlds are closer than you think and our politicians are more inbred than you know.

is the US has to survive in order to be any kind of threat. (and with that I really mean the world has to survive, and I'm not all that clear with whats going on in it, that it will) We have many desirable resources that other countries would love to get there hands on for sure.

ww

Too much gas, timber and probably oil for them not to need it.

We'll never be able to make the borders secure enough. Given the economic disparities, the immigration will continue.

What we all need to work towards is a more level playing field worldwide, and we might start in our own backyard. Unfortunately, things like NAFTA address the needs and wants of existing Big Business, not the needs and concerns of small operations or individual citizens of any of the countries involved. For example, the agreement has meant that US corn flooded the Mexican market, putting many subsistence farmers out of business, creating yet another source of people who will come across the border just to be able to help their families survive.

I guess what I'm saying is it is all part of a bigger picture, and we need to put our attention on that bigger picture and stop already with the fence-building rhetoric, it's a bad idea and we have already had a case where an employer got fined for hiring -- you guessed it -- illegal aliens to help build the fence that is designed to keep them out! A perfect illustration of the futility of the effort.

Dont demonize the "illegals". They are just going to WHERE THE JOBS ARE OFFERED! Its the employers that are "illegal".
Damn! I get tired of this shit!

Mexico's society is even more stratified than ours is. People will do what they have to to eat and support their families.

a simple employment validation check system for employers. It's just that is very little enforcement of the current system.

Can you link that up for me please?
Thanks

I used this system 4 years ago.

Very easy, and weeds out 95% of false #'s.

http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm

I-9 employer sanctions
Like here http://www.paulhastings.com/immigration/docs/html_files/media.1151.htm?did=100339404&manager=

I have never known of any requests by any governmental agency to produce them.

since *ush has taken over.

That would stop the droves of immigrants with no legal status. I would imagine most have no security issues. Then it would be easier to spot those who are legitimate security concerns. It is easier to hide in a mob of a thousand than a group of ten.

Neither "side" of bills in congress represent a sustainable model over the long haul to keep costs down and our jobs from going by the wayside.

The other thing we need to work towards is ditching NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, and the WTO agreements and start fresh on treaties that ALSO look to enforce fair labor and environmental standards as a part of "free trade" so that it is more "fair trade".

The bottom line is that our government needs to find a way to STOP the multi-nationals race to the bottom to find the best thing closest to slave labor, not enable it like they do with our current legalized bribery called campaign financing that we have in place now.

When you have our mutinationals filing with the WTO complaining that Mexico is conducting unfair trade practices when they put tariffs on imported drinks that don't use natural sugar for their sweetener (like they do currently with THEIR version of Coca Cola which is the REAL REAL thing of the past), when in fact it is the multinationals that are conducting unfair trade by DUMPING soft drinks made with cheaper artifically lower-priced soft drinks made with high fructose corn syrup instead of cane sugar, SOMETHING IS WRONG. And what is more wrong is when the WTO supports them and not Mexico's REACTION to the multi-nationals unfair trade practices by means of using tariffs. The problem is that the WTO is an arm of the multi-nationals to subvert national sovereignty, both here (dolphin safe tuna anyone?) and in places like Mexico too. It needs to be SHUT DOWN!

The shifting race to the bottom allows the mult-nationals to hop and skip around the world finding the cheapest labor around, and leaving displaced farmers without jobs who now have to find jobs, many of them coming HERE which contributes more to our immigration problem.

a lot cheaper than building that damn fence too.

If most of them would want to at some point leave themselves without jobs to go to.

can very easily solve the problem by doing the jobs that immigrants do. But its much easier to wave the flag and pretend to be patriotic.

With high speed internet links!

at the cart before the horse mentality. If we get rid of all the immigrants, who would do what they do? No one has addressed that except to say that Americans would do that work. I don't believe it. I'll have to see Americans working in the lettuce fields from sunrise to sunset. This action will only result in conservatives bitching about the increased price of produce in the future.

There is some direct evidence that immigration has harmed less-educated natives; states with the largest increase in immigrants also saw larger declines in natives working; and in occupational categories that received the most new immigrants, native unemployment averages 10 percent.

