"The Bible is pretty clear that married women aren't to work outside the home."

"With my children, I am not going to push any of them to go to college of any kind at all, but if our sons want to, I'll be all for it, but I'm not going to force it. But I'd try to discourage our daughters from going, they would be much better off apprenticing in the home for how to serve their husbands than they would be going to college to "get a career"."
http://www.kjbchurch.com/forums/index.php?topic=31.0

=======

Let's see, you CAN have a home business because you are submissive just to your husband, you CAN homeschool, you should DISCOURAGE girls from going to college, if you are widowed you should move back in with your folks...all these rules for women to follow. Small wonder conservative men want to keep this brand of religion de rigeur for society!

Sounds like incest to me.

and run everything from there. Take special note of Proverbs 31:31, regarding compensation, and 31:16 which has a specific reference to "earnings."

Proverbs 31:10-31 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

For THAT pay?? :crazy:

Says she should get what she deserves. Talks about earnings and profits and NOBODY is managing it but her. This woman isn't asking permission of anybody to do anything. Her judgment is totally trusted and she functions independently and no one says Boo.

Basically, she's encouraged to run factories, buy and sell real estate, dress well, and manage her investments. Not to mention dabbling in fashion, agriculture, import/export....

doesn't LEGALLY OWN ANYTHING.

NOBODY is second-guessing her. SHE is making all the decisions, no one else.

If I were to make a slightly informed guess of my own, I'd say this description of a wife is from ancient Egypt, because it's a close description of the status of women in that nation.

When the patriarchy tells you that man on top is the natural order and the way it's always been, you do not have to buy it as gospel.

Proverbs: 31:21

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

Okay, I want to see the original word in the original language. SNOWS?

(Busily developing rapid new theory for origin of Proverbs 31: 10-31)

Where the hell is Massa anyway? In any event, I'm guessing that Mom was a bit of a proto-feminist.

...and though we often aren't painted in the best light (a woman started original sin, as woman asked for the head of John the Baptist), when it comes down to it, most of the men in the bible wouldn't have been prosperous without them. Also the Bible doesn't really describe women as property, they're more charges of their husband as their children would be. In fact she's the keeper of household affairs, which in fairness to the bible, when it was written, was the MOST important job. She clothed, fed and kept healthy the slaves and family (slavery in the Bible was alittle more like indentured servitude, you had to treat them fairly). She often did the shopping in the market and was the one who balanced the household budget. She also helped shear sheep or pick crops and take them to market. She was the string that held the family together and the well where here husband came to renew his faith and strength. Why is Being a housewife NOT an admiral job in the twenty-first century?

Do I agree we shouldn't encourage young women to be educated? OF COURSE NOT! I'd encourage my daughter to get a degree even if she was making the choice to be a stay at home mom. Nor would I tell her that she is the only one who is to serve in a marriage, cause HE to is suppose to serve his wife and family. But being a good wife and mother, and co-head of household are hard jobs, and if a woman chooses to concentrate on them solely, She should be just as heralded as the one who choose or had to get a job (I know how hard it is to maintain a family on one salary). I just don't think that's necessarily and unintelligent decision to stay home.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to take some dated language and archaic social laws of the time and misinterpret and/or dismiss the message to either degree. But wives were held as sacred in the Bible, and they should be held sacred America too. It's a title as Women, we should be proud to bear.

Should they be honored and heralded as well?

Chirp. Chirp.

And what happens if the husband SPLITS?

OR dies?

What of your vaunted modern day CHATELAINE status then,
when you and your children are LIVING IN A SHELTER, unable
to support yourselves?

Better to keep a foot on dry land at all times, thank you.

:crazy:

Well again I never said I agreed with this article. I simply said not everyone who chooses to stay at home stays at home for those reasons, and not everyone who stays home should be thought of a a nut bag. As I said I would encourage any child of mine to get an education no matter how they chose to run their families, for those reason you mention. So that if the marriage fails or the husband dies, she can take care of her family. But my daughter would never end up in a shelter. Cause I'd help he get back on her feet. And no man would ever hurt my daughter without the full wrath of her family falling upon him I promise you that!

let me say this loud and clear:

IF YOU ARE A MAN IN AMERICA, AND YOU ARE ACTIVE IN YOUR CHILD'S LIFE, YOU DESERVE A HAND!
:yourock:

That's a dying breed right there.

