Pelosi on Bush: “He’s not worth impeaching”

http://scholarsandrogues.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/pelosi-on-bush-hes-not-worth-impeaching/

Pelosi on Bush: “He’s not worth impeaching” June 28, 2007

Posted by Martin in citizenship


I had the pleasure of subbing in for Sam for a conference call with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today. Although there were a good number of progressive bloggers in attendance with a lot to say, Pelosi pretty much dominated the conversation, sometimes answering questions before people could even ask them. I was impressed with how knowledgeable she was on environmental issues in particular, ranging from biofuel creation and consumption to raising CAFE standards. Good stuff. Dave Johnson of Seeing The Forest has a fairly thorough recap of the conversation.

Dave actually asked the question I want to address here. Pelosi was discussing the absolute lack of oversight and accountability that has been a hallmark of the Bush junta, and Dave said, simply, “What are you going to do about it?”

Pelosi’s argument against impeachment was, simply, that it wouldn’t be worth expending the political capital and effort to push the process forward. If the situation had been Bush coming in as a new president, she said, things might have been different, but with less than two years left on his watch and his record as a miserable failure etched in stone , the stronger weapon was oversight. Pelosi specifically mentioned the subpoena power that, she said, is making the Dem Congress “Bush’s worst nightmare.”

Essentially, Pelosi argued that we need to push forward and get a Dem in the White House in 2008 to really start enacting serious change, noting that even with majorities in both Houses, the Dems’ power could not overcome the 60 Senate votes needed to beat a Bush veto, and that the courts would be particularly unfriendly to Democratic moves for criminal investigations unless they substantially “built the cases” for each move. “Let the process play out,” she said. “Oversight isn’t political, it’s patriotic.”

snip//

Bush has almost two years left to do incalculable damage and to continue to sully and stain the future and reputation of our country. At a time when the nation’s mindset is leaning more progressive left than ever, and we have strong enough leaders in Congress and elsewhere to make the change, it’s tough to accept that impeaching Bush (and Cheney) for their flagrant violations of law and ethics can’t be done. Right now, they are in the way of making this country a better place.

Indeed, the biggest obstacles to turning this country around are in the White House right now. And when an obstacle is in your way, you find a way around it, or you go through it. If we can’t get around them, then they need to go.

all dry.

she doesn't want to waste the politcial capital????

what the fuck? is she taking a page from morons* play book????

She fails to understand that if she impeached these mother fuckers the dems would have enough capital to play with for the next 50 years.

:banghead:

As long as our leaders defend the Constitution as their number one agenda they are then worthy of holding high elected office. When they step on it, or refuse to defend it, they need impeached regardless of Party.


edited to add: regardless of Party.

Despicable.

utterly disgusting

That is the first thing that came to mind as I read the title of the thread.

Let a REAL Democrat start the impeachment proceedings. Obviously you've been in the beltway too long. If you wish to make me happy to have you as our Speaker - begin by arresting Chimp and Darth for contempt of Congress because they have ignored the subpoenas for too long.

OMG.

Did Nancy Pelosi REALLY say THIS:

Pelosi’s argument against impeachment was, simply, "that it wouldn’t be worth expending the political capital and effort to push the process forward"

If so, then we are in TERRIBLE shape.

The leader of our party is saying that it would not be "worth the political capital" to IMPEACH the worst pResident in this country's fucking history!

The leader of our party is saying that it would not be "worth the political capital" to call the pResident who has given us wiretapping and who led us to a useless war to account for his actions!

Sad. VERY Sad.

political capital?

Our constitution is worth defending.

How is that for a new avatar?

And expending the effort to impeach him will insure a win for the dems in '08. If you leave him and his gang there, they will have time to steal the next election.....and/or another "terrorist" attack on America. It's long past time to impeach.

in power.....a year ago people were saying it's not worth it....well, look how MUCH WORSE it is today. If they had been impeached a year ago we could be on our way to undoing some damage. The powder ought to be good and damn dry by now.