• While most natives are more educated, and don’t face competition from less-educated immigrants, detailed analysis of 473 separate occupations shows that 17 million less-educated adult natives work in occupations with a high concentrations of immigrants.

• Some of the occupations most impacted by immigration include maids, construction laborers, dishwashers, janitors, painters, cabbies, grounds keepers, and meat/poultry workers. The overwhelming majority of workers in these occupations are native-born.

• The workers themselves are not the only thing to consider; nearly half of American children (under 18) are dependent on a less-educated worker, and 71 percent of children of the native-born working poor depend on a worker with a high school degree or less.

• Native-born teenagers (15 to 17) also saw their labor force participation fall — from 30 percent in 2000 to 24 percent in 2005.

• Wage data show little evidence of a labor shortage. Wage growth for less-educated natives has generally lagged behind wage increases for more educated workers.

A national unemployment rate of 5 percent is irrelevant to the current debate over illegal immigration because illegals are overwhelmingly employed in only a few occupations, done mostly by workers with only a high school degree or less. In these high-illegal occupations, native unemployment averages 10 percent — twice the national average. Moreover, the unemployment rate does not consider the growing percentage of less-educated workers who are not even looking for work and have left the labor market altogether. It would be an oversimplification to assume that each job taken by an immigrant is a job lost by a native. What is clear is that the last five years have seen a record level of immigration. At the same time, the unemployment rate of less-educated natives has remained high and the share that have left the labor force altogether has grown significantly. Wage growth has also generally been weak. Thus it is very hard to see any evidence of a labor shortage that could justify allowing illegal aliens to stay or to admit more as guestworkers. Rather, the available evidence suggests that immigration may be adversely impacting less-educated natives. The statistical findings of this study are consistent with other research that has looked at the pattern of immigrant job gains and native loses in recent years.1

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back206.html

Not disputing anything in your post. We have laws on the books right now, unenforced. We have proposed solutions which would round em all up and throw em over the border. I foresee more crops rotting in the field and the corresponding bitching about shortages of produce. Native born kids are not losing their jobs because of immigrants, they are losing the jobs because of employers who want cheaper labor.

The problem is, people are entering the country under those guidelines, but rules have been changed so that they can now work custodial, food service, construction, etc. That's why farmers are having a hard time finding workers. Change the rules back to the way they used to be, and after maybe one or two crops fail to get picked, the agribusiness will have pony up better wages for the workers, and the job will get done.

Sounds like we mostly agree. That's nice, because I respect your opinion Boss. :)

Not just the illegal ones, either. Fear Terrorism! And he's not happy about Muslim immigrants in general. Or just about any immmigrants, in fact.
http://findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Steven+A.+Camarota%22

His article was published by the Center for Immigration Studies. Here's what RightWeb has to say about that group.

“Let’s be clear,” wrote Frank Sharry of the National Immigration Forum, “CIS was birthed by FAIR, the militant anti-immigration group. The CIS executive director moved from FAIR to CIS to head up the organization. Although now independent, the two organizations share the same basic agenda: an American version of what in Europe is called ‘zero immigration.’” According to Sharry, CIS masquerades as an objective, “squeaky clean” think tank, but CIS is “simply churning out high-sounding, low-credibility grist for the high-pitch, low-road anti-immigration forces in the United States.” This assessment of CIS is widely shared among pro-immigrant groups, but CIS studies are not only frequently cited by the “low-road” nativist forces but also by major news media.

CIS has also been critiqued as being part of a network of anti-immigrant groups that cater to a white supremacist constituency by right-wing economic libertarians who believe in the benefits of mass and unfettered immigration.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1452

Furthermore, those jobs for the less educated are also the jobs into which the more educated citizens are displaced by unnecessarily high H1-B immigration.

I was an engineer. Then I was a carpenter. Then I was unemployed. Now I'm "not in the workforce". I had anticipated retiring one day, but I expected that I'd be over 45 when I did.

Those jobs didn't go away, they are now being performed by others, statistically less likely to be citizens.

It's like a concentrated effort to assure that US citizens won't obtain gainful work.