Anyone who chooses to stay at home and give extra attention to their families should be Held up not insulted for their choice. The American family is suffering, and it's not because were not religious enough, it's cause families don't get together anymore. We're all so busy we lose touch of our children, peer pressure and media are starting to have more influence over kids than their parents. And while not all parents are great, I believe most parent want what is best for their kids.

You have all these group advocating censure this censure that, block this, shelter them from that. If the American family wasn't so stressed with monetary concerns, they could develop better relationships with there kids and none of that nonsense would be necessary.

Now I'm not saying if both parents work they're not doing the right thing. I'm just saying if one parent chooses to stay home and take care of the household, that's not a wrong decision, or backward thinking either.

:hi:

I just learned about one specific saying of Jesus' that is totally wrong. (I trust giant chunks of the bible were mistranslated, of course...)

Remember "It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven"? Yeahhhh turns out the Hebrew character for "camel" also means "rope". So "It's easier for a rope to fit through the eye of a needle..." That makes SO much more sense!

it's an Edited book anyways, forget mistranslations. There are like 20 to 50 books you've never heard of cause they cut them out completely. Including a few written from a woman's prospective. And to this day not all versions of the Bible contain the Song of Solomon cause some feel it's to 'racy' to be a book of the Bible. Since its compilation, the Bible had never been the complete ideology nor documentation of every sect of the Christian faith.

That Mary Magdalene was never a "prostitute", but she probably did run her own (everyday, average trade type) business. That's what you get when a bunch of insecure men need to subjugate the women's roles. :eyes: I've heard a lot of the banned gospels are squirreled away in the Vatican--what I wouldn't give for somebody to finally loot that place of the real treasures--not the gold and artwork, but the knowledge!

Why does anyone put any stock whatsoever in this ancient gibberish, translated and mistranslated over the centuries, politicized by kings and whacko deviant 'infallible popes' like so many Merlins acting like Pied Pipers leading millions upon millions to war and guilt and misery to line their damned pockets and build golden edifices to their egos?

I'm just sayin.

Church re-wrote and edited everything not to their Dogma...always subjugating women, just like Koran andBook of Morman, yes, again and always for their little tyrant egos(etc)!!

heading back toward the Dark Ages. It took a lot of really bright and clever people to pull off the Age of Enlightment, fighting the priests and kings who were supported by them, to maintain their inherited countries, given to them by gawd. The Age of Reason has brought the world a lot of good....far more than all the magic tricks and false promises handed out by the religious cults.

And to think after just a couple of hundred years, we are headed back to being ruled by magician despots in their $3000 suits or their golden tophats, promising their sniveling, groveling, cowardly, 'flock' everlasting life in exchange for their only real life...the one here on earth. So much waste. So much waste.

Its depressing.

Nice to see there are a few rational people left on the planet. :hi:

The ones I found had sleeping habits that were incompatible with mine. Oh well. :shrug:

pittied

I can't get the link to load, but I am going by the quote in the OP subject line, which I assume was taken from the site: "The Bible is pretty clear that married women aren't to work outside the home."

Gotta show this to the other half. I'm sick of my job.

But first I must delete that part of the post where the woman's quoted as saying "apprenticing in the home for how to serve their husbands."

Unless she's taking about a recipe book, of course.


;)

Got to learn how to properly read the Bible...

:rofl:

Many, many things are clearly stated in this cursed book.

Born agains are real big on this issue of male dominance and the women firmly embrace it.

It was changed for the KGV because it was popular to hate witches at that time.

The burning season ya know.

Poisoner fits much better. Because, as we know, witches are not likely to be either Christian or Jewish. Although, I suppose it is possible.

He was convinced that these old ladies up the road from one of his castles were all witches and were busily putting hexes on him day and night. He made sure that line was included in the KJV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjPs3bFQxKo


It is frightening that these "values" inexplicably still exist.

This woman should not be surprised if, 20 or 30 years from now, her daughters are divorced, living in abusive and controlling relationships, or back at home, living with mom and unable to take care of themselves. :grr:

In my opinion, discriminating against one's children on the basis of gender is a form of child abuse.

Because 20 or 30 years from now, she'll be getting older and need someone to help take care of her in her infirmity, because heaven knows her beloved sons won't be pulling mommy-diaper duty.

Gross. Gross. Gross. :puke:

Both my paternal and maternal grandmothers, my mother and I would rather die lonely and alone than manipulate others' lives in that way. I suspect Katy-Anne is in for a world of disappointment.

