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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:38 PM
Original message
The Hartford Courant Blows It
Edited on Sun Jul-08-07 12:39 PM by Wayward Episcopalian
Cross-posted from The Wayward Episcopalian: Nathan on New Orleans.

I had initially hoped to avoid giving this atrocious Hartford Courant op-ed further exposure and publicity, but given that the rest of the Katrina blogosphere is exploding about it, I’ll go ahead and give my take, too.

The op-ed in question, “Politics Aside, New Orleans A Lost Cause,” was written by Robert Thorson, a professor of Geology at the University of Connecticut. He claims that Hurricane Katrina was a natural disaster which will happen again, so let’s not rebuild New Orleans.

I just wish that one of the Democratic contenders had been forthright, calling the Katrina tragedy a natural disaster, and recognizing that the displaced people are the most visible group of climate refugees since the Dust Bowl years of the 1930s… The brutal geological reality is that people of every color left New Orleans as climate-related refugees. I believe that the real reason New Orleans remains unfixed - without police and fire protection and with vacant hospitals - is because objective visionaries and smart money sees such rebuilding as a risky, if not wasteful war against nature.


There is so much wrong with this. Where do I even begin?



First of all, Hurricane Katrina was NOT, as Dr. Thorson claims, just a natural disaster. What happened in Biloxi and Gulfport – that was a natural disaster. What happened in New Orleans – that was a natural disaster exponentially exacerbated by a manmade disaster. It was the fault of the Army Corps of Engineers and the federal government. Had the levees been built to specification and maintained properly, had Congress and the President fully funded the Corps’ restoration project, the damage to the city would have been far less in scope. Yes, some levee failures allowed water to revert to its natural state, but others sent the floodwater on unnatural paths it would not have taken had the city never built in the first place. We can rebuild the city differently than it was built before – we can construct the levees in the same style as the Dutch, and hold the Corps accountable this time around. If we do this, Katrina will not repeat herself. We can go even further by fighting climate change, reducing our carbon emissions, and taking carbon back out of the environment, and thus ensure that even Rita will not repeat herself too often. This was NOT just a natural disaster, and the victims are not just “climate refugees.” (Photo: Dr. Robert Thorson, from his website.)

Thorson finishes by writing,
My plan has only one point. That we not spend another dime on U.S. properties below sea level - and use that money instead to help sea-level refugees find safer homes elsewhere.




I wonder, just where does he envision these “safer homes elsewhere”? Remember, it’s not like New Orleans is our only coastal city. Everything from Corpus Christi to New York City could get hit by a hurricane – it’s even happened in New Hampshire before. This entire nation faces natural risks. The mountain west has summer fires and winter blizzards, the west coast has earthquakes (and a major San Francisco or LA earthquake IS the next Katrina), the Midwest gets tornadoes, the northeast has its own blizzards, the South sees hurricanes and heat waves, and the whole damn thing suffers through drought. What's Thorson’s solution, that we all move to Alamogordo? If he thinks we can find safer homes, he lives in a fantasy world. It should also be pointed out that not all of New Orleans is below sea-level. “A recent study by Tulane University notes that 51% of New Orleans is at or above sea level, with the more densely populated areas generally on higher ground.” (Photo: This is St. Andrew Episcopal Church's Chalstrom House, where I lived for three months. It is in New Orleans, and it is above sea level. Photo by my friend Bob Gustafson.)

Thorson is also making judgment calls. He is ultimately saying, "We shouldn't spend a dime on these areas because they're in danger." Yeah, but you know something? You get what you pay for. And preserving history, heritage, humanity, and culture in the face of risk is something I'm willing to pay for. In other words, there’s more at stake here than just science, so how dare he speak with scientific authority on non-scientific judgment matters like THAT. He's being quite shortsighted.

Another part of Thorson’s column compared New Orleans to Alaskan villages threatened by climate change. The Voice of New Orleans does a pretty good job of refuting that claim in a post called, “Excuse Me, but New Orleans is not Newtok, Alaska.” Other Katrina blogs tackling Thorson’s op-ed include another Voice of New Orleanspost, Thanks Katrina, Your Right Hand Thief, Ashley Morris: The Blog (a professor takes on the professor!), Maitri's VatulBlog, The Chicory, and Gentilly Girl.