At least, we are still trying to. Illegal crews are underbidding us so much that it's hard to get jobs that pay our wages and supplies (and we are only making $10-$16 per hour. That's $10 for the helpers, and $16 for the Master Painter, who should be making closer to $18-$20 like he was 10 years ago).

I see the criminal here being whomever is accepting the bid not the one offering it.

when they are just looking to get their house painted?

No. The responsibility lies with the contractor/company hiring the crew.

I have a rush loving wingnut brother in law who last year had a temporary lapse of his core values. When remodeling a house he hired help he "met" at the local Home Depot....parking lot.

:rofl:

Yes, "cheaply" is the bottom line.

dyslexia got the best of me. I agree with you, the responsibility is the hirer not the hiree.

don't do the jobs (at a fraction of what the job should be paid out at I might add) who will do the job? The fact is laws are being openly broken, and all some can think about is those that are breaking them. Go figure.

ww

If these companies were forced to hire American citizens, they would have to pay a respectable wage and provide a safe working environment. That may result in a higher price for some goods, but that would be acceptable in exchange for the benefits to the lower class in our country. By importing foreign workers who will work in sweatshop conditions for very low wages, the country has been decimating the poorest and weakest of our citizens, who cannot pull themselves up to the white collar jobs which are supposedly the only jobs "worth" an American having. But that was before, they now want to import as many high skill workers as they can from poor countries as well. Not to make them citizens mind you, they give them some kind of temporary visa and hire them for about 15000 - 20000 below market value for the position, thus driving down the wages of highly skilled workers as well. This is the neo-liberal way to fight economic disparity, they want all workers, no matter how highly skilled or unpleasant the occupation, to be paid almost nothing. That leaves more money for the people who deserve it, ie the rich aristocratic families which own everything. Working people need to stick together, and that includes the highly skilled workers who thought they would be immune to the perils of neo-liberalism. It doesn't matter if you pick lettuce or if your a doctor, if you work for someone else you are vulnerable to the legal onslaught the wealthy have been perpetrating against working people. And flooding the streets with illegal workers who will work for nothing is part of that onslaught. A permanent underclass of non-citizen workers who will work far below the standard wage without any rights undermines all workers.

that said during the Clinton administration over 2000 companies and/or employers were found to be hiring illegals. They were fined and kept an eye on so they wouldn't further violate.

But during the bush years only 150 and those were given token fines and let go.

they argue...why should the law be enforced? why should the minimum wage be increased? why should employers be "penalized" for hiring criminals to make money for them? why should "lazy and overpaid" "unionized" Americans be paid more or have good health insurance when "hardworking" illegal immigrants can bring in more profits?

Democrats in Congress need to zero in on this issue! they need to point out that providing more visas for illegals lowers wages for all of us. and Democrats in Congress need to investigate this administration, and hold Bush accountable for looking the other way when this is happening!

illegals aren't coming across the border because our citizens are paid too much, they are coming across the border because Bush isn't enforcing the law and Congress doesn't force the executive branch to use our tax dollars to solve this problem!

As a person who works for DoJ-Immigration, I agree with you 100% and have said many times that we don't have an illegal immigration problem, we have an illegal hiring problem. Cut off an employers ability to get away with hiring illegals and 90% of the problem goes away.

Last year Swift & Co. the #3 meat-packer in the US got hit by DHS. A total of 1,200+ illegal workers were picked up. One pork processing plant alone had 230 illegal workers picked up. Swift may face a few million in fines. Sounds like a lot until you compare it to the 9.35 billion in sales that Swift did last year. Swift gets off with a slap on the wrist and the taxpayers carry the burden, because guess who foots the bill for the court costs on this? You do. I do.

Swift cried about the business losses but was not charged with any infractions. As you can see, Sen. Hagel is quite concerned about the "tough spot" business is put in and they're reaction is to just to bail.


http://www.theindependent.com/stories/06222007/new_hagelimm22_001.xml.shtml

If we would only enforce the laws we have currently have the hiring of illegal workers, we wouldn't need to waste future resources on illegal immigration. Instead of blaming those coming here for jobs that are readily available, blame the employers providing them with those jobs.

Who's going to then pick your crops?

Who's going to then roof or construct your new homes?

Who's going to then cook your restaurant meals?

Who's going to then staff the hotel you stay at on vacation?