I went home for a visit recently and saw this principle first hand with my mom and one of her cousins. I don't know if it's a cultural thing (Italians), expecting the oldest daughter to take care of her parents. But both of them have gotten screwed that way. The cousin is 57 and has never lived anywhere but in her parents' home. Every time she would get ready to leave, something would come up and she'd need to stay to take care of one or the other (even when they were relatively young) or she'd have to spend her apartment money on something else, etc. Now she lives with her mother, who recently had a stroke, and has put off some critical medical care (she has a hernia the size of a football that needs surgery) waiting for her mother's health to stabilize. This despite the fact that she has a sibling next door and one about 20 minutes away.

My mom at least was able to get out and sort of have a family of her own. But nonetheless for 30 years she has been responsible for helping my grandmother, who was only 50 when my grandfather died. At that point, she was too old to really get in the workforce and doesn't drive at all (in an area with no public transportation). Around the time my grandfather died, my uncles both moved across the country, seeing it as the best option for retaining their own sanity. They might come to visit once every 10 years or so, despite being in the area at least once a year. Because my mom has always been the dutiful daughter who wasn't raised to say no (and because my grandmother is a master manipulator who used guilt as a parenting tool), she has remained in a town she hates, given up career and educational opportunities, and had her mother interfering in her marriage for 30 years. At age 60, my mom's weekend activities are still dictated by her mother's needs (grocery store, post office, Mall-Wart, dog groomer, etc.). My grandmother, meanwhile, has no inkling what my mom has given up for her and still worships the ground her sons walk on.

My husband, DUer Call Me Wesley, is half Italian; his father was Italian by birth and a naturalized Swiss citizen. I believe a lot of how we "turn out," regardless of culture, has to do with the way our mothers and fathers and other significant adults in the family use their power in the family, and how we choose (or don't choose) to respond to those cues as adults. CMW and I are an "Italian family" in a lot of ways, still living just five minutes from the Italian border and we're very family oriented. The family here is close: CMW's mother lives in the house adjoined to ours; his sister and her daughters (our goddaughters) live across the street from us and their dad lives up in the village. But we're very much intent on "family closeness" not costing any family member their self-determination, self-respect and independence.

It's nice sharing with you MountainLaurel (and I love your DU username). :hug:

I didn't mean to fling black at your walls, but I just got back from a visit home and this has been on my mind.

after being given a RENT-free ride. My unmarried brother couldn't leave his mama. Long ago, he cut a deal w/Dad for rent-free living and, at one time, amassed quite a tidy savings, while her two daughters cleaved to husbands and all that a real life brings, joy, and sorrows that were reaped because of what we sowed. :puke: :sarcasm:

I gave up being the family scapegoat and me and mine are currently being shunned by the rest of the Holy Rollers! No more :banghead: for me!

I was going to, but you said it first.

My fundie relatives keep their (obvious but closeted) gay adult son home to do all their dirty work. He's a real momma's boy and won't disobey, even when they ordered him to quit grad school and move across the country with them. Part of it is they know he will be who he really is as soon as they let him out of their sight.

trapped in servitude to their husbands are Andrea Yates and Mary Winkler.

Those poor kids may grow up to despise their ignorant parents

Like the Westboro Baptist Church thingy?

;-)

young girls from attending college. In some ultra orthodox Jewish communities girls are not encouraged to attend college, lest they get exposed to non orthodox ideas.

Get married young and start birthin' babies!

They revert back to the Old Testament when it suits them, but trust in the laws Jesus changed from the New Testament when they want some fatback.

BTW, I don't eat pork - but only because it makes me extremely ill.

And they BELIEVE a lot of stuff that isn't really in there.

So basically, they do what they want, and drag the Bible
into it only when it suits their purposes.

The Bible WARNS us about people like that.

then they make sure it is waved around and NOT ignored.

Most all the heterosexual 'rules' in the Bible are studiously ignored.

Their ideal picture of "marriage" is little different than slavery, IMO.

Their "rules" for being a "good husband" add up to little more
than "take good care of your chattel".

I'm not buying it. And I very much doubt that G*D is, either.

I always thought it was just a sort of no no to but sex and orgies. And in that case, i know alot of heteros that will see "the gays" in hell.

Course I think that's nonsense too....in the end you can't say that God made us the way we are, and he's infallible, but being gay is wrong. Unless you wanna tell yourself 12% to 15% of the population around the world chooses to be insulted, beaten, killed, and have their civil liberties taken away.

