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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:21 PM
Original message
"Speak Out Now or Forever, Perhaps, Be Silenced"
Bob Altemeyer, the psychologist whose studies John Dean used in his book, Conservatives Without Conscience, has a message for all. In his book that he wrote at Dean's encouragement and that he has placed online for free, he pleads with us to act for change. For those of you who may have missed my first post about this insightful book, I'm telling you that the results of this man's studies of Right-wing Authoritarians (RWAs) are absolutely chilling, to say the least. It is incredible that we have found ourselves in this position as a nation and as a people.

Having worked in counseling for many years, dealing with extremely difficult personality types, I have to say that understanding the basics of these personality types is essential to learning how to confront and or even begin to deal with the problem. I also know from experience that these types as described in Altemeyer's and Dean's books are of the most difficult persons to converse with; they are challenging beyond belief. As Altemeyer himself writes, "...authoritarians can stupify you with the inconsistency of their ideas." In fact, Altemeyer holds little hope of their ability to change, or of our ability to change their thinking, through direct confrontation.

My concern that I feel Altemeyer* and even Dean fails to mention -- yet -- is that now that we have these Double-High RWAs controlling all aspects of our government -- they are not likely to relinquish their attained power easily, nor through traditional "politics as usual" methods. With devious methods, they have maneuvered themselves into power. Through devious measures, they will likely try to stay. How overt they continue to become with this is unknown -- they've been pretty blatant so far, with increasing blatancy more recently, and that is of grave concern to me. I fear the traditional methods of "get out the vote" will matter little, given the overwhelming evidence of election fraud, which, if one learns about RWAs, none of that should surprise anyone by now.

* (I do wonder how Altemeyer perceives the election fraud issue. Based on this online book, it would appear that he would not be surprised that these RWAs would go to such extremes. Perhaps he has never been exposed to the election fraud information. I think I'll join his discussion over there and ask about that in relation to these RWAs who continue on with nary a concern about the rule of law nor what their base really seems to think.)


Here is some of the advice he gives:

Chapter 7

What’s To Be Done?

The Short Run Imperative: Speak Out Now or Forever, Perhaps, Be Silenced

If they work, most of these suggestions will only produce changes in high
RWAs in the long run. But we may not have a long run. We have to contain
authoritarianism now lest it destroy us. We’ve got to act immediately.
... Here’s how I put it in 1996 at the end of what I intended to be my last
book on the subject:

“I am now writing the last page in my last book about authoritarianism. So, for
the last time, I do not think a fascist dictatorship lies just over our horizon. But I do
not think we are well protected against one. And I think our recent history shows the
threat is growing...We cannot secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves, and our
posterity, if we sit with our oars out of the water. If we drift mindlessly, circumstances
can sweep us to disaster. Our societies presently produce millions of highly
authoritarian personalities as a matter of course, enough to stage the Nuremberg
Rallies over and over and over again. Turning a blind eye to this could someday point
guns at all our heads, and the fingers on the triggers will belong to right-wing
authoritarians. We ignore this at our peril.”


Eleven years later, as I am now definitely writing the last pages in my last book
on the subject, I believe circumstances such as “9/11" have nearly swept us to disaster,
the authoritarian threat has grown unabated, and almost all the protections I saw in
1996, such as a “free and vigilant press,” are being eroded or have already been
destroyed. The biggest problem we have now, in my view, is authoritarianism. ...

So what’s to be done right now? The social dominators and high RWAs
presently marshaling their forces for the next election in your county, state and
country, are perfectly entitled to do what they’re doing. They have the right to
organize, they have the right to proselytize, they have the right to select and work for
candidates they like, they have the right to vote, they have the right to make sure folks
who agree with them also vote. ...

If the people who are not social dominators and right-wing authoritarians want
to have those same rights in the future, they, you, had better do those same things too,
now. You do have the right to remain silent, but you’ll do so at everyone’s peril. You
can’t sit these elections out and say “Politics is dirty; I’ll not be part of it,” or
“Nothing can change the way things are done now.”The social dominators want you
to be disgusted with politics, they want you to feel hopeless, they want you out of their
way. They want democracy to fail, they want your freedoms stricken, they want
equality destroyed as a value, they want to control everything and everybody, they
want it all. And they have an army of authoritarian followers marching with the
militancy of “that old-time religion” on a crusade that will make it happen, if you let
them.