Who's going to then do your lawn care?

This is a complicated issue, that will need a thoughtful solution. While I don't believe that immigrants should be able to illegally flood our borders, the economic collapse from a crackdown such as one you promote will greatly harm this country.

I've heard a lot from both sides concerning jobs that Americans won't do. Sure, there isn't a job out there that Americans won't do, the ones that migrant Mexicans do are ones that damned few Americans WILL do. There certainly aren't enough Americans willing to do the types of jobs in the industries listed above to keep those industries afloat without Mexican labor. I know, because I have seen this first hand. I have worked in all of the above industries.

In short, I don't really know what the answer is to this issue. What I do know is that this is just another hot button issue that the repubs have laid out perfectly for the media to sieze upon in an election cycle to distract from the complete and utter failure of the Bush administration on every level.

And it seems to be working.

Wages go up to offset up tick in costs.
More money circulated.
Stronger economy.
Labor to jobs balance restored.

yes they will

wage structure. But it is a moot point if an industry collapses because of lack of a labor force.

...need to determine what our actual labor needs are instead of this runaway lawlessness and flood of the labor pool that is happening right now.

Agreed?

The republicans are playing the country like a violin again, raising a hot button issue in an election cycle. Everyone should know that no politician, be it republican or democrat is willing to settle it before the election in 08.

I know people who can, will and do preform all these jobs currently, excluding the crop picking as we have little to none of that in my area. All the people I know who preform these tasks are legal workers.

That Americans won't do this type of work is a myth. That Americans don't want to do this type of work for below a living wage in the United States is the problem. Hiring illegal workers at lower wages is not an answer that will benefit the majority of Americans, but rather a minority of employers.

As I said, there are exceptions to the rule, and I have been one of those, but when you are talking about staffing entire certain industries, you are only kidding yourself, if you believe that they can be staffed fully by American labor. It has never happened and it will never happen, because too many Americans are not willing to do these types of jobs.

The kind of credit that's been getting us into huge stinking debt and slaves to the credit card companies. At some point you won't be able to pay for your debt, you won't be able to pay for school, and there won't be any jobs when noone is buying goods/services and jobs cut back on hiring (aka THE DEPRESSION PART 2). Then Americans will renew their understanding that even things like picking crops are worth doing if it brings you food. Too bad though that the next depression we won't have that many family farms left to rescue working America to avoid a Mad Max type world like we did in the earlier depression.

It IS a myth that they won't do these jobs. Many young people will do these as "breaking in" summer jobs, etc. too like they used to.

For the umpteenth time I will tell you that yes, SOME Americans are willing to do certain jobs, but NOT ENOUGH TO SUSTAIN EMPLOYMENT IN CERTAIN INDUSTRIES!

Jeezus! I've picked apples for a living, worked on both horse and sheep ranches, worked new home construction, done hotel work, worked in restaurants and worked in the lawn care business, and I'm telling you that these industries are the type that cannot be staffed without Mexican labor because most Americans will not do these jobs.

Believe what you want. I know better, because I've been there. What is your experience?

The current labor force is 157 million people. The number of currently unemployed is 7 million with another 79 million not in the labor force (aren't currently looking for work). There are estimated to be perhaps 12 million illegal workers in this country. In 2000 only 69 million people were not in the labor force. In seven years, 10 million Americans have left the workforce, in no small part due to the impossible competition from illegal workers.

There is no more reason to conclude that enforcing worker eligibility law will lead to the collapse of industries than there is to conclude that a minimum wage hike will. It's a chamber of commerce scare tactic.

There are millions of people in this country who would work if they had the opportunity to do so gainfully.

I guarantee it won't be us Americans. We're too good to clean hotel rooms, wash dishes, pick crops, etc...

Uh... that's one.

washed dishes, made phone books, dug ditches, cleaned Hotel rooms, worked a cattle ranch, done construction, and done landscapeing.

And yes, we will do it, even for a sub-par wage when we have to, but a living wage is better.

My premise is that the many more of these positions can and should be filled by American laborers. Just as they have been in the past. It would require a reduction of profits on a corporate level and an increase of pay on an employee level, but it is not an impossible goal as some would like us to think.