I'm sure alot of people would make that choice for butt sex.

I wish people would read the Bible, there are lots of really great messages in it. Truth is it's a cross between a history and a philosophy book. But people who take those words as the only justification for whatever they want do......those who say 'don't question it, it's the Bible' they are/ or are being lead by false prophets, and if there is a Hell, there is a special circle just for them. Truth is you can't judge any religion in the world by the people that practice it. Because people are flawed, but they try to speak for a being they believe is not. I'm a Christian, but I don't worry about hell for anyone, cause I believe if you can be touched by God he will, because I believe we weren't put on this world for subjugation but for companionship and God doesn't put conditions on Love. He's Love is suppose to be UNCONDITIONAL.

...since I don't believe I've seen you here before,
let me say: Welcome to DU! :hi:

I guess this is another "all Christians must believe this" thread.

I thought the OP said "conservative men want to keep this brand of religion".

Bluebear starts about five of these a day, it seems. Every single one of them with the sole intention of painting all Christians with the same negative brush by quoting the most extreme people she can find who claim to speak for all Christians. It is of course followed by about forty posts of the usual mocking, insulting gibberish I've come to associate with any discussion of religion on DU.

Glad I'm not the only one who sees it for what it is.

1. Complete ban on women working outside their homes, including teachers, doctors and engineers.
2. Complete restriction on women's movement outside of their houses without a father, brother or husband.
3. Ban on all use of make-up
4. Banning women from playing any sport or entering a sports centre or club.
5. Ban on studying at school, university or any other educational institution.

Oops, sorry, those are the Taliban's rules. My bad.

And leave baggage like this fool behind her.


My friend :) Good to see you as always :hug:

but men like this fool needing to exercise control. I would wager that when he is able to wield over his family it is the only time feels in control of his life and events around him. Too intellectually lazy to solve societal problems without commands from the priesthood and too insecure in his manhood to treat women as equal.

Her becoming something more than a controlled servant renders him impotent.

:shrug:

There are many meny women in the Bible who worked in and out og the home.... This guy is a moron.

And the JJ only crowd are the most domatic crowd imaginable... these sentiment are not shared by most mainline churches.

Neither fundies there nor the anti-theists here care about actual discourse.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

It was a story about a murder which took place in a small town in Kansas in 1982. There is a Nazarene college and church there which dominate the town. A man was brutally murdered one night but his wife escaped and told the story of a home invasion by two men who knocked her unconscious and then beat her husband to death.

Turns out she was having an affair (not yet sexual) with another man, who came over in the middle of the night and murdered her husband. They were all conservative Christians. The wife didn't want the stigma of divorce and wasn't willing to actually commit adultery, but she conspired with her boyfriend (who was the mans best friend) to commit murder and cover it up. It took 20 years to catch up with them.

Divorce and sex outside of your marriage are worse than beating someone to death and lying about it.


:shrug:

ancient times, who clearly were working out side the home for the corporate masters of their time? How about the slaves who gleaned the fields, prepared the food, served as nursemaids for other women's children...

That is one ignorant fool.

Here:

"I believe a woman can have a "job", but not necessarily a "career".

Maybe it's not wrong for a woman to have a career, but I don't think it's God's plan.

We all know that a woman is supposed to be submissive, and not be in authority over a man, right? (I hope you all agree on that! Smiley ) When a woman pursues a career, there is always the chance that she may rise to a position higher than men in the same career. She may become a supervisor or a manager, and be in authority over both men and women at the workplace."

http://www.kjbchurch.com/forums/index.php?topic=31.0

I don't know why American Christians don't see it, but I see so many parallels between Right-Wing Christians and extremist Muslims. I don't understnad why we don't compare the two more often.

I try to be careful about that. I'm not looking for a fight here.

as "Right Wing"? As a group, I believe they are a very small number. Unfortunately here all Christians are treated like they are literal bible believing morons.

It is sad that they have drug their narrow cult like views into the public square in an attempt to take it over. But the moderate and more truly spiritual Christians are gaining a voice. I just hope they can be heard above the Dobsons, Robertsons and Fallwells. Younger leaders seem to be focusing on other issues rather than the polarizing ones like abortion, contraceptives, gays, and independent women.

The radical right's push to control society by placing their personal views into law has done a tragic disservice to Christianity. If they should continue to gain more influence over the laws of this country, they will have created a pathetic and destructive travesty of the world they had hoped to create.