Pistollette’s postin particular has received a lot of blogosphere attention. She writes,

If the Dutch felt the way you do about low-lying areas they'd have no country.

Funny, you guys never complained when federal engineers spent billions to force the Mississippi River route, and thereby bring goods to all you rich, condescending yankees. Plus, you think gas is expensive now? You couldn't afford it if we didn't keep sucking up the fumes in "cancer alley" for you overconsumptive ungrateful brats.

I live here - we have cops, firemen, and hospitals. True, they are understaffed and could use more help, but they are here! Get your facts straight.

I can't believe you compared this situation to some little Alaskan town with 200 people. MILLIONS live in the Mississippi Delta region. You are talking about asking millions of people/refugees to give up their homeland, people, and culture. America doesn't even ask the Palestinians to do that and we actively support the opposition! This is one of the most ignorant and insensitive things I've heard on this topic in a while. Would you ask Amsterdam, Venice, or even low-lying London to just abandon their cities because they are expensive to maintain?


I would add to Pistollette’s reflections that Washington, DC was also built on fill, and is slowly sinking. I guess Thorson would have us abandon the Capitol, the White House, the Jefferson Monument, the Washington Monument, the Smithsonian, the Vietnam Wall, the FBI headquarters…

Many of these posts are blunter and ruder than they need to be, but their points are well taken. You may reach Dr. Thorson either by commenting on his article at the Courant’s website, or by e-mailing him at profthorson@hotmail.com. If you decide to contact him, please be polite, and perhaps focus on my final point – there is more to this sort of issue than science, and he should take a broader view when making judgment calls about national values.

Cross-posted from The Wayward Episcopalian: Nathan on New Orleans.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Surprise, Surprise
Joe Liebermann's local paper blows it. Biiiig surprise.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. cheap shot
This has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Lieberman.

Oh, and the Hartford Courant isn't his hometown newspaper. That would be the New Haven Register.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Any shot against Lieberman...
...is a good one.;)
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Grow up
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Great comeback!
I bow to you...:eyes:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I agree with BlueDogDem
Edited on Sun Jul-08-07 01:45 PM by cui bono
What if a RW site blamed your favorite senator for something the paper of a town that is not his/her hometown printed?

Would you still think yours was a mature and reasonable response?
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Joe Lieberman is an embarrassment, not only to Dems, but to AMERICA...
...so my answer is YES! He deserves to be bashed EVEY TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH.

BTW, who, on DU, has Lieberman as their "favorite senator?" Point them out so I can redirect them to this site:
http://www.freerepublic.com/
...because they sure as hell don't belong here.:thumbsdown:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You completely missed my point.
I didn't say LIEberman was anyone's fav senator. I was using an analogy that apparently you didn't understand.

And he didn't open his mouth. You bashed him just because some newspaper from anytown, CT, said something that had nothing to do with him.

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. And you completely missed MY point...
Lieberman is a scumbag and a toady. He deserves bashing... every time.:eyes:

Yikes, some people just don't get it...:banghead:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well if that's your response then I doubly agree with BlueDogDem
Grow up.

I hate Lieberman as much as anyone. That has nothing to do with it.

He had nothing to do with anything in this thread until you brought him up.

:eyes:

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Well, you might as go all the way and TRIPLY agree with him!
:rofl:

You're fun to play with. Keep this going - I just love a silly-ass flamewar!:D
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Fuck Joe Lieberman
and even those who defend his sorry ass.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. The HC...
...often backs him, I'm told (although I don't usually read it, I was told about this one article).

Good point about New Haven, though.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Landrieu
The senator who has been most vocal about holding the Army Corps of Engineers accountable for the entire Katrina/MR-GO fiasco has been Mary Landrieu, who is a Lieberman protege. You can bash Liebs for his Iraq policy all you want, but I don't think he's a problem on the NOLA front.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Really?
As Josh noted over at TPM, Senator Joe Lieberman has just taken the very surprising step of revealing to Newsweek via an aide that he will not use his chairmanship on the Homeland Security committee to aggressively probe the government's catastrophic failings in the wake of Hurricane Katrina — in direct contradiction of statements he made during last year's campaign. In other words, Lieberman's basically letting the White House off the hook for its largest domestic policy disaster to date.
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/12/louisiana_pol_slams_lieberman_over_katrina_punt
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I disagree
The two may be allies, but they're not clones, and you can't give her credit for everything he does, nor him credit for everything she does. She's been out there on this issue as a home-state Senator; he's been nowhere as a relevant committee chairman.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. We put a man on the moon, we can build a friggin' levee that will protect NOLA...
Edited on Sun Jul-08-07 12:43 PM by Cooley Hurd
:banghead:

On edit: we'd BETTER get good at building levees:
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. but isn't it fair to ask the question?
how stupid is it to rely on the army corpse of engineers and rebuild walls and levees, ON LAND WE KNOW TO BE SINKING AT AN INCREASING RATE?
Add to that, the periodic floods that used to replenish the delta have been destroyed. Add to that, the warmer temps in the ocean, raising the possibiity that the intensity and frequency of storms, surges and hurr & himacanes will increase.

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That can be solved as well...
The World Financial Center in NYC was built on land that was previously the Hudson River. NOLA is a national treasure. I, for one, have NO QUALMS about tax dollars going to restoring her. Besides, another national treasure, SWAP RAT, is there!;)
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. i do agree that it is a national treasure.
although having been there quite often, I do believe that the french quarter does need a periodic flood to get the smell out after mardi gras. too much urine, bourbon flavored puke and worse does get a bit odorific.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Heh heh
Actually, the Quarter just started a new trash pickup service that includes lots of huge, highly visible garbage cans spread out around the neighborhood, and I've heard they've been highly effective. They won't help the urine smell, but the beer cans get thrown away instead of leaking all over the street.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Since you're opposed to sinking land...
...I assume you advocate abandoning Washington, DC ASAP?

And I'd rather fight the warmer ocean temps than give up on heritage, history, humanity, and culture. Certainly it's fair to ask the question, but I disagree with the geologist's answer.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. um, no, but as a resident of DC
I oppose using federal funds to allow continued building on places that will be flooded, over and over again. in fact, very little of DC is built on a flood plain (as opposed to Old Town Alexandria, which is almost entirely on a flood plain) DC does not flood, the Mall does not flood (I think much of the Mall is in the thousand year flood plain, which is acceptable) I would not support building levees to keep out the Potomac in order to build on what is currently flood plain, no.

in fact, the only time I can recall any serious flooding in DC, (and from some historical research, I confirm this) was in 2006 when there was record rainfall (note, it wasn't a rising flood from the river, it was 18 inches of rain in 24 hours) and that was just flooding in basements. I really don't know where this urban legend that DC was built on fill came from, or that it was a swamp, it simply isn't true. small portions of what is now openspace was built on some dried out land, but that is now a few monuments, parks and softball fields. so we're talking about the land around the tidal basin, the Jefferson memorial being the only thing built there at risk.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Well...
I certainly don't think we should create more fill or start new cities on lousy areas, but where a city already exists like NOLA, there's not much we can do. It costs too much to move a whole city, and it disrupts history, heritage, culture, and humanity. There's also no need to - what's wrong with using technology to protect what we already have?

Thanks for the info on DC, btw.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Thanks...
...for your attention to this issue and your comments, Cooley!
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. All very good points, and I can't blame people for being a bit rudely angry.
It is THEIR HOME and THEIR CULTURE that other people are telling them to just cut their losses and bug out on...which is like abandoning them twice. First, to let their home drown; second, to tell them there's no point to restoring it, so they'd just better pick up and move on.

It's very easy for me to put myself in their place and say "Like hell." It's very easy for me to imagine some kind of super-disastrous Mother of All Lake-Effect Blizzards coming along and burying northeast Ohio, northwestern Pennsylvania and the farthest west areas of New York right up to Buffalo. And then, after having suffered both during and after the storm for months, have to listen to people saying "Oh, give up that 'mistake on the lake' you lived in, it was never habitable anyway...go someplace else."

I'd have something to say to them, and it would probably be expressed no more eloquently than with an upraised middle finger.
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Wayward Episcopalian Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Thanks for a good comment!
Tip of the hat!
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good ...
I was looking for yet another reason why I canceled my subscription to them.
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