... Americans have, for the most part, been standing on the sidewalk quietly
staring at this authoritarian parade as it marches on, becoming more and more dismayed.
Polls confirm that the great majority of Americans feel the country has been going
in the wrong direction. ... You can watch the authoritarians tear democracy apart,
bit by bit, bite by bite. Or you can exercise your rights too, while you still have
them, and get just as concerned, active, and giving to protect yourself and your country.
If you, and other liberals, other moderates, other conservatives with conscience do,
then everything can turn out all right. But we have to get going. If you are the
only person you know who grasps what’s happening, then you’ve got to take leadership,
help inform, and organize others. One person can do so much; you’ve no idea! And two
can do so much more. But time is running out, fast, and nearly everything is at stake.
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/chapter7.pdf


His book and comments and a link to his online discussions can be found here:
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey /
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nail meet Hammer
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. k r
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R nt
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the links. This is such a serious problem and

we must confront it.

:kick: and R
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. .
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you for the link.
A very important subject.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. .
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. k&r. . . . .n/t
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
10.  "Will RWA rule the world?" Dean's and Altemeyer's responses
From an online discussion he and Altemeyer had over a dKos last spring:

Will RWA rule the world? (23+ / 0-)

Interesting question. Personally I am hopeful that reason base technology like the Internet will help keep the RWAs and SDOs in their place. To understand that they are out there, and how they think, helps to deal with them.

J. Dean


Well, (31+ / 0-)

it is our profound hope (I presume to speak for John here) that the historical and psychological insights that one can acquire from these books will help us control the authoritarianism within our society better than we have before. I'm sure that's the biggest reason we wrote the books.

But these findings have to become better known. John has a big audience, and he is doing wonders. But I suspect most of his readers, and darn near all of mine, are pretty unauthoritarian, and while they're getting stroked all over because authoritarians look so bad in these analyses and unauthoritarians look so good, the knowledge needs to be shared with a far larger audience My book has probably changed three votes for 2008 so far.

But there is some comfort in the Pew Research poll that was released yesterday. The country is moving away from authoritarian values. The percent of Americans who think the government has a responsibility for helping people who can't help themselves has risen from 57% in 2002 to 69% now. Belief that school boards should have the right to fire homosexual teachers has dropped from 39% to 28%. Endorsement of a strong, proactive military posture has gone from 62% to 49%. Even belief in "old-fashioned values about family and marriages" has dropped from 84% to 76%.

These are all positive signs. Yes, people get all worked up about Fox News. But how many folks actually watch it? The country is becoming less right-wing authoritarian, and I give the authoritarians most of the credit for bringing this about. It's like my finding that one of the biggest reasons people are more accepting of homosexuals today is that they have been turned off by the anti-homosexual people. Be not of faint heart. There's been a sea change.

by bob altemeyer on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 02:05:44 PM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/24/1469/68171



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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Sometimes I wish I had gone into sociology, and had access to the resources and knowledge base
to create such experiments.

The amazing thing, and I am only through the first couple chapters, is that just reading, watching, being a Jew (which tends to make one quite unauthoritarian, but by the large and saddening number of Jews who assist the Kinder and gentler Nazis, the Busheviks, clearly being Jewish is not a foolproof method of avoiding worshipping a Hitler-type like Bush), and pursuing my own informal research on the topic I have come to the same conclusions as the good doctor.

I saw this virulent new strain of totlitarianism beginning in the Reagan 80s, but could not recognize it for what it was...would not recognize it even if I could the Bushler War on the American People and the Old American Republic, like Hitler's Kampf, too, had to be seen to be really believed, at which time it was too late.

I hope the comments by Dean and Altmeyer about positive change being in the wind are true, but I think the battle between Unauthoritarians and the Totalitarian Darkness is going down to the wire.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. And that's why I fear for my children's generation and beyond.
Because I, too, am uncertain, given the events of the last 7 years, whether we will be able to stop this coup.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. I was raised by one of these types...
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 05:26 PM by TwoSparkles
...and let me tell you---they aren't even speaking the same language as
people who are humane.

If they are in power, there is no way to "converse" with them, as this article
suggests. They can only be bounced out on their asses.

These people are psychopaths, narcissists and they get a high from hurting people
and controlling them. Does anyone here actually think that it's a coincidence that
so many high-ranking Republicans have been exposed as pedophiles? The list is a mile
long. It doesn't surprise me. These people hunger for any situation that allows them
to power up on the weak and exploit them until they are traumatized into silence. This
process feeds some kind of sick supply that they need.

I grew up in a household headed by a person like this. Their minds are not like
ours. You are either destroyed by them or you simply escape and spend the rest of
your life trying to unravel the damage. Empathy is impossible for these people.
Those around them are viewed as objects. The only people that matter to them, are those
who serve a purpose (furthering their agenda, feeding their denial, helping them rationalize their crimes).
However, these people are even objects to them. Everyone else is a potential exploit
or someone they detest.

Their facial expressions are all the same too. It's really odd. They have so much
underlying, white-hot rage that drives everything they do--and it shows up in their
clenched jaws and how they bite down on their tongue (Bush does this a lot). These people never
stop moving. They're like sharks. If they slow down, they die--because their
conscience catches up with them. Growing up in my house, we never sat down or
rested. There were always seven or eight tvs blaring.