Because of their notoriety, many DUers and other Americans who are not devout Christians often think the radical right Christians speak for all Christians. Sad, but true.

So many people in this country react to Islam as though it is an extremist religion. All I'm saying is that, in this country, there ARE extremist religious leaders who are leading people into an extremist view of Christianity, as there are leaders in other countries who are leading people into extremist views of Islam. It's a reality, and I'm sorry if I've offended anybody. I don't have a religion to defend, so maybe it's easier for me to see it.

The message needs to be honed and sharpened to raise above the clamor and cacophony created by the radical right power brokers.

Well the truth is that Churches aren't structured the way Jesus would have wanted. He was crucified because he stood up the the temples and told the people, don't give your money to temple buy some bread and feed the poor. Don't build elaborate building for God. Which is again what we're doing. Churches should be $500 dollar storage sheds, just enough give attendants a place to sit and give them shelter for the elements. All other money should go to the poor, that's the true movement he was trying to start.

He who is perfect cast the first stone. Love thy neighbor like you live thyself. That's Christianity. But for those who corrupt them I have a Jesus quote for them too:

"Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."

:hi:

So many have been misled, but they do seem to go quite so willingly.

What is a christian, you say? Why, someone who believes in christ as their personal lord and savior. Which means, inconveniently for some here, that even Phelps, by definition, is a christian.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Christian

(ed.: the actual definition says one who "believes in the teachings of Christ". Same result.)

So, yes, all the so-called "bad" christians are, in fact, legitimately lumped together with all the so-called "good christians", by definition, and there's nothing you or any other christian can do about it. I know that makes some people here deeply uncomfortable, but it's the truth- and I'm done buying the whole "no true Scotsman" game some people here seem to be playing; if you believe in christ as your savior, you are a christian- no matter how repugnant the rest of your views are.

Yes, it's a broad brush, but it's broad by definition. I can't change that. Now, can we PLEASE stop with the whole "but they're not real christians" protestations? It's clear as a bell that they, in fact, are.

If you asked most Christians what a Christian is they would say some one who holds Jesus in you heart. Not just believe in him or follow his teaching, but someone who acts on his mandate because your soul is compelled.

But I agree, We cannot honestly know what is in someone's heart, and so we cannot say a person who says they believe is not a person of faith.

No matter what they say, or how much we dislike it, or how bad it makes us look.

Everyone has to answer for what they do, if you don't believe you answer to God, you at least of to answer to you conscious.

braid their hair, wear clothing made of two different kinds of cloth, eat shellfish, have contact of any kind with men during their menstrual periods, etc. However I'm sure this woman and her supporters don't toe that line. They always want to crack the whip on one or two rules (that everybody else is supposed to follow) while they ignore all the rest of them. :eyes:


Same old story, same old song and dance.

and I don't need a husband's permission or their religion's permission to do so. I refuse to become what they've turned into.... even their photos are scary.

is Hell on Earth!

I was raised in this perverted atmosphere. The woman that bore me (I can now scarcely claim her status as my Mother)once told me that she did not drive (a car) because it made her spouse "feel more like a man." She never held a job outside the home except stipends for singing IN CHURCH at weddings. When I got a PT job in HS and purchased clothing with my earnings, she called my pretty black-patent heeled sandals "whore" shoes. She had a fit when I didn't ask if I could commence shaving my adolescent legs, and I was not allowed to wear make-up (remember Cleopatra eyes?).

After the choir group of which she was a member took a trip to Germany without her (her choice), she quit the group because they were "snobs" who only talked about their experiences on said trip.

When I asked if she would watch the kids so I could work a full-time job when my spouse was under-employed, she said she would if I would bring them to her house every day. This would have meant the costs of extra gasoline, since she did not live anywhere close to "on the way to work" as well as getting the kids up and out the door by, say, 4:30 am. so I would arrive to work on time.

She told me that "nobody told me to have kids," and reiterated the fact that I had chosen marriage instead of school, so I could no longer EVER come back home under any circumstances. Well, I might have chosen school over marriage if my dad had not been so deathly ill during my senior year at school. I vividly recall being awakened in the wee hours to transport him to hospital because I was the only other driver in the house. Heaven forbid she call the squad!

The conflicting messages I get have nearly driven me out of my mind. BTW, when she told me that my children were ungrateful snots because they didn't write Thank You notes for presents when there was plenty of gratitudinous hugs and kisses at unwrapping and she didn't want to speak to me again "until somebody died," I asked if that's exactly what she wanted and she said yes. I've been shunned by all members of my family of origin since I told her to "have a nice life."