It takes 2/3 of the Senate to convict. Whether that means impeachment as a political stand would be "worth" it or not is another question, but impeaching him wouldn't stop him from doing damage.

to a majority of voters: like in "which Representatives stand for the rule of law in the United States Congress, and are therefore trustworthy to defend the Constitution so let's vote for them" as opposed to "these crooks are all the same so FT I'm stayin' home this time! ('08)"

Do you really want the actual *ineffective* Ds' poll numbers to go on their "way of the Titanic" or would you prefer to take "the way of what must be done in regards to what the Constitution prescribes must be done" before it's too late (and have the courage to do such "hard work" to save the United States)?

Why do PelosiCo think the voters would not go out to vote for the Representatives who will have saved the United States of America from the "New Imperial Tyrants of Dumbminica" and who the heck are the Dems "strategists" these days anyway? FIRE THEM!

:evilfrown:

I absolutely agree that his whole sham of a presidency has been an absolute horror, lousy with illegality, and he deserves to be ridden out of office on a rail. But I'm just saying that the reality is, impeachment would not get him out of office.

Bill Clinton was impeached, and, even though that was a complete mockery of the Constitution, he was closer to being thrown out of office than bush is. bush won't resign because he's impeached and he won't be convicted in the Senate.

Le plus ca change le plus ca le meme chose

:mad:

Nancy baby is taking the easy way out, next she'll come out to tell us not to be upset with Bush, personaly? Pelosi is all talk and no freegin action...! needs to be replaced asap!

As of now at least a few Republicans are leaning our way. If impeachment is started they may lean the other way and try to defend Bush. It's a gamble for Pelosi and we just have to hope she knows what she is doing. Needless to say I would love to see Bush impeached and Cheney in prison.

evident Cheney (first) and Bu$che (next) DID break the law?

R they not (supposed to be...) LAWMAKERS?

When do Lawmakers want to be viewed as accomplices of Lawbreakers by those who pay them to uphold the Constitution (voters)?

It seems to be an unavoidable conclusion that Impeachment is now the only possible means of oversight we have left.

Please quit playing the same tired old god damned politics and fulfill your constitutional obligations!

And what if that's not the case? What if the public is so pissed off at the Dems for doing nothing about this illegal administration and the illegal war, that they flip back in the other direction and vote Repub again? What then, Nancy?

George Bush claimed he was going to spend every cent of political capital he attained with a stolen vote and our party doesn't want to spend their legitimate capital with a landslide vote.:crazy:
Note to Nancy:
In case you haven't noticed, there is a "Yard Sale" sign on the White House.
There won't be anything left by the time we get there except debt and ruin.

If he leaves office without being held accountable (and I mean actually held accountable) - it's a win for him.

He and his will spin his legacy anyway they want to and as much as people need to think the "truth" will make all the difference in the world - not to point out the obvious but - the "truth" alone hasn't stopped right wingers yet. It won't this time either.

Random person to Bush. "History won't be kind to you!"
Bush to random person: "So?"

check you PMs

We would not be in this mess if Kerry would have stood his ground in 2004 and kept his promise to count all votes .

Now we have elected Dems who have hearings , ok maybe good but no help right now .

My main hope was as soon as the Dems got the majority in 2006 however slim that at least impeachment would be the first thing attempted .

18 months left of bush and we may very well be in a new kind of hell .

It's one thing for people like Pelosi to look at 2008 but quite another for all the people who are now suffering and will be lost to go down with the ship well before 2008 gets here .

This could all go down the drain if there is another terrorist attack here and then bush pulls out his #51 card and cancels the elections . Or Cheney finds the path to attack Iran or both .

This feels like holding a match near an open gas tank .

and that the process should play out.

The end of that congressional investigative process has the same design for accountability that an impeachment does. That committee effort intends for there to be consequences beyond just removal from office. The oversight effort intends for there to be criminal prosecutions and criminal penalties as a result of their investigations and hearings, not just a political judgment by the present balance of legislators which is insufficient for ensuring a conviction.

for their crimes, they plan more crimes.

email, write or call her office and re-iterate their desire to see the Dem
Congress act on impeachment - of both of the crooks. We elected Pelosi and the
rest of them - they need to be reminded they represent us - they are not our parents
and get to what they think is best for us. They work for the people, the people
need to DEMAND impeachment.
I think the public outcry is what killed the Immigration Bill.
Let's use public outcry to demand impeachment!!!!!!