From my understanding construction is the easiest of these industries to correct with filed workers being the most difficult. I would suggest tackling the employers in the construction industry first and moving down from there.

that is very true. Why don't americans walk bean fields or other crops? because it's hard fucking work (physically) and five dollars an hour ain't worth it. Pay them closer to ten or twelve and you might get some takers.
Now can the farmer afford to pay it? hopefully and probably, yes he passes the expense on to the consumer but that's how it works isn't it?

if you paid workers in the field $10 per hour.

Totally worth it. :)

They've done so in the past and they can do so in the future.

I said they won't, not in numbers that will support certain industries. They never have, never will, and like I said earlier, you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise. I've seen it, up close and personal.

What kind of jobs and pay grades?

With the possible exception of picking crops, they still are in Minnesota, although they are being pushed out of roofing.

I saw two shirtless, sweaty white guys with a lawn care business in my neighborhood yesterday.

Maybe you should make an up close and personal visit north, especially outside of the Twin Cities.

I read your post and think you're wrong.

A significant portion of my high school (late 90's) did lawn work in our community.

Meh...we're going to get bogged down in whether the "industry" was supported by these numbers. I prefer to nitpick the extremities...consider myself withdrawn.

Edit: Substance.

Those of us who work should be so lucky as to live in a society with a labor shortage.

You'll have more than 50 a day boarding the train after awhile. They will begin to feel unwanted and unappreciated, and the word will get around, that it is risky to stay. People want to control their own destiny, and will not sit around waiting to be arrested, and deported.

And where do you get the 50? You can't just pick up people from the street, so you get them from the employers, and fine the employers heavily. The employers have reaped the benefits of cheap labor, they accumulated all that money, and they should be able to pay it without affecting their current operations. Reparations for slavery, anyone? And guess what? The employers will become more concerned and tighten up their employment practices, because you know they really don't have that money for fines. And you'll have more than 50 boarding the train after awhile.

Illegal immigration creates illegal hiring.

Illegal immigration is caused by there being jobs for them to get here. If there were no jobs availible, they wouldn't be coming over for them.

Sure, we would still have a tiny amount of illegals coming over for other reasons, but if they can't get work, it takes away 90% of the reasons for being here.

employer's doors...NOT the other way around.

and if you fine one you have to ETHICALLY FINE THE OTHER.

it takes two to play the game.

Which leaves the problem at the doorstep of the Americans who are hiring illegals.

if the jobs were NOT available, they would not come over for them.


and yes, companies go to Mexico to recruit them...

Before planting and harvest time in the United States it has been common for local recruiters to fan out across Mexico's parched countryside to sign up guest workers. The recruiters charge the Mexicans hundreds of dollars, sometimes more, for the job and the temporary visa that comes with it.

http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/052407LB.shtml

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

..is breaking the law and you are standing by watching?

Good grief.

Please explain.

You made the claim, now back it up.

maybe his agenda is that he doesn't think people should be breaking the law...

:wtf:

And of course the people who get blamed are the people starved out of their homes and business people here. Damn. :(

we could get something done about the awful "free" trade agreements we have with Mexico.

It's sick how we blame the immigrants for coming here and taking our jobs while our own gov't has forced so many Mexicans out of work in their own country. Where do we think they're going to go for work? Next door seems pretty straight forward to me. It's an absolutely horrible economic trap. Anybody making money off of the illegal immigrants don't have anything to worry about - no accountability. The workers, that goes for American and Mexican workers alike are the victims of this trap. Only, the Mexicans actually get put in cages.

I think most of us have more in common with your average illegal immigrant than maybe we want to admit. What would we do in their situation? Gotta eat to live. Need money to eat. How many of us have moved clear across the country because there aren't any jobs in your area? What if we didn't even have that option? What would we do?

We should be finding a common solution for all workers no matter where we come from or what we look like. The world is a lot smaller place economically. The corporations see this and have united in their cause. It's time the workers of the world see this and unite. The longer we stand around yelling at each other the longer the money makers have to make more money. It's not American workers vs. Mexican workers as many people in power would lead us to believe. In fact, it's not just an immigration issue. The flow of illegal immigrants is a symptom of a much bigger problem, which pretty much no politician will touch. "Free" trade.