It is difficult knowing there is no safety net of empathy or compassion from that direction when times are tough, and they are. At the same time, it's been nice not having to deal with her X-tian rules and regulations on how my life should be conducted and my numerous sins against the commandments of MOM.

Your mother sounds like the mother in Carrie!
http://www.morethings.com/fan/carrie-sissy_spacek/piper+laurie-martyr_mom05.jpg

Try not to be around her with any sharp objects.

:cry:

So sorry you had to go through that.
You are better off away from her and hers,
even WITH the financial strain, you KNOW that.

Don't let her manipulate you, and don't mistake
her self-interest for compassion OR her money/time
for love.

It's OBVIOUSLY not worth it.

Living within a family of dysfunctional clingers or a "Go to hell you sinner" bible thumpers. Yet getting a close look at both i have perceived both kinds lacking the knowledge and or understanding of what defines individual and what free thinking actually encompasses. It's just as well because when your with that other kind,the clingers, you find in the pushing them away that getting them far enough away is difficult. Thier is hope that maybe when your away for long enough she will found the need for some things to change with her. If your mom (that you probably slightly disowned awhile ago) figures out she has lost you and gets no more reciprocation she probably will bend or change some the rules she wants to inflict on herself.

We had a religious nut job down the street that beat her daughters and had all kind of weird ideas for them. It ruined those daughters. It was sad and it kind of makes for uncomfortable when those fly-by-night daughters are even in the neighborhood. We cannot even let them come into our house because of their notorious thievery. Our daughter is just starting to realize how much of bad news they really are.

Being a normal good person even it has to be in spite of who our parents are or were is also a good thing. Being a prosperous, vital and successful person would probably be the best lesson you could ever teach your mother in my estimation. Btw, you sound like you are well on the way also but still a little bitter. After some time you may come to realize your tormentor has and has had much more trouble spiritually and otherwise. Regardless of what ever it was or what other people think, her being your mother cannot be changed.

Acts 16 : 14

And Deborah, a married woman of the Old Testament, was a judge and prophetess

Judges 4 : 4

If one does read it, they will find no such restriction.

T'was delicious!!

:shrug:

"...and also for being so beautiful. The children hear their dad praising mom, so they do it too..."

I guess cheating and spousal abuse never happens in their world! :rofl:

Sid

something to think about i.e. their daughters.

edit:typo

The boys can go to Bible school once they can read..

for the girls:

1 basket of laundry + 2 baskets of laundry + clothesline = 3 hours of folding

Sheesh.

It's no wonder Jesus had to come along and set em straight :)

some people but my take is ..who gives a shit what is written down by whomever?

No pun intended. ;) That's just !@#$ looney!

They are all part and parcel of the religious right. Thanks to BushCO they have permeated our entire country: including its judicial, legislative and executive branches, from the highest Federal level down thru the state governments and into the smallest local levels i.e. school boards.


http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Articles/1090.aspx


If you think your head won't explode, there is more at...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

most of which have little relevance to our present day lives, but nevertheless can be appreciated, much in the same way that Homer is.

be dismissed like the funny page.

as being comparable to the funny pages. Of course, I did make it past the sixth grade, so I may be kind of elitist about that sort of thing...

It would probably be culturual in time and place. Many people then and there, both male and female, worked from their homes. There weren't many corporations employeeing hundreds or thousands of people. It was normal to produce things in ones home.

that this woman is a dipshit.

say anything either way about where women should work.

These people are so fucked up it isn't funny. I'd go over and flame them, but it's much better to not even think about them, since it's their site and not one that they would like to see someone like me at.

Frankly, I've seen women like that for a long time, and one of the things which bothers me the most is how deluded they are. One thing I read some years ago was how those born after the 60s and early 70s never had to go through the shit that some of us did to even get Roe v Wade passed, and how far we have come in the past 45 or so years with getting women at least the bare minimum of rights, nevermind equal rights. Most of these people never heard that he ERA was quite successful at the state level, and might have passed if that fucking mental midget Ronnie Raygun wasn't president. And because these women never had to fight for significant changes, they won't know what it would be like to not have any choices at all.

>>>>while helping my sister and I in school<<<< She should have appreciated her years in school, and not fucked around. She would know that the proper pronoun in this line is NOT "I" but "me" in the context of the sentence. And the other one, from the initial post, said she wants to be a freelance writer? OY!! Her grammar is horrible, horrible! She should stop putting her asshole husband before her and get a fucking education!!