I hope that's a misprint.

And yes I know I need a flamesuit to say this but if anyone ever actually thought a slight majority would equal impeaching both Cheney and Bush and installing Pelosi in the WH they are just not reality based. I'm sorry but that is just pure fantasy.

...which just goes to show how much he knows about the US Congress.

:thumbsup:

That's like saying "oh, please, a few robberies, a few murders here and there, who cares. At least we're not ruining their lives"

we are so royally screwed. :-(

This is like if an 80-year-old man breaks into your house, rapes and murders your whole family, steals everything you have of value and then, before he leaves, sets your house on fire...and when the police catch him as he's running away, you say "Oh, no point arresting him and charging him...he's 80 years old, he's going to die soon anyway."

x(

break us until that stupid election in 2008 we cannot wait that long, this is truly disgusting.

That is precisely what is happening here, and it's sickening! :puke:

'good plan' Nancy. :sarcasm:

:puke: on you Nancy

etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

They control the courts how much relief is possible (if) they do leave voluntarily after the fact? I am not convinced they will leave. Ms. Pelosi is not the first to underestimate a despot.

Bush without Cheney is nothing anyway.

is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

When legislators who are capable of putting an end to criminality by the administration fail to act against it, it's equivalent to aiding and abetting.

:thumbsup:

at long last.

I will ONLY support and vote for a Democrat who believes that TRUTH MATTERS!

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

c'mon Nance, what do ya think, time's a wasting, look at the clock!!

I think the majority of America (and the world) think other wise on Pelosi's decision, that shrub is well worth throwing overboard along with his Sith Lord Cheney. Of all the Presidents deserving of Impeachment, its ShrubCo!

The people want their ass gone, we do not want them to just walk off the Hill. We want them escourted off the Hill in handcuffs!

history.

And the nation crumbles and out rights go out the window. :argh:

"We're not worth it" imo

eom

Uh YEAH--he's *worth impeaching*

That is like saying Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't worth the cost of sending cops to look in his freezer (hello?)

I am so GOD DAMNED sick of this crap--

If I wanted two parties of bush sympathizers I would have just voted for the usual apologist bush ass kissers (the republicans)

Note to reps, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES! THIS PRES AND VP ARE CROOKS AND THEY HAVE TURNED THE FREAKING CONSTITUTION ON IT'S HEAD!

Let me continue...THIS IS NOT A GAME, PEOPLE ARE DYING, GET THESE ASSHOLES OUT OF OFFICE.

Gee, I really don't even feel any better--maybe I should just go out in the yard light myself on fire and yell POLITICIANS SUCK until I die or the cops show up.

Immigration Bill, they should be jammed again with calls from WE THE PEOPLE, to get these sick SOB's out and stop destroying this country and other countries. They can all go to hell.

Can Pelosi be impeached?

Fuck political correctness. I want that insane murderer out of there yesterday - he's already done too much irreparable damage to our country.

Sorry, Nancy, but you brought this upon yourself. Either start listening to the will of the people or prepare yourself for a nice, quiet retirement on the beach while we replace you with a Democrat who's willing to get some work done on Capitol Hill.

Same old mistakes, same old stubborn "let's really miss the boat and then wring our hands wondering what went wrong" stuff. Sigh.

You took an oath to defend the constitution. DEFEND IT, OR STEP ASIDE.

It's not about him or his worthiness. It's about us and our desire to protect our nation from a cadre of traitors.

Go home, little girl. Make way for the adults, what say?

appreciate the "little girl" comment. A WHOLE lotta men are truly responsible for 'where the United States of America' is today'....which is a VERY VERY sad position.

I hope & trust you will edit your post.

Peace,
M_Y_H

Btw, I don't want to take this thread off on a tangent either....so please don't 'go there'.

Alert on me if you want to. I will NOT edit my post.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

...not nazi. It stands for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NDSAP), English: National Socialist German Workers Party.

Grammer is important in this case:hurts:

OK.... :rofl:

How about Grammar?