Time and time again we blame the victims. We are so good at doing that in our country. It's like part of our culture or something. Sick.

K&R

nice post. :)

last night, He said although he would like to live in the US he said it is extremely hard to get a green card. He said he understood why so many "illegals" were flooding the US because its damn near impossible to come here legally, unless you have political assylum and they needed to feed their families.


Illegals are the symptom not the problem, it is the companies that hire illegal immigrants that is exploiting everyone. I agree with that.

I have a couple of thoughts that mirror yours somewhat.
First, I believe that all the money that is going to be spent on a "WALL":crazy: should be spent on enforcement agents. Lets hire 50,000 enforcement agents to go after the real culprits, the corporations who hire these illegal immigrants.
Not only would this greatly help the immediate issue, but it would have a wonderful side effect of putting thousands to work. Not only the 50,000 agents, but also thousands of others who would get those jobs that the illegals have now.
The bottom line is, if the corporations can NOT hire them without facing jail time and real monetary consequences, they problem diminishes.

And that didn't work.

And the check before you hire is too controlling - then we all have to be subjected to it. It's very Soviet. It also discourages start up companies and entrenches the big corporations eveyone complains about as the only valid employers - the big companies can afford Americans, and they'll face even less competition from startup companies, and we'll be even more dependent on the corporations we condemn all the time.

I say remain the land of the free, give these people visas so they can demand minimum wage - that's what it boils down to. As long as they "can" work for less, they will. In fact, this is why you have outsourcing. And if you taxed companies for outsourcing, they would pass the cost right on down to the customer.

Capitalism sucks, but it's apparently all we have. It is a pipe dream that we can legislate to the rest of the world that they won't compete with us. We claim to be the greatest, yet we're afraid to compete. And yet the reality is we have to. We can make all the immigration restrictions we want - the economy will still go on in the outside world and work the way it always does. Whoever will do the job for least, and do the job the best, will get it. We could end up legislating ourselves in to massive unemployment, just to avoid the competition, and then finding out that we can't avoid the competition.

that's too intrusive?!

Screw that! Credit checks are intrusive, not allowing employees to smoke (even at home) is intrusive... this is nothing, just verifying paperwork. :shrug:

that uses the needs of its people for work in the US as a pressure relief valve. Neither the US government, corporate America, nor Mexico's government is interested in changing this dynamic. Nor are average Americans who appreciate clean hotel rooms, a multitude of restaurants, cheap labor for construction work, and fresh produce they can still afford. I'm looking forward to seeing the "problem" solved with higher wages(that, of course, include benefits) so that the millions of Americans anxious to do that work can actually take those jobs. :sarcasm:

I do agitprop graphiti.
One of the ones I have been using is Its not the Mexicans Its the criminals who hire them.

I have noticed that the portajons I write this in have fewer rascist/freeper responses and more fuck the man type of response.

good on you!

:thumbsup:

A significant, if not majority, of the incentive is due to the prospect of employment.

Edit: Substance.

contact with federal bureaucracy is the IRS, which is, for obvious reasons, the most efficient bureaucracy it has.

This "simple check" will take weeks. Then it will go through easily for big established employers, but held up smaller companies, and hold up their expansion. Every regulation of this kind does that, from tax withholding the child support collection. Anyone who has ever dealt with the INS or CIS will tell you this. It will end up taking weeks to get approval for your employee. Every US citizen will be subjected to the kind of delay that immigrants (and their US petitioners) experience from the INS.

It gives more power to the corporatists, and we will get to the point where the big companies are the only viable employers, given them even more power than they already have.

This country needs to get back to the entrepreneurial spirit that made it what it is - every thing of this kind makes us more dependent on the big corporations and protects them from competition.

The small company who wants to hire someone with a hispanic name will, even if that person is a citizen, get endless crap from this bureaucracy you've envisioned. Many hispanics are citizens, and that will result in some citizens (those with Anglo sounding names) having an advantage in the job market.

Once you pass a law like this, it always leads to a bureaucracy with appeals and court hearings. This will create many discrimination claims.

Things like this need to be throught through. It seems the average American does not realize the practical aspects of things like this.