The woman who posted this crap is only 22. We should check back with her 10 years and several more children later.

That title must represent the peak of her aspirations :(

But isn't global moderator sort of a leadership position? Meaning, she MIGHT be "the boss of" some men on the list?

Did you all ever see that? She screamed, hollered ad swore non-evangelicals were with devil and out to get her! lol

I went to that website, and it's a band of stepford wives, with a wind-up keys in their backs and all (in the shapes of daggers). How could men put up with these complete psychos? These are the same women who, when their husband finds himself a fascinating, highly-educated, independent, interesting woman at the office, and he decides to get a divorce from his stepford wife, the stepford wife goes whining around town about how evil men are. I've seen it before.

I wouldn't dare tell you what to believe in or not believe in, but I gots to say I have a problem with Atheism. My understanding of that word and belief structure, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, says that God is a creation of man (a point I cannot argue logically, cause they can no more disprove God's existence as I can prove it), but more Importantly that The Individual is the most important.

That's where my real problem lies. I think it is dangerous for humans to hold up their Individual Ego as the all directing power of their lives. Human Being as a species cannot survive alone. A person who is isolated from other people for extended lengths of time go mad at best and lose the will to live at worst. So At most, humans need each other. Also it breeds a sort of arrogance to an understanding of the world to me. You have nothing to pull yourself out of your own desires and the "what's in it for me" mindset.

I think though most people who say they're Atheist are really Universalist. God isn't an Entity out THERE, he's in each person. And every person in part of an interconnected web of Humanity. Not a belief in a Deity as much as a belief in the Greatness of every person and the understanding that that Greatness is magnified or becomes Godly when it's channeled in unison.

That seem a more constructive way of looking at the world, and the view most people I see posting heres, at least in practice.

Especially this whopper:

"You have nothing to pull yourself out of your own desires and the "what's in it for me" mindset."

Why would you assume that atheists don't care about HUMANITY?

And WTF does THIS mean:

"I think though most people who say they're Atheist are really Universalist."

Let me make this CLEAR to you.

An ATHEIST is a PERSON who does NOT WORSHIP a "SUPERNATURAL BEING".

PERIOD.

Do you WORSHIP Zeus? Kalki? Ra?

No?

Great, we just believe in ONE LESS god than you do.

We "believe" in love, life and the pursuit of happiness.

We hold some truths to be self evident.

We DO NOT believe that "Greatness is magnified or becomes Godly when channeled in unison" or whatever.

But DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU FROM TELLING US WHAT WE BELIEVE.

Please.

On Edit:

You seem to be confusing ATHEISTS with HERMITS


We are people, just like YOU, you know.... NOT misanthropes.

I think I said that infact. If you say Atheism is only not believing in a GOD, that's fine. I was under the impression that it was more than that. I thought it was believing in no power greater than yourself. I didn't mean to imply that Atheist can do good things, or care about people. It just seems to me that believing in nothing but yourself puts you at odds with the world that's all. But I don't know what it is like to be Atheist, I've never been one. It just seems that if you don't wanna believe in a Deity, you can believe in people. I guess it would be better to say I don't understand how anyone can honestly believe in NOTHING but himself and be happy, seems contrary to our nature.

But let me restate that this country is still Free last time I checked and anyone can believe anything they want. And if the path you have chosen makes you truly happy, more power to you man. REALLY!

:)

Most atheists have taken a LOT of time to think about
reality, and what it means to them!

For me, atheism is TRUE acceptance.

Peace.

belief structure, Atheism is lack of belief. We don't have a congregation or Sunday school.

I do think that atheism is a nobler belief in this sense: usually religions and magical beliefs of all types are judgmental of others and manipulative.

As far as my personal religious belief, I'd describe it as a cross between Buddhism (I like its universality and we are all one concepts), Catholicism (I like its ancient rituals of gathering together, incense, worshipping God together), and orthodox Chassidic Judaism (I love its logic and philosophy, study, wisdom, and, their explanation that everything is God, good, bad and indifferent.

psych!

:hi:

:P Prepare to get your britches scorched. :D

IN YO FACE!!!!

:hi:

Creamy goodness!

:hi:

Ay caramba!