Spelling is as important as grammar.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

If Boosh isn't worth impeaching, who is? It sounds to me like the Founding Fathers specifically wrote the impeachment clause for Boosh, or thugs like him.

:argh:

BTW, Nancy, how's that oversight thing workin' for ya?

then, no. no n/t

Make that: I'm mad as hell, and ...

Principal and integrity not to mention the rule of law have no place in US politics anymore. It's all about how your actions might be used against you by your political opponents, and nothing more. The Constitution really is nothing more than a "quaint" document, and "we the people" are an obsolete entity.

And the band played on:

A public service announcement followed me home the other day.
I paid it nevermind. Go Away.
Shits so thick you could stir it with a stick-free Teflon whitewashed presidency.
We're sick of being jerked around.
Wear that on your sleeve.

Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
We're sick of being jerked around.
We all fall down.

Have you ever seen the televised St. vitus subcommittee prize
Investigation dance? Those ants in pants glances.
Well,look behind the eyes.
It's a hallowed hollow anesthetized
"save my own ass, screw these guys"
smoke and mirror lock down.

Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
The Papers wouldn't lie!
I sigh, Not one more.

It's been a bad day.
Please don't take a picture.
It's been a bad day.
Please.

We're dug in deep the price is steep.
The auctioneer is such a creep.

The lights went out, the oil ran dry
We blamed it on the other guy
Sure, all men are created equal.
Heres the church, heres the steeple
Please stay tuned-we cut to sequel
ashes, ashes, we all fall down.

Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
Ignore the lower fear
Ugh, this means war.

It's been a bad day.
Please don't take a picture.
It's been a bad day.
Please.

Broadcast me a joyful noise unto the times, lord,
Count your blessings.
We're sick of being jerked around.
We all fall down.

It's been a bad day...


REM - It's Been a Bad Day

Time to get replace Pelosi and Reid. They're either too ignorant or too corrupt to lead. I can't decide which.

being inaugurated president I knew she was just SHOW!

She will go down in history as the biggest female loser!

Every time she schucks and jives with Bush it just gets worse.

"lovely" man. I'm not kidding. Jeez, the man's a war criminal, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, uses the Constitution as toilet paper, and she says he's "lovely." And media whore Rose was eating it up.

Disgusting.

That is a very odd descriptive of a man. I have suspected for some time that she feels some sort of "love" for Bush which is for sickening and very unprofessional politically.

She made so much of being the first woman speaker but she is setting back women to the last century. She is so unfit for this job at such an important and critical time in our history.

She went on about what a nice guy she thinks he is and about the service his "patriotic" family has given to the nation. It was vomit-inducing.

I mentioned this on another thread and received a response that she obviously couldn't call the chimp an asshole on tv. Fair enough. But heaping praise on him was unnecessary, unprofessional, and made her look like she was trying to avoid an anthrax letter.

I'm with you. She's infatuated with him. Someone in her position needs to be tough as nails. She may think she's killing him with kindness. She's just making herself look weak by comparison.

How could anyone with a brain consider a man who has ordered so many deaths as being lovely or a nice guy? I consider him to be so evil he may be the Devil incarnate.

I certainly agree that Madame Squeaker looks weak. She should be setting her parameters and not let Bush cross them. The position of speaker that she fought so hard to get demands that she harden up, act professional and confine the flirting to her bedroom with her husband.

When she says these sweet things about Bush, smiles so brightly in his presence, and permits him to hang his paws on her, she does look extremely schoolgirlish and very weak.

And this could make the supeona rather meaningless. I have every reason to believe they are not going to comply. They are not not going to turn power over and leave. Yeah, I know what some may think- :tinfoilhat:

I'd like to believe in Speaker Pelosi. I'd like to think Randi Rhodes is correct when spanking people with this frustration about impeachment being off the table. We are "whining". But I have EVERY reason to believe that there will be some crises that comes up and that they're going to have to institute marshall law, suspend all of our rights, creating a police state. Can we afford to drink the kool aide when we are in crisis? Conyers suggests "Comtempt of Congressional Citation" is probable due to what's happening with these supeona. Then what?