I could write a book. These people incurable and they are parasites. The model
for their personality is best exemplified by the aliens in the Tom Cruise "War
of the Worlds".

Anyone who has known, worked with or lived with a psychopath--knows exactly what
I'm talking about.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's not an article, it's a book. And the author confirms what you say...
that there is little hope in conversing with them to change them. He does, however, have other suggestions, none of which will offer a quick fix, sadly.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks for clarifying...
...I'll have to read the book.

I can't imagine any change happening--especially to the P's with so much power. They
have no incentive to change.

They run the candy store. There's nothing in it for them to have a personal epiphany.
Most of these people are beyond middle age, and I view change as impossible. Their
entrenched in their pathology--and their denial seems impenetrable.

As you know...people don't give up their denial easily because it's a protective
mechanism. Victims take a long time to give up denial. These people have denial
related to their victim-status, but they also have denial related to their perpetrator
status.

My therapist has told me that he counsels these types and it often takes two years
just to get these people to see that possibly something is abnormal about them. When
there is videotape evidence or multiple witnesses to their crimes---they still remain
inside a fortress of denial for years.

It exhausts me to ponder that these people are in charge of our country.

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. It is downright scary that these people are in charge of our country
Getting them out of our government and positions of power is going to be a long, arduous task, especially since we can no longer have any faith in the voting system.

They learned their lessons from Watergate and Iran-contra, so they're even better prepared this time around. They have been systematically plugging up every hole that was available back then for oversight -- SCOTUS, DOJ, etc.

Nevertheless, I perceive it important that more people understand what makes these people tick, and this link to Altemeyer's most recent online book based on his years of research is a damned good start. We have to understand them first before we can figure out how to combat the problem we are faced with. We need to label them -- and much like Michael Moore did today, at least start publicly calling them out on their bullshit. No more politics as usual -- that is hurting us -- that polite, naive attempt to reason with them gives them the upper hand in most cases. Shit, just call them what they are -- kinda' like the 'Emperor with No Clothes' approach.

This should be required reading for all politicians. Maybe I'll start by sending Reid and Pelosi a copy.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. k&r
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Very important thread.
Thank you for posting this.

Nominated.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bush's Lasting Neocon Legacy - The Supreme Court
The tax cuts can be repealed, but SCOTUS is set, locked, and dominated by strictly conservative ideologues.

In addition, Justice Stevens is 87 and Justice Ginsberg is 74. The next president (and conceivably Bush** himself) could get to replace one or both of these Justices.


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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R.nt
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. GREAT Post! I just watched the movie Zeitgeist, have you seen it?
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 08:57 PM by BeHereNow
It is a must watch companion for this thread people.
Fact is, those who seek to destroy the rest of us are
an extremely SMALL percentage of the world population-
however, they are ruthless and devious beyond belief.

Our ONLY salvations lies in exposing them globally
and acting as the PEOPLE of the world to undo their
heinous agenda.

Sadly, I don't know if that will happen in time.

K&R
BHN
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for this great post.
Would you consider cross posting in the non-fiction books forum?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=209

k&r
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yes, thanks you, that's a good idea.
I'll do that now.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. Imagine John Bolton ... thousands of him. "Kiss up, kick down."



:scared:

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. We've just seen an excellent example of a RWA follower in Taylor
From Hissyspit's post recapping Taylor's response here:


You Took An Oath To Uphold The Constitution, "Not To Uphold The President"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/11/prosecutors.tayl...

- snip -

Loyal to Bush even outside the White House, Taylor said she was trying not to answer questions that might violate the president's claim of executive privilege. At one point she told the committee that as a commissioned officer, "I took an oath and I take that oath to the president very seriously."

Seeing a chance to weaken Taylor's observance of Bush's executive privilege claim, Leahy corrected her: She took an oath to uphold the Constitution, he said.

"Your oath is not to uphold the president," Leahy lectured her.

MORE



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1304977
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. morning kick
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. A kick and a paradoxical fact. John Gittinger was a CIA operative
and deeply involved in many of the criminal programs referenced in the family jewels (which more than a few of us have been aware of for decades) Gittinger developed the Personality Assessment System/PAS.

"The Gittinger Assessment System" from "The Search for the Manchurian Candidate" by John Marks
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/marks10.htm

1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Testimony of Philip Goldman and John Gittinger (fwiw, MK was a prefix used to designate operations run by the Technical Service Division)
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/Hearing06.htm


RWA's, loyal Bushies, psychological operations and how to control behavior by destroying and replacing belief systems pragmatically-aka mind control, brain washing etc. all owe so much to the work of Gittinger and the other experts of the CIA's Technical Service Division.\

And yes, Emit, it IS time to speak the truth on all these subjects rather than be silenced by the programmed.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
29. Mind control kick
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