====

Little Soldiers by Katy-Anne Wilson

The Australian Army Cadets raises up children to one day be soldiers to defend our country. God also raises up children to be soldiers in His army, and His army is more important than the Australian Army. For an army to be strong, it needs strength of numbers as well as skill. Yet, it seems that people are purposely hindering the advancement of God’s army. An awful lot of Christians have jumped on the birth control bandwagon, proclaiming that it is ok because it does not terminate life, it simply prevents it from beginning. But preventing life from beginning is also anti-life. It might not be murdering a life that has already begun, but it is preventing a life that could have begun. Either of these options is not valuing human life at all. As we read the Bible, we see that God places a very high value on human life, so who are we to try to stop it?

The Bible says many things about children and how they are a blessing. It even talks of children in the terms of warfare. "Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate." Psalm 127:3-5. There is so much treasure in these few verses! First of all, it says that children are an heritage from the Lord. It also says that the fruit of the womb is His reward. Why would we want to prevent His rewards by using birth control? It also says that children are like arrows and happy is the man that has his quiver full of them. Why would a person go to war with just one or two or even no arrows? He would want his quiver totally full.

Arrows are weapons of war. Birth control has limited the army of God even more than abortion has. Birth control makes sure that life is not even conceived, therefore when Christians use it they are saying that life isn’t important. They are limiting God’s army. Think of how much more Christians could accomplish in this world if there was a lot of godly children to follow in the footsteps of the older generation! If Christian parents are not raising godly children, then who will? The world certainly isn’t interested in raising godly children. Think of how much more power in God’s army there would be if there were more people in His army. Think of how many more things could be accomplished.

Having children was actually the first commandment that God ever gave, and He has never revoked that commandment, so it is still in place today. Let’s have a look at it. It’s even in the very first chapter of the Bible! "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Genesis 1:27, 28.

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. He repeated this command after the flood also. He has never, ever taken this command back. Are we really doing our duty to fulfill this command by having one or two children and then taking measures to make sure we don’t have any more? No, we are not. We need to learn to trust God to give us the amount of children He wants us to have. People say that they can’t afford any more children, but if God gives you the children, then it will be God who provides for those children. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6. These two verses actually sum up the entire argument. We should trust God in all areas of our lives, children being one of those areas. We should not trust in our own human reasoning, making up excuses such as “we can’t afford any more kids right now”. We need to acknowledge the Lord. It is ok to pray about it and give your concerns to Him, but we need to trust Him that He knows what is best with how many children to give us. There is a promise in these verses. If we trust in Him instead of our own understanding, and acknowledge Him, then He will direct our paths. That means He will do what is best for us.

I don’t believe we should use any method of birth control. Sterilization is not trusting God. Pills of all kinds can cause abortions. Spilling the seed is not right either, God killed Onan for doing it. The Bible tells us not to abstain from our spouses because that is defrauding them. So basically, no kind of birth control is acceptable, and it is all anti-life. Of course there are other methods of birth control too. I disagree with all of them. The whole birth control philosophy is wrong.

Not everyone who doesn’t believe in birth control is going to end up with fifteen children, either. I know of people that don’t believe in birth control that only have two or three children. It is all that God chose to give them. However, we do need to leave the choice up to God. There are some couples that God gives no children to. A lot of people seem to think that people that don’t use birth control will all end up with plenty of children. I might not know much about childbearing, but I do know that a couple does not get pregnant every time they have relations.

The Bible tells us in many places that children are a gift from Him. So, when we use birth control, we are telling God that we do not want His gifts. And we are not populating the earth for Him. Let’s raise up more soldiers for the army of God!



http://s9.invisionfree.com/Eternal_Riches/index.php?

Article Source: http://baptistarticles.com

The poster may be one of their more conservative members.

Moderator or not.

Here are some I'd like to see:

"You were fruitful Good Job! Now be Responsible"

"When I said love your neighbour, I didn't mean just the ones you like."

"Thou shall not kill. Yeah, That pretty much meant ANYONE"

"I said SINLESS! Why are you still throwing STONES!"

I think it would help alot of people out.

move back with her parents after being widowed or divorced. They were advised to get another husband ASAP because grandma and grandpa didn't have the space or money for a new family if they were allowed to move back at all.

It's where they would like to bring us back to, methinks.

the value of women. So have most religions, yet the men interpret the works of religion to allow dominion. Their bad!

rulers like Reagan, & the Bushies to deal with back then!

Oh yeah. It is.

I don't even remember this subject being in the Bible. I find it particularly sad to see that it's a woman saying this.