It may well be good to consider that there will be no elections, no constitution and no rights. :think:

If the American pubic doesn't react and shut this govt down, this govt is going to shut us down!

she's not there for herself--she's supposed to conduct the people's business. well--this is a big part of it.

if the job of impeachment is too hard for her then she should GET THE FUCK OUT.

I don't care if we don't have the votes. It's time to do the right thing and let the cowardly rat bastards go on record for obstructing the process. C'mon Nancy. Stand for something. The f*ckers have committed impeachable offenses. There's no other alternative, imo. Hold them accountable. What good is oversight with no accountability?

And YES, Nancy, my country IS worth it.

I'm waiting for the adults to show up. Where the hell are they?

What else have the Dems been doing for the last seven years?

Pelosi seems to think that she's in the clear. She's wrong.

What other options does she think they have left? Continuing to let Bush ignore their subpoenas?

Too stupid to be in Congress.

What the hell are these people in office for?

What the hell are these people in office for?

How foolish are 'we' to think that they might actually work for 'us', when ALL of their actions flys in the face of that hope/reality.

*IMPEACH*INDICT*CONVICT*FACE CONSEQUENCES* for those who have BETRAYED the public's trust....and those that have betrayed that trust are 'legion'.

It was never on the table. Never.

Remember when the "Downing Street minutes" were supposed to be the final nail in the coffin?

And wasn't Valerie Plame supposed to bring it all crashing down?

There were a lot of final nails in the coffin for a while. Remember?

wiping your ass with it?!

These "leaders" make me sick to my stomach.

Bunch of gutless wonders...

Or step down!!!!!! :mad:

One of your children loses his or her life in Iraq because impeachment was off the table, you didn't have the votes, running out the clock was the politically smart thing to do.

Of course, that will never happen. The reason why it won't happen is another thing upon which to meditate.

George Bush may not be worth it, but the United States of America in the year 2007 definitly is worth an impeachment.

But I still want the bastards impeached! If not impeachment, arrest them for multiple felonies at 12:01 PM on January 20, 2009!

“Let the process play out,”

“Oversight isn’t political, it’s patriotic.”

correct.

I guess only republicans have political capital and the ability to use it at will. I think we're seeing the final corruption of the system here. Essentially no official opposition whatsoever, zero accountability to the people they supposedly "represent" the interests of. Why not just announce the president is a supreme leader who is above all rule of law, and be done with it? Call it the enabling act or something.

Same fucking logic. God!

That means they can ignore every single bit of authority Congress claims to have and nothing will ever happen. It is like telling a criminal there can be no fine or jail sentence...but we're watching. Fucked up logic, Pelosi.

Then she is.

why even bother, they obviously don't have our best interests at stake.

"P-R-E-C-E-D-E-N-T" for you. That's "precedent," not "president." If you don't make some move to impeach this pair of bastards, then the precedent has been set for future presidents to be able to commit similar crimes, if not worse, and not be held accountable or to be punished. This refusal to deal with this man is just as damaging as not dealing with him.

And every other pathetic wuss who doesn't want to defend the Constitution and DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS.

I don't care if it's not politically convient for you. Our Constitution trumps any lameass elections.

I kinda resent these "joiners" using the image of HST. Moreover, it takes 67 votes to convict, so impeachment without conviction is like gunplay without pulling the trigger.

Or paying taxes.

anyone else want to join me?

I have news for you; you have none. Do something for a change - ANYTHING.

May they all fucking rot in HELL!

:grr:

I hope Pelosi is tossed right the fuck out of the cushy position that she is so obviously unworthy of come 2008.

I no longer believe in Democrats in congress, been down this road too many times before.

8643

Impeaching Bush is no longer a matter of keeping him in check. Rather it is to keep FUTURE presidents in check! You are giving license to one lawless president after another and I find your myopia to not only be frightening, but also to be downright INFURIATING!!

It's your FUCKING CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY to do so!!!

And oversight doesn't mean shit if all you can give him are nonbinding resolutions and he has the power to veto whatever legislation he wants.

:mad:

than without him. Let him play out the rest of his miserable Presidency and drag his party down with him all the way, Democrats ride to victory in 08 and in a position to make some real and sustainable changes. Makes sense when you think about it.

