Michael Moore just made the best point about waiting time in Canada vs US

He said of course the waiting time is shorter in the US, 43 million people are not even in line here because they don't have insurance.

As Colbert would say---"He's got balls"

There are MORE uninsured Americans than the total population of Canada. 32 million in Canada, 43 million uninsured Americans.

and more people will think about that next time someone talks about the wait times in Canada.

yes if you need an emergency cardiac catheterization, you'll get it. But then, how the fuck do you pay for it?!

:banghead:

News organizations shouldn't hire biased experts who will say whatever their sponsors want. Unfortunately we don't live in a sane world, and Gupta will probably get a raise and a high-priced "escort" sent to his hotel room.

I've waited three months to see a specialist and the spouse of a family friend waits six months at a time just to see his cardiologist. And if you have a pre-existing condition, your butt is waiting at least a year until the insurance covers treatment. I hate it when people pretend that Americans never wait for healthcare.

That doctor on CNN is a tool.

Gupta showed what a good little shill he is.

... and are now standing in OUR line!

is that the Greek chorus of immigrant hatred that you are repeating? It's true that immigrants may go to county hospitals who treat everyone if they are ill, but they are hardly standing in line in every hospital and clinic in the USA if they don't have insurance or some sort of health card.

the poster you are questioning is Canadian, and commenting that Americans crossing into Canada for treatment helps to cause waits for Canadians.

I suppose it could be argued that we share a border area with Greenland, but I think they have their own health care system (and if it's based on Denmark's, which used to govern them, it may be on par with or even better than Canada's!).

... in order to get treatment, as shown in Moore's film.

I wasn't intending to "immigrant-bash" (at least, not the variant that people in the States tell me is in vogue there). But here are some stats which suggest that the Michigan woman interviewed wasn't alone. (Seriously -- as a Canadian taxpayer, I don't begrudge desperate Americans who are sick and frightened -- I was being tongue-in-cheek with my comment. But as Moore pointed out, Canadians do grumble, and I would be dishonest if I said that nobody mentioned the fraud aspect in casual conversation ... the country whose name surfaces most often is the USA.)


I recall that in Ontario, they reissued health cards twice within a decade or so, ostensibly because of concerns about this kind of thing.



"In 1987, the provincial auditor criticized the health ministry for dispensing more than 25 million active OHIP numbers in a province with only 9 million residents. In spring 1990, the Liberal government issued personal red-and-white plastic health cards as a fraud-prevention measure. The program cost $40 million, and was expected to save $150 million over 10 years by limiting unauthorized use of health cards.

But once again, more cards were issued than there were Ontario residents. The control mechanisms that were supposed to accompany re-registration were abandoned in favour of speedy completion of the project. Once that happened, anyone who could supply an old OHIP number was issued a new one. The 1992 auditor's report noted that, despite all the expense and effort, the number of health cards in circulation still exceeded the Ontario population by more than 300 000.

By then, the health care system had the additional problem of relying on a card bearing only a name and number. When people present the health cards to a doctor or hospital, no corroborating identification is required.

The fraud problem was particularly acute in cities close to the US, where 37 million people have no health insurance. According to Ontario doctors who work in these cities, many former residents who moved to the US kept a mailing address in Canada in order to obtain a health card. Some Americans who own cottages in Ontario form another group of abusers: because they have an Ontario address, they can obtain a health card. Other cases involve out-of-country visitors borrowing valid OHIP cards from friends and family members for medical treatment in Canadian emergency wards."

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/eppp-archive/100/201/300/cdn_medical_association/cmaj/vol-154/1412.htm

crossing into Canada standing in your lines. It's just that all the accusations thrown at immigrants gets out of line at times. Them using our health care system is one of the accusations thrown at them with little to back up the claims.

... were simultaneously dumping on people from other countries, for "sponging" off American schools, government services, etc.!

As a left-leaning Canadian, I would like to think that Americans (like the very pleasant woman in Moore's movie) who come up here and use the system are uniformly liberal, progressive, and entirely deserving of all the help we can offer them -- and would never dream of uttering an intolerant word about another human being in need. But people tell me I am being naive!

Its not just the uninsured that don't go to the doctors. The underinsured as well are reluctant to go seek treatment as they can be just as wiped out by a severe medical condition. Even those with good medical insurance face possible debts as a result of treatment and may be reluctant to seek treatment.

The costs are a barrier that the medical industry place before the people. You have to consider the financial liability of even seeking treatment before you actually go. This barrier stops more people than just the uninsured.