I thought that was a GOP thing.

I couldn't care less about these politicians and their fucking careers. Couldn't care less about the long term prospects of the party per se, either. If the party isn't fulfilling it's duties, if it's not protecting the Constitution, then it isn't worth a damn anyway.

and it's much easier to get him when he has no political cover. I still think there is a real chance that Bush, Cheney or both will eventually be tried on criminal charges. If the Dems are fully in charge, he they won't even be pardoned.

The Watergate proceedings built very slowly, it wasn't a steamroller by any means, and we had semblance of real journalism back then, so it would be even more difficult politically now. No blowjobs, no blue dresses, no cigars, it will be hard to get the public behind it, DU not withstanding.

that let the Savings and Loan, BCCI and Iran-Contra criminals off the hook. That merely launched the coup of 2000 and the lawless seven years since.

Jeez... And Bill's approval was in the 70's when the Repugs did it to him. Too much political capital? Impeaching the Chimp is a bargain basement way to win the world back to our side. She really doesn't think much outside the box (or DC).

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I didn't realize that in order to impeach somebody it had to be "worth it", especially when everything Bushco has done since 2000 is AT LEAST as nefarious as what Bill Clinton did when he was in office and the fact that Clinton only had another two years in office certainly didn't discourage the GOP from making it worth their wile to attempt to impeach him, especially since it was clear beforehand that they wouldn't actually succeed in removing him from office. When you think about how much time ended up being spent one "-gate" after another while Clinton was in office as well as the Impeachment "episode", it's hard not to feel a bit........angry about all of the important issues and concerns (i.e. Bin Laden) that failed to be adequately addressed if not ignored outright. :wtf: is going on with Pelosi?????

Impeachment is a shitty remedy because it is too hard to remove Bush and Cheney that way. The problem is the Senate. In a parliamentary system, Bush would be long gone, and when we voted for a progressive majority, they could actually do something. And a bloc of 40 Senators from red states couldn't make liberal legislation dead on arrival in Congress.

Easier to believe that all these individual leaders are simply lacking in backbone. Pelosi can't rule by fiat. Why haven't ANY progressives been successful at delivering significant benefits to working people since FDR? FDR had leeway provided by a massive crisis that hit working people hard suddenly and dramatically. LBJ had some domestic successes but he had amazing political skill and was bolstered by huge Congressional majorities, and the mandate to finish the work of a martyred president.

The game is rigged. The argument that we ought to impeach as a matter of principle is worth consideration, but there is almost no chance they would ever be removed. You know Pelosi would love to remove these clowns. It begs the question, why isn't there a remedy with a chance to actually work? You can make the argument that impeachment hearings create political pressure that will bring 67 Senators on board, but honestly, does anyone really believe that? Aren't the odds a helluva lot higher that the other side will just distort and spin and run out the clock? I have no confidence that we could even get all of our own Democratic Senators on board to convict. We can't even get them to use they leverage they actually have to defund the war.

is usually the point when the hero drops his gun and tells off the prone villain and turns his back on him. Invariably the villain tries to shoot the hero in the back and the hero wheels and shoots or some outraged bystander does the final coup de disgrace.

We don't have the drop on the CIC. Our gun is full of subpoena ammo. The only interesting corollary is that if Bush isn't worth it, then Cheney very much is and not just for a bygones be bygones resignation.
I can think of hundreds of thousands of imminently dead innocents and US military personnel that are worth it not to mention the mounting eventual death debt of simply not acting on several inevitable global crises right now- which are already costing lives.

When you have him down and are not propping him up with a Frankenstein immigration bill we might be ready for that cliche line- as inappropriate and dangerous as it is for a lot more people than the Congressional Dems. Oversight is still a vocal intention. Without breaking the WH stonewall there is not enough to see, which oddly, by ALL rational calculations would scream to all the gods for impeachment, punishment and drastic reform.

And this audience knows if the canned hero doesn't- that the villains WILL shoot you in the back no matter what. Maybe right in the pre-attached "Kick Me" sign.

But the Constitution does not explicitly call for that, as it does for impeachment.